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In my scenario, the worst case seenario that everyone is hitting me with, is being in a team against (scaled) + 1s getting xp relative to that.
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See above, you dont seem to understand the value of being able to PL 7 SEVEN people at the same time.
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And what knowledge of 50s (or over 38s in a lot of cases) being able to PL 7 people at the same time would do to the actions of lowbies.
Look at what used to happen with no herding caps and things like Fire tanks, it was abused to high heavens, the exact same thing would happen here, people would immediately abuse it.
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We're going round in circlesa and I keep dropping the thread and someone one makes points that prompt me to reply.
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Well, I for one am going to take that to heart and shut up. I am quite happy that you do not realise the implications of your suggestion, despite the fact that a number of people have pointed them out very clearly. I do not intend to progress this further unless you have an actual argument that answers the points made in the last couple of posts.
Specifically:
* The volume of PLing this facilitates.
* The effect on low-level player behaviour.
* The evidence from other games and this one that this would be abused.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Team of Tank + Blaster both level 50
Currently can PL 2 people.
Proposed system can PL 6 people.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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The level 1 guy finished the session at about level 8 I think.
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Now imagine that happening x7, a good half hours work.
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This is where my head needs rewiring cause those 7 would only get the same xp that they would get if they were operating a +1 mission on their own level.
The scenario i was describing was +5. And the bonuses were higher than if I completed an own level mission too.
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In my scenario, the worst case seenario that everyone is hitting me with, is being in a team against (scaled) + 1s getting xp relative to that.
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See above, you dont seem to understand the value of being able to PL 7 SEVEN people at the same time.
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Ok. I freely admnit to having a blindspot here.
I'm saying they wont be PLed at all because they will be recieving the same level of xp they would if under current conditions they were running their own level missions.
therefore, in my mind, apart from the possibility that one or two 50s can take a map quicker than the low level could in a team his own level, there would be little or no xp advantage to being sked.
Therefore, I dont think that sking for PLings sake would be anywhere near as it is now for instance. And that the one 50 7 low level scenario would hardly ever occur, cause its too much work for too little reward.
However, everyone and their dog is saying I'm missing the point.
I can only say on this issue, I really am missin it, We all got blindspots. I guess this is one of mine.
So I concede the point totally.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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This is where my head needs rewiring cause those 7 would only get the same xp that they would get if they were operating a +1 mission on their own level.
[/ QUOTE ]They'll kill far more mobs in far less time.
I'll try one more time.
Level 50 tank, level 50 mission, set to invulnerable. Mobs are 53/54
7 x level 1. Auto SK'd to one below mission level, level 49. They CANNOT be SK'd up to -1 mob level, as character levels cannot go that high.
They are getting XP for +4/+5 mobs. PL paradise.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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This is where my head needs rewiring cause those 7 would only get the same xp that they would get if they were operating a +1 mission on their own level.
[/ QUOTE ]They'll kill far more mobs in far less time.
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Yup!
Lets say the PL team is a tanker and a blaster + six assorted lowbies.
Tanker herds up mob, using his none lowbie powers to survive.
Blaster wipes them out using his none lowbie AoE powers to do so.
Mob is gone quicker than if a team of eight lowbies tried to fight using their limited power selection.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
I think I woke up in Groundhog day today!
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I think I woke up in Groundhog day today!
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I wouldn't rob a bank until you are sure though.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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I'll try one more time.
Level 50 tank, level 50 mission, set to invulnerable. Mobs are 53/54
7 x level 1. Auto SK'd to one below mission level, level 49. They CANNOT be SK'd up to -1 mob level, as character levels cannot go that high.
They are getting XP for +4/+5 mobs. PL paradise.
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Is this what all this is about????
I thought I clearly covered this quite awhile back.
Permit me to try one more time. In the alternate worlds where the devs launch my proposed system, the xp would be capped.
The way xp is distributed would be altered for the new system. If my level ten is sked by a 50 against a level 53 he would recieve the same xp as if he were faceing a +1 in a normal unsked mission.
The maximum xp an sked player could get would be relative to a +1.
So imagine he were in a mission of his own fighting plus ones and he recieved 50 xp for "defeating" a +1 minion. He's then invited to a level 50 mission againsts 50 and 53s.
He beats a 50 minion. He recieves.. 50,xp. He beats a 53 minion. He recieves .. 50 xp.
This is because, to prevent that kind of abuse and to keep the sk in the spirit in which is was intented (friends teaming across the levels)the game would be set to only allow the same xp as plus one.
So, it woulkd be impossible to get the xp for +4 or +5 therefore it would NOT be Plers paradise.
And as for oner 50 dealing with a map of 8 spawn, using 7 sked level 10s or 20s, you have to be really really good to do that and not have an untold number of deaths to the lower level (training io) players. Most people are nowhere near that standard.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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I'll try one more time.
Level 50 tank, level 50 mission, set to invulnerable. Mobs are 53/54
7 x level 1. Auto SK'd to one below mission level, level 49. They CANNOT be SK'd up to -1 mob level, as character levels cannot go that high.
They are getting XP for +4/+5 mobs. PL paradise.
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/agreed
I can't see any benefit (unless its to those that want to PL) of being able to SK multiple toons. The system thats in place now works, sure it pops up with a couple of annoyances but what system doesn't?
Someone discussed this idea ina team I was in last week and I scoffed...when asked why I replied with an answer pretty close to FFM's to which they replied "ah..yea".
so once again I scoff
/scoff
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
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The way xp is distributed would be altered for the new system. If my level ten is sked by a 50 against a level 53 he would recieve the same xp as if he were faceing a +1 in a normal unsked mission.
The maximum xp an sked player could get would be relative to a +1.
So imagine he were in a mission of his own fighting plus ones and he recieved 50 xp for "defeating" a +1 minion. He's then invited to a level 50 mission againsts 50 and 53s.
He beats a 50 minion. He recieves.. 50,xp. He beats a 53 minion. He recieves .. 50 xp.
This is because, to prevent that kind of abuse and to keep the sk in the spirit in which is was intented (friends teaming across the levels)the game would be set to only allow the same xp as plus one.
So, it woulkd be impossible to get the xp for +4 or +5 therefore it would NOT be Plers paradise.
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You have missed the point again, under your system getting 50 xp is just great because you are getting it on 3,4,5,6,7 toons and at a fast rate.
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And as for oner 50 dealing with a map of 8 spawn, using 7 sked level 10s or 20s, you have to be really really good to do that and not have an untold number of deaths to the lower level (training io) players. Most people are nowhere near that standard.
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You underestimate people, and if its too much for 1 then get a mate or 2 mates if you really aint no good at playing.
That still leaves 5+ people getting PL'd far faster than you could do it now 1 at a time.
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I'll try one more time.
Level 50 tank, level 50 mission, set to invulnerable. Mobs are 53/54
7 x level 1. Auto SK'd to one below mission level, level 49. They CANNOT be SK'd up to -1 mob level, as character levels cannot go that high.
They are getting XP for +4/+5 mobs. PL paradise.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this what all this is about????
I thought I clearly covered this quite awhile back.
Permit me to try one more time. In the alternate worlds where the devs launch my proposed system, the xp would be capped.
The way xp is distributed would be altered for the new system. If my level ten is sked by a 50 against a level 53 he would recieve the same xp as if he were faceing a +1 in a normal unsked mission.
The maximum xp an sked player could get would be relative to a +1.
So imagine he were in a mission of his own fighting plus ones and he recieved 50 xp for "defeating" a +1 minion. He's then invited to a level 50 mission againsts 50 and 53s.
He beats a 50 minion. He recieves.. 50,xp. He beats a 53 minion. He recieves .. 50 xp.
This is because, to prevent that kind of abuse and to keep the sk in the spirit in which is was intented (friends teaming across the levels)the game would be set to only allow the same xp as plus one.
So, it woulkd be impossible to get the xp for +4 or +5 therefore it would NOT be Plers paradise.
And as for oner 50 dealing with a map of 8 spawn, using 7 sked level 10s or 20s, you have to be really really good to do that and not have an untold number of deaths to the lower level (training io) players. Most people are nowhere near that standard.
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Thus killing PL'ing altogether? And also (unless its with friends but even then...) making SK'ing pointless, why SK against foes which will be more difficult for the same xp? I'd rather go back to my low council and family mishes than do that!
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
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The way xp is distributed would be altered for the new system. If my level ten is sked by a 50 against a level 53 he would recieve the same xp as if he were faceing a +1 in a normal unsked mission.
The maximum xp an sked player could get would be relative to a +1.
So imagine he were in a mission of his own fighting plus ones and he recieved 50 xp for "defeating" a +1 minion. He's then invited to a level 50 mission againsts 50 and 53s.
He beats a 50 minion. He recieves.. 50,xp. He beats a 53 minion. He recieves .. 50 xp.
This is because, to prevent that kind of abuse and to keep the sk in the spirit in which is was intented (friends teaming across the levels)the game would be set to only allow the same xp as plus one.
So, it woulkd be impossible to get the xp for +4 or +5 therefore it would NOT be Plers paradise.
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You have missed the point again, under your system getting 50 xp is just great because you are getting it on 3,4,5,6,7 toons and at a fast rate.
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People in general seem oblivious to this. The amount of times on PuGs we've been safely but slowly grinding through reds and purples. People never seem to grasp the idea that its faster to fly through whites, yellows and oranges and the XP rate is better, especially if you're AOE orientated.
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People in general seem oblivious to this. The amount of times on PuGs we've been safely but slowly grinding through reds and purples. People never seem to grasp the idea that its faster to fly through whites, yellows and oranges and the XP rate is better, especially if you're AOE orientated.
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Yea iv never understood why people want to turn every mission into an epic if all they want is fast xp either.
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People in general seem oblivious to this. The amount of times on PuGs we've been safely but slowly grinding through reds and purples. People never seem to grasp the idea that its faster to fly through whites, yellows and oranges and the XP rate is better, especially if you're AOE orientated.
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Yea iv never understood why people want to turn every mission into an epic if all they want is fast xp either.
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Depends on the team set up.
Sometimes you get a team that flies through purps and reds like they were grey con.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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People in general seem oblivious to this. The amount of times on PuGs we've been safely but slowly grinding through reds and purples. People never seem to grasp the idea that its faster to fly through whites, yellows and oranges and the XP rate is better, especially if you're AOE orientated.
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Yea iv never understood why people want to turn every mission into an epic if all they want is fast xp either.
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There's epic and there's boring slog-fest.
The worst offenders seem to be in the teens / 20s where you might survive ok but low team damage means it takes AAAAGES to kill everything.
Once you hit the 30s I'm fine with turning the difficultly up to 11, you've got the tools to make it interesting (and hopefully a few ADD pets triggering additional groups to make it extra-interesting).
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You have missed the point again, under your system getting 50 xp is just great because you are getting it on 3,4,5,6,7 toons and at a fast rate.
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People in general seem oblivious to this. The amount of times on PuGs we've been safely but slowly grinding through reds and purples. People never seem to grasp the idea that its faster to fly through whites, yellows and oranges and the XP rate is better, especially if you're AOE orientated.
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I agree, thats the point I was trying and failing to make earlier 
if downtime is reduced further by having a large high level farming map that can be reset quickly then (especially) early levels are going to melt away.
Kneeling girls! Statues driving cars! What's going on? Ten years ago a man was arrested in the area for driving statues around in a car. Was it him?
@Ted Maul - The Echelon
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Depends on the team set up.
Sometimes you get a team that flies through purps and reds like they were grey con.
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In which case you aint turned the mission into an epic.
Im talking about teams that insist on slogging their way through mobs they cant kill quickly but refuse to see the folly of it.
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And as for oner 50 dealing with a map of 8 spawn, using 7 sked level 10s or 20s, you have to be really really good to do that and not have an untold number of deaths to the lower level (training io) players. Most people are nowhere near that standard.
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All the low level characters have to do is stay out of the way. Frosty Robot can solo an 8 man invincible spawn without even trying, and many other level 50 builds can too.
I really should do something about this signature.
I do dislike multiple quote posts, so I apologise in advance.
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What really has to be considered here is the attitude of the boards themselves.
...
So it's very difficult to really get a clear proportionate response here.
...
Then why dont you go through the posters that have spoken to me in a civilised manner and post my responses there? You know full well I was being flamed and you also know I dont like being flamed or the people that do it.
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I do think your posts get treated more aggressively than the average, but I also think your posting style can be most aggressive at times. Prove yourself the better debater, and indeed person, by not rising to it. Apply your superior communication skills - this is not sarcasm on my part, in your job I know you must possess these qualities otherwise you would be unemployed.
mereman:
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Why do I get the feeling that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong?
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Be fair Mereman - that's a natural human condition that takes a great deal of self-knowledge, wisdom and willpower to overcome. I do not see it happening often in this thread for instance.
back to Lionsbane:
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Ironically it doesnt match it at all because the primary reason for SKing (aside from teaming with friends) is power levelling.
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I must disagree on this point - I sk primarily to play with RL friends and friends I have made through the game and allow others to do the same. Secondarily I sk or arrange sks when I cannot join or form a team of the appropriate level due to either playing at a slow time or at a busy time with lots of full teams - making do as it were. Certainly my RL friends and a majority of CoH friends sk for similar reasons.
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the game will only grant me aprox 3,000 xp because it will treat the 53 as if they were 16s for xp purposes.
So how can you power level on that basis? Am i missing something?
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I use this quote to refer to the argument that xp earned would be capped - the problem is that though the amounts of xp would be the same, the rate at which two high level toons could accrue it would dramatically accelerate the xp earning of 6 much lower level characters over time.
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And as for oner 50 dealing with a map of 8 spawn, using 7 sked level 10s or 20s, you have to be really really good to do that and not have an untold number of deaths to the lower level (training io) players. Most people are nowhere near that standard.
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All the low level characters have to do is stay out of the way. Frosty Robot can solo an 8 man invincible spawn without even trying, and many other level 50 builds can too.
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Aye, all the lowbies have to do is stand there and look pretty (unless you wanted one to get killed for some Fallout & Vengy abuse). My Fire/Rad could steam through 8 man spawns too fairly handly, he's been soloing hazard zone spawns since about level 10 (and he's not even 50 yet, in his case on Defiant it'd make sense for him to do this whenever possible since its hard to get a regular PuG on Defiant sometimes, there's lots more lowbies generally on than 40 somethings).
And if you're applying the rule that the XP gained by the sidekicks will always be like beating +1s you can just run it on the second diff, it'll just make things quicker to run through for the 50, no need for Invincible (2nd or 4th diff is generally better since you'll be AOE orientated anyway)
Is this Thread still going on? Wow. LB is passionate about this.
Contact Information!
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Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
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Is this Thread still going on? Wow. LB is passionate about this.
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Subtle.
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Ok. Last night 2 very interesting things happened. I was sked into a 8 team. I played off (after sk) against + 5s.
Now at level 25 myself. what real value did I add to the team?
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And what value do you think 7 lowbies sk'd to a 50 bring to a team?
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The level 1 guy finished the session at about level 8 I think.
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Now imagine that happening x7, a good half hours work.
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Now, both he and I exploited a loophole in the gaming system. The team didnt benefit from us. We benefitted from it.
And we';re both pleased about it but- should that opportunity be open to us? Isnt that kind of thing (and it goes on, understandably, all the time) against the spirit of the game?
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It dont matter if its in the spirit of the game, thats not the point, under your proposed plan it would be worse because being able to do it for 7 people out weighs the slight loss of xp.
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In my scenario, the worst case seenario that everyone is hitting me with, is being in a team against (scaled) + 1s getting xp relative to that.
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See above, you dont seem to understand the value of being able to PL 7 SEVEN people at the same time.