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It's a weekend thread, started by our very own resident Troll
Pinch of Salt becomes a glass of salt
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I asked the ones who can only go to the lowest denominator to stay off my thread. Please oblige.
And I'm not a resident anything pal. I dont want to be associated with people who find it funny to just constantly carp others.
So count me out of residency. My friends on these boards all happen to have two things in common: They post intelligently and I havent heard them instigate a single flame, or make any kind of cheap comment like you just made.
I aint resident here I assure you.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Your sarcastic tone isnt appreciated and makes you look pretty pathetic.
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Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and I revel in it.
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To answer your point it took me all of three seconds to suggest they cap the xp relative to their level, like now. How many lowbies in the team are irrelevant from that point of view.
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If your system was implemented, people would still be able to power-level. They'd gain EXP relevant to their natural level. A +3 is a +3 regardless = EXP galore.
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And you really think a full team of lowbies with only one or two 50s in there are gonna stand up for very long in a 50s mission?
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One Granite Tanker. One Kineticist. Pretty doable.
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Firstly, not everyone thinks like you apparently do and secondly,
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Firstly, don't talk like you know me.
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it would have to be balanced high and low just to give the low levels a decent chance of survival. Not everyone is a cookie cutter you know. So, if 7 lowbies want to jump on a 50s mission, good luck to em.
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Secondly, balanced to give them more survival? What are you talking about? If someone is SKed by a Level 50, they have the HP, damage output, resistance etc. as if they were Level 49. Why would it need balancing if they were auto-mentored to Level 49?
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then the best they could be is like now 49. So what?
Thats no different to now is it? I'm not suggesting we reinvent the wheel here. Im suggesting this may be a way of makimng the current SK system smoother and more user friendly.
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You also mentioned preventing PLing. If the above happened, PLing would still happen.
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I dont have an issue with you not thinking its a good idea (although your examples of wy not are tissue thin) I dont appreciste your patronising tone though.
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I did not mean to come across as patronising. I do apologise.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
Oh hey flamebait.
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I'll turn the tables on you.
your team lost the sk for one member. So you have to break the team or get him a new mentor. How &%$£^&%$ selfish was your team to not try and find a mission compatible level or something you could all involve yourselves in? If it was a PuG then well, self-serving to the last man from the sound of it. If it was an SG team then shame on your SG for it's lack of support.
Drop the SK system? No wai! It's fantastic. Yes it can be used for power levelling (unless GG's on the team but hey ho) and it's within the rules.
Final point: This is the first ever thread I've read saying stop the SK system in some 2.5 years here. I'm all for the minority voice but damn you must be feeling cold about right now 
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Scarlet, I'm not saying drop it at all. I'm saying improve it.
Answer me this: What would it remove from the current system? What would a syatem where the mission auto sks a player take away from the current SK system?
How would anyone lose out?
Apart from street farming. And maybe the game can keep the sk system for that.
I'm not sure if I'm writing in English and the computers translating to googldegook cause you are one of the brighter posters here and even you didnt understand what I was suggesting.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
*Gets to work on ascending the pecking order, so he'd be permitted to stay and enjoy a riveting and sensible discussion arising from a criticism of one of the best and most game defining features in CoX*
Ok Lionsbane. Here's a point for you:
A group of six people are teaming - three Level 50s, three Level 49s (Auto-mentored).
One of the Level 50s DCs in the mission. When the mission ends, the other two Level 50s log off. The 49s are reverted to their natural levels. Oh look! We have the situation your trying so adamantly to get rid of.
Also, most people are in SGs these days. All you need is the base teleporter or a local SG Portal.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
Right, I've ignored most of this thread because it seemed to turn into a flaming argument starting from where Rapthorn posted that he thought the thread wasn't worth posting in...
I think that they should just up the number of sidekicks each person can take with them, like Champions is going to be doing, to 4.
Seems like a good number to me, either that or 3, all you'd need is two high level people and you can make up the rest with sidekicks.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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I think maybe he means a question mark might have added something to the title
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There is a question mark. What are you talking about? Annd if not- so what?
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Yes - because I put it there, to make the thread seem more like a discussion
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
well the idea LB from the look of things is not favored. and would take ALOT of work changing petty much alot of the game around. sorry but this wont happen
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tonight I was on a team. Anyway, someone had to drop which meant his sidekick had to go to because there was no-one else to replace his mentor.
It got me thinking (although this has occurred to me before) why have side kicking at all?
After all, if you want to team and there are two players but you cant SK them both, then they lose out.
if, as happened tonight and does so frequently, the mentor drops, the SK loses out.
Not to mention it is still the best way to power level, which is hardly what the game needs, seeing as you can go through to 50 so fast these days anyway.
Why not just make it that if you join a team and the mission level is higher than you, then you are auto "mentored" by the mission itself? To maybe 1 level below the mission level.
Or Maybe to one level below the threat inside the mission.
It would mean you cant farm with a sidekick outside missions but that's against the spirit of the game anyway.
And look at how much easier it would be to get teams, fill teams etc. and how it would prevent the frustration of young players who are suddenly dumped, (or fall out of SK range while in mish. Remember why that range wqas put there in the first place. It wouldnt apply here.)
And the younger player still benefits abiet not as much as earlier.
It makes sense to me... Opinions?
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It seems to me that you're arguing for a change that really isn't needed (or wanted by the looks of it). The sidekick system, whilst a game mechanic, is also a pretty important concept to comic books and works very very well within the game. Changing it just so that more people can powerlevel (this is exactly what would happen), is dumb.
Sure, you could make it like the one being put into CO, and sidekick multiple people, but even THAT is bending the sidekick concept a fair bit. Traditionally, a hero has ONE sidekick, not four.
IMO, there's already been too many changes to the game to suit pure game mechanics, and too much "concept" stuff is getting left behind. If they keep on doing that, we won't be playing a comic book superhero game any more...
So no, I don't think this is a good idea. If you have more low levels than high levels, then swap around; exemplar the high levels instead and do some lowbie missions.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
No ty 
@Lukas
The sidekick system works just fine as it is. Your suggestion will still enable people to PL. In fact probably more so.
At the moment the maximum number of low level players that can get into a high level mission is 4. Under your system, all they'd need is one level 50, and 7 could get in.
The phrase that applies here I think is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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I think maybe he means a question mark might have added something to the title
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There is a question mark. What are you talking about? Annd if not- so what?
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Yes - because I put it there, to make the thread seem more like a discussion
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That was an accident. It was planned to be a question. So thanks. But I didnt know you could affect someone elses thread like that.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that you're arguing for a change that really isn't needed (or wanted by the looks of it). The sidekick system, whilst a game mechanic, is also a pretty important concept to comic books and works very very well within the game. Changing it just so that more people can powerlevel (this is exactly what would happen), is dumb.
Sure, you could make it like the one being put into CO, and sidekick multiple people, but even THAT is bending the sidekick concept a fair bit. Traditionally, a hero has ONE sidekick, not four.
IMO, there's already been too many changes to the game to suit pure game mechanics, and too much "concept" stuff is getting left behind. If they keep on doing that, we won't be playing a comic book superhero game any more...
So no, I don't think this is a good idea. If you have more low levels than high levels, then swap around; exemplar the high levels instead and do some lowbie missions.
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Well,I dont agree that it would necessarily preticipate PLing and even if it does there are ways to prevent if if so desired.
Still, I asked a straight question and you gave me an opinion without some of the nonsense I seem to be getting so thanks for that.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
The sidekick system works just fine as it is. Your suggestion will still enable people to PL. In fact probably more so.
At the moment the maximum number of low level players that can get into a high level mission is 4. Under your system, all they'd need is one level 50, and 7 could get in.
The phrase that applies here I think is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
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Yes but it can be improved. People have latched on to the PLing because I made reference to it.
But the fact that, if done right, it would make PLing less desireable (because of no bridging mainly) would be a side affect.
I'm thinking more of the times when an sk has to drop a team or when you cant balance the SKs properly and have to drop one or two.
Or when you are an SK, and your team mate moves out of range or goes to the hospital.
It just struck me as a more sensible way of enabling younger levela to play with their higher level friends without the complications.
But, its just an idea. If no-one thinks its a good one, then fine.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
My opinion of your opinion, as you asked for it in your OP, is that the current SK system is what makes this game stand out from others.
It is an excellent system allowing me to team with my friends even though we may have missed each other a few times/levels.
My opinion of your post/s above , which you didn't ask for and may be against the rules but here goes anyway, is that when you open a topic for discussion it is a good idea to allow people to do just that before you leap in and start to tear their opinion to shreds.
You have vented your displeasure at a number of posters here who have had the temerity to disagree with you however I would suggest you have brought this on yourself.
Reading the entire post it looks to me as though what you actually wanted was not peoples opinion of your suggestion, but an argument perhaps better suited to a verbal exchange judging by the speed of your responses.
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Well,I dont agree that it would necessarily preticipate PLing and even if it does there are ways to prevent if if so desired.
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Well, think about it.. If a level 1 can enter a level 50 mission, and get auto-SK'd to 49, just what do you think the farmers will do?
level 53/54 mobs
1 x level 50 Stoney
1 x level 50 fire/kin
6 x level 1's sucking up the XP.
Hell... *I'D* do it, and I'm not a farmer! 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok Lionsbane. Here's a point for you:
A group of six people are teaming - three Level 50s, three Level 49s (Auto-mentored).
One of the Level 50s DCs in the mission. When the mission ends, the other two Level 50s log off. The 49s are reverted to their natural levels. Oh look! We have the situation your trying so adamantly to get rid of.
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Only in the sense that because the mission owner has logged the others lose the mission. But that happens (rightly) whether you are sking or not. I don't understand your point.
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Also, most people are in SGs these days. All you need is the base teleporter or a local SG Portal.
[/ QUOTE ]
To do what? Have I missed something here?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
My opinion of your post/s above , which you didn't ask for and may be against the rules but here goes anyway, is that when you open a topic for discussion it is a good idea to allow people to do just that before you leap in and start to tear their opinion to shreds.
You have vented your displeasure at a number of posters here who have had the temerity to disagree with you however I would suggest you have brought this on yourself.
Reading the entire post it looks to me as though what you actually wanted was not peoples opinion of your suggestion, but an argument perhaps better suited to a verbal exchange judging by the speed of your responses.
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Can I have an example of that please? Seems to me I have answered those who have posted intelligently, in kind.
And likewise, those who cant quite "get it up."
I did ask that if you want to post on topic in favour or against, please do so. I Also asked that if you are unable to manage that, then please stay off my thread.
What part of that nonsense you just served up was on topic?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
Well,I dont agree that it would necessarily preticipate PLing and even if it does there are ways to prevent if if so desired.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, think about it.. If a level 1 can enter a level 50 mission, and get auto-SK'd to 49, just what do you think the farmers will do?
level 53/54 mobs
1 x level 50 Stoney
1 x level 50 fire/kin
6 x level 1's sucking up the XP.
Hell... *I'D* do it, and I'm not a farmer!
[/ QUOTE ]
I do take your point here.
But, you know what I think the problem is, FFM? I make suggestions to make things easier for casual players.
Most of the posters here think from the veterans perspective. Thats why its so easy to pick holes in suggestions like this, regardless of whether they are right or wrong.
Yes, if you find a stoney and a Fire kin, it may be done, but the vast majority of players wouldnt even think of that.
Or bother to find them.
The other thing is maybe we are innured to the devs NOT thinking it through properly and assume, that, if such an idea was a go, they wouldn't have thought of a way to deal with the pretty minor negatives.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
Okay then - I was going to avoid this scary thread but no, I shall Feel The Fear and Do It Anyway, as they say...
To answer the original post (and just remind myself what that was again, amongst all the shouting ) Lionsbane, I can see your point. If all possible mentors leave the team and there are no missions of lower level doable at that time, the sidekick loses out and that sucks for him/her.
However, with the system you've suggested in place - and hopefully I've got this right, which is that when a player of a much lower level joins a high-level team and enters a 'their-level' mission with them, the mission automatically mentors them - my concerns are this:
Theoretically, a person can create a new character, maybe do the tutorial if they like to get to level 2, run around and kill low-level stuff for a bit - and then think "Well, look at all these missions in the Baby Areas that I can do. Blow them for a game of soldiers - I'm gonna jump on some level 50 missions, woohoo!" And that's how they level up their character, for the rest of the game. Not only do they then miss out on, like, half the game, but if they're relative newcomers to CoX they might... let me see, how can I say this tactfully? Oh well... be pretty bloody useless to their level 50 buddies, because they won't have gone through the early-level process of feeling their way through their newly-acquired powers that the 'Baby Areas' offer. I mean, it's fine to stuff up a few times when you're in a team of same-level people who are just as likely to be making stuff-ups of their own, but by the time you've legitmately worked your way up to level 50 maybe you'd be looking for people who have a bit more idea of what they're doing. The existing Sidekick system ensures that the number of inexperienced players is proportionally balanced with experienced ones, but the system you're suggesting could theoretically allow 1 level 50 and 4 level 7s or something - so the level 50 could end up 'babysitting' a team of inexperienced lowbies through a mission. In a while, the level 50 players would get wise to that fact, tar all low-level players with the same 'newbie' brush and just refuse to take lowbies onto their teams - which kind of leaves them high and dry in much more of a sense than just being an abandoned sidekick.
That's just my opinion. I await your response with baited breath (and fear in my heart... )
While I see where your idea is coming from and it is a pain when you loose a High Alt and then loose the SKed low Alt I agree with FFM. I think your original suggestion would make PLing much easier.
What might work and I suspect even this could be abused is a system where you could perhaps have several SKs but only within a certain range. For example
1st SK any level
2nd SK within 15 levels
3rd SK within 10 levels
though again I agree with FFM, having multiple SKs doesn't really fit with the comic genre.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay then - I was going to avoid this scary thread but no, I shall Feel The Fear and Do It Anyway, as they say...
To answer the original post (and just remind myself what that was again, amongst all the shouting ) Lionsbane, I can see your point. If all possible mentors leave the team and there are no missions of lower level doable at that time, the sidekick loses out and that sucks for him/her.
However, with the system you've suggested in place - and hopefully I've got this right, which is that when a player of a much lower level joins a high-level team and enters a 'their-level' mission with them, the mission automatically mentors them - my concerns are this:
Theoretically, a person can create a new character, maybe do the tutorial if they like to get to level 2, run around and kill low-level stuff for a bit - and then think "Well, look at all these missions in the Baby Areas that I can do. Blow them for a game of soldiers - I'm gonna jump on some level 50 missions, woohoo!" And that's how they level up their character, for the rest of the game. Not only do they then miss out on, like, half the game, but if they're relative newcomers to CoX they might... let me see, how can I say this tactfully? Oh well... be pretty bloody useless to their level 50 buddies, because they won't have gone through the early-level process of feeling their way through their newly-acquired powers that the 'Baby Areas' offer. I mean, it's fine to stuff up a few times when you're in a team of same-level people who are just as likely to be making stuff-ups of their own, but by the time you've legitmately worked your way up to level 50 maybe you'd be looking for people who have a bit more idea of what they're doing. The existing Sidekick system ensures that the number of inexperienced players is proportionally balanced with experienced ones, but the system you're suggesting could theoretically allow 1 level 50 and 4 level 7s or something - so the level 50 could end up 'babysitting' a team of inexperienced lowbies through a mission. In a while, the level 50 players would get wise to that fact, tar all low-level players with the same 'newbie' brush and just refuse to take lowbies onto their teams - which kind of leaves them high and dry in much more of a sense than just being an abandoned sidekick.
That's just my opinion. I await your response with baited breath (and fear in my heart... )
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It's a well thought out and elequently spoken argument to my suggestion. And it has stopped me in my tracks somewhat because I take your point.
But I work from a different angle to this.
To me I look at something knowing there will ALWAYS be a down side.
The first question I ask myself is: If I can achieve my goal and eliminate the downsides, will it be worth it?
If the answers yet, I take the concept, look at the downside and see if I can address that. If I can address the problems then we're on a winner.
So, in my mind, this idea works. (im only giving MY opinion.) ~Next I look at the brainstorming about what the negative side affects , such as you mentioned could be, then I try to find solutions.
So the fact that there could be negatives doesnt nessecarily prevent me from putting the idea on the table in the first place.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
I do take your point here.
But, you know what I think the problem is, FFM? I make suggestions to make things easier for casual players.
Most of the posters here think from the veterans perspective. Thats why its so easy to pick holes in suggestions like this, regardless of whether they are right or wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Feralyn points out another downside to this. Newbie players, on discovering they CAN do the higher level missions, WILL do them.. They'll miss huge amounts of content, think the game is basically shallow, and leave.
You can think they won't, but human nature dictates that they WILL. Hell, a friend of mine was telling me yesterday that he was teaming with someone who'd only just got the game, and they were looking for someone to PL them to 50 so they could start playing it properly...
I immediately called "WoW player" , but the point is valid. Most people just want to beat the game. Only through playing it in the early levels will they discover that actually PLAYING it is far more fun.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
ok getting back to the topic in hand (sans vitriol I hope)
the SK system is a time honoured comicbook thang. Batman and Robin are pwn that but you don't have to go very far to see Tony Stark and the (not so new) Spidey
Hulk & Rick Jones
Matt Murdock & Foggy Nelson (yes, sidekicks work in the -real- comicbook world)
etc ad infinitum
Lions the scenario you paint is very rare in game (I don't deny it happens) and can be easily cured with the addition of a new member who can mentor the guy with no SK. Personally I find that a much better selling point than "wanna tm m8"
I'll turn the tables on you.
your team lost the sk for one member. So you have to break the team or get him a new mentor. How &%$£^&%$ selfish was your team to not try and find a mission compatible level or something you could all involve yourselves in? If it was a PuG then well, self-serving to the last man from the sound of it. If it was an SG team then shame on your SG for it's lack of support.
Drop the SK system? No wai! It's fantastic. Yes it can be used for power levelling (unless GG's on the team but hey ho) and it's within the rules.
Final point: This is the first ever thread I've read saying stop the SK system in some 2.5 years here. I'm all for the minority voice but damn you must be feeling cold about right now
Thelonious Monk