[ QUOTE ]
What would be the point of going to an auto sked mission to power level if the most xp you would get would be 1 levels worth of xp above what you get if you fight an even levelled con now?
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats about all you get now with a sk give or take, the flaw with your plan is the 1 fire / kin or whatever and 7 lowbies possibility.
So the small loss in xp would be well and truely out weighed by being able to PL more than 1 at a time.
Not that i think it's a bad plan personaly, but a lot of people on here still like telling others how to play.
Thats why in my opinion it didnt get a great reception,that and the fact you have had the odd argument on here too aint you 
So you came back to the discussion on the boards to say you don't want to discuss it on the boards any more?
That makes sense.
I'm against it because it seems to be so exploitable and the current system seems to work great. 1 mentor, 1 sidekick. Seems fair enough to me.
I don't care about what a group of friends do together, but the shadow of lots of newbies (whether new players or new toons) hanging around the PI ferry and drive-by telling any 50s passing by to SK a gaggle of them and PL them fills me with fear for the game community.
Chumps Online seem to be expanding on it merely to expand on it IMO.
Why do I get the feeling that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong?
Your idea may have some merits but I think as the system we have now works best to leave well alone. there are many more pressing problems then this.
Happy to be on Defiant.
Global name @mereman
Member of P.E.R.C. Representing Defiant
Alts http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/4488
CoH faces http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/mereman
[ QUOTE ]
Why do I get the feeling that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong?
Your idea may have some merits but I think as the system we have now works best to leave well alone. there are many more pressing problems then this.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no idea. I was just closing my contribution to the thread.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
I'm quite sure your idea has merit, but you don't seem to be willing to admit that the existing system does, actually, work and changing it over to the mechanism you suggest may be too much work for the benefits received.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never once said it doesnt work. I personally dont see anything wrong in taking a working idea and evolving it.
And yes, I do think it would be better but I am aware that others dont. Why should that stop me putting counter views forward when someone says they dont like it with reasons that I think can be circumvented? Doesnt mean I'm right, but that i have an idea and I'm rebutting the point thats being raised because the objection you present can be overcome.
For example I have stated several times that with this system you CANT power level at all. Yet you keep coming up with that as a reason not to implement such a system.
And telling me that i keep ignoring the fact that the power levelling (which cant happen) makes it a no go.
And because of that im accused of being arrogent and dismissive.
You wouldnt be able to powerlevel if this system were implemented. Can I be any clearer than that?
Your point about it being too much like hard work to get off the ground may be valid, but its hard for me to listen to your objections when you clearly dont fully understand what i have been driving at in the first place.
I stated already that I'm dropping the thread because of a lack of enthusiasm about the idea. I dont have an issue with that at all.
I really do when I'm accused of being arrogent when in fact the point I was pretty clearly making was ignored and the idea debunked becauyse of an issue that wasnt even part of the suggestion.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
You wouldnt be able to powerlevel if this system were implemented. Can I be any clearer than that?
[/ QUOTE ]
How would you not be able to power level with your system?
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You wouldnt be able to powerlevel if this system were implemented. Can I be any clearer than that?
[/ QUOTE ]
How would you not be able to power level with your system?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I've been wondering too. I even went back through your posts looking for an explaination but there's none there. You keep saying it without explaining it.
So explain please.
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You wouldnt be able to powerlevel if this system were implemented. Can I be any clearer than that?
[/ QUOTE ]
How would you not be able to power level with your system?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I've been wondering too. I even went back through your posts looking for an explaination but there's none there. You keep saying it without explaining it.
So explain please.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, explain. Because I and others have ALL demonstrated how it would be even MORE easy to PL with this system than the current one.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
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I'm quite sure your idea has merit, but you don't seem to be willing to admit that the existing system does, actually, work and changing it over to the mechanism you suggest may be too much work for the benefits received.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never once said it doesnt work. I personally dont see anything wrong in taking a working idea and evolving it.
And yes, I do think it would be better but I am aware that others dont. Why should that stop me putting counter views forward when someone says they dont like it with reasons that I think can be circumvented? Doesnt mean I'm right, but that i have an idea and I'm rebutting the point thats being raised because the objection you present can be overcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
In the absence of a lock I don't see anything at all stopping you putting counter views forward. Post away if you want, or don't if you think things have run their course, but either way there's nothing actually stopping you posting.
[ QUOTE ]
And because of that im accused of being arrogent and dismissive.
[/ QUOTE ]
I generally try to be impartial, and I am here too, but TBH I don't think it's the substance of your posts that lead to these accusations - it's the phrasing. Taking a few quotes from your earlier posts in this thread, we have:
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Besides who the heck cares about a question mark? Crikey some of you really stretch the limits of pure pedantic nonsense. Can those of you who are like that please stay away?
Is it possible that the intellegent posters, the ones who dont jump at every opportunity to be sarcastic or to knock someone else, please post?
Or nort? But the wasters? Please stay away, Cause you are a drain on these boards you really are.
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Your sarcastic tone isnt appreciated and makes you look pretty pathetic.
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Did you read the title or my whole point?
I'm not suggesting doing away with the concept of teaming wioth lower levels, I'm suggesting a better (imho) way of updating a 5 year old syatem to make it even more accessable than it is now.
Can you see that now?
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I asked the ones who can only go to the lowest denominator to stay off my thread. Please oblige.
[/ QUOTE ]
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I did ask that if you want to post on topic in favour or against, please do so. I Also asked that if you are unable to manage that, then please stay off my thread.
What part of that nonsense you just served up was on topic?
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, these are all fragments quoted away from their original contexts, but to a fair degree that doesn't matter. Repeatedly make posts of that sort of tone in any context, and it does form an overall impression.
FWIW I've said this to try to explain why people react the way they do, not to try to provoke any sort of flame war...
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You wouldnt be able to powerlevel if this system were implemented. Can I be any clearer than that?
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How would you not be able to power level with your system?
[/ QUOTE ]
I said ;
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I've heard the reasoning out, dont buy into a lot of it because quite frankly, the current system supports PLing far more than an auto sk that will only allow pro rata xp regardless of the level of the mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
From an earlier post.
In other words the game would mark your, for example level 10, chars xp exactly as if you were running a mission against level 11 opposition.
the only differential may be if, for instance against an AV.
Can you see a PLing hole in that?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
Can you see a PLing hole in that?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, thats what you get now more or less sk'd to a 50, dont forget the majority of pl'ing teams aint got a handy bridge.
And that aside under your system you can PL 7 at a time, so that by far out weighs the slight xp disadvantage.
[ QUOTE ]
And because of that im accused of being arrogent and dismissive.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I generally try to be impartial, and I am here too, but TBH I don't think it's the substance of your posts that lead to these accusations - it's the phrasing. Taking a few quotes from your earlier posts in this thread, we have:
Besides who the heck cares about a question mark? Crikey some of you really stretch the limits of pure pedantic nonsense. Can those of you who are like that please stay away?
Is it possible that the intellegent posters, the ones who dont jump at every opportunity to be sarcastic or to knock someone else, please post?
Or nort? But the wasters? Please stay away, Cause you are a drain on these boards you really are.
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Your sarcastic tone isnt appreciated and makes you look pretty pathetic.
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Did you read the title or my whole point?
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Standoff, if you're gonna do this you have to put in the posts that prompted such responses. That is completely unfair. You havent shown why I responded like that.
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I'm not suggesting doing away with the concept of teaming wioth lower levels, I'm suggesting a better (imho) way of updating a 5 year old syatem to make it even more accessable than it is now.
[/ QUOTE ]
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I asked the ones who can only go to the lowest denominator to stay off my thread. Please oblige.
[/ QUOTE ]
Same
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I did ask that if you want to post on topic in favour or against, please do so. I Also asked that if you are unable to manage that, then please stay off my thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
Same
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What part of that nonsense you just served up was on topic?
[/ QUOTE ]
Same
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Of course, these are all fragments quoted away from their original contexts, but to a fair degree that doesn't matter. Repeatedly make posts of that sort of tone in any context, and it does form an overall impression.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then why dont you go through the posters that have spoken to me in a civilised manner and post my responses there? You know full well I was being flamed and you also know I dont like being flamed or the people that do it.
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FWIW I've said this to try to explain why people react the way they do, not to try to provoke any sort of flame war...
[/ QUOTE ]
Read this thread again and see who started with thr insulting behavior. I have never ever started (intentionally) a flame war nor have I ever flamed someone unless they directly flamed me first.
For instance, I dont think you ever actually flamed me and I dont think I've ever had a cross word with you. But we disagree frequently.
But yes, I sure as hell finish them. Usually its because I post and keresnki locks the thread but hey 
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
Can you see a PLing hole in that?
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yep, thats what you get now more or less sk'd to a 50, dont forget the majority of pl'ing teams aint got a handy bridge.
And that aside under your system you can PL 7 at a time, so that by far out weighs the slight xp disadvantage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok. Hunour me here cause maybe im missing something. Lets say I am level 15 and do a mission with 7 team mates and we fight level 16s.
Lets say purely for the sake of argument I end up (no debt) with 3000 xp points as a result.
So after i drop the team I get an invite with a level 50 team. Against level 53s.
the game will only grant me aprox 3,000 xp because it will treat the 53 as if they were 16s for xp purposes.
So how can you power level on that basis? Am i missing something?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
I think its easy to say this isnt gonna happen so why carry on the Arguement
[ QUOTE ]
I think its easy to say this isnt gonna happen so why carry on the Arguement
[/ QUOTE ]
Because everyone seems to be missing what i'm saying and are asking me to verify what I mean. I conceded the point quite a while ago.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
Ok. Hunour me here cause maybe im missing something. Lets say I am level 15 and do a mission with 7 team mates and we fight level 16s.
Lets say purely for the sake of argument I end up (no debt) with 3000 xp points as a result.
So after i drop the team I get an invite with a level 50 team. Against level 53s.
the game will only grant me aprox 3,000 xp because it will treat the 53 as if they were 16s for xp purposes.
So how can you power level on that basis? Am i missing something?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, i dont know the numbers but here goes.
You do your mission with your own level team and get 3000xp, at the moment if you then join a lvl 50 team, get sk'd to a 50 and fight 53 mobs you will end up with 4000xp.
Under your new scheme you can power level 7 lvl 15s and get them all 3000 xp.
So if your running your PL company (or just got a few chars/mates that need PL'ing) what would you rather have?
1 customer getting 4000 xp per mission or 7 customers getting 3000 xp?
Not a PL mogul but I was always under the impression that speed and ease trumped High "single numbers" as well. i.e. a couple of 50's can quickly and repeatedly clear a farming mission much quicker than a team of 16's could clear one of their missions therefore even if they are only +1's to the 16 they're gonna drop so much quicker and xp/min is going to be higher..
Kneeling girls! Statues driving cars! What's going on? Ten years ago a man was arrested in the area for driving statues around in a car. Was it him?
@Ted Maul - The Echelon
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Not a PL mogul but I was always under the impression that speed and ease trumped High "single numbers" as well. i.e. a couple of 50's can quickly and repeatedly clear a farming mission much quicker than a team of 16's could clear one of their missions therefore even if they are only +1's to the 16 they're gonna drop so much quicker and xp/min is going to be higher..
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats right, then add in the fact that under Lions's scheme you can do that for 7 of your friends or 5 or even 3 at the same time and that is the PL'ing hole in the plan.
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Standoff, if you're gonna do this you have to put in the posts that prompted such responses. That is completely unfair. You havent shown why I responded like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did very explicitly say "Of course, these are all fragments quoted away from their original contexts", so it's not as though I'm trying to pull a fast one here.
And, as I said immediately after, "repeatedly make posts of that sort of tone in any context, and it does form an overall impression" - my whole point is that the context isn't the main issue.
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Then why dont you go through the posters that have spoken to me in a civilised manner and post my responses there? You know full well I was being flamed and you also know I dont like being flamed or the people that do it.
[/ QUOTE ]
FWIW I have tried that previously, but experience has shown it's all to easy for that sort of thing too be misinterpreted so I've decided it's safer not to weigh in on either side. (We did sort things out via PM right after the linked posts - no hard feelings here!)
Besides, GR's the one to say whether something's a no-no, not me - wouldn't like to steal his work from him.
[ QUOTE ]
Read this thread again and see who started with thr insulting behavior. I have never ever started (intentionally) a flame war nor have I ever flamed someone unless they directly flamed me first.
For instance, I dont think you ever actually flamed me and I dont think I've ever had a cross word with you. But we disagree frequently.
But yes, I sure as hell finish them. Usually its because I post and keresnki locks the thread but hey
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps K can do one final thread lockage as he leaves on his last day, as an eternal memorial to his time at Brighton.
Oh yes, we do often disagree (as both of us do with other people), but as you say on an amicable basis. I'm a mild, inoffensive type, though (albeit a sarcy git whenever possible) and tend to phrase things rather mildly - while experience suggests you're not a guy to...how to put this...underreact to a perceived insult, and this does tend to start fires in places where they weren't really needed.
Edit: Removed inaccurate statement.
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Not a PL mogul but I was always under the impression that speed and ease trumped High "single numbers" as well. i.e. a couple of 50's can quickly and repeatedly clear a farming mission much quicker than a team of 16's could clear one of their missions therefore even if they are only +1's to the 16 they're gonna drop so much quicker and xp/min is going to be higher..
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats right, then add in the fact that under Lions's scheme you can do that for 7 of your friends or 5 or even 3 at the same time and that is the PL'ing hole in the plan.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly, its the rate a 50 or two can deal with massive spawns compared to lower levels (especially an AOE specialist like a Fire/Kin or Spines/*) which makes the difference. It's like a Sewer Run to the Nth degree. I've seen this myself SKing a teen SG member whilest my Fire/Rad and a Kin/Dark street hunted in Bricks. They made 2 or 3 levels insanely quickly and we weren't even trying to leverage the system, just standard hyper street hunting. And we were just 30-somethings, so we didn't even have epics. Imagine that with 5 other lowbies in tow in a mission.
You won't be able to pull off the Bridging PL trick, but since one 50 could auto-sk and PL 7 people (and probably be happy about it since it acts as a Fill for them so their Inf rate will still be pretty good, so its got a bit of farming synergy too) it more than offsets that. And since its auto you don't need a 46 and a 50 to pull it off. Lowbies would know they could just go to PI and beg for PLs.
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For example I have stated several times that with this system you CANT power level at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Getting higher than normal XP, which you will, and putting no effort in for it, which they will be, counts as power levelling in my book. If you prefer, it's a leech's charter. Whatever.
[ QUOTE ]
Why should that stop me putting counter views forward when someone says they dont like it with reasons that I think can be circumvented?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm unaware that I'm stopping you putting forward anything. What I was actually stating in the post you clipped so neatly, was that you are constructing invalid arguments not to support your idea, but so that you can attack other players.
Specifically, you proposed a world in which CoX had no SK system, and stated that people would be complaining about its introduction. I was answering that for most of my post, but you seem to have decided only to clip the bit at the bottom to respond to.
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You wouldnt be able to powerlevel if this system were implemented. Can I be any clearer than that?
[/ QUOTE ]
And it has been clearly explained to you that you're wrong about that, but if you wish continue with that statement:
Your proposal will result in large scale nagging for level 50s to allow lower level characters to leech off their missions. While there will be those who see benefit in this, farmers mostly who will be happy to accept the fills, the effect on the general atmosphere in PI (particularly) would be deletorious.
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Your point about it being too much like hard work to get off the ground may be valid, but its hard for me to listen to your objections when you clearly dont fully understand what i have been driving at in the first place
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There you go. Arrogant wasn't a word I had actually used in reference to you, but you're definately making the assumption there that I don't understand what your idea entails. I do, you just refuse to accept that, and believe myself and anyone else who disagrees just doesn't understand you. I think that you don't understand how such a system would actually work, but I'm not going to assume that. Perhaps you do and want it that way.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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So how can you power level on that basis? Am i missing something?
[/ QUOTE ]Like the fact that a few L50's can kills stuff 10 times faster than a full team of L15's? Yeah, you are.
[ QUOTE ]
There you go. Arrogant wasn't a word I had actually used in reference to you, but you're definately making the assumption there that I don't understand what your idea entails. I do, you just refuse to accept that, and believe myself and anyone else who disagrees just doesn't understand you. I think that you don't understand how such a system would actually work, but I'm not going to assume that. Perhaps you do and want it that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
We're going round in circlesa and I keep dropping the thread and someone one makes points that prompt me to reply.
Rereading what I wrote it does seem that I patronised you. I apologise for that. I didnt mean it qiute as harshy as it came out.
Ok. Last night 2 very interesting things happened. I was sked into a 8 team. I played off (after sk) against + 5s.
Now at level 25 myself. what real value did I add to the team?
A too high proportion of my strikes missed and when I hit I caused minimal damage.
However I gained 2 levels. ( i was about 3 bars into a level when we kicked off,.)
Meanwhile, a player who had 2 accounts brought his level ONE to the team.
The rest of the team were (apart from a level 31 and a 33)level 34 ish (the mobs were 35)
I could and strictly speaking should, have SKed with a 34 for team efficentcy sake. But I wanted the extra xp being +5 could afford me, knowing I was covered by a pretty strong team.
The level 1 guy finished the session at about level 8 I think.
Now, both he and I exploited a loophole in the gaming system. The team didnt benefit from us. We benefitted from it.
And we';re both pleased about it but- should that opportunity be open to us? Isnt that kind of thing (and it goes on, understandably, all the time) against the spirit of the game?
In my scenario, the worst case seenario that everyone is hitting me with, is being in a team against (scaled) + 1s getting xp relative to that.
And the only upside to all that is that the 50s team could wipe the map a bit quicker than If I stayed in a team at my normal level.
So while you could argue through the eye of a needle that yes, it is possible to mildly power level, it just doesnt compare even remotely to the current system.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There you go. Arrogant wasn't a word I had actually used in reference to you, but you're definately making the assumption there that I don't understand what your idea entails. I do, you just refuse to accept that, and believe myself and anyone else who disagrees just doesn't understand you. I think that you don't understand how such a system would actually work, but I'm not going to assume that. Perhaps you do and want it that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
We're going round in circlesa and I keep dropping the thread and someone one makes points that prompt me to reply.
Rereading what I wrote it does seem that I patronised you. I apologise for that. I didnt mean it qiute as harshy as it came out.
Ok. Last night 2 very interesting things happened. I was sked into a 8 team. I played off (after sk) against + 5s.
Now at level 25 myself. what real value did I add to the team?
A too high proportion of my strikes missed and when I hit I caused minimal damage.
However I gained 2 levels. ( i was about 3 bars into a level when we kicked off,.)
Meanwhile, a player who had 2 accounts brought his level ONE to the team.
The rest of the team were (apart from a level 31 and a 33)level 34 ish (the mobs were 35)
I could and strictly speaking should, have SKed with a 34 for team efficentcy sake. But I wanted the extra xp being +5 could afford me, knowing I was covered by a pretty strong team.
The level 1 guy finished the session at about level 8 I think.
Now, both he and I exploited a loophole in the gaming system. The team didnt benefit from us. We benefitted from it.
And we';re both pleased about it but- should that opportunity be open to us? Isnt that kind of thing (and it goes on, understandably, all the time) against the spirit of the game?
In my scenario, the worst case seenario that everyone is hitting me with, is being in a team against (scaled) + 1s getting xp relative to that.
And the only upside to all that is that the 50s team could wipe the map a bit quicker than If I stayed in a team at my normal level.
So while you could argue through the eye of a needle that yes, it is possible to mildly power level, it just doesnt compare even remotely to the current system.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it does, as I've already pointed out, because it'll be 7 lowbies at a go rather than 1 level 25 and one lowbie.
Plus since its automatic word would get out, a lot of people would start making their "system" for the low zones "Go to PI. Beg for 8 man PL team. Profit" rather than actually playing the lower levels.
And yes the rest of your team did benefit from your presense : larger spawn sizes.
[ QUOTE ]
What really has to be considered here is the attitude of the boards themselves. If, for example, there was no side kick syustem in place and the devs announced they'd introduce one, or I suggested the syatem, the boards would be full of the downside. (PLing in particular)
[/ QUOTE ]
What I find interesting is that you construct an invalid argument and state what people would do in order to attack the other forum members, rather than constructing a valid response.
In practice, most games do not have an SK system, but they also don't then have limitations on the XP earned based on level difference. If there was no XP system, and one was then introduced, it would likely result in a reduction in PLing compared to a typical game which allows level-capped characters to take lower levels along to leech.
You have been given, admittedly apocryphal, evidence that a system such as you propose (effectively implemented in AoC) results in large scale PLing, and (more importantly) large scale begging to be power levelled, but you appear to wish to ignore that so that you can snipe at other forum members about their attitude. Of course, it can't be your fault, it must be everyone else's.
I'm quite sure your idea has merit, but you don't seem to be willing to admit that the existing system does, actually, work and changing it over to the mechanism you suggest may be too much work for the benefits received.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.