Are melee ATs slowly becoming obselete??
By
Bindweed,
Posted on: 2008-08-14 09:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Thinking about this...I've had the Chosen One since day one of Euro CoH, he's been respec'd a whole...er...once! He's a katana/regen and stop me if I'm totally wrong here but regen has seen its fair few nerfs in its time (a certain ex-toggle springs to mind as well as the hotly contested new MoG). I've noticed very little difference when I return to him, although I did notice I can't take on as many critters as I used to...no biggy just gotta be careful instead of being half-asleep. The point to these mad ramblings? Well as I think mentioned elsewhere the nerfs make little difference, it's not as if I went on to C1 and thought "oh my god they've killed him...he's useless" cos he's far from it and having completed an ITF recently he showed me he still has it (apart from when I tried to take on a few too many bosses (see above)).
Like I say he's been respec'd once, and I think that was after ED. Call me insane but I don't mind the odd nerf here and there making the game feel more like a game rather than a dream.
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
There still seem to be just as many Tanks as other ATs running around, so that might mean that there is a good balance, and no AT is more popular than any other.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
There still seem to be just as many Tanks as other ATs running around, so that might mean that there is a good balance, and no AT is more popular than any other.
[/ QUOTE ]
Apart from on CoV where Brutes are 10 a penny...which further proves melee AT's are strong and with us 
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
To be fair, kat/regen has an absurdly high survival potential, especially in melee situations.
Also, to be fair, /regen Scrappers were once gods. Perma-MoG got nerfed, then Instant Regen got nerfed, then MoG got nerfed again. Now, I think when Perma-MoG got taken out, people had to respec out of that one, but the rest of the nerfs had made little or no difference that needed a respec. OTOH, they did result in a slow degredation of the survivability of the set. Nothing you could fix with a respec, so respecs don't really give a good indicator.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Yea bad example I know cos of the absurdity but was the first melee toon I could think of that had been nerfed. Although I would say the most absurd melee I've got is my SR scrapper who takes a decade to get it (I remember actually wanting him to get hit at one point and he hasn't even got elude yet!)
Kinda did the respec thing to show I'm not a panic respec'er you get those that soon as something changes in their AT they panic respec or instantly think the power is now useless cos its been nerfed which occured during the recent MoG and as you've stated there's nothing that a respec could fix anyways. These are nerfs that just need a little change in the game plan or approach to the character and I accept that, see it as a challenge rather than another chance to have a go at the devs (again I'm just generalising here not saying anyone is whining!)
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
Darn!
I was hoping I13 would finally give me a lvl 50 spines/WP brute, but doesn't seem like it's worth doing now.
[ QUOTE ]
which occured during the recent MoG and as you've stated there's nothing that a respec could fix anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
The new MoG is a massive difference from the old one and some people might have considered dropping it. I know people did when Perma-MoG vanished ("Oh gods! I'm no longer a god 100% of the time, the power is useless!" Yeesh.)
I got a bit of a shock when I realised what they had done to MoG and I admit that I'm not entirely sure that it is still a useful power. 15 seconds isn't long enough to do anything useful aside from run away. I use it as a means of wiping an EB's team mates and if I get hit by a Sapper drain. Its utility for Sapper drains has both increased and decreased. It's useable far more often than it was, but 15 seconds of high Recovery is barely worth the bother. I think I have it for old times sake now as much as anything, and because I can't think of another power worth having.
But I'd always recommend waiting before respeccing because you don't really know what the damage is until you use it some.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
New MoG is an alpha/burst soaker - which is arguably /Regen's main weakness - not a godmode or panic button.
Yep. I took my Ma/Regen to 50 and never once considered getting old-style MoG. Didn't like the way it worked, didn't need it. If I make another /Regen, though, I would most likely take MoG purely for taking the Alpha.
Oh, and I don't think melee ATs are anywhere near becoming obsolete. Just to be on topic 
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
I've started the old/new MoG argument again....why god....whhhhhy!!!!! I wasn't much of a MoG user before the nerf and I'm still not much of a Mog user now although I found it is really good to use when on low health to build abit more up (just throw my 2 pence in again).
But yea melee FTW!!!1!!!!
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
[ QUOTE ]
New MoG is an alpha/burst soaker - which is arguably /Regen's main weakness - not a godmode or panic button.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, I've been using it for that by accident. Fair enough, fully useful at last.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
[ QUOTE ]
New MoG is an alpha/burst soaker - which is arguably /Regen's main weakness - not a godmode or panic button.
[/ QUOTE ]Works quite well for all three purposes.
I was playing with my Regen scrapper just before I came on here. MoG is now a great little power.
But back to the main question... No I shouldn't think Melee ATs are being phased out. Tweeks are always needed, but they shouldn't make a class redundant.
But Doooooooom mongers will always be shouting that something's now dead or broken and the game is now unplayable because of the tweeks. My favourites are pre ED Fire tank players.
I've learnt to live it with it. Embrace change
[ QUOTE ]
Darn!
I was hoping I13 would finally give me a lvl 50 spines/WP brute, but doesn't seem like it's worth doing now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oohh, you know the changes that Spines is getting? Tell us please
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I can see people build dream teams and then moan how something isn't challenging anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
Oh my god...
How dare he anti-nerf Invuln like that? It's an outrage and melee chars are now surely doomed!
[/ QUOTE ]
That particular one is a correction not nerf or anti nerf. The - on unyeilding was in place when invul was much more powerful.
Since then its been nerfed almost out of recognition and the - on unyeilding has long been identified as an overkill.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Darn!
I was hoping I13 would finally give me a lvl 50 spines/WP brute, but doesn't seem like it's worth doing now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oohh, you know the changes that Spines is getting? Tell us please
[/ QUOTE ]
From Castle:
[ QUOTE ]
Facts:
I consider the base damage of Spines powers to be roughly where they should be (no spreadsheets here, but that's the general thing I remember.)
The primary issue I have with the set lies with the plethora of secondary effects. If I were to proceed, I'd likely eliminate the Immobilize stacking and tone down the Slows. I'd take a look at the DOTs, too. Range and animations almost certain would not be touched.
A spines pass is not on my schedule, currently...which means it's unlikely for at least a year (schedules can and do change, though!)
[/ QUOTE ]
I really should do something about this signature.
[ QUOTE ]
I've only just realised what ET and TF mean...
And I've got an Energy Melee brute...
And I haven't noticed any changes...
[/ QUOTE ]
There is one. It takes about a 1.5 seconds longer to fire of energy transfer and the animations changed.
It actually doesnt do much harm or good to either the set or the game generally which kind of makes you wonder why they bothered to go to the trouble of doing it in the first place.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
There still seem to be just as many Tanks as other ATs running around, so that might mean that there is a good balance, and no AT is more popular than any other.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tio my knowledge Tanks have always been the least played AT on the heroes side apart from the kelds. And, to my mind strangely, blasters are the highest.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
From Castle:
[ QUOTE ]
Facts:
I consider the base damage of Spines powers to be roughly where they should be (no spreadsheets here, but that's the general thing I remember.)
The primary issue I have with the set lies with the plethora of secondary effects. If I were to proceed, I'd likely eliminate the Immobilize stacking and tone down the Slows. I'd take a look at the DOTs, too. Range and animations almost certain would not be touched.
A spines pass is not on my schedule, currently...which means it's unlikely for at least a year (schedules can and do change, though!)
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Looks fine to me.
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
[ QUOTE ]
There is one. It takes about a 1.5 seconds longer to fire of energy transfer and the animations changed.
It actually doesnt do much harm or good to either the set or the game generally which kind of makes you wonder why they bothered to go to the trouble of doing it in the first place.
[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, who cares about game balance, Castle should be fixing SG's or something.
[ QUOTE ]
There is one. It takes about a 1.5 seconds longer to fire of energy transfer and the animations changed.
It actually doesnt do much harm or good to either the set or the game generally which kind of makes you wonder why they bothered to go to the trouble of doing it in the first place.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, who cares about game balance, Castle should be fixing SG's or something.
[/ QUOTE ]
In what way does that change affect game balance in any shape or form? Especially given that the game is (including beta) 5 years old?) And that Energy Transfer (and the set itself) has a massive trade off?
As for the SG crack, you are absolutely correct as any leader of any successful Sg will tell you.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, who cares about game balance, Castle should be fixing SG's or something.
[/ QUOTE ]
As for the SG crack, you are absolutely correct as any leader of any successful Sg will tell you.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you'll find Max was being sarcastic there... 
Castle is the powers guy, Any changes to SG code would be absolutely bugger all to do with him.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
In what way does that change affect game balance in any shape or form?
[/ QUOTE ]By bringing what is quite likely the most overpowered (at least for ST damage) powerset closer to the other sets.
[ QUOTE ]
Especially given that the game is (including beta) 5 years old?
[/ QUOTE ]...your point being? Do you honestly think they have achieved perfect balance during those 5 years?
[ QUOTE ]
And that Energy Transfer (and the set itself) has a massive trade off?
[/ QUOTE ]What, a whooping 9% off your base HP? You call that a massive trade off?
[ QUOTE ]
As for the SG crack, you are absolutely correct as any leader of any successful Sg will tell you.
[/ QUOTE ]You missed the point completely, Castle is a power dev, and has nothing to do with SG's.
Oh, and being a co-leader of a successful SG, we're doing quite fine as we are.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yes, its nerfs to melee ATs all the way:
[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
looking into Invul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^^^
I added 5 lines to my todo list today, all addressing issues with Invulnerability. They'll likely be in I13, assuming I get approval. Yes, this means the -Def in Unyielding Stance might go away.
Again...pending approval, I13, don't take this as a promise, etc, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
-Castle
[/ QUOTE ]
What???! But if they do that my scrapper might be able to get to the def cap by himself??! Damn them, thry broke me
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"