Doooooooom! Subscription numbers, erm, UP
By
Alphane,
Posted on: 2008-08-13 10:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Lionsbane, I would just like to point out that you come across as someone who is very impatient, wanting everything now. I for one think that we should at least let NCNC show us what they can do before saying they're not doing anything. You may argue that you're not saying that, but that's how it comes across. If you think they are not doing enough to deal with the competition then i'd like to know what the basis for your feelings are: i13 is the first post-JE issue. Let's see what it is before we decry it. And let's give the devs a chance to do it right.
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I don't know about Lionsbane but I'm getting damned impatient. i12 wasn't that huge and NCNC have been talking about how the team is much bigger now and there's loads to come. And yet a lot of the really cool ideas I've seen seem to still be at the Survey level, not even close to being implemented.
I don't think its going to be the death of the game or anything, I just want em to get the finger out. 8 months of the year are gone already and we've still only got 1 issue this year, and not a very big one at that. I wants new stoofs!
As for the cuts in the Austin branch of NCSoft, that's nothing to do with CoH is it? It's more likely a ramp down of Developer numbers following the release of Tabula Rasa.
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I don't know about Lionsbane but I'm getting damned impatient. i12 wasn't that huge and NCNC have been talking about how the team is much bigger now and there's loads to come. And yet a lot of the really cool ideas I've seen seem to still be at the Survey level, not even close to being implemented.
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Here's a question for you: Have NCNC ever done a survey before? No? So how do we know how far into development some or all of these ideas are? They might have just been doing the survey before they decided which ones to actually put into I13, and have them all ready to run at a moment's notice for all we know.
Can everyone please stop assuming that it's business as it usually was with Cryptic? At Omega Sektor War Witch was really excited about the ability to take the game in the directions they wanted to, without the shackles they had previously been bound by.
Perhaps I'm an optimist, but I sincerely think we're in for one hell of a surprise with I13, and I want the devs to get it right.
Here's a non-doom-and-gloom theory to be going with: What if I13 has EVERYTHING in the survey in it, plus shields, plus anything else we know about? Would you be willing to have waited if hindsight shows that we're getting something THAT huge?
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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I don't know about Lionsbane but I'm getting damned impatient. i12 wasn't that huge and NCNC have been talking about how the team is much bigger now and there's loads to come. And yet a lot of the really cool ideas I've seen seem to still be at the Survey level, not even close to being implemented.
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Here's a question for you: Have NCNC ever done a survey before? No? So how do we know how far into development some or all of these ideas are? They might have just been doing the survey before they decided which ones to actually put into I13, and have them all ready to run at a moment's notice for all we know.
Can everyone please stop assuming that it's business as it usually was with Cryptic? At Omega Sektor War Witch was really excited about the ability to take the game in the directions they wanted to, without the shackles they had previously been bound by.
Perhaps I'm an optimist, but I sincerely think we're in for one hell of a surprise with I13, and I want the devs to get it right.
Here's a non-doom-and-gloom theory to be going with: What if I13 has EVERYTHING in the survey in it, plus shields, plus anything else we know about? Would you be willing to have waited if hindsight shows that we're getting something THAT huge?
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I agree with most things you say here Shadowe. I'd be delighted if your theory is correct, it'd be amazing. I'll be the first to be jumping up and down and waving wee flags.
At the same time I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about how long its taking and the lack of any meaningful communication about whats to come over the last month or two. And I'm not sure its fair for anyone who voices such concerns to be labelled a "doom and gloom" merchant any time they post anything critical of the devs.
I just wants new stoofs. i11 and i12 didn't really interest me much at all (i9 and i10 I thought were great though) so I'm itching for some new content!
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I agree with most things you say here Shadowe. I'd be delighted if your theory is correct, it'd be amazing. I'll be the first to be jumping up and down and waving wee flags.
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You wave the flags. I'll just squeal.
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At the same time I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about how long its taking and the lack of any meaningful communication about whats to come over the last month or two. And I'm not sure its fair for anyone who voices such concerns to be labelled a "doom and gloom" merchant any time they post anything critical of the devs.
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Here's my take on it: The devs know that they're going to release I13. They will have begun development on it long before I12 came out. They know it's a biggie. They are also abundantly aware that CO and DCUO are in development and that they have to take control.
In their shoes, I would do two things:
Firstly, I'd make sure that I13 was top-notch. Primo, game-release stuff.
Secondly, I'd put off releasing any details, even at the expense of annoying my own player-base, until the very last minute I can so that the developers for DCUO and CO can't do anything about the funky new stuff I'm including without it becoming clear that they're only copying.
This is what I mean when I say I want the devs to get it right. If you read between the lines of Redname posts, they're laughing in their beers about our speculation, and, from experience, that means that they know they're going to be exceeding our expectations one way or another. I'm willing to put up with a bit of tactical silence from Positron if it means really cool stuff, and that is the only reason I can conceive of for such a silence in the first place.
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I just wants new stoofs. i11 and i12 didn't really interest me much at all (i9 and i10 I thought were great though) so I'm itching for some new content!
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You and me both. I just want it to be the best content it can be.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
http://mmogdata.voig.com/
This is the site of choice for me...
@Boy Wonder
Quantum Flash - Ill/Kin Controller
Leader of the Legion of Heroes
but that's a terrible site... 13 million SL subscribers? what?
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Perhaps I'm an optimist, but I sincerely think we're in for one hell of a surprise with I13, and I want the devs to get it right.
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*giggles* You have no idea .
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Here's my take on it: The devs know that they're going to release I13. They will have begun development on it long before I12 came out. They know it's a biggie. They are also abundantly aware that CO and DCUO are in development and that they have to take control.
In their shoes, I would do two things:
Firstly, I'd make sure that I13 was top-notch. Primo, game-release stuff.
Secondly, I'd put off releasing any details, even at the expense of annoying my own player-base, until the very last minute I can so that the developers for DCUO and CO can't do anything about the funky new stuff I'm including without it becoming clear that they're only copying.
This is what I mean when I say I want the devs to get it right. If you read between the lines of Redname posts, they're laughing in their beers about our speculation, and, from experience, that means that they know they're going to be exceeding our expectations one way or another. I'm willing to put up with a bit of tactical silence from Positron if it means really cool stuff, and that is the only reason I can conceive of for such a silence in the first place.
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The Shadowe is wise ... and apparently has been lurking when I go play pool after work.
Announcements about Issue 13 will be made when the NCNC team feel that the time is right, and not a moment before. There are a lot of factors that come into play in making that decision. Announcing too early in a knee-jerk reaction to future competition that doesn't exist yet is a dangerous thing to do. The quote from BAB's above is absolutely spot on: information is a very strong and valuable tool, but it's also a transitory one that must be managed carefully.
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*giggles* You have no idea .
The Shadowe is wise ... and apparently has been lurking when I go play pool after work.
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Hey now, stop that at once! You're turning in to as big a tease as Kerensky!
It's mean to taunt us so!! 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
So, issue 13 is secret because Cryptic are a bunch of rip of merchants...
I really should do something about this signature.
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Perhaps I'm an optimist, but I sincerely think we're in for one hell of a surprise with I13, and I want the devs to get it right.
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*giggles* You have no idea .
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Here's my take on it: The devs know that they're going to release I13. They will have begun development on it long before I12 came out. They know it's a biggie. They are also abundantly aware that CO and DCUO are in development and that they have to take control.
In their shoes, I would do two things:
Firstly, I'd make sure that I13 was top-notch. Primo, game-release stuff.
Secondly, I'd put off releasing any details, even at the expense of annoying my own player-base, until the very last minute I can so that the developers for DCUO and CO can't do anything about the funky new stuff I'm including without it becoming clear that they're only copying.
This is what I mean when I say I want the devs to get it right. If you read between the lines of Redname posts, they're laughing in their beers about our speculation, and, from experience, that means that they know they're going to be exceeding our expectations one way or another. I'm willing to put up with a bit of tactical silence from Positron if it means really cool stuff, and that is the only reason I can conceive of for such a silence in the first place.
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The Shadowe is wise ... and apparently has been lurking when I go play pool after work.
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AAAARGH! You evil, evil person.
*plans to hunt down GR and force him to provide details somehow*
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Perhaps I'm an optimist, but I sincerely think we're in for one hell of a surprise with I13, and I want the devs to get it right.
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*giggles* You have no idea .
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Noooooo, he's playing with our minds agaaaaain!!! 
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Announcements about Issue 13 will be made when the NCNC team feel that the time is right, and not a moment before.
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You misspelled 'stars'.
Grrr this wont do at all.... I want the game all to myself 
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but that's a terrible site... 13 million SL subscribers? what?
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SL is free... one person can make a million account if they want to. For having 13 million accounts, the most i've seen online when i tried it was 15k.
And f thee ghostraptor for teasing us so ><
I has naughty Sapphic Neko arts i can bribe ya with! *nudge nudge*
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So, issue 13 is secret because Cryptic are a bunch of rip of merchants...
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Most MMO developers copy the best features from other MMOs, though - they'd have to be pretty daft not to. You can be sure SOE and Cryptic will be nicking all the bits they like about CoH/V (and WoW and every other MMO) and I'd hope NCNC will be able to steal some of the best bits from their efforts too. This is pretty much how the MMO genre evolves.
Spot on Shadowe.
The devs know what's coming competition wise, and from what I've read they're not in the least bit worried about it because of the plans they have of their own.
As was rightly pointed out too, the time for information release is extremely important to maximise the impact of it. In relative terms, it's early days yet.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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The devs know what's coming competition wise, and from what I've read they're not in the least bit worried about it because of the plans they have of their own.
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Admittedly anyone working for NC will have to say that anyway for PR reasons, otherwise cries of doom will ripple through the playerbase, some subscribers could become discouraged and potentially taint the perception of others against the game (both subscribers and outsiders), making an exodus more likely. (It's bad enough with all the people running around on EU global channels now trying to convince everyone to move to the "alleged paradise" of US servers ).
Even so I'm not overly concerned. Like the rest of you I think the Devs know I13 has to be good/big, and I think (ok, hope) it will be. I have faith it will be worth waiting for.
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*giggles* You have no idea .
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Rockjaw used to do that too, but his was more a plain, simple chuckle as befits a simple space station tailor... Insane giggling is more mad scientist territory. I approve. 
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The Shadowe is wise ... and apparently has been lurking when I go play pool after work.
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The Shadowe has faith in the great gods of NCNC, as do I. Particularly the divine goddess of combat and witty scriptlines, the most holy War_Witch (does that make me a War_Wiccan?)
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Hey now, stop that at once! You're turning in to as big a tease as Kerensky!
It's mean to taunt us so!!
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Think he'd make a great Dom, you know
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
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Admittedly anyone working for NC will have to say that anyway for PR reasons, otherwise cries of doom will ripple through the playerbase, some subscribers could become discouraged and potentially taint the perception of others against the game (both subscribers and outsiders), making an exodus more likely. (It's bad enough with all the people running around on EU global channels now trying to convince everyone to move to the "alleged paradise" of US servers ).
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It's one thing to publically say, "We're not worried about the future competition", but what's coming out of the NC camp is far more "solid" than that imo. They've got an absolutely doozy in the wings, and I really don't think all the speculation and rumour in the world is going to do it justice.
Maybe I'm setting myself up to be disappointed, but oddly I don't think I'm going to be.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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They've got an absolutely doozy in the wings, and I really don't think all the speculation and rumour in the world is going to do it justice.
Maybe I'm setting myself up to be disappointed, but oddly I don't think I'm going to be.
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Here's hoping....
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Spot on Shadowe.
The devs know what's coming competition wise, and from what I've read they're not in the least bit worried about it because of the plans they have of their own.
As was rightly pointed out too, the time for information release is extremely important to maximise the impact of it. In relative terms, it's early days yet.
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It isn't early days anymore though, Steele. DC andCO have both thrown down the first baton. That's why I feel CoH should respond pretty darn quick. I dont think they have to give us specifics. If for example they tell us arch enemies are coming (this i'll bet any money on)they dont have to actually give details about the way theyll impact gameplay.
So they arent really helping the competition by throwing at a few hints.
Dont forget CO comes out in April. DC- who knows? But the betas are way before that.
And I think we out to be way in front for when that happens.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
It was assumed that the release of World of Warcraft, Age of Conan and others in that genre would totally destroy Final Fantasy XI.
Funnily enough, it's still there after six years (Although having a strong userbase in Japan helps).
It takes a lot going wrong to kill a MMO stone dead. Fans are fans, CO and DC will not appeal to everyone.
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It isn't early days anymore though, Steele. DC andCO have both thrown down the first baton.
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Well, with ones graphics and the others animations, the right word might be "fumbled", not thrown
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
On the contrary. It's only August. If NC make a kneejerk reaction and respond with what they have up their sleeves now, that still gives Cryptic and SOE to implement something in competition before their game goes beta, let alone live.
As far as I can see, NC could wait until either / both games go into final beta before making the announcement, but I have a feeling they won't wait that long. If I were a betting man, I'd say we'd start hearing more definite things around November / December time, and afaic that would be nearer the "right" time for disclosure than now.
(PS.. SteelRat doesn't have an e after the "l" )
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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And the game WILL take a massive hit. the question will be wil the subs be high enough by the time it happens to withstand it.
At this rate the answer is no. And I dont want that. I want the game to be ready.
Sorry to anyone whos offended that I want the game to survive the next 12-18 months.
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I'll admit I'm not the most optimistic of people regarding CoHs long term survival, however I don't really believe that anything the devs do or don't do or say at this stage in the games life is going to have a significant effect on the subscription numbers. The numbers will fluctuate a bit for one reason or another but short of a sequel I can't see any massive influx of players.
The devs are probably getting themselves ready, it's just a case of when we get to hear about it. They can't pull players out of thin air so all they can do is try and retain as many as they possibly can. However if they release their ideas now they will be forgotten by the time their first competitor appears on the market. I think this post by BaBs is correct, in particular;
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Information is a very powerful, but short lived resource for us. It's in everyone's best interest to utilize it to its maximum potential by releasing it in the right time and the right place.
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Maybe if CO and DCO both got released tomorrow and were fan[censored]tastic CoH could be dead in 12-18 months but even at my most pessimistic I can't see it dropping off the map in that timescale without at least one major contender already on the market.