Theft from SG.. Tale of Woe
By
ajax_cat,
Posted on: 2008-08-04 18:10 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
_Atlas
Having played three and a half years you must have more friends out there than the one individual who has royally p****d you off. I'm sure word of mouth to your friends can cause this individual some aggro at least.
[/ QUOTE ]
...and get your friends mod attention if their own actions can be counted as harassment.
I'd very strongly advise against going down that road.
Well while everyone else quotes rules and regs at you i'll just say you have my sympathy and in my opinion this guy should be ostrasized by the entire community for his behaviour.
Although you and i both know he won't be.
Where's the humanity people????
[ QUOTE ]
Well while everyone else quotes rules and regs at you i'll just say you have my sympathy and in my opinion this guy should be ostrasized by the entire community for his behaviour.
Although you and i both know he won't be.
Where's the humanity people????
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a bit difficult to get overly wrought over the theft of some virtual goods to be honest. Bummer it happened but that's about as worked up as I can get.
Be happy you weren't playing EVE though. That game is truly evil.
And don't let one bad experience make you leave the game. Why should some idiot drive you from a game you love?
[ QUOTE ]
Where's the humanity people????
[/ QUOTE ]
humanity dosnt aply we are not human we are super beings we are beter than that,.. sort of
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He may not be a child, but he does play a villain ...
:P
[/ QUOTE ]
just because you may or may not play a villian gives you permision to empty an sg storage then leg it claming hay only natural im a villian (regular villian player myself for the record)
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, that's the whole point. As a villain you don't need permission. So perhaps playing villains could have given him the incentive to act well villainous.
Though honestly, it was merely a tongue in cheek comment, so don't read too much into it.
When it happened to us i was told that it needed to be done a few times to prove a patern before action could be taken, so its not quite as cut and dried as some on here would like to say.
One thing in here did make me laugh a few posts back, is the whole im an in character role playing villain bit. What a sack of [censored] excuse that is, i remember at the time of our theft, the shitbag concerned said he was working on the orders of "a higher power"...... right.
Well in those "i was in character" cases i think something should be done, without the need for them to do it 3 times to prove a pattern.
The whole problem with the "I was in character" excuse is that the SG owners can't also play to character and execute the miscreant on the spot.
I understand how betrayed you must feel, and i really do feel sorry for you. However this bit here got my attention (sorry for not quoting :P) :
Indeed even the standing message of the day stated "Please
do not remove anything from the base without asking first, unless YOU put it in there", in order to make the point very clear that just because he had access did not mean he had permission.
You claimed originally, it was just YOU and your alts in the SG, however since he joined it became, just you, your alts and him? Correct? Now obviously something made you feel like there was a big possibility that he would thief salvage or goods from the SG to put it up there. Also in your story you claimed he asked for higher access on your SG in heroes, and you quite rightly said no, but if this wasn't obvious for you to realise at the time that theres obviously something wrong there, then quite frankly thats your problem for then granting him higher access on villains. and you took the responsibilty upon yourself that there is a chance of goods being stolen. You cannot then turn around and claim NC are not doing as much as they can about the situation, bla bla bla. This is entirely your fault for trusting him, and not giving more time to escelate that trust into SG rankings.
You should think twice before blaming a whole system over 1 mans doing tbh.
[quoteThe actual age is probably irrelevant here, but you don't really know a darn thing about the person who betrayed your trust. Sure you got an impression of them over a couple of weeks, but they may not be who you thought they were
[/ QUOTE ]
Firstly folks really need to read what has gone before as im having to repeat myself quite at the moment because folks are only responding to a response or two previous and so arent in full possession of the details they are repsonding about
Now to your comments; The actual age IS relevant as a certain measure of maturity and responsibility is expected from an adult that can easily be overlooked and forgiven in a minor.
Also it wasnt a couple of weeks, as already stated it was every day for a month, 12+ hours a day. got to know the guy so well I know his name and his girlfriends and was on first name basis with them both, I know his girlfriends sons name, I know where he lives, I know what they do.. I know plenty about him. Now admitedly all that could be a complete fiction made up by them both though for the sake of robbing someones salavage racks I cant see them constructing an entire fake life..can you? He may have been a muppet but he wasnt machiavellan lol
[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not they had the 'right' to take the items may be subjective, but what is known is that they couldn't take anything unless you gave them permission to remove items from SG storage.
Again: You gave them permission to remove items from SG storage.
[/ QUOTE ]
again, im goign back over old ground here.. but as previously explained in this topic.
I did not give him permission, I gave him access (of a fashion, see below) and although it obviously to some of you equates to the same thing, as I and others have said.. their is a very small, but fundamental difference between the two. And when you also consider I made a point of leaving a standing message of the day that stated in direct terms that they did not have permission to remove ANYTHING from the base unless it was something they themselves had placed in thier. A point I had discussed and explained to him directly.. then no, because he had access does not equate to him having permission, which I and he know full well he did not.
[ QUOTE ]
You may have done this implicitly. You may have promoted them to a level that had removal rights and didn't realise it and never intended them to have removal rights. In that case it's an unfortunate mistake on your part, but it is a mistake on your part. Maybe to help stop this, the UI needs to show you the new access permissions upon promotion and get them confirmed...
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually the specifics of his access werent quite as straight forward as making a mistake.. what actually happened was as I have previously noted.. the SG in question was set up by me as a home for my own characters, so ALL ranks had permission to put in and take out of the base, because my own characters were (and still are) of varuing ranks.. so for my own conveniences I needed to be able to access the stuff whatever of my alts I was on.
So when I allowed him to join the SG at his request, I did not give him access to the base storages as so much as didnt remove it from hi, and I didnt remove it from him because to do so would also have meant that certain of my alts would also have then been prevented from being able to access my storages. And the reason I didnt/couldnt do that is because the system doesnt allow me to be more specific in who or what can put in take out from the base than yes everyone of that rank can, or no everyone of that rank cant.
Its also not like I just made a blunder.. I made a point of putting nothing in the base for all but the last3 or 4 days of the month I played with the guy and his girlfriend because I wanted to be sure it would be safe if I did, and everything he had said and done and how he cted indicated it was.. but lo and behold a couple of days after I put stuff in and make a point of noting its not their to be taken it was gone and so was he.
[ QUOTE ]
Removal permission is an all or nothing affair - and you granted permission.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, he had access, not permission
[ QUOTE ]
All scenarios have a mistake or error of judgement of some form on your part.
[/ QUOTE ]
An error in judgement only so far as getting taken in by a liar and a thief who I had gone WELL out of my way to help, introduce to the game and encourage aand support constantly.. nothing more.
[ QUOTE ]
He'd possibly be in trouble if he'd started sending you tells gloating at his actions and effectively confessing to griefing, but maintaining a silence isn't EULA-contravening afaik.
[/ QUOTE ]
again going back to rpevious statements.. He actually did act smug and cocky about his actions. When he put me on global ignore after his theft I had a freidn send him a tell to let him know I had reported his theft at which point he took me off ignore and sent me a tell trying to act all indignant and deny the theft, of course he didnt realise id been in the base and checked and had the log as proof as he is a noob (not meant derogatarily, he really is new to the game.. the month i played with him was his first month).
when I tried to get an explanation from him about why he had done it, he couldnt gve me one, and after several attempts to get to the bottom of it, he stated it was because of words we'd had, which was total rubbish as we'd ad no wrods.. indeed only a few hours before we'd all done a Respec mission and the last words spoken before I logged that night were BRB from him as he and his girlfirend headed off to use thier earned Respecs. thier was no justification or explanation to it, he did it simply because he could. And when I pointed out to him again that the matter was in ncsofts hands and I hoped they threw the book at him (my exact words were, I hope they ban the pair of you..slightly unfair in only so much as it was him who thieved not his girlfriend who showed more sense), he was smug and cocky, stating thy would not do anythign, they would care more about thier subscription fees than replacing my stuff and then he placed me back on global ignore.
[ QUOTE ]
_Atlas
Having played three and a half years you must have more friends out there than the one individual who has royally p****d you off. I'm sure word of mouth to your friends can cause this individual some aggro at least.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually of the many long term friends I had on COX only two of them are still subscribed and one of those spends almost all his time farming/pvp'ing on his own or with his own Sg and the other does much then same when he's on which si rare as these days he spends 99% of his time on Age of Conan lol
Part of the reason I take the odd person under my wings is in order to make new friends, contacts that last beyond a single mission or two.. but I would be very reluctant to do so anymore because this experience has left me very suspiscious of new people.
I mean if someone you spend 12+ hours with every day for a month can appear one way and then in the blink of an eye become a total stranger who turns on you and sstabs you in the back then it starts to get real blurry as to how to determine the good guys from the bad.
I prefer the jersk to be jersk from the get go lol at least that way you know what to expect and can avoid the betrayal by not wasting time and efort on them in the first place.
I think for me one of the worst things about this is just that.. I went incredibly out of my way to help the guy and later his partner too.. well above and beyond the cause. You would expect that to "mean" something to them, to have a little gratitude and loyalty towards you for it, not to turn on you and rob you. It stings, it really does.
Bored of this now and no matter how many more pages of posts go on the situation is not going to change.
You have lost your stuff, and that is a shame. But you are partially responsible for the loss and not NC. You have been effectib=vely hit by a scammer.
Can this not get dropped now?
[ QUOTE ]
Well while everyone else quotes rules and regs at you i'll just say you have my sympathy and in my opinion this guy should be ostrasized by the entire community for his behaviour.
Although you and i both know he won't be.
Where's the humanity people????
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you, DeusExMAchina, appreciated 
[ QUOTE ]
Be happy you weren't playing EVE though. That game is truly evil.
[/ QUOTE ]
I used to, for two and a half years, and I can honestly say I never had a single bad experience there, their are some really, really nice people playing that game (special nod to the BoB), but being a PVE'er and not a PVP'er the game eventually lost its sparkle to me.
[ QUOTE ]
You claimed originally, it was just YOU and your alts in the SG, however since he joined it became, just you, your alts and him? Correct?
[/ QUOTE ]
On the villain side Sg he robbed yup, its my 14 villains, and "was" also his and his girlfriends 1 character each.
[ QUOTE ]
Now obviously something made you feel like there was a big possibility that he would thief salvage or goods from the SG to put it up there.
[/ QUOTE ]
not really, it was more to make the point that any of my stuff which was being put in thier at the time such as the mass amount of base salavage I put in off the two characters I transferred over in order to use the salvage they had to make base teleporters etc.. was not thiers to take and sell and also that the IO's I was putting in storage to be collected by 1 or more of my alts were also ot there to be freely taken. It wasnt noted as a fear of him "stealing" it, as so much as to make the point it wasnt stuff intended to be freely taken anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
Also in your story you claimed he asked for higher access on your SG in heroes, and you quite rightly said no
[/ QUOTE ]
I never stated he wanted more access.. I stated he wanted more responsibility, most pointedly the ability to edit the base itself. I also said he asked for this on the heroes side Sg I have which has been around as longas I have and isnt just me and my alts so I wasnt about to give a newcomer that kind of access to something so long established and didnt. I also stated on the hero side of things his rank and permissions didnt allow him to take things out of the base. and he didnt push the point of more responsibility after that. So no it wasnt indicative of what was coming down the line on the villain side of things at all.
The Sg for me and my alts on villains side was far younger and less established basewise, but even there I didnt give him the ability to edit the base. but I did juggle his rank and the permissions of his rank so he could do more than he could on the heroes side of thinga (which is again what i stated in my original post). With regard to storage access I explained what happened there several posts back. It wasnt so much I gave him access, as so much as I didnt actually take it away, as all ranks had access permitted due to me needing it that way in order for all my alts to be able to access storage as they have various ranks, which was in par another reason why I made the clarification about stored items not being there to be taken, unless it was his stored stuff he was taking.
[ QUOTE ]
You should think twice before blaming a whole system over 1 mans doing tbh.
[/ QUOTE ]
And you should perhaps come down off your pedastel and not be so accepting of a system that is WIDELY accepted as "needing work", even by those whose job it is to oversee it lol.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Removal permission is an all or nothing affair - and you granted permission.
[/ QUOTE ]
nope, he had access, not permission
[/ QUOTE ]You gave him permission (through the supergroup rank permissions screen) to access base storage. In other words, to "approach, enter, speak with, or use" it. Removing the entire contents of the storage counts as usage. You can deny it all you like, but you did give him the permission to do what he did through game mechanics.
*Sigh*
This is getting slightly boring.
Because Invincible_Atlas doesn't understand what the word permission stands for here (as in in-game: supergroup tab>settings>permissions).
Either he's doing it on purpose or he's not paying attention to the subtlety. But I can see that the general consensus is one of "This sucks - sorry you were conned - yes we DO understand what your SG-MotD mentionned - can't give you too much sympathy unfortunately - you allowed/gave access/gave permission for him to take items"
Gonna stop reading this thread as it feels like I'm sober and talking to a drunk girlfriend. And by that I mean the conversation is repeating itself and going round in circles...
[ QUOTE ]
Gonna stop reading this thread as it feels like I'm sober and talking to a drunk girlfriend. And by that I mean the conversation is repeating itself and going round in circles...
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea go back to doodling innocent catgirls in demeaning positions!
[ QUOTE ]
Gonna stop reading this thread as it feels like I'm sober and talking to a drunk girlfriend. And by that I mean the conversation is repeating itself and going round in circles...
[/ QUOTE ]
"No, I won't have sex with you. Yes I will have another drink."
"No, I still won't have sex with you. Yes I will have another drink."
"No, I won't have another drink. Or sleep with you."
?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gonna stop reading this thread as it feels like I'm sober and talking to a drunk girlfriend. And by that I mean the conversation is repeating itself and going round in circles...
[/ QUOTE ]
"No, I won't have a drink, but yes I will sleep with you."
?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed for girls talking to me.
Well, I am Jaw Dropping...
@Jaw Dropper - Toons of all levels so drop me a line!
Imaginary Inc.
Twitter me!
Actually I did read all of the posts before posting, its a strange thing to admit but I do tend to try and understand a thread before stepping in with size 10s.
As I have said keeping this alive is not a healthy thing to do you have vented your spleen its been done to death now.
As for being advised to post this hear, its a good idea it brings the subject out into the open for discussion but I have not seen much of that actually going on only a lot of woe is me anything constructive was lost round page 6/7
I agree this is a paid for service, not trying to agree or disagree with whats happened to yourself but if the other player IS role playing a villain then is he not then following your own maxim?
I personally dont actually see you as being abused only having another player not play the way you would prefer them to play!
And as he is also paying for the game he is playing the way he wants to play it.
As for allowing or not allowing people access to your SG bins your call as I said you never really know who a player is until you group with them over time, if youre lucky you find a band of likeminded individuals and enjoy their company of an evening if not then it adds spice to the game after all whats the point of playing if there is no surprises.
If the permissions are redefined that does not actually change the problem you have experienced as if a player wants to do anything with the base they will always need good access, and with that comes the option for abuse.
Mind if you have played with this chap for 12 hour days for a month you may also want to consider going outside into the real world and have a break. Let this drop anything mildly constructive is being buried in the endless return arguments you are constructing.
It really is simple now
You gave him a level that allowed him to remove items!
He the removed the items.
That may not be what you wanted him to do, but it is what he wanted to do and he did.
Learn the lesson and move along, really dont look back keep moving forward.
And to join the general consensus at the end I to will bow out from hear its become a very pointless post now and needs to drop gracefully away.
Regards
Nom
I think in a real world situation the Police would make every effort to pursue this case to it's inevitable conclusion. Unfortunatley this happened in game, which doesn't neccaseraly mean the same legal ramifictions don't apply, but what seems to have caused some dispute in this case is the nature of the 'permission sysem', the OP is adamant and I am perfectly willing to believe him that he made clear his intent in giving someone such permission and this trust was broken. Unfortunatly being an entirely binary permission system in game in eesence it could be agrued while th OP contests that what he meant was you can take for the good of the group you may not take for your own personal gain, all that can really be ascertand by the fact he checked that particular box is that he said 'You may take'. This unfortunatly seems to have led to some degree of misunderstanding and heated discussion.
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I am Jaw Dropping...
[/ QUOTE ]
You're not if you look anything like your Avatar mate.
[ QUOTE ]
I think in a real world situation the Police would make every effort to pursue this case to it's inevitable conclusion.
[/ QUOTE ]
No they wouldn't, they'd prolly point and laugh.
Real life scenario is this. Person A hands the keys to his house to Person B. Person B uses the keys to unlock the house and take anything he wants from there. Person A is baffled and outraged and called the police, when they ask how person B gained entry person A replies: "Oh i gave him the keys to my house." To which the police will laugh their [censored] off and hang up.
If i was a PC and received a complaint that when I was down the pub my mate wanted to borrow a DvD so not wanting to leave the pub I leant him my keys for the express reason of only taking one already specified DvD from my house and he cleared the place out I think, I would indeed have to take that seriously, Sorry.
But if you dsagree cool, err can I borrow your keys to get that DvD you were on about don't want to put you out you know!!!!!!!!! 
_Atlas
Having played three and a half years you must have more friends out there than the one individual who has royally p****d you off. I'm sure word of mouth to your friends can cause this individual some aggro at least.
It would be a great shame if you were to cancel your account.
From my position ( a noob - 6 months ) I would have welcomed someone to show me the ropes and ease me into the game. Instead I spent much time on the forums and learning the hard way.
Don't let the actions of one individual and the company stance deter you from the enjoyment you obviously get from this game and the help you have given and could still give to the future players.
I hope you stay and I'm sure your friends do.
Main Heroes: Dark Requiem 50+2, EarthGlade 50, Natures Wrath 50, Imperion 50, Spectral Echo 50, MydKnight 42, Flash-Point 42, Cascade Effect 39, Scirrocco 35, QuantunStarburst 41, EarthLight 35, Silver-thorne 32, StormFrost 35
Up and Coming: , DragonStorm, Metalworks