Theft from SG.. Tale of Woe
By
ajax_cat,
Posted on: 2008-08-04 18:10 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Ok I'd ask everyone in this thread to chill, the OP is obviously vexed about the incident and the companies inability to do anything about it. I think we all agree in general that what @x did was wrong and nothing is to be gained really by pulling each other over 'points of law'. Peace out people
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Actually it is valid, as with the metaphor I gave the option the give access is an all or nothing affair
[/ QUOTE ]Option to access != Permission to use/take. If you were to give someone the keys to your house and write a contract with them allowing them to take whatever they wish into their own possession, then it would be comparable to this situation.
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Nope, he had access to them and therefore an ability to remove them but he did not have permission. Indeed even the standing message of the day stated "Please do not remove anything from the base without asking first, unless YOU put it in there", in order to make the point very clear that just because he had access did not mean he had permission.
So quibble about semantics all you like..but your somewhat mising the point.
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the OP is obviously vexed about the incident and the companies inability to do anything about it.
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Actually, that HAS been the one light point in all this, I honestly believe the Senior Gm is frustrated by the fact nothing can be done, which is why she no doubt suggested I post the situation and thier response here, possibly in the hopes of highlihgting a problem in how things works that may need o be fixed/changed?
I do get your point, I just think you're wrong. You were in no way forced to give them access to the storage, but you did. Since the permission system functions on a binary system rather than with more complex permissions, at that point any limitations you imposed on them were fully trust-based, not via game mechanics, and thus you no longer had protection of them being broken.
Max mate some people are less interested by the gums flapping and more interested in the feelings involved as my gran used to say if you ain't got nothing nice to say .....
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Max mate some people are less interested by the gums flapping and more interested in the feelings involved
[/ QUOTE ]And they have the full right to ignore my posts if they find them irrelevant or offensive.
Meanwhile, I'll just continue replying when I see some points I'd like to reply to.
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I do get your point, I just think you're wrong. You were in no way forced to give them access to the storage, but you did. Since the permission system functions on a binary system rather than with more complex permissions, at that point any limitations you imposed on them were fully trust-based, not via game mechanics, and thus you no longer had protection of them being broken.
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With all due respect Maximillion
Your stance seems to be that it is okay that I got stolen from and that nothing was done about it, because a) it was by the rules, which in some way makes it okay. And that b) because I gave him access his theft is therefore made acceptable because it is essentially my fault for trusting him... as such so no, Imafraid you REALLY dont get my point.
I just hope you never get stolen from in this way, for althoug it undoubtedly give you a little bit more perspective on the right and wrongs of it all it is not something I would wish on anyone.
As for what is the difference between Revenge and someone having to answer for thier unacceptable behaviour..if that isnt obvious, there would seem little point me explaining it.
See you're wise enough not to get cocky with my Gran though hey!
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I just hope you never get stolen from in this way, for althoug it undoubtedly give you a little bit more perspective on the right and wrongs of it all it is not something I would wish on anyone.
[/ QUOTE ]If I will get "stolen" because trusting someone who wasn't trustworthy, then I'll simply accept my loss and move on. Assuming they played by the rules, they had the right to make their choice, even if it wasn't beneficial for me.
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As for what is the difference between Revenge and someone having to answer for thier unacceptable behaviour..if that isnt obvious, there would seem little point me explaining it.
[/ QUOTE ]Surely you are aware that, alongside with deterrence and rehabilitation, revenge (or "retribution") is one of the three main factors in most criminal punishment systems?
Wow you must so love the sight of your own text man!
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Wow you must so love the sight of your own text man!
[/ QUOTE ]Nah, just the debates. We haven't had a good one on these boards in months.
[Edited: Personnal attack]
What would you care to debate mate. the price of fish is a nightmare these days don't you think?
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Your stance seems to be that it is okay that I got stolen from and that nothing was done about it, because a) it was by the rules, which in some way makes it okay. And that b) because I gave him access his theft is therefore made acceptable because it is essentially my fault for trusting him... as such so no, Imafraid you REALLY dont get my point.
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It's never okay when someone steals from another. We all get that.
Every time you log on COH, you agree and adhere to NC's rules. No democracy here, only in-game set rules.
Those rules make it so that, yes, it is acceptable for someone to remove items from any base IF they have had permissions to do so given to them.
You gave @thievingscum permission to remove items.
Not anyone else did. YOU did.
I honestly suspect that you're miffed at yourself for allowing @thievingscum to nick stuff and misplacing your trust on someone you thought was a friend.
This is the bottom line at the very end of all this.
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I do get your point, I just think you're wrong. You were in no way forced to give them access to the storage, but you did. Since the permission system functions on a binary system rather than with more complex permissions, at that point any limitations you imposed on them were fully trust-based, not via game mechanics, and thus you no longer had protection of them being broken.
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You did note the actual point of all this in with your usual unsypathetic point of view there.
Its the trust element that pisses people off,then the lack of being able to do something about it straight after.
Your view on the rules making wrong things right REALLY is obscure, its a good job not many people share it or the world would be a [censored] up place.
[Edited: Personnal attack]
Oh yes the weather is [censored] too, we are all gonna die of global warming, either that or get rather healthy looking suntans
[Edited: Personnal attack]
@Rhi @Rhi.
Proud Member Of The Forum Cartel, For Smurfs
www.murders-unlimited.co.uk
Now Now people we are doing are best to avoid a flame fest here thanks
This has happend befor and will proably happen again and at a guess from the no of posts you have you are an infrequent visitor to the forum. As such you probably would not have been forwarnd of this type of behaviour. Having said that you would proably have acted in the same manor as youve already stated you had no reason not to trust him. Personaly I see this more alone the lines of a con + theft. Which in my eyes is worse than a stright forward theft. Any organisation or individual who would condone this however indirectly is as moraly bankrupt as the person commiting the offence and I admire your stance.
But please do not leave this game with a bitter taste in your mouth. It has give you meny hours of enjoyment with plp who you have come to know and trust. If you do leave take those memmories with you and not this last one. I am sure meny good plp will be sad to see you go. On a final note and with a bit of a hope of keeping you here, if your not around to tell plp in game what has happend (only a low % read the forum)who will.
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Your view on the rules making wrong things right REALLY is obscure, its a good job not many people share it or the world would be a [censored] up place.
[/ QUOTE ]Laws and rules represent what the society has chosen to allow. Therefore, as long as someone acts by them, I have no right to demand that they be punished for it. That doesn't mean I have to condone their actions. After all, people don't have to force their own moral views on others.
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Your view on the rules making wrong things right REALLY is obscure, its a good job not many people share it or the world would be a [censored] up place.
[/ QUOTE ]Laws and rules represent what the society has chosen to allow rather laws tend to represent what a society wants to supress . Therefore, as long as someone acts by them Even if you KNOW them to be entirely injust , I have no right to demand that they be punished for it Though if it's you who's crossed you also would probably be unable to stop yourself wanting such . That doesn't mean I have to condone their actions. After all, people don't have to force their own moral views on others. Quite true please try not to do so in future then hey
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@********** hopefully naming and shaming him will at least proect others from his morally bankrupt antics.
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Against the forum rules - I can't believe Customer Support told you to name and shame him.
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Thinking about it it is rather odd staff should encourage you to do this as anyone could make a claim of misdeeds against anyone with none of us really able to verify such claims. People would be able to run hate campaigns against other players with possibly no recourse ( for non forum users ).IMHO this thread will be heavily edited in the morn when GR rises from his pit, some people have blatantly stepped across the line.
Wow... just wow. I shall start by saying i really do feel for the OP. I'd be gutted if it happend to me and it only serves really to make people more wary of 'noobs' rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt, we were all 'noobs' once.
Secondly i think Max needs to take a look at their own value system. Simply allowing access to something does not imply in any way that you are free to take everything out of it and do a runner. The OP already said that he stated nothing was to be taken out of it unless owned by the person. So although he had access he did NOT have permission to take out the stuff. There is a subtle yet distinct difference between the two.
Thirdly i think this was very calculated. Obviously this person planned to do this from the beginning, as was made obvious by the fact they wanted 'more access' very early on and infact were close to making an issue out of it. He's probably given the stuff to his own or an Sg an alt is in and quite frankly i believe he knew he was going to get away with it too. To be honest i approve of the naming and shaming. I think he should be outed for the thieving toerag he is, so he can suffer the justice of the community if not Customer Support.
Lastly to the OP, I don't think leaving the game will get you anywhere. Sure i understand your moral dilemma but you effect change from the inside not with a one man boycott. By leaving you are letting this person win. They wanted you to get upset and leave, makes things alot simpler and allows them to get away with even more. I doubt you will ever get your stuff back, i know thats wrong but it's just how it is. Don't let this one idiot ruin 3 1/2 years of good times, and possibly another 3 1/2 years of more fun.
Don't let them win.
The above is only my opinion, please don't hate me for it
SG: Suicidal Maniacs @Aurealis
GhostRaptor: Server populations have been trending upwards since Issue 13 release. There are no current plans for any server mergers and we're looking forward to Issue 14 and the rest of the year.
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Thinking about it it is rather odd staff should encourage you to do this
[/ QUOTE ]Part of several of NCSoft customer support's standard replies is: [ QUOTE ]
Please note that in addition to writing us, you should always feel free to post your constructive opinions/feedback/suggestions on the City of Heroes/Villains message boards at http://uk.boards.cityofheroes.com and http://uk.boards.cityofvillains.com , where your fellow players and the dev team will be able to view them first hand. Thanks again!
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This is SO not about Revenge lol, though I definitely feel betrayed. this is about people who do wrong things HAVING to answer for them in an applicable manner...
[/ QUOTE ]Which is different from revenge...how exactly?
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If you honestly think someone stealing by the rules is acceptable
[/ QUOTE ]If it's done by the rules, of course it's acceptable. Whether the rules should be changed is another issue altogether.