Time to Rework the HEAT.

I think alot of people will agree with me on this one, when we look at the HEAT and the VEAT, it's no problem to say that the VEAT has no doubt been favorized.

The HEAT's can hardly solo, they are pretty much a poor copy of most heroes other AT's, they cant DPS, but not as much as a blaster, The die faster then a troller, they can tank like a tanker, though they can not hold aggro in bigger groups as easy as tanker.

Then we got the VEAT, I dont know to much about the Crab soldiers, but i know a bit about the Widows, Widows does very good damage, they got a Mag 4 Mez power, wich easy can be made spamable, I'v seen widows take down 2-3 heroes solo, cause they could use a Mez power WHILE they still could tear them apart with over average Melee Damage.

List of Balanced:

HEAT - VEAT
Low Hit Points | Medium Hitpoints
Medium Damage | Medium Damage
Weakness to Quantum | No Weakness
Starts with Traveling | Dont start with Traveling
Limited power Choice | No limited power Choice
Unable to choose an Epic Power Pool | Able to choose an Epic Power Pool
Limited powers in Forms | No limited powers in "Forms" (Crab Spider Armor Ect.)
No Team Buffs | Lots of Team Buffs
Few Self Buffs | Lots of Self buffs

--

I could mention ALOT more then this, but list would be to long, the point is, the VEAT is without a doubt FAR Superior to the HEAT.

Alone the Fact that the HEAT's powers are so "limited" makes them a bad an annoying class... They are unable to choose Traveling powers, powers like hasten can only be used in human form, they are unable to use half the powers if they are form shifters.

Form Shifting is the Unique thing about the HEAT, so what i wonder is why there is NO focus on the forms... They cant use hasten, ALL buffs get disabled, even buffs like Health and Stamina.

A VEAT can boost there Armor "Forms" with stuff like Health and Stamina, but a HEAT Cant... It is clear that the creators have favorised the Villains far higher then heroes.

I personaly hope we will see some improvement in the future, some improvments to make the HEAT more... Epic...

Inherent Powers:

HEAT, The HEATs Inherent is a power MADE for team play, in solo PVP Arena and so a like this power is 100% USELESS.

VEAT, The VEAT's inherent power is one that passivly increases Regen and Recovery rate, there by making it perfect for Team Play, Solo and PVP.


HEATs/VEATs in Teams:

A VEAT in a team is a good addiction, cause they can do decent damage, Hold enemies, and even buff there team to support them even more.

A HEAT in a team, can do low damage with limited attacks, They can't buff, a PB can heal and a WS can hold, but not NEAR enough fo it to be worth anything.


So we come to the conclusion, that VEAT is no only Superior in Solo and PVP, even in teams they are Superior to the HEAT.

So the final Conclusion is: It's Time for a Rework of the HEAT.

Let me hear people's comments on this matter.

-Insanitor.

---

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I applaud your well spoken (well, typed) argument, and it does indeed apear that the Hero Epic ArchType do need some love.

Give them love I say!

---

I can't comment on the comparison between Hero and Villain Epics, as I've not yet got a villain to 50 (it took me long enough to get a hero there). However, I share some of your sentiments regarding the Hero Epics.

To be honest, after all the slog of getting Robo to 50, I was expecting the 'reward' - the unlockable Epics - to be a bit more, well, Epic.

Now, I've not gotten either the WS or PB I rolled above lvl10 yet, so perhaps there's more to discover, but I don't enjoy playing them. To be honest, I don't see much difference between either really - both are fairly (at least at their current levels) mediocre blasters, with some self buff, and slight melee powers. The form/shape shifting thing is a neat trick, but the novelty soon wore off on me.

My biggest grief with the hero epics though is the fixed powersets - there's not much room for experimentation when rolling either a PB or WS. If you team with a PB/WS, then you pretty much know what you're going to get (at the low levels at least). If you team with a tank, you're going to get all sorts of potential combinations of powers (for example)


Although, that's just my own opinion based on my limited experience with the ATs. Others may have found the spec of these to be more fun, or have stuck with it, and are reaping rewards to be found at the higher levels.

---

Cheers, @RoboTank

Robotank Inv Tank
Cloudwalker MA Scrapper
Shadowcall Dark Stalker
Stone Death Stone Controller
Solaise Fire Blaster
Confession Dark Blaster


Sent from my HAL 9000

I haven't played the VEATs yet so can't comment, but I've had a WS and PB for a long time, leveling both into the 40s, and just find them a bit to vague as an archetype.

I love the stuff in this game so feel a bit guilty being negative about a subject as big as a whole class, but I agree with a comment on HEATs that I've heard many times - the power sets make them a jack of all trades, master of nowt. Which doesn't make them much fun to play in my experience.

Sorry!

---

idont think the hero epics are quite as bad as that for instance the shifted for is all about being that form and the ability to tranforms is a slottable power of its own and the way you slot that power directly effects everything that works in that spasific form for instance in squidy form you can buff recovery and to hit probibly more but cant remember to be honest. so once properly slotted squidy cna make a decent balster type able to deal alot of damage rther easily.

then dwarf a prity damb good tank form ye its limited on attacs but the ones it dose have properly sloted make for grabing agro and holding it very easy giving team mates a nice chance to take mobs out at low risk

as for the human form you choose your powers wisely and you can make a bloody great toon with decent damage at close range thats more than able to pvp and pve one of my best pvp toons being a human form pb.

the big problem i feel witht the hero epics is on thing slots to build a decent alround toon out of it that is a truely jack of all trades there just isnt enuff slot choices to make sure your powers are used at there very best

---

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That's right Scotlands_Bru, you can slot the forms to make them better...

The only problem is, the forms only effect themself... so compared..

The HEAT forms has 6 slots, they can put improvments in, and ofcouse there attacks.

The VEAT "forms" Has 6 slots, they can get stamina, Health, Self/Team Buffs and ofcouse there attacks.

So the Nova and Dwarf forms are VERY Restricted, cause you can ONLY improve the forms and there attacks, you cant improve them futher with health and stamina Ect.

Even the first power in our HEAT Aura set, the one giving passiv +def is disabled when we are in our Forms.

They even went as far as to disable our Inherent power while we're formed.

The HEAT really needs to be able to use alot of it's powers in shifted form, like shields, inherent, passiv powers, Hasten.

All buffs should be able in the forms, Except light form ofcouse.

Only thing im not 100% sure of is, if a Widow/Crab Soldier losses there armor if mezed like our HEATs does, but as far as i know they dont.

---

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Insanitor, VEAT's wear their armor so afaik they don't lose the effects such as the 'Bane Spiders Armor Upgrade's +20% Max HP.

---

I'm more of a solo player and i find it a lot harder to solo with my PB than i did with my blaster. My bane spider on the other hand can easily solo and with the help of a few purple insps i can take down most elite bosses easily.

HEAT's story arcs are definitely a lot better though.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Insanitor, VEAT's wear their armor so afaik they don't lose the effects such as the 'Bane Spiders Armor Upgrade's +20% Max HP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another addition then to my point, to take down a lets say PB in Dwarf form, all you have to do is get it Mezed so our form is turned off, there by we loss all our defense and are killed in 2 hits..

A buff is a Buff, so there armor should turn off just like our forms do...

But it's just yet another proff that the VEAT has been highly favorised...

---

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Sorry, I'm going to do that annoying thing where I quote someone's post and take each piece apart. I'm a nice person really.

[ QUOTE ]
I think alot of people will agree with me on this one, when we look at the HEAT and the VEAT, it's no problem to say that the VEAT has no doubt been favorized.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find both Kheldians and the Soldiers evenly matched, personally, but I realise this is a rhetorical statement.

[ QUOTE ]
The HEAT's can hardly solo, they are pretty much a poor copy of most heroes other AT's,

[/ QUOTE ]

This is, unless the planets have realigned, WAI. They're jack of all trades.

[ QUOTE ]
they cant DPS, but not as much as a blaster,

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, have you SEEN a level 50 WS with double Mire and Nova form?

[ QUOTE ]
The die faster then a troller,

[/ QUOTE ]

My Peacebringer is very surviveable, and I can always fall back on Dwarf form.

[ QUOTE ]
they can tank like a tanker, though they can not hold aggro in bigger groups as easy as tanker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right here, but this comes under the jack of all trades argument. Furthermore, with proper slotting to the dwarf they could be "Main tank". You'd gimp the rest of your build, though.

[ QUOTE ]
Then we got the VEAT,

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is completely different to the HEAT.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont know to much about the Crab soldiers, but i know a bit about the Widows, Widows does very good damage, they got a Mag 4 Mez power,

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it's mag 3, actually.

[ QUOTE ]
wich easy can be made spamable, I'v seen widows take down 2-3 heroes solo, cause they could use a Mez power WHILE they still could tear them apart with over average Melee Damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming this refers to PvP, which I don't know much about and TBH don't personally care for, so I'll not comment.

[ QUOTE ]
I could mention ALOT more then this, but list would be to long, the point is, the VEAT is without a doubt FAR Superior to the HEAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this argument flawed. The HEAT isn't the VEAT. They're different animals, both team players but very different in what they do.

[ QUOTE ]
Alone the Fact that the HEAT's powers are so "limited" makes them a bad an annoying class... They are unable to choose Traveling powers, powers like hasten can only be used in human form, they are unable to use half the powers if they are form shifters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong, actually. They can't take Teleport pools or Flight pools. I personally think this is slightly silly, but the point remains. Hasten is actually IMMENSELY popular, as clicky buffs carry on to forms. Simply hit hasten, Nova, and away!

[ QUOTE ]
Form Shifting is the Unique thing about the HEAT, so what i wonder is why there is NO focus on the forms... They cant use hasten, ALL buffs get disabled, even buffs like Health and Stamina.

[/ QUOTE ]

To compensate both forms have enhanced end recovery. Most people just don't slot it.

[ QUOTE ]
A VEAT can boost there Armor "Forms" with stuff like Health and Stamina, but a HEAT Cant... It is clear that the creators have favorised the Villains far higher then heroes.


[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly don't think so.

[ QUOTE ]
I personaly hope we will see some improvement in the future, some improvments to make the HEAT more... Epic...

[/ QUOTE ]

I too hope for improvements to my favourite AT, however, I think you've fallen into the trap of thinking "Epic" means "Powerful". Hero ATs aren't godmode. They're CoH on hard, they require a LOT of thinking to play right. WSs positively RIP through enemies at higher levels, at a rate even the best VEATs would struggle to match, and Peacebringers are the ultimate team fallback. They're just different from the VEATs.

[ QUOTE ]
Inherent Powers:

HEAT, The HEATs Inherent is a power MADE for team play, in solo PVP Arena and so a like this power is 100% USELESS.


[/ QUOTE ]

They're made for teams. Solo, you can use forms. I certainly agree it could use fixing, but it's far from useless.

[ QUOTE ]
VEAT, The VEAT's inherent power is one that passivly increases Regen and Recovery rate, there by making it perfect for Team Play, Solo and PVP.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give, it's a useful inherant.

[ QUOTE ]
HEATs/VEATs in Teams:

A VEAT in a team is a good addiction, cause they can do decent damage, Hold enemies, and even buff there team to support them even more.

A HEAT in a team, can do low damage with limited attacks, They can't buff, a PB can heal and a WS can hold, but not NEAR enough fo it to be worth anything.


[/ QUOTE ]

The WS shouldn't really be holding. He should be double miring then swapping to Nova and one shotting entire mobs. The peacebringer's heal is a secondary ability, used on the Tank if the team's struggling or whatever. He can also tank, blast (And just to remind you, Nova used to be better damage than blasters) and melee hold. I'll give the duration isn't long, but he isn't a controller so I'm happy his hold's not as good.

[ QUOTE ]
So we come to the conclusion, that VEAT is no only Superior in Solo and PVP, even in teams they are Superior to the HEAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to have to disagree there. I think Khelds have a steep learning curve, and they need to be played well to succeed on any level at all, but they're certainly not BAD.

[ QUOTE ]
So the final Conclusion is: It's Time for a Rework of the HEAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

A small buff, maybe, but no rework. They're a hard AT to master, and they could use a little love, but just because the VEAT is out doesn't suddenly make them useless.

---

Its worth noting that many of the arguements hear were voiced at i12s launch. The VEAT afaik was made the way it is in part due to feedback from people regarding the HEAT being lacklustre in most peoples eyes. The gimmick of the HEAT is its switching forms to gain different powers, which is a genius concept but has not been 100% effectively deployed. What I reckon they should do to bring them a bit more up is slightly modify the simple fact that passive buffs are deactivated during other forms. This simple buff would mean that theres a much wider scope for their effectiveness across the board.

Now regarding the mezs knock off ya shields - same applies for VEATs guys - its just most VEATs take 2-3 passive shield powers (most cases 1 for def, 2 for res) so they always work. When mez'd ya lose everything else buff wise - dunno where people get the idea this isn't the case from. Plus ya can't really compare the 2 directly as they both work and have powers that aren't even remotely similar. But, I do think the HEATs needed a change a good long while.

Its also worth noting that heroes have been somewhat heavily favoured on the epics front for a tad long as the HEATs have been around for a substantially long time, and now the VEATs are here 5mins everyones moaning the HEAT isn't as good as they think the VEATs are. Each VEAT has plenty of substantial flaws.

I would also think it'd be a good idea to keep the HEAT inherent as it is but add a small buff to it to make them at least maybe able to solo (its also worth remembering some ATs are designed to not be great solo - although having an Epic like that is a daft idea imo). Something like 5% HP would suffice, as along with the ability to use passive buffs like Health and Stamina, they'd be somewhat more effective. Plus also means the slotting of the forms themselves can be more usefully chosen. Also regarding pvp - 1 of my toughest opponents ever was a WS so I wouldn't say they are all that bad. Plus the new changes I've suggested would make them that bit more appealing.

---

The data quoted is actually rather missleading.

[ QUOTE ]
Low Hit Points | Medium Hitpoints

[/ QUOTE ]

They acually have very similer base HP, with keldians having high hp in dwarf form. VEATs have fewer base hp than blasters, which are discribed as "low" hp.

[ QUOTE ]
Weakness to Quantum | No Weakness

[/ QUOTE ]

Quantum damage has been nerfed to oblivion.


[ QUOTE ]
Limited power Choice | No limited power Choice

[/ QUOTE ]

This is totaly missleading, since VEATs don't get free travel powers, and there is only one power keldians are locked out of that is actually any good (Air Supreiority).


[ QUOTE ]
Unable to choose an Epic Power Pool | Able to choose an Epic Power Pool

[/ QUOTE ]

A non issue, both epic ATs have suffient power choices that they don't really benefit from APPs/PPPs.

[ QUOTE ]

Limited powers in Forms | No limited powers in "Forms" (Crab Spider Armor Ect.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Nonsense. VEATs simply don't have forms, they are not comparable.

[ QUOTE ]
No Team Buffs | Lots of Team Buffs

[/ QUOTE ]

Not comparable, keldians get more attacks and controls, and better resistance shields. So what.

[ QUOTE ]
Few Self Buffs | Lots of Self buffs

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. Keldians get as many good self buffs as VEATs.

[ QUOTE ]
the VEAT is without a doubt FAR Superior to the HEAT.



[/ QUOTE ]

I would dispute this, the VEAT is marginally better and a lot easier to play.

[ QUOTE ]
They cant use hasten

[/ QUOTE ]


They can, they just can't activate it while shifted.

[ QUOTE ]
ALL buffs get disabled

[/ QUOTE ]

No buffs get disabled.

[ QUOTE ]
A VEAT can boost there Armor "Forms"

[/ QUOTE ]

VEATs don't get forms. Crab/Bane choice is more realistically compared to a choice of primary/secondary that can be respeced.

[ QUOTE ]
make the HEAT more... Epic...

[/ QUOTE ]

In CoX epic = unique storyline, not more powerful.


[ QUOTE ]
HEAT, The HEATs Inherent is a power MADE for team play, in solo PVP Arena and so a like this power is 100% USELESS.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol-PvP

[ QUOTE ]
The VEAT's inherent power is one that passivly increases Regen and Recovery rate, there by making it perfect for Team Play, Solo and PVP.


[/ QUOTE ]

But the base end cost of all VEAT powers was increased when conditioning was added, so it actually gives no benefit whatsoever. It's a token inherent for an AT that doesn't really have one.

[ QUOTE ]
A HEAT in a team, can do low damage with limited attacks

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you have never seen a well played keldian. My PB easiliy outdamages my bane spider in large teams, and it can solo EBs more easily too.

[ QUOTE ]
So the final Conclusion is: It's Time for a Rework of the HEAT.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your conclusion, but it would be stronger if you had used fewer half truths and missleading statistics in order to reach it.

---

I really should do something about this signature.

im with praf on this one i agree that the heats do need looking at to be tweeked but there not in any way less of an At than veat having played both pb and ws as well as a crab a bane and a widow i have to admit i still prefer my human form pb above them all the damage was great in a packed team it spent its time performing crowd control with a number of aoe and ranged while using its few melee attacks to keep straglers of the squishs. but not having the forms it ment slots were never a problem so had all my powers slotted very nicely by the early 30s and because of that it was the took that actuly changed my mind about pvp something i wasnt to bothered about but now enjoy quite often

the bigist problem is that the learning curve with heats is so high you need to leanr fast first how you would like to use it then how to slot it properly for that use by sticking to a jack of all trades you do end up with it slightly lack luster but played skillfuly it still works great.

the final thing i have to say is the most amazing team i ever played was an all heat team in all most half the time i would normal lvl to 30 we got an entire team od 8 there np with limited deaths normaly because one of us werent paying atention and the damage was amazing i sugest trying something like that once before slating the entire AT the it has been

---

There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's

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Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50

Ok I concede,

But, in my opinion the following changes (if made) should fix almost all of the HEAT issues.

HEAT's should:
1. Not have their innate and auto powers disabled.
2. Have access to 'Air Superiority' PB and 'Hover' WS.
3. I suggest.. Gain additional form only enhancement slots.

---

Suggestion follows:
HEAT shapeshifters have 4 Nova form only powers and 6 additional Dwarf form only powers, that makes a total of 10 form specific powers without gaining any additional enhancement slots if they take both forms.

Form only slots would allow for additional customization without having to drop a form to save slots.

I would like to suggest adding these to the forms as follows...

Add 2 additional form only enhancement slots in addition to the standard generic enhancement slots at levels:
Nova - 7, 9, 11, 15
Dwarf - 21, 23, 25, 27, 29, 31

---

Notes:
These are form power specific enhancement slots not for the shapeshifts themselves which use a normal power slot.

These would only be slotable in the corresponding form's powerslots.
(No dwarf form = No dwarf form additional enhancement slots.)

They would not affect the HEAT's ability to use additional standard enhancement slots on these powers.

---

I always thought the term 'epic' was a bad choice. About the only 'epic' aspect of Kheldians is the innate trvael powers, which is kind of negated when you can get a Raptor Pack within 5 minutes of entering King's Row.

Kheldians are an 'advanced' AT. They aren't as easy to play as the normal hero ATs. They are designed to provide a challenge. I guess the VEATs indicate that CoV players (and presumably a fair number of CoH players) don't want a challenge.

---

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

I've seen a few HEAT vs VEAT threads and must admit I was curious as to how they compared. I don't have access to a VEAT but just looking at Mids, I couldn't see any huge advantage to them. I even got my PB out (who I'd not played in a very long time) and joined a Pug last night to remind myself how they played.

Personally I think each of the powers just need looking at and tweaking for both WS and PB rather than big general changes for both because they do play differently. I can only really comment on PBs but for instance doubling the buff time for Build Up. That would increase human DPS and give a bit of an increase to the forms as well. Maybe allow Dwarf to use Build Up without having to go human (as that isn't always an option mid fight). It won't turn dwarf into a killing machine but would help some of the long grinding fights, especially when solo.

Solar Flare is a good attack but should be knockdown so as not to annoy your teammates. Same goes for Dawn Strike really - whilst it's fun to throw mobs all over the place, it's only a mid power nuke and slows things down with having to round everything up again. Photon Seekers could do with a bit of a damage buff - at least let each be able to kill a minion. I'm sure there are more.

---

[ QUOTE ]

Not comparable, keldians get more attacks and controls, and better resistance shields. So what.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, we have shields... Self buffs, wich can only be used in human form.

[ QUOTE ]

Not true. Keldians get as many good self buffs as VEATs.


[/ QUOTE ]

Except, they are only SELF buffs, kheldians dont have a single Team buff.
[ QUOTE ]

They can, they just can't activate it while shifted.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wich i also mentioned, but if you're in the middle of a fight, have a few mez powers on your dwarf, you cant just switch out to use hasten, cause then you get mezed.


[ QUOTE ]

No buffs get disabled.


[/ QUOTE ]

All our shields, our passive powers, such as health, stamina Ect. are disabled when we're shapeshifted.

[ QUOTE ]

But the base end cost of all VEAT powers was increased when conditioning was added, so it actually gives no benefit whatsoever. It's a token inherent for an AT that doesn't really have one.


[/ QUOTE ]

It gives 2% more recovery, wich is quite alot, also they are able to stack it up with stamina and sets... a Kheldian can only get higher recovery in forms by putting +End Mod in forms and by getting set bonus'

[ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you have never seen a well played keldian. My PB easiliy outdamages my bane spider in large teams, and it can solo EBs more easily too.


[/ QUOTE ]

But compared to other classes, most would rather find a blaster... when i played my PB, i offen asked for teams, but been rejected cause they need damage and would rather find a blaster... My PB's attacks are set up with +dmg and +acc, my PB is lvl 45, and yet, the damage my blaster did lvl 35 was even higher...

[ QUOTE ]

I agree with your conclusion, but it would be stronger if you had used fewer half truths and missleading statistics in order to reach it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are the half truths... A PB/WS can pretty much just tank and DPS... but it would be alot better for the team to find a blaster or tanker... cause they can easyly outmatch a kheldian...

The villain ATs however can be very good for teams, alone just on the fact that they can support the team more then a Kheldian ever is able too..

---

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[ QUOTE ]
Where are the half truths... A PB/WS can pretty much just tank and DPS... but it would be alot better for the team to find a blaster or tanker... cause they can easyly outmatch a kheldian...

[/ QUOTE ]

But neither can do a half good job at both, which Khelds can, thats what they always been, very adaptive.

VEATS dont bring anything special to a team bar a few buffs either.

I found both my khelds and veats a bit under-whelming to be honest.

---

[ QUOTE ]
1. Not have their innate and auto powers disabled.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. As said on other threads on this topic, Nova form gains minimal befefit from the inherent damage buff (becase it already gets one from the form, pushing it up near the cap), but a massive benefit, to the extent of being overpowered from a mez resistance or resistance buff. Dwarf form only benefits significantly from a damage buff. This puts even greater enphasis on having a specific team make up.

This is not the change keldians need.

[ QUOTE ]
2. Have access to 'Air Superiority' PB and 'Hover' WS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, who cares about these? Keldians get lots of other good powers to choose from.

Again, not the buff they need.

[ QUOTE ]
3. I suggest.. Gain additional form only enhancement slots.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I suggested the following pool power (open to all, not just keldians).

Advanced Training Pool

1) +3 enhancement slots
2) +3 enhancement slots
3) +3 enhancement slots
4) +3 enhancement slots


Ok, so what changes are needed:

as discussed elswhere:

1) Nova form should not detoggle when mezzed. If not possible, then nova form shoud gan mag 2 protection from sleep, stun and hold.

2) Dwarf form attacks should have a taunt component.

3) Raise damage and max hp caps.

4) Cosmic Balance/Dark Sustenance should give +1 mag mez protection for each teammate of any AT. Controllers and Doms should give damage/resistance bonus.

---

I really should do something about this signature.

S'funny... My PB (a triform) is pretty much a mini-tankmage and kicks the <bleep> out of anything stupid enough to get in her way. Solo she kicks bum; teamed, with the correct team makeup, she shreds everything and can even face down an AV whilst the rest of the team recovers.

Whenever there's a Rikti raid, I have NEVER been faceplanted, yet I've seen tanks, blasters, trollers, the lot, get taken out. Mainly because they don't have access to the mixture of resistance, damage and heals Khelds do. They key is to know when to backup, shift form, and go back in. It only takes a couple of seconds, and then you're back in the action. With the right team, I don't even worry about getting my shields up right away, and since the quantum nerf, I don't even have to worry about them either.

You're making the mistake of comparing Khelds with regular AT's. A common mistake because you CAN'T really compare them. They're not like ANY other AT in the game and require actual tactics to play successfully. OK, so they can't buff team mates; but neither can many other AT's, so that point really isn't that relevant.

Ravenswing is right in that the title of "epic AT" really isn't appropriate. They're an advanced AT, that puts CoH into "hard" mode and require a lot more thought than your regular button mashing techniques. For me, they are my most favourite of AT, way above any of the others.

---

@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[ QUOTE ]
kheldians dont have a single Team buff.


[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, niether do scrappers!!!!

BUFF scrappers.


Honestly, you are coparing apples and turnips here. They don't have the same powers becauses they are not the same. they only thing they have in common is they are both unlocked by reaching level 50.

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you cant just switch out to use hasten, cause then you get mezed.


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Why do you need to? Dwarf form has plenty of powers to make an attack chain when slotted.

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All our shields, our passive powers, such as health, stamina Ect. are disabled when we're shapeshifted.


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They arn't disabled, you just cant use them. Any click buff, including Eclipse and Mire, and buffs from teammakes, and buffs form sets cotinue to operate.

In dwarf form, your shields don't operate because they are replaced by stronger ones and you shouldn't need Stamina with a decient build.

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It gives 2% more recovery

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But the end costs of VEAT powers where increased to compensate, leaving them worse off than before the inherent was added.

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But compared to other classes, most would rather find a blaster

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True, but this is a faliure of concept (PUGs prefer specialists to JoTs). Any change wich leaves keldians better than blasters/tankers would make them overpowered.

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My PB's attacks are set up with +dmg and +acc, my PB is lvl 45, and yet, the damage my blaster did lvl 35 was even higher...

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Of course it is, because you blaster doesn't have shields, the ability to turn into a tanker, free flight, a god mode power or mez protection with the right team mates.

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Where are the half truths...

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I refer you to my earlier post (al;though half truth is being generous).

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A PB/WS can pretty much just tank and DPS... but it would be alot better for the team to find a blaster or tanker... cause they can easyly outmatch a kheldian...


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Sure, this is true, but thats not what you said in your original post.

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The villain ATs however can be very good for teams,

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Sure, the VEATs are better conceived and designed, but they are not more powerful. Any change to keldians that enables them to damage as well as a blaster or tank as well as a tanker would make blasters and tankers pointless.

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I really should do something about this signature.

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2) Dwarf form attacks should have a taunt component.


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Agreed on every other issue, but don't Dwarves get a taunt on their attacks anyway? I've certainly noticed things turning round and hitting me when I thwonk them on the head with my meaty lobster fists.

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2. Have access to 'Air Superiority' PB and 'Hover' WS.

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Meh, who cares about these? Keldians get lots of other good powers to choose from.

Again, not the buff they need.

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'Hover' would help with the Warshades 'Teleport' power, removing the 2 second to teleport or you fall effect.

'Air Superiority' seems to be constantly suggested as a good additional power, so I suggested giving it to Peacebringers in leu of the Warshades getting 'Hover', especially as Peacebringers get 'Fly' as their innate travel power.

So my suggestion regarding these was perfectly valid, especially if they had the following benefits:
PB: 'Air Sup' Human and Nova forms. (Maybe Dwarf too.)
WS: 'Hover' Human and Dwarf forms.

So thanks AGAIN for the 'NON' constructive comments Praf68, Just because you wish you were a CoX designer.. You ain't btw!
Oh and as you dissed my suggestion:
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Yes. I suggested the following pool power (open to all, not just Kheldians).

Advanced Training Pool

1) +3 enhancement slots
2) +3 enhancement slots
3) +3 enhancement slots
4) +3 enhancement slots

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Absolutely sucks if you're a HEAT, because you would be making every other AT even stronger!

Advanced Training Pool = HEAT NERF!

BTW I corrected your spelling of 'keldians'.

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I've seen a few HEAT vs VEAT threads and must admit I was curious as to how they compared.

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Well, I have a level 50 human/dwarf PB, and a level 42 bane spider.

So here is a breakdown:

Suvivability: PB wins easily.

Damage: PB does better on big teams, bane does better on small teams or solo.

Team buffages: Bane wins, but not by that much as my PB has the leadership pool.

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I really should do something about this signature.

PB's have got a decent single target heal too if i remember rightly.

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