There's "Corpse-Dancing" from both sides. Usually people who do it are new to PvP thinking that every hero/villain is as strong as an EB.
Yeah, about Stalkers. One night I was PvPing for 3 hours total, got +0 reputation, +0 bounty. All because of the killstealing Stalkers... Pfft. Whenever I have one fully debuffed and shot some blasts one comes and uses AS and says "thnkx for teh kill !!"
I think it was a bad idea to put "Stalkers are great for newcomer players" and now we have tons of Stalkers running around.
And being a villain doesn't mean you must be rude. (Points at the gloaters)
[ QUOTE ]
One night I was PvPing for 3 hours total, got +0 reputation, +0 bounty. All because of the killstealing Stalkers... Pfft. Whenever I have one fully debuffed and shot some blasts one comes and uses AS and says "thnkx for teh kill !!"
[/ QUOTE ]
Invite them to team with you - say that because all Heroes hate the Stalkers and their ubah-l33t skillz, they will resort to cheating, so it's better for the Stalkers to have someone like you as back-up.
Then, return to your base, sit back, and watch your bounty score sky-rocket 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
Erm, its a PvP Zone. If a villain sees you, they are instinctively going to attack you, that is called PvP. Its not ganking, griefing or any other word. Its a PvP zone so anything goes. Get over it and stop whining.
[/ QUOTE ]
indeed..but what if i7 goes live..if you die you get on red health/end (you know what I mean >.> now...if people are ganking near your base it will be a lot more annoying then it is now...
so or get rid of the ganking or make sure people just spawn with full health:P...
,,,,
first can't be helped so just give us full health^^..
Well here's my take on it
Ganking happens. It's not pleasant but you have to deal with it. If numbers are uneven, put a call out for reinforcements, if there are none, ask the other side if some of them want to switch alts to even the numbers up and make it a bit more challenging. The 'Guys, we're too heavily outnumbered so are ALL going to leave unless you want to even things up' announcement usually works as they realise you're about to take PvP away from them or 'This is too lopsided to be any fun for us, we're going to go to Warburg instead' will also see many of them join you there. For the record(and any red names who may be reading), Warburg would be a lot more fun if you could have mixed hero villain teams.
Personally, I've had some of my best bounty/rep nights in sirens when heavily outnumbered as a small team of two or three of us go out, knowing full well we'll be dead straight away but by selecting a target and time to attack carefully, we may kill that pesky toon before we get face planted, if not, we're at our base anyway so we can try again. Doesn't matter either way as next time i'm there, the odds may be balanced in the exact opposite way.
Stalkers pwning. Saying stalkers make the zones unbalanced when there are too many of them is pointless, too many spine/regens on the hero side have the same effect. Too many toggle dropping blappers have the same effect. I've seen just as much bragging and zone flaming from spine/regens and toggle dropping blappers as I have stalkers. The simple fact is that when certain AT's have a quite apparent edge over others, it tricks those playing them into thinking they're better at PvP than they actually are and they believe their own hype.
Sixkilla, not sure what AT you were playing against these stalkers but I've seen stalkers regularly running for the hills on Union in great numbers. Expecting to go into a PvP zone at any time and expect to have a chance against all of the builds in there is silly. I know full well which builds I can be most effective against and which I can't. Which ones I can take on one on one and which ones will need teamwork for me to take down. Maybe stalkers can take your particular build down quite easily but there will be other builds on your side they are scared witless of. If you don't have those builds in the zone at the time, that's just unfortunate but you don't see the same complaints from stalkers when the zone is suddenly full of storm defenders.
Trash talk is another matter but complaining about it on the forum is pointless and just going to end in tears. The age restriction on Co* is 12 and needs to be remembered in PvP AT ALL TIMES. Personally, if I was 12 and had access to a game like Co*, given my mentality at the time, I would have gone in those zones and created chaos just for the 'fun' of it. I'm not saying it's right or anything to be proud of but it's one of those things and people seem to forget that and fail to make exceptions for it.
I try not to react to any of it, certainly easier said than done, but I also make sure that if I've been particularly annoyed by someone, I will stay in the zone until the numbers even up then make sure I coordinate my revenge against the offenders.
In short, if it's petitionable, petition it. /petition may be like a dog with no teeth but if the person is a serial offender, action will be taken sooner or later. If it's not petitionable and you just find it annoying, ignore it or bide your time for payback.
For example, there is a well known controller on Union who's only real PvP tactic seems to be drone TP'ing. I've never had a vocal altercation with that person but whenever they turn up in a PvP zone, I will automatically coordinate attacks against them and I get more satisfaction and anger management from seeing them faceplant time and time again than I ever would by bringing it to the forums or having a futile debate with them over broadcast.
One thing is for sure though, coming on the forums and having a rant about something that is part of PvP is really not the answer as all that is going to do is split the thread into the 'for and against' and provoke exactly the sort of flaming you're trying to say you don't like in PvP
Here's another thought for you. Once the 'going rogue' system is in place and we have stalkers on both sides of the wall, will we see the same complaints about certain 'uber' builds once they are available to all?
[ QUOTE ]
Here's another thought for you. Once the 'going rogue' system is in place and we have stalkers on both sides of the wall, will we see the same complaints about certain 'uber' builds once they are available to all?
[/ QUOTE ]
Been thinking about the effect hero stalkers will have on the game, even thinking of building a hero anti-stalker out of a stalker, if that makes sense :S
I know one villian player who said he wouldnt play his dominator if I came into the zone with a hero stalker.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
both friday and saturday night heroes were seriously outnumbered and pushed back to the base, it was hard work trying to bust out. it was getting tp'd out of the base and then getting ganked by 4 stalkers which was probably the hardest bit to take when there were about 8-12 villains (not hidden) and 3 heroes (not hidden).
but its the same as normal, i tend to find friday/saturday/sunday are bad days for sirens, it always seems to be all one side or all the other.
as per the broadcasts, the only thing that i really see a problem is the direct insults, everything else can be ignored really.
@ExtraGonk
Okay, a few things. The first two are general in nature and aimed at everyone.
To start with, I'm concerned by some of the language being used in this thread. Attempts to avoid the language filter are against the rules on these boards, as is bad language itself. If you can't think of a way to make your point without bad language, I would strongly suggest you think harder.
From now on, posts with bad language are liable to be simply removed (which, unfortunately, will remove any replies to those posts, due to the way the board software works). I simply don't have the time to individually edit dozens of posts, especially those from regular posters who really should know better.
Likewise, it would be really nice if we could have a discussion about PvP on these boards that didn't involve flaming and other insulting or unpleasant behaviour. Once again, if you can't think of a way to make a point without being unpleasant, think harder - or don't post.
As to some of the specific points being raised...
[ QUOTE ]
It was so bad after a while, when I stopped to attack a seemingly lonesome villain, I had FOUR [4] stalkers surrounding me in the AS position. Now it goes without saying that me being a blaster, only one or maybe if I got lucky, two of the stalkers actually got in their AS before I was dead.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm curious here - what were the rest of the heroes doing while the four Stalkers went for you? Had you teamed with any of the other heroes, or gone off solo, despite being outnumbered by the villains?
[ QUOTE ]
Why isn't there moderators in the pvp zones when there OBVIOUSLY should be?
[/ QUOTE ]
Our GMs cover the entire game. You can /petition violations of the EULA (which includes a Code of Conduct) from any zone, PvP or not.
[ QUOTE ]
This is a GAME, and so there SHOULD be rules and code of conduct. Having Player versus player with no rules is ONLY laziness from the devs, and nothing more whatsoever.
[/ QUOTE ]
Erm, there are rules and a Code of Conduct. There is a mechanism to report violations of the rules (/petition) and people to enforce them (the GMs).
We're always open to suggestions, though. What exactly do you think Cryptic should do?
My suggestion:
Add 15 second Debt Protection to all player attacks.
That way, if someone gets killed by PvE mobs, fair enough, there is debt.
If someone gets killed by PvE mobs during a PvP fight, there is not.
I feel this move would remove one of the root causes of the argument. Sure, it's messing with the Risk V Reward principle and it could conceivably be abused. But:
(a) it would actually encourage more use of the PvP zones
(b) it would eliminate much of the blame culture - no harm, no foul.
(c) IT'S A GAME. A game is fun. Dealing with "Sorry mate I didn't see you were fighting" tells from apologetic villains (!) and such is not fun, and neither is clearing debt. If something is not fun, people don't do it and don't pay £9 a month for it, particularly if they haven't been with the game long enough to develop loyalty.
Herewith ends my caffeine-induced-mini-rant.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
Great answers Bridger, thx. 
I think the thread of Kinslayer is perfect in explaying facts in PvP. When I started PvP in here with my stalker, I thought heroes were invincible. Then I realized that they just had a gd teamworking. So I started to play in a team, helping mates and being helped.
If I'm the only villain in siren's I accept to be ganked: it's PvP, that's all.
3 days ago I logged in Siren's after few days of holidays, found some new heroes never seen before, and when i killed some of them they started to tell me: "Here the n00b stalker is! Ah of course you are Italian.... and stuff like this". I just petitioned them, but didn't start a discussion.
This is a game, take it like that and enjoy it. Some days you will gank and others you will be ganked
[ QUOTE ]
We're always open to suggestions, though. What exactly do you think Cryptic should do?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not a dig at the GM's in any respect Bridger but I think something needs to be done to publicise what happens when people send petitions.
I know that individual cases can't be made public but there is a strong feeling among the community that petitioning people has little or no effect. The amount of times I've warned people using bad language that they will be petitioned only to get a reply back along the lines of "So, what that doesn't do anything".
I've petitioned several people in the past and have been in situations where repeat offenders have been regularly petitioned but there has been no visible action taken. To this day, I have no idea what sort of action the GM's can take and how often they do take those actions.
Also, some more clear cut guidelines on what IS petitionable and what isn't. I know every case should be evaluated on it's own merit but I'm also guessing the GM's can only go on what they see in the chat logs for that petition. If this is something that has been long running, it may seem the comment made that leads to the petition is fairly harmless but if it's something that's been going on for a while, it could just be the straw that broke the camel's back.
For instance, is it considered a petitionable offence when someone uses arena as their own private chat channel? I'm not talking the odd question but when people quite happily spend lengths of time holding general conversations on there and are often repeat offenders(I think everyone on Union can name 3 people renowned for doing this)
Does someone have to swear at you in a PvP zone for it to be petitionable? I've seen people being pretty nasty with what are only very subtle remarks but the actions they are carrying out at the same time are what make them so nasty. Surely GM's can only look at the chat logs and see what is there rather than what's happening in the zone at that time?
The upshot of this is that many people just do not bother sending petitions as they see it as a pointless waste of time. I know you always advocate us sending them but until we know what action can be taken and how often it IS taken, people are a lot more likely to flout the rules or retaliate in kind.
Is each petition looked at individually or does past petition history come into it?
Some sort of published figures which show that in period Z, X number of harassment petitions were raised of which Y were dismissed, Q resulted in warnings and W resulted in action taken.
[ QUOTE ]
Likewise, it would be really nice if we could have a discussion about PvP on these boards that didn't involve flaming and other insulting or unpleasant behaviour. Once again, if you can't think of a way to make a point without being unpleasant, think harder - or don't post.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's the nature of the beast; PVP begets trash-talking, and trash-talking spills over into the forums, and drag the entire community down... Just have a look at the WoW forums sometime.
[ QUOTE ]
Here's another thought for you. Once the 'going rogue' system is in place and we have stalkers on both sides of the wall, will we see the same complaints about certain 'uber' builds once they are available to all?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think so. Heroes will complain about scrappers and blasters (at least the squishies will ), and Villains will complain about the stalkers and the brutes. On the bright side, with all AT's available to both sides, even in a less abundant number, it might be a bit more likely to break out of those mood-breaking deadlock hours in PVP.
It'll be interesting to see what people think, once they are forced to face some of their own AT's in combat. I think it'll be a rude awakening for a lot of us, and hopefully that might cause a bit more peace on the PVP front? Wishful thinking, yeah, I know 
[ QUOTE ]
We're always open to suggestions, though. What exactly do you think Cryptic should do?
[/ QUOTE ]
I am fairly sure that everyone who PVPs would appreciate the health points and regen rates of all of MY characters to be akin to those of the AVs in RV (just mine and no one else though )
But seriously, kill the debt and the XP from the zones and the influx would be much higher as people could come and unwind after a hard days grind without bhaving to worry about killing the debt the next day.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
It was so bad after a while, when I stopped to attack a seemingly lonesome villain, I had FOUR [4] stalkers surrounding me in the AS position. Now it goes without saying that me being a blaster, only one or maybe if I got lucky, two of the stalkers actually got in their AS before I was dead.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm curious here - what were the rest of the heroes doing while the four Stalkers went for you? Had you teamed with any of the other heroes, or gone off solo, despite being outnumbered by the villains?
[/ QUOTE ]
A common problem - all players should realize that PvP on your own is NOT fun - 'cos the enemy will always pick off lone opponents as it's so easy.
If you don't want to team, then at least stick close to others on your side, where you can help them, and they can help you.
And Gonkeh, you did ok
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
I spent quite some time in Siren's last night on Defiant, as a hero. In the beginning the sides were pretty much the same numbers, the hero side being slightly outnumbered and consisting of a couple of scrappers, a tanker and a couple of blasters. We held our own pretty
well, but the sheer number of stalkers made it very hard. There were at least as many stalkers as there were heroes combined, plus a small asortment of other villain AT's (iirc there were one dominator, a corruptor and a brute).
It is very hard to get anything done when every time you attack you are standing still long enough to be AS'ed, and every time you get AS'ed there's AT LEAST two stalkers doing it, so there is NO WAY you can survive, even as a scrapper. I say this was pretty evenly matched, because it was the most matched fighting that happened all night.
After an hour or so, the heroes numbers hadn't changed, a couple people leaving due to the severe number of stalkers, and a few new faces coming in, but the number of villains had increased drastically. At this point there were 5/6 heroes, 6/7 stalkers, three MM's, a couple of dominators, corruptors and brutes. The hero side being horribly outnumbered we were pressed back into the base, with the entire cadre of villains hanging around within a couple hundred meters of the hero base. Every time we tried to break out of the base we got summarily ganked by every single villain in the zone, everyone of them wanting to throw a punch at the heroes. This is in my opinion bad enough conduct in it's own right, but then the gloating and the bragging started, the villains obviously thinking themselves teh ubar PvP'ers for bein able to keep us in the base. After a death there would be several villains gloating over the kill and standing around dancing on the corpses.
after a while, a couple of us heroes would try sneaking out and falling on the villains from behind with stealth and/or invis running, but as the stalkers get their +perception skills there were NO WAY we could have a hope in hell of surprising them. It was so bad after a while, when I stopped to attack a seemingly lonesome villain, I had FOUR [4] stalkers surrounding me in the AS position. Now it goes without saying that me being a blaster, only one or maybe if I got lucky, two of the stalkers actually got in their AS before I was dead.
And still the villains kept up the gloating, name-calling and "corpse-dancing". Is it really considered a good kill when 5 people manage to take down a single blaster? It sure seems like it, because the only villain in the whole zone that didn't participate in this was a corruptor called Dearch. Dearch, I salute you for your honor in PvP, cos there sure as [censored] isn't any other villains showing any.
And I am not exaggerating when I say there was between six and eight stalkers in the zone at the time. In the end, this was TWICE the number of heroes COMBINED. Now, the question I have is, if the stalkers are so lousy as all the people who play stalkers want us to believe, why the hell are there so many of them? The only answer I can come up with is that they ARE INFACT massively overpowered, and thus every NOOB villain is going to choose one, because they are so incredibly easy to get kills with.
Anyways, why is it generally accepted that people behave like spoiled children? Why is ganking accepted? What the hell has happened to common courtesy? Bad behaviour in PvP seems like the norm, and not the exception. Why isn't there moderators in the pvp zones when there OBVIOUSLY should be?
I used to pvp a lot, but when the new players found out how easy PvP becomes once they roll a stalker, the stalker population in the pvp zones exploded, and most of them being in my opinion BAD PEOPLE, I had no choice but to stop pvp'ing. I suffered severe withdrawals for a long long time, and finally this week I gave in and ventured into siren's again, only to discover that the problem isn't remedied, but has increased exponentially.
Ok. This probably doesn't happen every night, but it has happened three out of five nights I've been in there this week alone.
[/ QUOTE ]
YOU ARE SO RIGHT MAN!!!!I SALUTE YOU!!!!!
I believe exactly the same thing about PvP zones in COH!!!
You cant have a decent fight in this zones...
Two days ago i was killed many times in Sirens Call by three stalkers that attacked me at the same time!!!
How do you call this???I call it LAME!!!!
I have a suggestion to make...all heroes should enter PVP zones in teams...then we should see who is the boss...
[ QUOTE ]
I have a suggestion to make...all heroes should enter PVP zones in teams...then we should see who is the boss...
[/ QUOTE ]
Villians play in teams too, you know - even Stalkers - it makes them very effective
But teaming in PvP does help the squishies stay alive longer, and lets them help others.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
[ QUOTE ]
A common problem - all players should realize that PvP on your own is NOT fun
[/ QUOTE ]
Try not to invalidate my enjoyment of the PvP zones with your generalisations Personally I'd much rather run the gauntlet of a large group of villains solo then be on a team and have to put up with the loud mouthed, rude behaviour of my team mates (I've quit teams in Sirens in the past because of the rubbish being spouted on broadcast by my fellow heroes). I'm not saying that it happens a lot, but it does happen often enough to put me off joining a team with players I haven't had positive experiences with in the past.
Anyways, my scrapper is more than capable of holding his own in Sirens solo. I'm a "hit and runner" so if I get hopelessly outnumbered I'll just back off and find another angle of attack.
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A common problem - all players should realize that PvP on your own is NOT fun
[/ QUOTE ]
[color=green] Try not to invalidate my enjoyment of the PvP zones with your generalisations
[/ QUOTE ]
It's mostly the squishies I was thinking of - it can't be much fun for them to be picked on and beaten up by packs of Villians wihtout getting anywhere near the 6,000 bounty mark for a new SO
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I hope you are not talking about sweet chilli, kins. Because if you think that is her only tactic, then you haven't spent much time in the pvp zones at all.
Plus, I also mob tp too and occassionally, even kill someone all by myself. I do try not to let that happen too often though these days.
All is done perfectly within the EULA and also within what the Dev's have said about the use of drones and NPC's.
@Sweet Chilli
Amidst this torrent of flaming, internet testosterone and tomfoolery I would like to post a little anecdote about when PvPers are nice (just so newbies who havent PvP'd before arent put off it entirely right now). Just now i took my brute into Siren's Call again, trying to see if i could do a bit than my abysmal performance the night before. I couldn't but thats beside the point, i was mid duel (I say duel - i mean i was being killed as per usual) against a certain Kat/SR scrapper when the phone goes. Typing hurriedly into my chat bar to warn my teamates that my phone was ringing, i wrote "eeek phone" into what turned out to be local not team chat - whoops. Went to grab the phone and when i came back Lo and Behold i was still alive, and young Mr Talon had had the good grace to move on to another villain. Of course by the time i finished my phone call someone else had killed me, but i would like to thank Steel Talon for being a good sport and to let everyone else know that are decent people who pvp.
Im now off to see if i can sort out this ruddy build so that im slightly less squishy...grrr
@Jaw Dropper - Toons of all levels so drop me a line!
Imaginary Inc.
Twitter me!
[ QUOTE ]
I hope you are not talking about sweet chilli, kins. Because if you think that is her only tactic, then you haven't spent much time in the pvp zones at all.
Plus, I also mob tp too and occassionally, even kill someone all by myself. I do try not to let that happen too often though these days.
All is done perfectly within the EULA and also within what the Dev's have said about the use of drones and NPC's.
[/ QUOTE ]
The EULA is massively open to interpretation and even behaviour that is within the EULA itself can actually break it. A red name can say "yeah you can do that within the zone" and yet it can still breach other parts of the eula depending on what you do and its frquency, and the end result in a warning/ban. Despite popular opinion, petitions do elicit a responce.
The thing most people need to realise is that the EULA is not a hard and fast set of rules and is deliberately ambiguous so the mods can make judgement calls without breaking prescendance. Technically identicle incidents can be very different in reality and require different approaches.
best approach I say, when in doubt dont act like a [censored], cant go far wrong with that.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
there is several things i can't understand
first accept what PvP is. it's a zone where vilains and heroes confront themself.
yes, being surrounded by 4 stalkers is annoying but personnaly everytime i PvP it can't happen as heroes stay together and as it seems no they all have power to see trough hide or that break interruptible power such as AS, snipe, and heal self.
so don't go out alone nd it should not be a prob.
by the way i assure you that if you had been in the same situation but with a dominator; a brute and whatever non furtif vilain you want , it was still a 1 vs 4 so you were dead, stalker or not.
now the ganking or the bad behavior,
the thing i can't understand is that heroes complain about thing that they seems to think can be founded only in the vilain side.
i can't remember all the time i got attacked by 5 heroes at the same time and saw on the local channel "o my gad you died!"
the noob syndrome
yes stalker are a easy run for PvP "noob" but all noob are not bad player.
i personally a lot or rava regen(for exemple) that seemed to be what you call all the "noob stalker"
the insults
.yes it can be annoying but personnaly i would vote for a better "/ignore" system" than for a stronger "/petitoin one". why?
cause i think GM have more important things to do. and exept for racist one a insult is nothing. only letter that you don't even have to read if you want.
to finish, the suggestion of the 15 sec of immu of debt while in a PvP fight i thing it's a good thing cause it's true that going to PvP and coming back with 10 k of debt can ruin the fun. and it could prevent those bad bad boy that keep running in the mob when htere are going low 
[ QUOTE ]
the thing i can't understand is that heroes complain about thing that they seems to think can be founded only in the vilain side.
i can't remember all the time i got attacked by 5 heroes at the same time and saw on the local channel "o my gad you died!"
[/ QUOTE ]
If you think that heroes only think the villains do it, you're sorely mistaken. Villains often call 'gank' too. Heroes would appear to do this more, but generally because of the no-interaction nature of a 'fight' with a stalker for those who dont have strong defense/strong perception+accuracy.
[ QUOTE ]
The most important thing being, a coordinated action.
Talk with the other heroes/villains,plan what you are going to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the biggest problem in PvP - too many people look on it as a chest-beating-mine-is-bigger-than-yours-I'm gonna-take-on-the-lot-of-you-on-my-own kind of thing.
Teamwork is vital - it's the best way of introducing new players to PvP, especially if they're a little more squishy, and might get put off by the amount of times they die.
It's also the fairest way of sharing bounty (and a lot of players have no clue how bounty works, or what they can use it for), so that everyone who contributes to the team gets rewarded, so that even if you're going down a lot, you're still getting something out of the fight.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork