Extremely bad behaviour


ApacHe_AM

 

Posted

Luckily there are good cases of PvP, was in recluses victory with my MM minutes ago on the test server, had a great time despite villains being outnumbered 2/3 to 1. With a little help from the signature villains cleared the way and won, first time ive seen the villain side win. what amazes me is thatr through the entire thing there was only one case of bad manners where a villain swore after killing a particularly annoying scrapper (who gave me a run for my infamy far to often, kept double taking everywhere i went after that) a quick comment to not use that language and everything was ok.
PvP can be great for both sides when its played right. maybe some of the people i assisted in faceplanting have a different opinion, specially regarding my constant flying away with PFF and Invis. whatever works for a MM


 

Posted

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I hope you are not talking about sweet chilli, kins. Because if you think that is her only tactic, then you haven't spent much time in the pvp zones at all.

Plus, I also mob tp too and occassionally, even kill someone all by myself. I do try not to let that happen too often though these days.

All is done perfectly within the EULA and also within what the Dev's have said about the use of drones and NPC's.

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I'm not going to name the person in question as this thread is not about flaming.

Needless to say, many people see this as a cheap tactic and while those in question may think it viable, they do it knowing full well how people feel about it.

I have TP foe on one of my alts and have NEVER used it in PvP to mob or drone TP and my VG/SG's know I frown on it.

If someone uses it that way on a team i'm in, I'll make my excuses and leave the team as I don't want to be associated with that sort of behavior.

Drone TP'ing is cheap and takes no skill, anyone can do it. Mob TP'ing is just downright malicious and shows no consideration for those you're playing against. Both of these are done KNOWING it will annoy the opposition.

I will TP people to me for killing as you still have to do the work yourself but I will not use debt inflicing mobs or one hit drones to do my dirty work.

To me, that's bad behaviour.


 

Posted

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I'm not going to name the person in question as this thread is not about flaming.

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Its against forum rules anyway.


 

Posted

Whilst I personally have no quarrels with droning, if the enemy opposition is camped in mass force outside your base (and you're heavily outnumbered)... I would never throw people into mobs knowingly, and have often broken combat to help my held victim avoid debt, or at least alternate my holds upon the NPC's to keep them locked down too. I personally dont like using constant knockback to keep someone pinned against a wall. Whilst its a valid tactic, I dont like it personally, and similarly i'll leave a team if thats what they're using, or if its someone in my team, i'll ask them not to be too excessive with it. Fine, its a tactical advantage, but to hold them like that for an age and not finish them off is just downright annoying. I've been known to wormhole an enemy out of such a situation, and over to a clear spot a little way from us so they have a chance to escape or re-engage. Wormhole is useful for that, being able to place the exit of the TP away from yourself. I've saved someone from debt that way, but I also kinda suck up an NPC in the process.. was pretty close XD


 

Posted

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A common problem - all players should realize that PvP on your own is NOT fun

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[color=green] Try not to invalidate my enjoyment of the PvP zones with your generalisations

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It's mostly the squishies I was thinking of - it can't be much fun for them to be picked on and beaten up by packs of Villians wihtout getting anywhere near the 6,000 bounty mark for a new SO

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For some of us it doesn't matter Not just because I have all the SO's I need or max rep but I do like to see how well i fair sometimes. Mostly its hopeless but as long as I'm enjoying myself and the opponents don't mind my lighthearted banter at them and they seem to be enjoying themselves. Heck I'll keep at it, usually til they are bored stiff!


 

Posted

Thats right - drone tp'ing takes no skill at all. But you know what? It punishes other players mistakes. And that is just as important to do sometimes.

Drone TP'ing can give your team a massive advantage and CAN help you rack up your bounty score. Note my exact use of words there. I don't think I need to explain how it can potentially do that....anyone over a 'single digit age' should be able to work that out.

As for TP'ing into mobs, mobs are simply tools put in the zone for players to use to their advantage if they wish. IF they do not wish to use these tools then good for them. But thats no reason to critisize those that do. Its like critisizing someone for using insps.

My ethical view on mob TP'ing is the same as my view on abortion. Someone, somewhere with more knowledge and research than me has talked to like minded people and come up with an answer on this subject. I therefore go with what they say. If the dev's say mob TP'ing is ok, then I don't even need to think about it. Its ok. They dictate the rules and I play by those rules.

The second they change their mind, I follow them. No questions asked.


@Sweet Chilli

 

Posted

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As for TP'ing into mobs, mobs are simply tools put in the zone for players to use to their advantage if they wish. IF they do not wish to use these tools then good for them. But thats no reason to critisize those that do. Its like critisizing someone for using insps.

My ethical view on mob TP'ing is the same as my view on abortion. Someone, somewhere with more knowledge and research than me has talked to like minded people and come up with an answer on this subject. I therefore go with what they say. If the dev's say mob TP'ing is ok, then I don't even need to think about it. Its ok. They dictate the rules and I play by those rules.

The second they change their mind, I follow them. No questions asked.

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and heres the trick, its not a rule, its subjective and open to an individual GMs interpretation as the EULA is intended to be. Killing someone by mob TPing and intentionally causing them debt can be considered greifing as easily as using something that is "in game" as 'exploiting'. 'Proving' it was intentional is irrelevant as GM decisions are arbitrary, this is one of the few things that is clear in the EULA, and the player conflict warning of the PVP zones is not a get out clause. The GMs in the game (contratry to popular beleif) take perceived greifing petitions seriously as indeed they should.

As I said, when in doubt dont act like a [censored], and be careful not to infringe on other peoples perceptions of a [censored], just because you dont think you are being one doesnt mean a GM will agree with you.


**Acceptable "support" responses**

Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault

 

Posted

Thats why I said I am very careful when I do it and leave ABSOLUTELY no possibility that it could be taken as intentional. So there is no subjectiveness whatsoever.

Its a clear black and white case and I make sure I always come up whiter than white.

If players percieve my actions to be wrong, then thats their fault that they have interprited my actions and the rules wrongly. Just because someone might take offensive doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. Be a man. stand up for what you believe in, even if someone somewhere thinks you are wrong.

Can't spend your life worrying what everyone might think of you. Or trying to please that remaining 1% of the population.

If people think you shouldn't tp them into mobs or drones, then thats their problem. So long as I continue to come out whiter than white it doesn't matter to me or the Dev's or the GMs.


@Sweet Chilli

 

Posted

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Thats why I said I am very careful when I do it and leave ABSOLUTELY no possibility that it could be taken as intentional. So there is no subjectiveness whatsoever.

Its a clear black and white case and I make sure I always come up whiter than white.

If players percieve my actions to be wrong, then thats their fault that they have interprited my actions and the rules wrongly. Just because someone might take offensive doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. Be a man. stand up for what you believe in, even if someone somewhere thinks you are wrong.

Can't spend your life worrying what everyone might think of you. Or trying to please that remaining 1% of the population.

If people think you shouldn't tp them into mobs or drones, then thats their problem. So long as I continue to come out whiter than white it doesn't matter to me or the Dev's or the GMs.


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Thats all well and good and its nice that you have ethics strong enough not to be misinterpreted. Stating on boards that mob TPing is a viable tactic potentially endorsed by the devs is not strictly true due to cause & effect and the EULA.

As for stand up for what you beleive in, some jerks may consider deliberate greifing to be great fun and like "standing up" for their consumer rights Vs the GMs. They could consider themselves "men" for taking this stance agaisnt "authority". Clearly this wasnt what you meant but you cant account for everyone, in my veiw everything is subjective.

I personally like to live my live in black and white but I can still see all the shades of grey.


**Acceptable "support" responses**

Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault

 

Posted

Bobthedemon

I understand you may think it's perfectly viable and that's your opinion. However, my opinion is that it takes the fun out of PvP for the victim. I will never do something that may inflict debt on another player in PvP. Some people think this is tactics which is fine. As someone who PvP's on both sides, I'm more cavalier about it on my lvl 50's who debt is not a worry for than when it comes to my villain. 5 mob deaths in a PvP zone put me at the debt cap and having an hour of PvP followed by two hours of debt removal because someone thinks inflicting debt on me is a viable tactic is one of those things more likely to drive me from the zones.

Personally, I'm not in PvP to be seen as the 'uber' PvP'er, I'm in there as fighting people I know on the other side of the fence is fun and I want to promote PvP. TP'ing people into mobs or drones does not promote PvP and is not about fun, it's about using whatever tactics you can to enable you to win. Some people have that 'must win at all costs' mentality but it's really not for me.

I'd much rather be known as someone who tries to fight fairly and is considerate of fellow players than someone who can take lots of the opposition out of the fight by any means necessary.

It's because of that attitude I will not team with people who use the tactic. I'd rather fight solo and get ganked than be part of that. That's just me standing up for what I think's right just as you are standing up for the fact you believe anything goes.

The differences in attitudes can probably be summed up quite easily. For me, PvP is about playing WITH other players, for those who condone the use of any tactics it's about playing AGAINST other players.

I'd like to think my attitude makes PvP a lot more enjoyable for people than those of the other attitude but that's just my opinion

I disagree with the fact drone TP'ing punishes other peoples mistakes though. How is it punishing someones mistake that you get them in range for a split second and press a button when there's nothing they can do about it? That tends to suggest the mistake is actually going to a PvP zone where they can be targetted.


 

Posted

I have one word: Sportsmanship.

It's simply a matter of personal pride, if i defeat someone by TPing them into a warden and getting them debt than i could take no accomplishment in that. I don't know about some people in PvP, by my mother taught me manners pure and simple.


I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
But last year's bitter loving must remain

~Edna St. Vincent Millay

 

Posted

totally agree.

the tactic of debting or tping onto drones isnt a 'win' for anyone in the zone, yep i bet it provides an immediate buzz for the person perpetrating the move, however all that happens is the victim thinks 'sod this' and leaves the zone. do it enough then who are people going to fight?

forcing people to leave a zone isnt a 'win', its a total lose/lose situation and defeats the very point of pvp zones, that of player vs player.


@ExtraGonk

 

Posted

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Not a dig at the GM's in any respect Bridger but I think something needs to be done to publicise what happens when people send petitions.

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Okay, as far as I understand it, the process is as follows:

The /petition is registered by the Customer Support system and assigned a ticket number.

The system automatically generates an email based on a keyword search of the /petition, linking to articles in the Support Knowledge Base that may help with the problem.

This mail is then sent to the player who made the /petition (by default, I believe it goes to the email listed on their PlayNC Master Account).

The ticket is then added to the appropriate queue (there are several, and /petitions are sorted by type and urgency).

The GMs work through the queues, and deal with each /petition in turn. This often involves further emails being sent to the player making the /petition.

It's very important to note that, if the automated mail doesn't help, you should reply to it with further details (in the space indicated in the automated mail). This will make it much easier for the GMs give you the help you require. Likewise, if any further emails you receive don't resolve the problem, reply to them with further details.

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I know that individual cases can't be made public but there is a strong feeling among the community that petitioning people has little or no effect. The amount of times I've warned people using bad language that they will be petitioned only to get a reply back along the lines of "So, what that doesn't do anything".

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These people are sorely mistaken. Every /petition is investigated, and the appropriate action taken.

It is important to note that there's a cumulative effect for some violations. A single incident of bad language may not (depending on the exact situation) result in immediate disciplinary action, but repeat violations will end up with an account suspension, as long as they are /petitioned.

So please, if you /petition someone for a EULA violation, then see them doing the same thing at another time, /petition them again.

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I've petitioned several people in the past and have been in situations where repeat offenders have been regularly petitioned but there has been no visible action taken. To this day, I have no idea what sort of action the GM's can take and how often they do take those actions.

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The two main actions the GMs take (beyond verbal warnings given to the player in-game or short-term chat bans) are account suspensions (typically for 72 hours) and account terminations (ie, permanent bans).

According to the Senior GM I just chatted with, the GMs are currently suspending several accounts each week, on average.

If anyone ever has concerns about 'repeat offenders', please PM me the name of the player concern and the ticket numbers for the relevant /petitions you've sent, and I'll look into it.

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Also, some more clear cut guidelines on what IS petitionable and what isn't. I know every case should be evaluated on it's own merit but I'm also guessing the GM's can only go on what they see in the chat logs for that petition. If this is something that has been long running, it may seem the comment made that leads to the petition is fairly harmless but if it's something that's been going on for a while, it could just be the straw that broke the camel's back.

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I'm afraid I can't make it any more clear than the EULA (including the Code of Conduct that forms part of it). If in doubt, /petition and the GMs will investigate.

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For instance, is it considered a petitionable offence when someone uses arena as their own private chat channel? I'm not talking the odd question but when people quite happily spend lengths of time holding general conversations on there and are often repeat offenders(I think everyone on Union can name 3 people renowned for doing this)

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Personally, I would say yes - /petition them.

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Does someone have to swear at you in a PvP zone for it to be petitionable? I've seen people being pretty nasty with what are only very subtle remarks but the actions they are carrying out at the same time are what make them so nasty. Surely GM's can only look at the chat logs and see what is there rather than what's happening in the zone at that time?

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The GMs have access to logs of everything, not just chat. In cases like this, the person sending the /petition should describe the situation to make it clear what the problem is.

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The upshot of this is that many people just do not bother sending petitions as they see it as a pointless waste of time.

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Which, unfortunately, is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't /petition because you don't think it will achieve anything, then nothing will be done, as the GMs won't know about the problem.

If you want something done, you have to /petition.

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I know you always advocate us sending them but until we know what action can be taken and how often it IS taken, people are a lot more likely to flout the rules or retaliate in kind.

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I'm afraid that there is an element of trust required here. We have good reasons (based on our privacy policy) for not giving details of the actions taken against another player's account. I assure you that all of us here take EULA violations and the general behaviour of our players very seriously.

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Is each petition looked at individually or does past petition history come into it?

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Both. Which is why it's so important to /petition every time you see a violation of the rules.

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Some sort of published figures which show that in period Z, X number of harassment petitions were raised of which Y were dismissed, Q resulted in warnings and W resulted in action taken.

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I very much doubt that we'll ever publish those kind of stats - and to be honest, I very much doubt that they'd achieve anything positive if we did.


 

Posted

Thanks for those responses Bridger.

I must say that I've had doubts about the petition system but the fact you've confirmed 'several' accounts a week are banned and outlined the fact past violations are taken into account and what actions the GM's can take has given me a bit more faith.


 

Posted

As a slight aside to all this Bridger, do you often have to issue warnings or take other actions against forum users? Is it something that's rare, occaisional, or frequent?

Of course, I know you can't and won't give numbers or anything like that, just curious as to how often people drop themselves in it on here...


@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Posted

I think although you and Stalko mean well, I think you're making a mistake in that you can't argue or discuss something with someone else who has no regard for what you think:

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I therefore go with what they say. If the dev's say mob TP'ing is ok, then I don't even need to think about it. Its ok.

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If you claim you yourself don't have to think, then you're certainly not going to have any regard what someone else thinks.

My impression is of these zones is that when they get busy - and when somewhere like RV gets busy the conduct of these players simply becomes irrelevant because there is so much other activity. It is only because they hang around some of the PvP zones when the population is low that they become noticeable.

The reality is, you and other PvP players like you vastly outnumber players with low ability and poor social skills, so I don't see them as a big problem.


 

Posted

I haven't had many bad experiences in PvP. Though yesterday whilst in Siren's Call doing a patrol mission with my Corruptor, a hero hit me with a hold mid-flight and I dropped down. Now that was all fine and such, but then the hero went off to attract the attention of some nearby Sky Raiders, held me again, got my health down to almost nothing, and then ran off. So then the Sky Raiders saw me, killed me, and I ended up with over 2000 debt. So then I applauded the hero over broadcast for their maturity and skill, and promptly left the zone.

Eh, I've just learned to stay away from Siren's Call. I've noticed the place seems to attract a lot of immature idiots, and serious "I specifically designed this character for PvP!" people. I guess I'll stick to Bloody Bay until I'm confident in my PvP skills.


 

Posted

Sounds like exactly the kind of PvPer that puts other people off the whole thing...


@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Posted

Dear oh dear, Drone TPing and Mob TPing? I can see how drone TPing in certain circumstances can be viable, mainly to take out a big threat from a ganking group etc, but TPing into mobs just shows a lack of knowledge and respect on the TPers part.

And bob, you made a post about hitting 400 rep? You gained that by TPing people into drones.... Well done, you are a true PvPer in all respects. How one person thinks that removing all fun from a side of the game just for bragging rights is a little small minded in my opinion. No doubt you'll have at least a two paragraph tirade stating your reasons for it, but guess what? I doubt people care.
In fact i'll leave you with this, i was in Siren's one day, happily playing along when a message came over team chat (8 man team) saying you had entered the zone, then they all left. What does that tell you?


 

Posted

Oh.. is 400 rep considered special then? I got that without much trying... I think I've only even been IN the PVP zones 4 or 5 times... I tend to leave once people start TPing into mobs...


@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Posted

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As a slight aside to all this Bridger, do you often have to issue warnings or take other actions against forum users? Is it something that's rare, occaisional, or frequent?

Of course, I know you can't and won't give numbers or anything like that, just curious as to how often people drop themselves in it on here...

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Warnings are fairly common, suspensions are rare, and as yet, I've never had to permanently ban a message board account - although I'm perfectly wiling to do so if required.


 

Posted

Sorry, I'll be good from now on


 

Posted

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Villains are acting like villains imo, pvp has no rules and to win may require tactics (no matter how dirty) on both sides.

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I'm sorry for saying this, but "villains behaving like villains" is the most STUPID arguement in favour of acting like a-holes I ever hear. This is a GAME, and courtesy should be shown by and to both sides. This is a GAME, and so there SHOULD be rules and code of conduct. Having Player versus player with no rules is ONLY laziness from the devs, and nothing more whatsoever.

If your (I don't mean YOU specifically, just a general "you guys") idea of fun is to insult people and cause them grief, you should join a supporter club for football. Problem is, that people who think these things are fun are either children, or adults with serious personality problems and small you-know-what's.

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Its a pvp zone.

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Yes. PLAYER versus PLAYER. There is actual humans on the other side of the avatar that you insult, gank and grief. respecting other human beings should be a requirement for being allowed in a pvp zone, but alas, this isn't so.

Poor behaviour towards other people only breeds more poor behaviour, and this is in my opinion the reason why it's got so much worse since last time I was in siren's.

I say again. PvP zones in CoX should be moderated, and griefing should not be tolerated. Griefing ruins the playing experience for everyone except the person doing the griefing.

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@sixkilla. My quotes are within this, your post. You have very belligerently have taken what i have said and misinterpreted my meaning going from your experiences. I have never heard/seen any seriously foul behaviour in the pvp zones. I have heard banter and baiting i have seen ganking, ambushes, people playing in any way the pvp zones allow of which i see as normal. You seemed to have assumed i am referring exactly to the same things as you do, stuff thats unincluded in your first post of which my post is in response to of which you havent really described any excessive foul behaviour. Also as i had said, i dont take part in all that.

A certain amount of banter and baiting can go on between boxers before a run up to a match this is just to make eachother psychologically off, so mad he forgets to how to box or when to pace or its used to draw crowds into watching. I dont find that unrp like but being a 12+ game i agree it needs to have limits but also being a 12+ game you cant expect everyone to act mature and not dance over your corpse. Its not against EULA, whereas excessive foul abusive behaviour is and only requires a proper petition and a logged chat to solve.

I wouldnt expect people to play to my rules or to what i believe is honourable. This is a roleplaying game and it would be unroleplayer like of most villains to do that but having said that the excessive abusive behaviour that i have (since my post) read about from your posts is a step too far but i havent actually experienced or seen it at all to draw from and of course i dont condone it.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Hi there.

When you were in sirens call...

Did you use your head one tiny bit?

OK heres the facst

There were about 5 heroes...nice

Villais camping heroes base...ok

I may not seem the likely person but

GET A PLAN

ok then 5 heroes, if ALL of u charge in to take out one mastermind theres one gone, their base is a long way way and ur hero base is about 100ft!

u could of sent bait out there

then gank that stalker! bamg anoher gone

try lure them in they might get powed by a drone...looks like another is down

make a distraction n nab the back person with 4 people

hey looks they r prety much all gone now

not so difficult aye?


 

Posted

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ok then 5 heroes, if ALL of u charge in to take out one mastermind theres one gone, their base is a long way way and ur hero base is about 100ft!

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Thats supposed to be a plan?
"If we all charge in on the same target, then thats one gone", even when the most commonly noted problem with breaking through camping forces, is that its difficult to take out a single villain before you all get stuffed back in the hospital? Its true that their travel time back to your base is your main weapon in 'breaking the siege', but if you couldnt push them back on your first zerg-rush, you arent likely to have much better luck once they've got dug in and have camped for a while.

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u could of sent bait out there


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When they can see pretty much everything that is going on, they arent likely to take such obvious bait.

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then gank that stalker! bamg anoher gone


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Provided you can see/catch it, and take it out during the normal long chase-scene as the stalker runs around trying to stay alive, whilst being bombarded by the camping force.

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try lure them in they might get powed by a drone...looks like another is down


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Or not, their main concern when camping a base is often keeping far enough away from the drones, the heroes often come second to that.

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make a distraction n nab the back person with 4 people


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This is a useful tactic, but given camping forces are normally packed into a fairly small area, and there will be teams in there, its hard to take someone out with 'surprise' unless you have good damage output. If one force is camping the other sides base, thats normally a good sign that they have a lot more damage output for the time being, otherwise they just get pushed back naturally and little real camping occurs.

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hey looks they r prety much all gone now


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..and then you woke up and ate your cornflakes. They werent facts, they were chained suppositions and assumations.

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not so difficult aye?


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Except all you did was make basic suggestions, and breaking through a line of people camping a base isnt as easy as "'Bamg' and the dirt is gone". This thread was dead, you missed the "the solution is obvious, you're just stupid" phase. So I have to ask :
"Did you use your head one tiny bit?"