I do believe on Invincible AV's tend to spawn at +2.
The point is, AV's and to a lesser extent GM's definitely CAN be, and routinely are, handled by teams with neither Tanks nor Empaths.
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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I think empaths are just like tanks..you don't REALLY need em but it can speed up things a lot..
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so you dont need either tanks nor empaths to team with you?
would love to see you handle an av or a gm without either´of them.
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Nine out of ten times my SG does that. Hell, sometimes one of our members goes off and solo's the AV while we finish the other mission criteria.
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I do believe on Invincible AV's tend to spawn at +2.
The point is, AV's and to a lesser extent GM's definitely CAN be, and routinely are, handled by teams with neither Tanks nor Empaths.
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invinc and two-man team usually spawns +3 av's (not all the time though)
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
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Probably because empaths are so common they bore the socks of me.
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I'll have you know when I'm playing my empath I can be very witty and often relate some rather humerous anecdotes.
Far from boring 
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Empath SET is boring, not EMPATH players 
Empathy is no more boring than any other powerset, it's just alot more subtle than say...fire armour, or energy blast.
Without a skilled empath, many missions would never have been completed, and many people would have been working off alot more debt. I'm not saying that it's an amazing, "omg u cant do anyfing without an heal0r!", type powerset, but it is a mighty useful additon to a team!
rolled a new empath yesterday. did the first two lvls(up to 3) on my own since its so easily done then i spent about an hour looking for a team.. boy was that boring 
Thnx to Carribean Blue for picking me up 
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
So is any defender.
I just find it more challenging to ensure mobs are clustered around debuffs from sonic/rad/dark, or continually knockbacked from storm/force fields, etc.
Gives the team more to do and think about it. And if its done well, pays huge dividends.
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So is any defender.
I just find it more challenging to ensure mobs are clustered around debuffs from sonic/rad/dark, or continually knockbacked from storm/force fields, etc.
Gives the team more to do and think about it. And if its done well, pays huge dividends.
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agreed to a certain extent.
The problem I find with other defenders (and this comes from playing an empath, a kinetics and a stormy...) is that in order to get the best out of the powers you bring to the team you require a certain amount of buy in from the people you play with.
Take for example the stormy's knockback and dispersion techniques. A stand and taunt tank isn't going to really like you chucking the mobs around (particularly a stone tank)
Or a kinetics, any ranged player is going to have to understand pretty quickly that in order to get any heals they really are going to have to run in for heals and endurance regain.
Sure, both things can work fantastically when the team knows how it works and what the defender does... but I've found with PuGs that unless you've teamed with that type of defender before you're not going to fully appreciate what it is your defender is doing.
I'm not saying empaths are better... but they don't require the team to have to learn anything in order to succeed, so more often than not a team with an Empath will appear to do better than a team with, say, a stormy.
My comments are about 85% based around teaming in PuGs btw... a group of people that team regularly won't ever really experience any probs from any type of defender... normally
Agree with all of that
I would say however that all players shouldnt automatically use all powers. For instance, a stormy defender/troller should not go spamming gale / tornado on enemies clustered around an ice tanks ice slick, a stone tank, or a mob bathing around radation/dark. Lots of other combiinations of course but I use your example.
In such circumstances, best to focus on snow storm debuffery, blasting, etc, or teach a team to try and pack 'em into a corner for total destruction
The reason empaths get a good name is that teams need very little work to make empath set work. I still say that, conversely, a very tight team can make good use of other sets so much so that the other sets actually outshine empaths. But thats just my impression - and the team does have to be very good.
Empathy is the only set that can make a really really really really [censored] team, actually viable. Think about those hollows missions, think about those AV missions just going wrong
I appreciate that.
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Empathy is the only set that can make a really really really really [censored] team, actually viable. Think about those hollows missions, think about those AV missions just going wrong
I appreciate that.
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sometimes I find a decent controller makes more difference *shrug*
Then you need the ultimate combo - a /empathy troller
I'd happily role an empath defender, but the problem with that is that as you get the really good teams, you can be left doing the following (buff CM *7, buff fort, RA*2, AB, fort as needed. Blast away doing pants damage until fort is recharged/someone needs a heal (which is rare). Rinse, repeat.
With troller empathy, you have the primary to play with (which feels more useful than a defenders blasts), and have the option to heal/buff as needed. Only problem with that (as I'm finding with my ill/emp as he starts to approach the final fifth) is you have really difficult power decisions to make (i.e I'm probably going to have to skip AP and revive, perhaps even AB to get the stuff from the primary, pools and epics I want).
That said, I've teamed with some cracking empaths, who have made difficult situations easy, and always appreciate seeing someone else spamming CM (as I tend to forget :O)
Empaths get quite a bashing don't they?
Somedays everyone wants one, others nobody does.
Each defender brings their own talents to the team, and respectively, each team can be good or bad. So some teams can get by that AV with an empath/tank others can't, depends who you end up with in my opinion.
I use a selection of toons and rolled an Empathy defender as a purely support character. Healers play differently and this varies my gameplay, which I enjoy.
My suggestion is, you should use your other toons on those quiet healer days and come back to/suggest your healer on the busy days.
Stand alone example... I was teamed with some of my SG & Coalition friends, we've teamed numerous times and we're aware of how we play. We strolled into a TF got to the first corridor and team faceplanted twice in quick succession. We're not bad players or bad teamers, most of us have lvl 50's, it just happens that way sometimes. I said, "ok, I'll get my healer"
We strolled through the rest of the TF quite blissfully after the swap.
Most Emp issues arise from morons running out of sight, kamikaze players, those jumping the gun before the team is ready and people who really cannot play that powerset.
Good luck & enjoy your healer!
P.S. Yes soloing is hard.... that's why he is brought on in his intended support role 
"Like War_Hero said, leave it as it is, it toughens up the softies." - Naz Nomad
Union Heroes
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P.S. Yes soloing is hard....
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Especially when your empath is still at lvl 7 and gets a mission to take on groups of CoT in Perez.
Stroll into Perez...take one look at all those brightly coloured mages...turn tail and retreat back to Atlas.
Then of course she takes a trip to Kings Row and gets a mission to...take on groups of CoT in Kings Row 
Not so many mages thankfully but seriously...why do all my contacts have to try to get me killed? One day I'm going to to tell them to do their own dirty work...
exactly what i've done, when i play my other toons and see that ppl are asking for healers/defenders i'll logg on (unless i'm busy ofc) and usually i'll get me an invite rather fast, if not i can always go back to my altoholic rampage for a while longer
@EU Brimmy - Union and Exalted servers
Empaths are definetley NOT unappreciated. I find it best (on my old Empath Alt) to get a duo with a good friend from lvl 1 upwards. At around 22, go your seperate ways. 22. SOs. You're wanted.
TBH, at the moment I prefer kinetics defenders, but then that may just be because I love it from my Corruptor, and I can see how useful it is.
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I think empaths are just like tanks..you don't REALLY need em but it can speed up things a lot..
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so you dont need either tanks nor empaths to team with you?
would love to see you handle an av or a gm without either´of them.
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Well, the other day we took down quite a few AVs (bobcat, siege/nightstar and praetorian Synapse whose name I can't remember for some reason) with just a sonic/sonic defender, fire/kin controller and a spines/regen scrapper. This was on Unyielding or Invincible iirc.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: You do NOT need a tank and an empath to kill an AV. You don't even need a full team.
P.S. Imaginary has done Lusca by himself (yes, in i6). Does that count as doing a GM without a tank or an empath?
Empaths mean you can let your hair down. My two current flavours of the month are a Kinetics Defender and a Fire/Rad controller. If theres Empaths on the team I can focus on buffing and debuffing and controlling or sapping. If theres an empath with me I'll happily charge into the fray to bring out the pbaoes. And an Empaths auras are gods gift to a level 25 Kinetics defender without stamina.
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I think empaths are just like tanks..you don't REALLY need em but it can speed up things a lot..
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so you dont need either tanks nor empaths to team with you?
would love to see you handle an av or a gm without either´of them.
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Well, the other day we took down quite a few AVs (bobcat, siege/nightstar and praetorian Synapse whose name I can't remember for some reason) with just a sonic/sonic defender, fire/kin controller and a spines/regen scrapper. This was on Unyielding or Invincible iirc.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: You do NOT need a tank and an empath to kill an AV. You don't even need a full team.
P.S. Imaginary has done Lusca by himself (yes, in i6). Does that count as doing a GM without a tank or an empath?
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GMs are rediculously easy to solo, my fire/kin can do most of them very easily, Gatling has even done most of them with a blaster
my fire/kin can also tank a lot of AVs without much of a prob apart from the hard hitting ones like tyrant and the back alley brawler one...not sure where this post was leading now lol was supposed to be agreeing with xanthus in that u never need a tank or empath to take out AVs and GMs
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so you dont need either tanks nor empaths to team with you?
would love to see you handle an av or a gm without either´of them.
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Not really. Besides Hami, 2 trollers are usually enough to take on almost anything in this game (and preferably /kin and /rad). 3 of them make things a lot quicker (2 of which illusion are handy so you have perma decoys). And an 8-man troller team? Hehe, gotta see it to believe it .
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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I've said it once, and I'll say it again: You do NOT need a tank and an empath to kill an AV. You don't even need a full team.
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Despite me being pro tanker for their usefulness in teams this statement is very true and so obviously more so on CoV. The game is made up so that no AT or type of hero is a definate requirement of any team. Despite people being all pro rad for RV, I am not. I see the regen and the res as hurdles and getting past one or the other is fine but both is obviously great.
I have seen AV's done with just a defender and a blaster before now.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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My empath was pretty succesful. Often got team invites, sometimes when i was already in a team ( 'We Need you more' )
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Yes :P I remember those days.. and you know what.. we did -- and we is glad you came. XD
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I think empaths are just like tanks..you don't REALLY need em but it can speed up things a lot..
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so you dont need either tanks nor empaths to team with you?
would love to see you handle an av or a gm without either´of them.
[/ QUOTE ]No, I definitely don't, and I've done AV's and GM's solo, duo, and in teams, all without tanks or empaths. I'll take a kin, dark or storm rather than an empath 99% of the time.
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I do believe on Invincible AV's tend to spawn at +2.
[/ QUOTE ]If they're at the end of the mish, they'll be +2. If they're somewhere else, they can be +3. Also, if you have 6 or more players, levels go up with one.
Very true:P
Tho I think stones are the only real meatshield build left after the tank nerfs..