On the subject of 1 on 1's i agree there shouldnt be a rule there that would prevent them being attacked while it is going on. However, 1 on 1's have their place in sirens etc just as much as in the arena, it all comes down to common curtesy. I'm not saying that if your bounty is constantly having 1 on 1's all night meaning you cant clear them you shouldn't attack, i would 
I just mean that 1 on 1's happen there, and usually they do no harm. So why not?
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On the subject of 1 on 1's i agree there shouldnt be a rule there that would prevent them being attacked while it is going on. However, 1 on 1's have their place in sirens etc just as much as in the arena, it all comes down to common curtesy. I'm not saying that if your bounty is constantly having 1 on 1's all night meaning you cant clear them you shouldn't attack, i would I just mean that 1 on 1's happen there, and usually they do no harm. So why not?
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I guess I kinda agree. However, if you wish to 1vs1 I'd say you should arrange it via tell rather than broadcast and have it somewhere that people don't usually go (like the top of a building or behind the villain base in the water). If I see a villain, I don't stop to think to myself "Is he AFK? Is he 1vs1? Does he have his hands on the keyboard? What time is it where he is?", I just attack.
OK in reply to the should we have a CoC and RoE and if so should we define them ourselves topic that got picked up in this thread. I say YES we should have some form of CoC and RoE in place. As to defining them ourselves well no. However we should influence them and let the developers of the game see and hear what things we as a society(admittedly a small part of it due to being on the forum - but the only real voice there is) feel are acceptable and not acceptable in our PvP zones. In most countrys in the world most people do not set the rules which define what is illegal and legal but they do influence what become laws or what laws are applied and how they are applied.
At the end of the day each of us will have our own opinions of what is right and wrong behaviour in the PvP zone and in general from the bit I have seen and experienced in there most of us seem to be in the same ball park sitting in different sections admittedly but still in the same general area.
Now if we were to set our own rules, who is to say what rules get accepted and which do not. Is it those with the highest forum posts/stars, those that shout and spam their point the most or those with the highest pvp rating that get the deciding say on the rules hopefully none of them as they are each a part of the CoX society and it is the society as a whole that needs to be taken into consideration and that is why we should not define the CoC and RoE but instead influence them.
One reason we need them or we at least need the dev team to fix flaws in the system/map is for the below example:
Some people have complained about getting tpd into watch towers as they cannot get out of them without using tp or having someone else tp them out. Now my MA scrapper has no ranged attacks to get people with when they run off as they often do, he has not got enough acc to hit most folk anyway as not PvP slotted yet anyway but thats another matter.
, so I would view getting tp and tp foe and sitting in a watchtower tping folks to me so that they cannot run away while I try to wail on them a valid tactic as it traps them much the same as using hurricane to trap someone in a phone box, cargo box, etc (has the added bonus of if they cannot get out of there in the first place their best bet is to let me kill them otherwise after Im dead theyll still be trapped but that is another issue) However I am pretty sure if I started using that tactic I would very quickly get shouted at and petitioned by folk.
So would this tactic be right or would the ones complaining about its use be right at the end of the day its up to the developers to decide that as they have made the watch towers big enough to fit an alt in but also not made an exit point for it. So while being able to fit into it would indicate that it is an acceptable tactic I would also say that having no exit point for anyone without TP indicates that it is not a valid tactic.
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so I would view getting tp and tp foe and sitting in a watchtower tping folks to me so that they cannot run away while I try to wail on them a valid tactic as it traps them much the same as using hurricane to trap someone in a phone box, cargo box, etc (has the added bonus of if they cannot get out of there in the first place their best bet is to let me kill them otherwise after Im dead theyll still be trapped but that is another issue)
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Actually no tower tp is directly considered griefing according to US forums posted from a red name i think somewhere. Its an exploit cause u need actually a GM to get out and is possible to get stuck. I will look up the post on that
Thanks bridger, i'm just reluctant to /petition as i'm not used to people being plonkers here. But i will /petition in the future if I have to.
BTW, same player was around the other night and said nothing, no idea why, was just happy to play in peace.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
When I feel down you know what I do? WORMHOLE!!!
>_>
<_<
What?
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Some people have complained about getting tp&#8217;d into watch towers as they cannot get out of them without using tp or having someone else tp them out. Now my MA scrapper has no ranged attacks to get people with when they run off as they often do, he has not got enough acc to hit most folk anyway as not PvP slotted yet anyway but that&#8217;s another matter., so I would view getting tp and tp foe and sitting in a watchtower tp&#8217;ing folks to me so that they cannot run away while I try to wail on them a valid tactic as it traps them much the same as using hurricane to trap someone in a phone box, cargo box, etc (has the added bonus of if they cannot get out of there in the first place their best bet is to let me kill them otherwise after I&#8217;m dead they&#8217;ll still be trapped but that is another issue) However I am pretty sure if I started using that tactic I would very quickly get shouted at and petitioned by folk.
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Very good point.
However, to be honest I couldnt care less what they say on the US forums, I dont read there, I dont post there. If they want to use forums to outline rules to us, they can tell us -here-. Or better yet, they can write it in an update so it can be seen when I go through the autopatcher to enter the game.
I can't see myself ever accepting any player imposed rules. As long as there are no rules set by red names everything goes. I will interrupt any fights I see if I feel like it. Want to duel? Go to the arena. I try to avoid doing "unsporting" things, but then again I will avoid dying even more. So if im losing I might lure you into mobs just to even up odds and I dont consider it "griefing". You play the game as you want and I'll do the same. It always comes to your ethics and morale against mine and theres no way telling which one of us is more right untill devs decide to set it straight.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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As long as there are no rules set by red names everything goes.
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You see that's the problem. By your reasoning I could pick out a PVPing player or group and keep attacking them, keep killing them over and over again. It could ruin there time in the zone and in most games would be considered griefing if you're not letting them move on. But we have no rules from the devs, so it's ok.
You can TP someone into a mob, and hold them.. and when they come back from hospital - with debt, you can do it again, and again. But we have no rules from the devs, so they won't do anything.
Ultimately, tactics like this force players out of the zones, not the fact that they get killed.
I agree that it would be better to have the devs provide a COC and ROE if it were regioin specific (with the help of Bridger et al) and included feedback from the players in its creation, but I can't see it happening under the current climate.
How about this?
We, as a group on the boards, come up with what we would like in an ROE. We then submit this to Bridger (if you're up for it) with the proviso that if a ROE/COC set for PVP is ever produced, those rules would be proposed AS SUGUSTIONS ONLY as to what we would like in it.
I think fighting dirty is ok, but repeatedly killing a single player over and over is well...bullying. This becomes more complex if your the only hero/villain in the zone.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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I think fighting dirty is ok, but repeatedly killing a single player over and over is well...bullying. This becomes more complex if your the only hero/villain in the zone.
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Good point there. Thats one reason I think we'll never get any rules. Theres just too many variables. You can't do this... unless variable x equals y and so on. We all know when WE are griefing but we all have slightly different idea what actually IS griefing.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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Some people have complained about getting tpd into watch towers as they cannot get out of them without using tp or having someone else tp them out. Now my MA scrapper has no ranged attacks to get people with when they run off as they often do, he has not got enough acc to hit most folk anyway as not PvP slotted yet anyway but thats another matter., so I would view getting tp and tp foe and sitting in a watchtower tping folks to me so that they cannot run away while I try to wail on them a valid tactic as it traps them much the same as using hurricane to trap someone in a phone box, cargo box, etc (has the added bonus of if they cannot get out of there in the first place their best bet is to let me kill them otherwise after Im dead theyll still be trapped but that is another issue) However I am pretty sure if I started using that tactic I would very quickly get shouted at and petitioned by folk.
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tbh, I dont think your comparison with being hurricaned into a bus stop is a valid one. The big difference is, that if you kill the hurricaner, you can exit. If he would kill you in the fight in the watchtower, he'll still be stuck. Like TG said, it's an exploit and it says pretty clearly in the User Agreement/Rules of Conduct that such exploits are not allowed.
Dunno if hurricaning into a busstop is an equal exploit, but I doubt it. Seeing it IS a power to keep melee people away from you, so you either just keep running around pushing em everywhere, or corner them.
To the people complaining the most bout that hurricaning/forcebubble tactic, I doubt they complain if somebody would use that tactic in PvE. Each of those posts kinda sound like all those anti-stalker posts as well. People are just annoyed they are on the losing side of a battle.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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Some people have complained about getting tpd into watch towers as they cannot get out of them without using tp or having someone else tp them out. Now my MA scrapper has no ranged attacks to get people with when they run off as they often do, he has not got enough acc to hit most folk anyway as not PvP slotted yet anyway but thats another matter., so I would view getting tp and tp foe and sitting in a watchtower tping folks to me so that they cannot run away while I try to wail on them a valid tactic as it traps them much the same as using hurricane to trap someone in a phone box, cargo box, etc (has the added bonus of if they cannot get out of there in the first place their best bet is to let me kill them otherwise after Im dead theyll still be trapped but that is another issue) However I am pretty sure if I started using that tactic I would very quickly get shouted at and petitioned by folk.
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tbh, I dont think your comparison with being hurricaned into a bus stop is a valid one. The big difference is, that if you kill the hurricaner, you can exit. If he would kill you in the fight in the watchtower, he'll still be stuck. Like TG said, it's an exploit and it says pretty clearly in the User Agreement/Rules of Conduct that such exploits are not allowed.
Dunno if hurricaning into a busstop is an equal exploit, but I doubt it. Seeing it IS a power to keep melee people away from you, so you either just keep running around pushing em everywhere, or corner them.
To the people complaining the most bout that hurricaning/forcebubble tactic, I doubt they complain if somebody would use that tactic in PvE. Each of those posts kinda sound like all those anti-stalker posts as well. People are just annoyed they are on the losing side of a battle.
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I agree with everything u said
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Thankfully the vast majority of chat between my "enemies" has been lighthearted banter, congratulations on a good kill, or, at worst, a diversionary tactic.
Last night i recieved something more unpleasant, in short i was accused of:
being a "little boy",
being to old to play video games (i'm 28),
being fat (even though i'm not),
having no wife and being "on the shelf" (even though i'm not, i have gf),
having a non existent social life (even though i do have a social life).
Some people (on the villain side funnily enough) thought I was taking it a bit too seriously, everyone on the hero side (my side) thought this person went too far. I come on coh/cov to relax and have fun, if i want people to insult me, i'll ask my boss for overtime. Thankfully this is pretty rare on cox, but its the reason i dont play many other online games where this sort of thing is a lot more common.
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Always, always, always send a /petition any time you feel that someone is violating the User Agreement and/or the Code of Conduct in any way - and that definitely includes abusive, rude or offensive language.
You only need to send one /petition to cover a single incident - but if you encounter similar behaviour from the same character again at a later date, please /petition them again.
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bridger you say"for SINGLE INCIDENT"
that incident can continue way after i may have sent my 1st petition , in my case it was three hours.which covered kill stealling ,harrasment and so on
is it still only one petition ?
or should we update the petition as the incident's progress?
from my view its better to update the incidents, givin custermer support full info.
I agree with most of what he said - I did point out the fact that the other person may not be able to get out of the watch tower situation and said that was another issue. The comparision with hurricane was done for exactly the point of using the environment to aid your power set. As Nefarious said hurricane is a power to keep poeple away, it is not one to hold or immob them but by using the environment that is effectivly what they are achiving against some power sets.
I was using the watchtower scenario as an example to show how people can disagree about how a power and environmental item can be used. Yes it is an exploit but as with the hospital camping exploit that some used to use and claim that until it was fixed by the developers it was a fair tactic - the same could be said for this. The watchtower is something that the developers created to add authenticity to a map and that allows a certain power set to totaly do something that the mayority say is not allowable. So the developers need to change the environment to not allow this practice or make an official announcement that it is considered griefing and should not be used or that it is ok to use it in the manner i described.
Now TG has said that a redname has posted in the US boards that this is officially griefing and a legitimate cause for petitioning. The problem however is that that is on the US boards NOT the UK/european boards. If the dev's are saying it is an official griefing issue then they NEED TO POST IT ON ALL BOARDS and make it official. Posting it on the us boards only does not make it griefing on the UK as we have had no official notice that it is such on our boards - not every one on the forum checks the US boards and given that my login is for the UK/european forum only that is the board that i follow.
At least this way we start having some rules that are official having been defined by the developers based on the CoX societies feelings and their own judgement which is what my initial post in this thread was all about.
hm, must admit you got a point, well 2 actually, there. The fact that people have different rules.. well thats mainly the issue in this thread now is it? I, myself, dont do hospital camping nor do I tp into watchtowers as I consider this an act of griefing myself. Whether or not the devs fixed it, thats beside the point for me personally.
Second of all, bout the devs not posting here. Well... kinda get used to it I fear. We are just an "abroad" release. Sure, dont get me wrong, we get alot of info and most important stuff is said here as well as the US boards. However, the US will always be the first to know bout the info. Some 'minor' details like these are likely to skipped on our boards. I agree though, that we shouldnt be forced to check the US boards for this kind of thing. I myself only use the US boards as some form of encyclopedia to check on some numbers or other ingame info.
On a slightly different note.. I saw today the watchtowers in PI where PL-beggers were often TPed into now got a little doorway allowing to enter and exit at will. Might the same be done for those in Sirens? Haven't checked myself yet...
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
I can understand that ppl get agitated when an opponent acts up against them, but i have to say that its really not that bad if u ponder a moment on how bad it could be. I myself get frustrated at times on ppl acting 'bad' in PvP-zones but again that is really my oppinion on whats ok and not. So far i hevent seen yet 1 thing i actually was expecting, and that was ppl joining up in teams in warburg to do i.e. the rocket launch, and then kick 1 member from team and [censored] him over and over only to get better PvP-rating. I know several other MMORPGs where they would invite a person to a team, just to lure them away to farm them for gold. IMO i would say that you cant avoid ppl acting stupid, but if u expect them too, u dont get as upset.
If u plan on entering a PvP-zone (that is entirely optional for the sake of playing the game) u get warnings about being a target. U enter the zone at ur own risk of getting killed or being griefed to the point where u get tons of debt. not always fun, but its the way the world works. If u arent prepared to take the possible herassment, stay in the PvE zones. I myself prefer fairplay and has at several times ignored an opponant in a PvP-zone since niether him or me is really that interested in fighting eachother.
In conclusion i would like to add this: the players that are being griefed and sometimes just overpowered, shouldnt be whining in broadcast and calling names. That IMO is even worse than i.e. teleporting some1 into a drone. coz most of the times is just ppl trying to do missions or PvP and cant take the heat. if u do a mission in a pvp-zone, be prepared to get attacked. thats why we have PvP-zones. else we could just have stayed at using the arena.
plus the most satisfying feeling u can get is when u kill that fool that is molesting u or others. if a person is TPing some1 into the drones, dont complain, get a team and rush him, as he dies, he will stop coz his childish game didnt work anymore.
Hmm yeah but in making a team and crushing them, would make yourself and allies no better than the origional culprit.
And what is one persons "whine" is another persons "comment"/"complaint".
Lets be honest, at the moment there is a lot of trash talking in COH/COV, in most zones all you have to do is loiter near the populated areas and all you see is a stream of people deriding/mocking/insulting others, often over nothing more than getting themselves defeated in a fight, making a mistake or asking a question.
Yes there most likely is a greater number of people out there being nice and polite, but they are not the ones broadcasting on broadcast/local chat.
Everyday the more I see the word n00b the more I find it offencive, whats wrong with people being new and inexperienced?
No community can survive long or remain healthy by picking on or insulting the new blood.
A lot of problems would not be, if people were just patient and took a breath before typing.
If you want people to be polite and nice, be so to them.
DG>
This whole good/wrong debate... does petitioning anyone actually work? If someone repeatedly throws a hold on you and TPs you into mobs so you get debt and you petition them... will this change anything?
I have a bad bad feeling it won't. 
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This whole good/wrong debate... does petitioning anyone actually work?
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Seeing as petitioning people for breaking clearly defined rules rarely amounts to anything, petitioning people for breaking loose player created guidelines isn't going to do much.
Right my thoughts on greifing and PVP, the only place I do alot of PVP is Sirens call, you want a one on one fair fight, go to the arena, places like sirens don't have that safety net.
I expect to come away from sirens with debt, I have no problems with that, on the same scale if someone gets into debt because of me I won't lose sleep over it.
Good example was the other night, my stalker is fully slotted with SO's, my assassin strike isn't getting any more powerful, yet I cannot even close to one shot a tanker, which is fair enough.
I tried to assassin strike this earth tanker standing around, as usual did about half of his health, I wasn't staying around to fight it out so I ran, little later he wades into a hotspot, Arachnos forces hitting him but looks like hes gonna survive it, I wait until hes about half health and try to kill him again, he survives with just a little health left and some Arachnos drone gets the kill.
Was that greifing? hell no, I wanted to get the kill, but if I don't? well as long as they aren't influencing the hotspot I don't care, I really get fed up of people moaning over debt in sirens when they fight near the hotspots, no scratch that, when they are in sirens at all.
The whole point of that zone is to take control from the other side and keep it, not to kill other players, otherwise the dev's wouldn't have put the forces on each sides, the hotpspots and the equipment you can buy from the quartermasters if you have control.
Killing players on the other side is just a bonus not the objective AFAIK.
true, when you go PvPing in a hotspot, expect to get debt. If you dont want possible debt, fight outside the hotspots. However, I do think its bad courtesy if you on purpose tp somebody in a big mob, hold him and just walk away hoping they get debt. IIRC, this is also called griefing in the book of rednames.
When you have a normal fight in the hotspots and you die cause of a NPC getting the killer blow rather than a player, well thats just the risk of fighting there. The devs also let that know to the playerbase when they released I6/CoV.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
Hi ratto, seen u in sirens a few times.
Yes being simply overpowered can feel like griefing, it helps to put yourself in the other persons shoes. If you were in a team of 8 and only had one person to fight, what would you do? One time when overpowered and outnumbered I pulled the villains around by showing my face then running off, maybe sneaking in a cheeky wee debuff. This was just to give us both something to do, I was the only hero on, and leaving would have left them kinda bored, besides, i wanted to hang around anyway. Guess what i'm saying is you can still have fun when totally outgunned.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Everyday the more I see the word n00b the more I find it offencive, whats wrong with people being new and inexperienced?
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You misinterpet the term n00b and newbie. Newbies in PvP and PvP zones are the ones quite new to the game and to the mechanics and are slowly getting acquainted. On the other hand n00bs can be low level or high level and usually high level ones despite their high level toons they lack the knowledge about game mechanics as well as proper control of their toons. Furthermore uppon being advised they react spamming abuse and insults and occasionally is hilarious to observe them try give advice about other people builds on broadcast. Currently there is a lot of newbies in PvP zones in CoH/V that of course they have the usual whinge which as they progress and learn goes away and the total (i refrain to use the word) that go in PvP zones and once they get wasted by the good players they start a whole series of arguements about cheats exploits and hax instead of reviewing the reasons they may have lost and trying to evaluate their own tactics.
I havent seen yet any of the old school EU players on Defiant to use the word n00b as a derogatory term on broadcast except for occasions that the term is very very well deserved. Except for plight of course...he is our all time favourite n00b
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Thankfully the vast majority of chat between my "enemies" has been lighthearted banter, congratulations on a good kill, or, at worst, a diversionary tactic.
Last night i recieved something more unpleasant, in short i was accused of:
being a "little boy",
being to old to play video games (i'm 28),
being fat (even though i'm not),
having no wife and being "on the shelf" (even though i'm not, i have gf),
having a non existent social life (even though i do have a social life).
Some people (on the villain side funnily enough) thought I was taking it a bit too seriously, everyone on the hero side (my side) thought this person went too far. I come on coh/cov to relax and have fun, if i want people to insult me, i'll ask my boss for overtime. Thankfully this is pretty rare on cox, but its the reason i dont play many other online games where this sort of thing is a lot more common.
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Always, always, always send a /petition any time you feel that someone is violating the User Agreement and/or the Code of Conduct in any way - and that definitely includes abusive, rude or offensive language.
You only need to send one /petition to cover a single incident - but if you encounter similar behaviour from the same character again at a later date, please /petition them again.