The problems with PvP


BattleEngine

 

Posted

IMO the biggest problems with PvP are all the trash-talkers, moaners and poor losers.


I really should do something about this signature.

 

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To both Hobo and Silver, when does it take an entire volley or a 'team' to take out a MM? I can easily 2 shot them into oblivion unless they have PFF running...

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Aim and Build Up will allow you to 2 shot ANY mm, even with PFF running.

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Only if you slot aim and build up with tohit buffs, you will only hit arround 25% else if you dont have them if the MM slotted with defence buffs in PFF. With 3 in each its arround 75% you hit.


50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr

 

Posted

Yeah, PFF is a real bugger to hit through. I was teamed with a Fire/NRG blaster, he popped Aim + BU (not sure of his slotting), had fortitude (3 slotted with ToHitBuff), and tactics (also 3 slotted)...and still missed more often than not!


 

Posted

Is my Planner wrong then? Apparently 3 slotted PFF (+2 Defence SOs) only gives you a Defence of 119%, for a Mastermind.

I'd have thought Aim + Build Up would get through that quite nicely...


World of Jackcraft.

 

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To both Hobo and Silver, when does it take an entire volley or a 'team' to take out a MM? I can easily 2 shot them into oblivion unless they have PFF running...

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Aim and Build Up will allow you to 2 shot ANY mm, even with PFF running.

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Aim, Build Up, Fury, Snipe will take a Mastermind to 1/4 health. I've tried it numerous times. My Damage is 3x+2 Slotted SO's.

It will take me a Explosive Blast and probably a Bolt/Blast to finish the weakest of the AT's.

Oh and you can buy BF's in Sirens Call, just takes Bounty. (And not the choccie bar )


 

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Even Silver Weasel, when cornered the other day, ran away with his sliver of health, instead of just accepting defeat. It's unsporting.

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I'm a blaster; my inherents appear when I have a sliver of health. My entire AT/build is based on Rapid Reactions/Responses and my build is based on the basic "Annoyance" factor.

Retreat is a sound tactical maneuver when faced by overwhelming odds. I'm not in it for the sport.

That's why foxes don't take on Huntsmen...

Smart eh?


 

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Smart eh?

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Like a fox


 

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Yeah, PFF is a real bugger to hit through. I was teamed with a Fire/NRG blaster, he popped Aim + BU (not sure of his slotting), had fortitude (3 slotted with ToHitBuff), and tactics (also 3 slotted)...and still missed more often than not!

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My aim and build up both have 2 slots of tohit on them. I'm looking to increase that a bit more though, if i can find the spare slots. PFF can be a real pain indeed when it's slotted properly.


 

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[...] Oh and you can buy BF's in Sirens Call, just takes Bounty. [...]

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The useless type, yes. The one you can't use when you need it the most - when you're already mezzed.


 

Posted

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Yeah, PFF is a real bugger to hit through. I was teamed with a Fire/NRG blaster, he popped Aim + BU (not sure of his slotting), had fortitude (3 slotted with ToHitBuff), and tactics (also 3 slotted)...and still missed more often than not!

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I have one ToHit Buff in each of Aim and Build up, and 1 53 acc enhance in each offensive power.

Spent about 3 hours in Sirens on Tuesday and hit through PFF every single time I tried (which would have been about 6-8 times).
Poorly slotted mm's maybe....


Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]

 

Posted

A Mastermind's PFF 3 Slotted with +2 Defence SOs - 119.24% Def

Blaster generic attack slotted with 1 +2 Acc SO - 77.45% (taking into account -25% acc for PvP zones)

Add Aim and Build up unslotted for ToHit you get an extra 162.5% Acc... which would make a grand total of 239.95% Accuracy giving you a 120.71% chance ToHit the Mastermind with PFF...

Now correct me if I'm wrong please, I only just recently started doing numbers.


World of Jackcraft.

 

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Now correct me if I'm wrong please,

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Is that an open invitation for all your posts? Or just this one in question?


"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

 

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I'm never wrong!

*Flex*


World of Jackcraft.

 

Posted

IM not sure but I think there is an accuracy cap, thou dont quote me on that, and dont ask me what it is, also factor in additioanl bubble, i mean to m's get access to dispersion field? cryolite armor? forcefield drones? and isnt there an inherent +def bonus to pvp zones?


 

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Dispersion bubble is only AoE defence and I think the Generator is a Traps power. Dunno what the Accuracy cap is and I factored in the +def in PvP.


World of Jackcraft.

 

Posted

Accuracy cap means you ALWAYS have a 5% chance to miss.

Weasel 1 : Chives 0


 

Posted

Actually Hobo, you are mistaken about acc the true formula is

Net tohit = (1 + accuracy enhancements) * [ base tohit * (1 + tohit buffs - tohit debuffs) - (defense - defense debuffs) ]

If you plot in your figures you will see that you will miss quite alot against PFF. Its too late for me to bother doing it now.


50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr

 

Posted

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IM not sure but I think there is an accuracy cap, thou dont quote me on that, and dont ask me what it is, also factor in additioanl bubble, i mean to m's get access to dispersion field? cryolite armor? forcefield drones? and isnt there an inherent +def bonus to pvp zones?

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No accuracy or defense cap, methinks. But ToHit is capped between 5% and 95%.


 

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PvP is and has always been a different game to PvE; so why run the two concurrently?

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Little bit lost here, but don't nearly all mmorpg's that have both PvP & PvE content also run the two concurrently?

I'm still more than surprised than other ATs moan more than an Empath in a PvP zone


 

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A Mastermind's PFF 3 Slotted with +2 Defence SOs - 119.24% Def

Blaster generic attack slotted with 1 +2 Acc SO - 77.45% (taking into account -25% acc for PvP zones)

Add Aim and Build up unslotted for ToHit you get an extra 162.5% Acc... which would make a grand total of 239.95% Accuracy giving you a 120.71% chance ToHit the Mastermind with PFF...

Now correct me if I'm wrong please, I only just recently started doing numbers.

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Actually Hobo, you are mistaken about acc the true formula is

Net tohit = (1 + accuracy enhancements) * [ base tohit * (1 + tohit buffs - tohit debuffs) - (defense - defense debuffs) ]

If you plot in your figures you will see that you will miss quite alot against PFF. Its too late for me to bother doing it now.

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that would be (figuring this goes as 100% = 1.00)
with 3 slotted aim and build up with +3 SOs
aim = +125.88%
bu = +78.68%
makes for a total of 204.56% = 2.0456 in the formula

PFF = 119.6% = 1.196 in the formula
Net tohit = (1 + 0.33) * [ 0.5 * (1 + 2.0456 - 0) - (1.196 - 0) ]

Net tohit = 1.33 * [ 0.5 * 3.0456 - 1.196 ] = 0.434644

which gives you a 43.46% chance.

ouch. 6 slots cant defeat 3 slots. PFF truly is a powerfull power. too bad MM have it, as they can just send in their pets with virtually no risk

lets see what an empath can do here (just for fun)
another 47.21% ACC with fortitude

Net tohit = (1 + 0.33) * [ 0.5 * (1 + 2.5177 - 0) - (1.196 - 0) ]

Net tohit = 1.33 * [ 0.5 * 3.5177 - 1.196 ] = 0.7485905

74.85% which is rather nice again

top tip of the day, blasters: get yourselves a pet empath (not just for fortitude )


@Shift
Shift 50 DM/DA Scrapper ][ TTL 50 Kat/Reg Scrapper ][ Shabriel 50 Peacebringer ][ Ion Shift 46 Rad/Rad Corruptor ][ Thermal Shift 35 Fire/Fire Blaster
"A Scrapper is a lot like a chainsaw. Somewhat hard to handle, incredibly dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane."

 

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ouch. 6 slots cant defeat 3 slots. PFF truly is a powerfull power. too bad MM have it, as they can just send in their pets with virtually no risk

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Yup, for anyone else PFF isn't that much use (other than an escape power), but for a good MM it's great!

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top tip of the day, blasters: get yourselves a pet empath (not just for fortitude )

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Don't encourage them!


 

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The abbreviated version reads as follows :

The problem with PVP, is that its more about the stats, and far less about the skill.


 

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I dont know which accuracy formula to use. In the guide Arcanaville made, he says its;

Net tohit = (1 + accuracy enhancements) * [ base tohit * (1 + tohit buffs - tohit debuffs) - (defense - defense debuffs) ]
Defence guide v. 1.0

But in the same guide v. 1,1 she says that its;
Net tohit = (Base Accuracy + accuracy enhancements) * [ base tohit + tohit buffs - tohit debuffs - (defense - defense debuffs) ]
Defence guide v. 1.1


A Paragon Defender

 

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The abbreviated version reads as follows :

The problem with PVP, is that its more about the stats, and far less about the skill.

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Not really, compare it to any sport. Tactics and preparation is needed, but without the skill of the players NO amount of tactic or preparation will help.


50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr

 

Posted

Thats funny, when my team "The Underdogs" was entering the S4, you kept telling us that we had no chance to win, due to the PVP builds of the enemy we would face.

Skill doesnt mean just artfully crafting a finely balanced PVP character, and it shouldnt just come down to having the upper hand in stats either. I have very rarely seen an opponent use actual cunning or trickery beyond basic 'baiting', running away when the odds arent in your favor, or throwing around stealth temp powers or stacking leadership abilities. There should be no such thing as an invincible tactic, or an inpenetratable defense, but very often you'll find that it simply comes down to statistics, not skill.
For the anti-stalkers AND stalkers, how many times has fights counted entirely on the number of stacked stealth/perception powers? Balancing issue? Pretty much. Balancing shouldnt doesnt just mean tweaking the values, it should mean changing the things that are throwing things out of whack. Its not an easy thing to work with, I know, but look at stalkers.

So as I said before, the trouble with PVP, is its all about the stats, not the skill. Skill is something you cant rehearse or pre-calculate or purposely choose at character generation. The game doesnt allow for a great deal of skill, and eventually only really comes down to experience and statistics, then at a further stretch, whether or not the player has raised/respec'd their character for PVP.

It would be nice for a stalker and its victim to not worry about how many stealth/perception powers they have active, but whether or not the victim it staring directly at them, or where the assassin might approach them from. I know that stealth/perception things arent the only things that throw things seriously out of whack, but they provide the best example.