What he said.
Another example is this: I have what you would call a "Finely tuned PvP build" (or so I'd like to think). However, if I was to put my brother behind the controls of my character, he'd die. A whole lot.
Besides that, part of the skill IS being able to come up with new tactics and superior builds. Although it's not all about the numbers, they do help (as they do in PvE as well).
Hmmmmmm can see both arguments. To some degree there is a limited amount of skill you can use. Its no surprise that some teams with particular builds in S4 got further - how many energy/energy blasters!
However like nightbringer and xanthus have said, tactics and skill do come into play (as well as knowledge). I guess this is much more apperent when fighting in teams. When fighting similar builds it will mostly be skill and tactics that separate the winner from the loser.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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You're talking about your Blaster right? And you're afraid of Brutes? And you're */Energy aren't you?
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I'm en/en blaster. I have Bonesmasher and energy punch. I still can't take down a -decent- brute. reason? The disorient don't hit BY FAR often enough. In any case, most brutes I've fought have fear/terrorize (don't know exactly what it's called), and even with Assault (Res Fear) I get hit every time fear/terrorize is recharged (this is with 3 slotted defense in stealth, dunno if this has any effect on fear/terrorize, but felt I should add it.)
I do agree that Hide should take longer to reactivate. A stalker with TP is nigh impossible to follow. Why should one AT be COMPLETELY safe as long as the player doesn't attack? (and trust me, against good stalker pvp builds, not even Tactics AND a couple Yellow inspirations have ANY effect. IR-goggles can't be taken into the consideration, as it's a temp power you'r only lucky to be able to buy.)
BUT, and here is the crux (as they say), of the problem. The problem with PvP isn't specific AT's, it's not even specific builds, and it sure as heck isn't TP. -IT'S THE PLAYERS!- It's the griefers and the gankers. It's more often than not the flamers from the boards, that break out an AT and a build that many people consider overpowered in the first place, and team up with OTHERS of like minds, and they prey on the players that want to play the game as intended.
Way too often it's happened to me that I'm happily cruising around Sirens, only to have 3-5 (Yes, THREE to FIVE) stalkers try and AS me at the same times. Coincidence? I think not.
Also, many ppl playing stalkers are COWARDS by nature. I almost can't count the times where I've spent a minute or two fighting a Brute, I am down to around half health and so is the brute, then all of a sudden ASSASSIN STRIKE is printed over my head in large, red and above all unfriendly letters, and I wake up dead.
Now call me old fashioned, but I like to be fair when playing against other players, because I like this game, so I like the people playing it to have fun so they'll stay with the game for longer. I don't (usually) interfere with 1on1 battles, and I don't team up to hunt solo players. I'm about to break these personal rules, because it seems I'm the only one that has them.
Yes, I say again. It's not the GAME that breaks PvP, it's the PLAYERS that can't seem to fight fair if it depended on the life of their grandmother. It's impossible to make a game that forces EVERYONE to play fair, and still be entertaining. And it's impossible to enforce in-game unwritten rules as to player behaviour, because there will always be idiots who ruin the game for everyone else. (I feel the same way about flamers on the boards, but there's no solution to them either, except re-parenting)
And I'm putting this on the bottom of the post, just to see how many reads it before they start with the name-calling.
I don't want AS nerfed, and if Hide don't get a longer re-hide timer I'm not shedding any tears. I like the game the way it is, but because of the way Stalkers are being played, something should be done, and this is the least "nerfing" solution.
I agree 100% with you concerning griefers, but what's the difference between ganking and team play? Often i've teamed with stalkers simply because there are no other AT's playing in the zone.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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I still can't take down a -decent- brute.
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Question number 1
Do you use aim and build up?
Question number 2
Why do you have to stun him, when damage will do the job?
Question number 3
How many slots do you have in aim and build up?
Question number 4
Do you bring break frees?
The SG Im in has 6 */nrg blasters. None of them have problems with brutes. They mostly complain about stalkers 1-hit klling them, so Im pretty sure its either your build or your tactics.
A Paragon Defender
Well. my explanation is that all energy attacks proc twice, and very hard, so they quickly build up rage, then terrorize me, so I can't fight back then kick my bum. quite clever actually. :P but I may be wrong.
Off Topic (sry but you asked. 
)
I have three damage and two acc SO's in each attack,pluss one disorient on Bone Smasher. energy punch or whatever it's called is only one acc and one disorient SO. Give or take (writing on bad memory.)
Forget Dis Dur enhancements the ammount of time they're stunned for makes little difference. Put a recharge in there instead.
World of Jackcraft.
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Also, many ppl playing stalkers are COWARDS by nature. I almost can't count the times where I've spent a minute or two fighting a Brute, I am down to around half health and so is the brute, then all of a sudden ASSASSIN STRIKE is printed over my head in large, red and above all unfriendly letters, and I wake up dead.
<snip)
Yes, I say again. It's not the GAME that breaks PvP, it's the PLAYERS that can't seem to fight fair if it depended on the life of their grandmother.
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I wouldn't interfere with someone elses fight without an invitation to do so but you have to remember that striking a weak(ened) opponent out of the blue is what stalkers were designed for. A stalker can't stand toe to toe with an opponent so what looks like a fair fight to you would be impossible odds for a stalker. If you want stalkers to stand in front of you letting you hit them, you'll need to petition NCSoft to turn them all into scrappers.
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If you want stalkers to stand in front of you letting you hit them, you'll need to petition NCSoft to turn them all into scrappers.
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I see what you are saying, but in all honesty, I've had my butt handed to me by a stalker who missed his AS. Mostly because his defense was incredible.(Yes, this has only happened ONCE in well over 10 hours in Sirens, because EVERY OTHER stalker that misses me with their AS runs away promptly afterwards) And insane defense is something they also have going for them. What blasters have is slightly higher damage for bread'n'butter attacks, but not so much that it's their obvious advantage. Stalkers obvious advantages is the ability to stack Hide with Stealth, their INSANE assassin strike AND very very high defense.
If I'd have any say in this matter, I'd leave their defense as it is, AS as it is, and add a parameter to hide that made it either impossible to use stealth with hide, or something they had to sacrifice to be able to use them both together. I have used 2 pool power sets just to be able to protect myself somewhat against stalkers and still it's not enough -by far-. Stalkers can (almost) NEVER have a fair fight, because against 90% of the hero population, they have an unfair advantage that it's impossible for us to overcome.
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I see what you are saying, but in all honesty, I've had my butt handed to me by a stalker who missed his AS. Mostly because his defense was incredible.(Yes, this has only happened ONCE in well over 10 hours in Sirens, because EVERY OTHER stalker that misses me with their AS runs away promptly afterwards) And insane defense is something they also have going for them. What blasters have is slightly higher damage for bread'n'butter attacks, but not so much that it's their obvious advantage. Stalkers obvious advantages is the ability to stack Hide with Stealth, their INSANE assassin strike AND very very high defense.
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You're kidding, right? You do know the highest defence value on ANY stalker toggle is the 55% (iirc) AoE defence that SR stalkers get with Evade, and that's not even avaliable in sirens. Stalker defence with three +3 SO's in it hits around 25-30%. What you were probably fighting was a stalker who had exploited the fact that it's possible to click Kuji-In Reitsu, Elude or Overload before you enter the zone and keep the defence values once they get in. While that needs to be fixed, the defence values DEFINITELY aren't high (with the exception of the powers I stated earlier, but they're all clicks and last for about a minute each with a recharge of about 5).
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If I'd have any say in this matter, I'd leave their defense as it is, AS as it is, and add a parameter to hide that made it either impossible to use stealth with hide, or something they had to sacrifice to be able to use them both together. I have used 2 pool power sets just to be able to protect myself somewhat against stalkers and still it's not enough -by far-. Stalkers can (almost) NEVER have a fair fight, because against 90% of the hero population, they have an unfair advantage that it's impossible for us to overcome.
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1. Stealth and hide isn't overpowered, and it's counterable.
2. Your idea of a "fair fight" is a stalkers idea of a nightmare. Once they've AS'd, thats it. They really are one trick ponies and nothing more.
3. Which two power pool sets did you pick up? My ice/nrg blaster friend has no +perception powers, yet he has absolutely no trouble with stalkers. On the same point, nor do I and I play the squishiest AT in the game!
As Xanthus says, Stalkers do have insane defence, insanely weak that is FAR less than scrappers. A good player can counter even the best stalkers.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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A good player can counter even the best stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ] Trust me on this, with Tactics, IR-Goggles and a medium yellow pill I couldn't see 4 out of 5 stalkers in the zone (at the time I tried). In one case, I was hovering right above one of them (I know he was there, because he was my bounty and the waypoint updated two-three times while I was there, looking straight at him.)
And howcome I miss some stalkers with every attack I have, when I have two acc SO's in each and I have just popped a yellow and buildup?
I don't think ANYONE should be completely safe in a PvP zone. SPECIALLY when it only counts for ONE AT.
I wouldn't cry if stalkers got some new bonus, like more hp, bigger damage while un-hidden or whatever it is. My point is that with stealth the stalker is totally undetectable by anyone who don't have devices and targeting drone (or a 4+ person team where everyone has tactics and stays within eachothers area of effect). And that is a WAY too narrow weakness. I as a blaster have weakness to most anything anyone cares to throw at me. I have NO resistances, not much more hp than stalkers, and apart from the tiny bonus given by stealth NO defense. We can of course use Manouvers, but with an active travel power, it is impossible to run along with something. All we have is a miniscule amount more damage than others. But as I have been told repeatedly in-game, scrappers and brutes (and in one case I was told) tanks can apparently "easily" match that, and they still have (I don't know the numbers here but bare with me) twice the hp AND resistances/defenses to boot.
But this isn't about blasters, and I'm not asking for any increase in either damage or hp or anything else. I'm asking for some fair way of countering the stealth abilities of a stalker. And I've come up with MANY suggestions to this, that is both fair and easily implementable. But of course, since ppl choose stalkers because they do have this unfair advantage over everyone else, the same said stalker players argue heavily against them all. And my suggestions HAVE been VERY FAIR.
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A good player can counter even the best stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ] Trust me on this, with Tactics, IR-Goggles and a medium yellow pill I couldn't see 4 out of 5 stalkers in the zone (at the time I tried). In one case, I was hovering right above one of them (I know he was there, because he was my bounty and the waypoint updated two-three times while I was there, looking straight at him.)
And howcome I miss some stalkers with every attack I have, when I have two acc SO's in each and I have just popped a yellow and buildup?
I don't think ANYONE should be completely safe in a PvP zone. SPECIALLY when it only counts for ONE AT.
I wouldn't cry if stalkers got some new bonus, like more hp, bigger damage while un-hidden or whatever it is. My point is that with stealth the stalker is totally undetectable by anyone who don't have devices and targeting drone (or a 4+ person team where everyone has tactics and stays within eachothers area of effect). And that is a WAY too narrow weakness. I as a blaster have weakness to most anything anyone cares to throw at me. I have NO resistances, not much more hp than stalkers, and apart from the tiny bonus given by stealth NO defense. We can of course use Manouvers, but with an active travel power, it is impossible to run along with something. All we have is a miniscule amount more damage than others. But as I have been told repeatedly in-game, scrappers and brutes (and in one case I was told) tanks can apparently "easily" match that, and they still have (I don't know the numbers here but bare with me) twice the hp AND resistances/defenses to boot.
But this isn't about blasters, and I'm not asking for any increase in either damage or hp or anything else. I'm asking for some fair way of countering the stealth abilities of a stalker. And I've come up with MANY suggestions to this, that is both fair and easily implementable. But of course, since ppl choose stalkers because they do have this unfair advantage over everyone else, the same said stalker players argue heavily against them all. And my suggestions HAVE been VERY FAIR.
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Trust me, having lived in Sirens call and amassing well over 1000 pvp points on my stalker I can tell you there are PLENTY of ways to kill stalkers, and plenty of characters who can see me with hide and stealth stacked. Also a single stalker no matter how good will have a VERY tough time killing a properly slotted regen (Singhmc im looking at you :P)
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Except your suggestions have left the Stalkers with nothing - sneaking up and one shotting is all they have, if they don't have that they might aswell not bother coming into a PvP zone, since they have nothing going for them.
World of Jackcraft.
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Except your suggestions have left the Stalkers with nothing - sneaking up and one shotting is all they have, if they don't have that they might aswell not bother coming into a PvP zone, since they have nothing going for them.
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No Mr. Hobo, I have not "left them with nothing". I have given them a weakness like -every other AT has-.
Like my Trait idea, that in the course of the game, you get to chose two things your toon is good at, one of the choises is increased perception (and like all the others) with the option to enhance. If you chose this instead of any of the other, like... 20 traits, you sacrifice something else. And as a stalker OF COURSE you can choose to get better at stealthy movement. or more hp, or more damage, or more resistance to hold/sleep, or faster end recovery. If you chose one of these you can't have any of the others. I can't see ANY WAY this is unfair to stalkers, as perhaps 2% of the ppl will chose the one that's bad for stalkers. If it's unfair to stalkers, then it's unfair to controllers, corruptors, blasters, brutes... well. you get it. Every person has a strength, but every person has several potential weaknesses. But of course, I've thought about this for a whole 2 minutes, so there are lots that must be done. like exclude hp/end recovery for Regen powersets, and such, but the finer points isn't really my job to hatch out.
And in any case. this is only one of the ideas I've put out as a solution, but this will solve many other issues as well. (like blasters/corruptors/controllers/defenders lack of hp... IF THEY CHOOSE TO.)
To Obot, tell me then, how to spot you sneaky laser-humpers, because I've tried every other tip I've gotten here on the boards (often many together), and nothing has worked against stealth and hide. Maybe you guys have yet another trick up your sleeve that I don't know about. Maybe it's just me that don't look at the screen from the correct angle, or I'm just an imbecile. (I don't look completely away from the latter suggestion, but I can actually see every other orange name that bounce across my screen, so you do the math.)
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No Mr. Hobo, I have not "left them with nothing". I have given them a weakness like -every other AT has-.
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But they have a weakness? Scrappers can go toe to toe with most things, Stalkers can't, ergo Stalkers 'have a weakness'.
TBH, I don't think your trait idea will work, besides the fact that it exists already at much higher levels with Accolades anyways, what you are merely proposing is accolades that can be attained at much earlier lvls, with some accolades unavailable to your toon because you've already taken some other accolades.
If you think your Acc & Dam sucks in a PvP zone? Try playing an empath...
I'm sorry for turning this into another "anti stalker thread", but the stalker issues is apparently the only thing ppl are ready to comment on.
What everyone else must understand, is that stalkers are only afraid they are going to lose their advantage over everyone else. If it hadn't been a problem, the boards WOULDN'T be full of "nerf ze stalkers" threads.
I'm trying to come up with an idea to even out the current issues WITHOUT nerfing stalkers. I don't want stalkers to be underdogs, because that lessens the joy of killing them and increases the embarrasment of being defeated by them. I'm trying to give everyone a fair chance. but OF COURSE the pvp'ing stalkers don't want to listen. they are the one with the advantage. OF COURSE they don't see the problem. And it's not just on the EU boards this problem is being posted an masse, it's ALL OVER the US boards too. Why? Because there IS a problem.
Anyways, accolades are removed when exemped, as do -any other power- that is earned after the said level restriction. Anyway, the Trait system isn't just there to balance AT's against each other, it's there to further give your character a unique feel. I know you get some super-special (EXTREME DUDE!) powers after level 40something, but that don't help in a lvl 30 pvp zone, and the powers you get to choose from are in any case not available to everyone.
You don't think the Trait system is better than a nerf that's going to affect EVERY stalker, and most likely ONLY stalkers? I don't mind the 1 shot issue either, as long as I have the CHOICE to be able to spot them before they kill me, something I cannot do at this time, and that is the reason I get PO'd about it.
I'm not trying to get stalkers "nerfed", I'm trying to solve a problem without them being nerfed, because nerfed they WILL be if something all new isn't implemented. I know I'm repeating myself, but some of you people seem intent on not reading my posts before flaming them.
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, it's ALL OVER the US boards too. Why? Because there IS a problem.
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No. It's because too many people are too lazy to put any effort into it. They think the same tactics apply to every AT.
Again with not reading my posts. I already said I've tried every tactic that's been offered to me, most of the time I use several at the same time, and they STILL don't work. Do you think I'd go through all this trouble if I'd found a solution? I've been on teams where at least one other person apart from me had tactics, I used IR-Goggles, and popped a medium yellow at that one half little second where you see the little bugger, and still he vanishes before my very eyes. even though I'm practicly standing on top of him. What, does En/en blasters have some as of yet unheard of Perception dysfunction? In that case I want it to be named The Sixkilla Disorder, because I got it like a [censored].
What I tell you are FACT, I wouldn't spend hours arguing my case if it wasn't true. like I said repeatedly, I don't want AT's nerfed, I want AT's to be evened out. And (in fear of blowing my own horn) the trait system would quite elegantly do just this. 
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I know I'm repeating myself, but some of you people seem intent on not reading my posts before flaming them.
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Then stop repeating yourself, I've already told you that if Stalkers can't sneak up and one shot someone (Which they wouldn't be able to do if you could see them) they have nothing.
World of Jackcraft.
So you actually think it's FAIR that EVERY SINGLE stalker in the WHOLE GAME can COMPLETELY undetected by ANYONE (no matter what powers they chose) sneak up on ppl and ONESHOT 3/5s of the hero population, and twoshot the rest?
With more than 2 stalkers in a zone this will (and DOES) create a SIGNIFICANT advantage to the villains. Because where there's one stalker, you will more often than not find at least 4-5.
Edit: And I've been trying SO hard to remain objective here... Sorry about this post.
Not every single Stalker takes Stealth.
They aren't completely undetectable by anyone, I think the trouble you're having is that the perception bonus offered by Tactics for a Blaster is less than that offered by a Controller/Defender. But tactics from a Defender +IR goggles/Clear Mind/one of the many other perception buffs in the game should be enough to detect Stalkers with Hide+Stealth.
What do you think a Stalker has going for him if people can see him? NOTHING.
Either Stalkers go as they are and one-shot squishies causing lots of whining on the forums, or they get nerfed (Yes, if people can see them that counts as a nerf to me) and no one plays them because they are [censored], a poor man's Scrapper, which can't do crits, does less damage and takes less too.
It's more un-fair your way than the way it is, IMO.
World of Jackcraft.
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It's more un-fair your way than the way it is, IMO.
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Definately.
I play as a blaster mostly in PvP...and sure, Stalkers kill me...but I also kill them, with IR Goggles and/or yellows I can usually spot them, if only for a second...which gives me time to get ready (pop Aim + BU, wait for the AS...then hit 'em with 100% defiance).
It's truly incredible to me that ppl are in no way prepared to meet on the golden middle way. With the trait system, only the (maybe) 3-4% of the ppl that choose the perception trait will be able to see a stalker with stealth and hide, but they will have to stack that perception trait like mad to see stalkers that have the "sneaky" trait, and probably wont be able to see a stalker that has enhanced his sneakyness. I don't have a problem with not seeing stalkers that has had to sacrifice something in order to gain that level of un-see-ability. The way it is now, every stalker CAN POTENTIALLY be totally invisible to everyone. I think EVERYONE deserves an equal chance.
Would it be soooo saaaad for you guys if 4% of the hero population had an even chance against you? Oh no!!! Now you can't sit on Hero Square(TM) and eat your lunch! What about me as a blaster? I can NEVER (EVER) stay still for anything more than 2 seconds for fear of a sneaky bugger one-shotting me. I do not think this is fair.
Edit: My biggest problem is that all you have to do to be totally invisible to everyone is to choose the stealth pool power and nothing I do will counter that. I got tactics to be able to see you better (which I don't in any case) and stealth for the tiny tiny defensive bonus it gives so I won't get one-shotted -every single time-. I have a travel pool power like everyone else and I have fitness for stamina to be able to fight with tactics, stealth AND the travel power active. This is ALL to be a veeery small amount safer from stalkers, and it STILL isn't enough. Where as stalkers are free to do as they like as long as they get stealth. Again. NOT FAIR.
Knowing when to run and when to duke it out.
Being fast enough to use heals before, you are dead.
Knowing what attack to use at what moment.
Knowing how to kite properly.
Moving in the right way.
Its more important in both PvE and PvP, than people say.
Im not sure The Ninja Pornstars won on the defiant server due to builds alone. I know it really helped, but it wasnt the only reason. Our team used TS, which made sure we could coordinate better than most teams.
In the last fight on the test server we had about equal builds and why did we loose?
Cause we were unable to use the right attack at the right moment. Cause we didnt stop DN quickly enough (Fx. using a hold on the caster). Cause we were unable to lock them lay down debuffs fast enough, Cause we didnt hit the right targets at the right time. Cause the other team forced us to attack, which was actually our own fault (We won the first encounter and didnt stand still and just wait for them to attack)
The game isnt about stats only. Believe me, if it was, I wasnt still here.
A Paragon Defender