Hopfuly "Going Rogue" = no more levels
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2009-07-27 07:36 in Suggestions and Ideas
QR
is it just me, or did anyone else feel their brain turn to mush and iq points spill out of their ears while reading the OP's responses?
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At 140+ characters, almost all of them in the teens or higher (I get to level 14 ASAP after creation), it is no great chore to play for a bit before I find my team.
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LOL, that alone I think makes you unable to empathise.
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As long as the difficulty is appropriately set, it doesn't matter whether the Controller is a Fire / Kin or an Ice / Storm, whether the Defender is Dark / Sonic or Trick Arrow / Archery, or whether the Tank is Stone / Super Strength or Ice / Ice.
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yes, but the pace of the game changes and the reward changes and that can discourage players from wanting to play. The goal should be to help players be able to play at the pace they desire as easy as possible...within the limits of the game (not talking about power leveling or farming, but a normal eightman team). Not to make the players have to conform to a pace due to lack of players to play with.
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The point is that it is the the perception that the reward and pace of the game based upon the party make-up isn't worth it.
[/ QUOTE ] reguardless it's the peoples perception that is going to keep them coming back to COH and not some other game. Again you can quibble about what "you" think people should percieve, but that doesn't change the reality that if people do percive that the game is slow they will look for a game that they don't percieve as slow. Nitwits or not if they don't support the game that means less assets for the game to expand with.
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If you are staring at the screen, it is because you have made the choice to do so. I have told you how I play. I get on teams becasue I am patient.
[/ QUOTE ] And if people don't have fun playing how "you" say they should they should just keep playing anyway? You hoestly think these people aren't trying toi have fun? Perhaps they just don't find the same things fun as you do. Sorry, but that comes off not only very arrogant, but niave as hell. You ever think that with the time to create and level 140+ characters that the cost of milling about in game filling time might not be the same to you as most other people?
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You have the same choice. It is a boring wait for you because you seem to have certain requirements that you have imposed on your gameplay.
[/ QUOTE ] Sure, I do, however, the vast majority of people do. Particularly people with other responsibilities and limited play time. You want to make this about me and what I do or don't do. What I'm telling you is that this is a problem with coh being competitive in the upcoming market. The people at home who play every day for several hours are not going to be able to support COH.
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I don't want to send out tells for 15-20 minutes looking for players, either, which is why I have a hard limit of five minutes (or less, if the team that I have is getting antsy), and then I start. If you won't start without a full team, you have made the choice to bore yourself and the rest of your team while you search for that perfect team configuration.
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Again you can tell people what they "should do" but that's not what people byinlarge want to do. It might be what they put up with, but given the option they won't.
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So, explain again to me how the Skulls, a lowly street gang, should still be posing a challenge to a team that took down the Freedom Phalanx?
[/ QUOTE ] I don't think they do. a full team of level 50's are going to sweep right through a skull mission. The level system makes that immersion worse though...why should something I beat the crap out of all the time now be untouchable because it's a higher level?
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Bwuh?!! Weren't you just saying that you wanted to make level 50 Skulls. Even if they don't get any more powers or mobs, they will still have level 50 mob hit points. How does this NOT break immersion.
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There is already code to adjust mobs hit points ect, but you don't need to add new powers and such as you suggested. As for immersion how is not having a better chain of attacks, mpre defenses(more powers) and being able to hit with more accuracy/damage not being better (enhancements)?
Yeah it's far more immersive to run by a guy whose robbing a purse and just ignores you...eerr not.
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But, if there is no difficulty,
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then don't fight them, no ones forcing you too. there are a lot of things that aren't a challenge now. I assume you don't chooser to do them.
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why should you be earning XP?
[/ QUOTE ] More importantly, why shouldn't you be earning xp on scale to their difficulty? Why should skulls be no challange and no one else get any reward simply because you wanted to play too?
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QR
is it just me, or did anyone else feel their brain turn to mush and iq points spill out of their ears while reading the OP's responses?
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It seems clear to me that the problem the OP is having isn't one the devs can fix by changing something in the game. The source of the problem the OP is having lies between the chair the OP sits in and the keyboard he uses to play the game.
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QR
is it just me, or did anyone else feel their brain turn to mush and iq points spill out of their ears while reading the OP's responses?
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Is it just me or is it pathetic when people are to dense to add anything to a dicussion. So, they just troll because someone has the nerve to actually criticize somthing and it might actually tarnish their rose colored glasses.
just saying
look. if you want to find teams all the time and play with varying lv toons then go to the AE and run wild. i haven't seen anyone tell you this yet, so there it is. everything you pretty much asked for except the con-ing thing.
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Is it just me
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Yes. It's just you.
lol. ok. just checking 
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Is it just me
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Yes. It's just you.
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I get it. You don't like the idea, noted. But as you seem to have nothing to add, other then attempting to belittle me for no reason other then your unsupported disagreement; Why don't you go troll somewhere else? It's not like I am forcing you to read this thread. All your pain could be gone simply by going away.
Edit: That's not to suggest I don't find value in people simply stating they don't like the idea. I do. i am aware the idea doesn't seem popular although thus far the reasons given for the discontent seem pretty thin to me.
1. Why should I repeat what the other posters have already said?
2. This is only the second time I responded to anything you have said.
In my other posts I was responding to other forum members. If you don't like the conversations I'm having with other people you can use the ignore feature and you'll never have to see anything I say again.
The only person that seems to be having any distress is you. You haven't been able to refute any of the arguments presented and now you are resorting to name calling.
and incase you were calling me a troll, i see very very very very few people if even 1 that supports this idea. and i think the 1 is you. that right there should tell you something. a bad idea is a bad idea no matter how many times you keep telling yourself it isn't. and using phrases like "in my view" means it is your opinion. and obviously you are the only one who feels this way.
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and incase you were calling me a troll, i see very very very very few people if even 1 that supports this idea. and i think the 1 is you. that right there should tell you something. a bad idea is a bad idea no matter how many times you keep telling yourself it isn't. and using phrases like "in my view" means it is your opinion. and obviously you are the only one who feels this way.
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And if he's calling you a troll because you live under a bridge and eat billygoats, well that's profiling and profiling is wrong.
I've been watching this thread, and I'm still a little confused as to what exactly the suggestion is. If it's to make everyone on the team a set level similar to what AE does, then I wouldn't mind. It would return some flavor to the regular content that everyone is getting away from. If it's to get rid of level completely similar to rikti raids and zombie attacks, then no, I'm not for that.
If anything like this were to be implemented, they old sk system should also remain in place. I have to admit that being able to grab lvl 22+ instead of +-5 levels is a very appealing aspect to AE and would work great in regular content.
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When I log on, it is because I want to play a hero or villain. I log on, make sure my LFT flag is appropriately set, and set to work, whether that be fighting crime or busting heads for fun and profit. All the while I am doing that, I am advancing my character. I am earning XP, Inflamy, Prestige and drops that I don't have to share with anyone. I am gaining levels. I am selling my drops for even more inflamy. I crafting Invention Enhancements. All productive things that I can be doing while waiting for the inevitible invite (yes, inevitible, as I get invites whether my LFT flag is up or down).
The presence or not presence of a team has zero effect on my desire to fight crimes or bust heads.
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But it does to me, sometimes. When I want to find a team, I like being able to join or make a team quickly without having to sit around forever. AE gives that to this game, and I see no harm in allowing it in regular content if it's implemented the exact same way it is implemented in AE.
I realize that their are people who don't PUG, but I'm willing to wager that more than double the people that don't PUG do PUG. I draw this assessment through being able to find/form PUG's rather quickly in AE or elsewhere. Not being able to form teams quickly is one of the core reasons I hate WoW and many other MMO's which are level based. The sidekick system improves this issue in Co*, but the auto level feature in AE blows away the SK system in this aspect.
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If you are staring at the screen, it is because you have made the choice to do so. I have told you how I play. I get on teams becasue I am patient. I don't get bored while waiting for the team invites to roll in because I get right to playing the game from the minute I log in.
You have the same choice. It is a boring wait for you because you seem to have certain requirements that you have imposed on your gameplay.
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I play similar to the OP when I want to play on a team. I enjoy finding a team quickly using AE. Just yell out in atlas "Level 50 *whatever* looking for team" and I'm usually pulled into some sort of team. If I don't want to farm, I'll start my own AE team of any levels I want to grab. I absolutly *hate* joining a team and standing around for 25 minutes waiting for the OP to fill the team. That almost never happens in AE, and only happens if the guy with the star is a picky leader. I tend to play toons that can steam roll almost anything solo, so for me as a team leader, I don't care what I grab.
Pre AE, I remember standing around for 25 minutes on a team because I was #2 on the team.
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I don't want to send out tells for 15-20 minutes looking for players, either, which is why I have a hard limit of five minutes (or less, if the team that I have is getting antsy), and then I start. If you won't start without a full team, you have made the choice to bore yourself and the rest of your team while you search for that perfect team configuration.
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This I agree with wholeheartedly, but there are many people out there who wants to get a full team. I personally like running teams of 7 to allow someone on the team the potential to invite a friend. If it takes me longer than 5 minutes to start a team I'll start the mission, and let whoever wants to leave leave, or I'll just push the power button on my cable modem 
Ooops! I DC'd!
What I won't do is run on a team with less than 4 people if I want to make a team. Any less than 4 people (unless it's not a PUG) and I'll just solo.
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Your suggestion does nothing to provide incentive for the a player to have the star.
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But it makes having the star far less of a burden. ie time suck.
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A self imposed time suck, I might add.
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This is a legitimate problem. Just last night, I was teaming with a friend, he was level 50, and he had to start the AE mission otherwise he would have been fighting level 47's instead of 50's. He made me form the team because it was to much hassel to look for people. I can empathise with this, because I'm usually the guy looking for teammates. I then passed the star when it was a full team. This was an AE mission and took me 4 mintues to fill out a team of 8. If it were regular content, I shudder to think how long it would have taken ..... Hi brian! (You know who you are )
TLDR: If the OP's suggestion is to make level adjusting similar to AE, then /signed.
If the OP's suggestion is to make level adjusting similar to Rikti Attacks and Zombie Attacks, /unsigned.
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I've been watching this thread, and I'm still a little confused as to what exactly the suggestion is. If it's to make everyone on the team a set level similar to what AE does, then I wouldn't mind. . [/b]
[/ QUOTE ] Basiclly, that's the idea. The mob difficulty is based upon whatever the difficulty of the mission is set at, but it's the same difficulty reguardless of level of any individual player. The only difference being that if the player is a higher level then the mission difficulty you wouldn't loose any of your powers and would still gain normal rewards.
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I've been watching this thread, and I'm still a little confused as to what exactly the suggestion is. If it's to make everyone on the team a set level similar to what AE does, then I wouldn't mind. . [/b]
[/ QUOTE ] Basiclly, that's the idea.
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Then I don't see any issues. Factual evidence as to how this feature is performing can be drawn directly from the success of AE, and my guess is that's why level adjusting in AE is the way it is; as an experiment to see if it should be added to regular content. At least that's what I think. I could be wrong, and it might all just be a nemesis plot ....
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Then I don't see any issues. ...and my guess is that's why level adjusting in AE is the way it is; as an experiment to see if it should be added to regular content. At least that's what I think.
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That's my thought/hope as well. hence the thread title.
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QR
I think the idea is to apply the Giant Monster code to all mobs. So that all mobs would be even cons. If so,
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Not because of the rewards, but because it would suck any and all challenge from the game unless mobs were rebalanced with this in mind.
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I'd like to see this apply to mobs in the world but not in missions.
Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.
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QR
I think the idea is to apply the Giant Monster code to all mobs. So that all mobs would be even cons. If so,
/unsigned.
Not because of the rewards, but because it would suck any and all challenge from the game unless mobs were rebalanced with this in mind.
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I'd like to see this apply to mobs in the world but not in missions.
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I could get behind this aspect too.
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QR
I think the idea is to apply the Giant Monster code to all mobs. So that all mobs would be even cons. If so,
ability
/unsigned.
Not because of the rewards, but because it would suck any and all challenge from the game unless mobs were rebalanced with this in mind.
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I'd like to see this apply to mobs in the world but not in missions.
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I could get behind this aspect too.
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/unsigned. I'll give you my ability to mass-kill lowbie Skulls in Perez Park when you take it from my cold dead hands.
Oh and also it makes no sense. The entire purpose of the leveling system is to represent the progression of your character's powers, abilities and skills. A demi-god should not face any significant native threats when he returns to his old stomping grounds.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Oh and also it makes no sense. The entire purpose of the leveling system is to represent the progression of your character's powers, abilities and skills. A demi-god should not face any significant native threats when he returns to his old stomping grounds.
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To late ... It's called Oro Missions.
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no, that's not the idea. that would be true about street mobs (but there isn't any real street cleaning done any more)
[/ QUOTE ]Right, so people like me don't count.
Leave my hazard zones alone. >:|
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Oh and also it makes no sense. The entire purpose of the leveling system is to represent the progression of your character's powers, abilities and skills. A demi-god should not face any significant native threats when he returns to his old stomping grounds.
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To late ... It's called Oro Missions.
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Doesn't apply to zones, which is part of what people are suggesting here. Also Ouroboros involves time travel -- your character exists as they were in the past when they Flashback. What people are suggesting is that what we know now as a level 5 Hellion should still con evenly to you even when you're level 50.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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their is already a sytem implemented that scales xp based on the difficulty of mobs. a level 10 hellion doesn't/wouldn't give the same xp as a level 10 carnie for example. And, again this is already true with the AE system, it doesn't change the status quo.
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A level 10 Carnie? Are you serious? There is a reason the level divide exists - it's to keep high-level content high-level. A villain fresh out of the Zig has no business attempting the Time After Time arc, and a hero fresh out of Outbreak has no business taking on Malta, the specialised super hero hunters. Content ramps up in both scale and importance as you progress through the levels, and though you may have done it all and know it all, a new player experience where you go straight to the end game is NOT ideal.
And look at it on the flip side. Why the HELL would my level 50 hero trekking through Atlas Park find a deadbeat Hellion a meaningful challenge? Right now, I can walk up to them and sneeze in their general direction, and they'll drop like flies. I LIKE that. It's a demonstration of how powerful I've become these past 50 levels. Overshotting a Hellion for about 20-40 times his total hit points is COOL. It's not useful, it's not productive, but it's COOL.
As far as I'm concerned, letting the Architect auto-SK was a mistake. I'd sooner a single person allowed to SK 7 other team-mates than see all content opened to all levels all the time. At least with even a wide-scale SK system, you still need one high-level character with access to the content to take the new guys through it. You don't just hand every shmuck who signed up for a Hero ID the key to the city.
I am firmly against any idea that lets low-level characters access high-level content by themselves and that makes low-level enemies con white to high-level characters.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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<off topic>
I hope the new forums has a feature that prevents people from 5 starring their own threads.
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While the OP's idea isn't really feaseable, I empathize with what he's wanting, which is essentially a broader playing field.
Similiarly, I wish there was some incentive for higher level characters to go back to 'lower' zones on occasion. I like playing my 50s; I love the zones of Striga and Croatoa - but they went their separate ways long ago...
I wish there was some mechanic where I could go to those zones on a 50, explore a bit, and experience a challenging fight here or there. The OP's mechanic would allow that, but brings in a whole slew of other problems.
Even so, I wish there was *some* way to do it...
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Go to Ourobouros, start a Flashback mission in that level range, and you will be autosidekicked down to that level. You can even do all of the Croatoa story arcs via Ourobouros if you missed them on the way up. The fights can even be made more challenging. There are settings where you can't use Inspirations, or Termporary Powers, or your powers are unenhanced.
Wish granted?
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Not really. I like playing my 'Fifties', with their full slew of powers, chance for purple drops, etc. On occasion, I'll go to Oro, go back in time and adventure with my less powerful toon, but overall I want to play my 50.
So, I'm pretty much stuck in PI, RWZ, Cimm, and the Shards (and the occasional TF). I still think it would be nice if 50's had something to do in every zone. I once recommended that for 50's only, that Radio/Paper missions work in every zone. In essence, a 50 is flagged as a global power, in effect has become a global force and there's a need for her in every zone. If that implemented it would atisfy me, but the idea didn't draw much interest.
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because if I jump on wanting to team and I'm killing time as you put it. I consider that down time. I think most people would. If your not really enjoying yourself and just filling time so you can do what you want to do ( for more then a few seconds here and there) ...then there is something wrong.
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I think we may be getting to the root of our differences. When I log on, it is because I want to play a hero or villain. I log on, make sure my LFT flag is appropriately set, and set to work, whether that be fighting crime or busting heads for fun and profit. All the while I am doing that, I am advancing my character. I am earning XP, Inflamy, Prestige and drops that I don't have to share with anyone. I am gaining levels. I am selling my drops for even more inflamy. I crafting Invention Enhancements. All productive things that I can be doing while waiting for the inevitible invite (yes, inevitible, as I get invites whether my LFT flag is up or down).
The presence or not presence of a team has zero effect on my desire to fight crimes or bust heads.
For the record, I do this this with characters of all Archetypes and Powersets. At 140+ characters, almost all of them in the teens or higher (I get to level 14 ASAP after creation), it is no great chore to play for a bit before I find my team. Once I have the team, I switch my Defenders, Tanks, Controllers and Corruptors to their "team builds" and head towards the mission. If I still want to play after the teams fall apart, I switch back to the solo builds and head to the next mission.
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There is no setting lower than Heroic (by the way, your idea completely removes the ability for a player who is being challenged on Heroic to gain a level to make things easier.
[/ QUOTE ] if that's an issue add one.
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It has been intimated that our new difficulty slider will go lower as well as higher. We'll find out in a few weeks.
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I have played with many good players in my 5 years of playing, but as you know it also depends on the type of controller/tank/defender. you can quibble all you want, but the point is that not all powers sets are as compatible as others and the game is balanced (primarily) with full teams or solo in mind.
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As long as the difficulty is appropriately set, it doesn't matter whether the Controller is a Fire / Kin or an Ice / Storm, whether the Defender is Dark / Sonic or Trick Arrow / Archery, or whether the Tank is Stone / Super Strength or Ice / Ice.
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The point is at some level the reward and pace of the game based upon the party make-up isn't worth it. That varies depending on the individual, but most people aren't going to stand for running with 2-3 teams 25-50% of the time they play. You can say they should do sonething else and keep them selves busy in other ways as much as you want, but they will and it will be not playing this game.
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The point is that it is the the perception that the reward and pace of the game based upon the party make-up isn't worth it. Just like there are a bunch of nitwits that don't understand that the xp and drops will flow faster on Unyielding than they will on Invincible unless you have a true steamroller of a team. For the average PUG, the time wasted fighting +2 and +3 Boss spawns is much better spent plowing through piles of +1 and +2 Lieutenants and Minions.
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You are playing a video game. One of the many definitions of "killing time."
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But that doesn't mean you don't have goals or want to set in front of a blank screen because you are wasting time. When I want to play, I want to jump on and play not have to find things to do in hopes that I can play either. Most people are like that.
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If you are staring at the screen, it is because you have made the choice to do so. I have told you how I play. I get on teams becasue I am patient. I don't get bored while waiting for the team invites to roll in because I get right to playing the game from the minute I log in.
You have the same choice. It is a boring wait for you because you seem to have certain requirements that you have imposed on your gameplay.
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So, the de facto leader doesn't have to worry about sidekicks or exemplars any more? I'm pretty sure, just like you are, that they still won't want the star because it still requires them to take responibility for something.
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Like I said it has to do with time. Most people don't want to send out tells for 15-20 minutes looking for players. Broading the field makes it much easier to find players.
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I don't want to send out tells for 15-20 minutes looking for players, either, which is why I have a hard limit of five minutes (or less, if the team that I have is getting antsy), and then I start. If you won't start without a full team, you have made the choice to bore yourself and the rest of your team while you search for that perfect team configuration.
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Your suggestion does nothing to provide incentive for the a player to have the star.
[/ QUOTE ] But it makes having the star far less of a burden. ie time suck.
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A self imposed time suck, I might add.
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So, explain again to me how the Skulls, a lowly street gang, should still be posing a challenge to a team that took down the Freedom Phalanx?
[/ QUOTE ] I don't think they do. a full team of level 50's are going to sweep right through a skull mission. The level system makes that immersion worse though...why should something I beat the crap out of all the time now be untouchable because it's a higher level?
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Nor have you addressed that in order to do so, you would need to add 30 levels of capability to the Skulls (new mobs, expanded power selection, etc.).
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actually, I have touched on it. essentually you don't. a skull is a skull is a skull.
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Bwuh?!! Weren't you just saying that you wanted to make level 50 Skulls. Even if they don't get any more powers or mobs, they will still have level 50 mob hit points. How does this NOT break immersion. You were plowing your way through these guys 30 levels ago. They should fall over now because you look at them crosseyed. They should be begging your lvel 50 Villains not to crush them like the insects that they are.
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If you are going to gut the experience so much that they aren't worth fighting, why bother fighting them?
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I didn't say I was going to gut the xp, I said the xp is already balanced based upon their difficulty.
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But, if there is no difficulty,
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a full team of level 50's are going to sweep right through a skull mission.
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a skull is a skull is a skull
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why should you be earning XP?
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)