Hopfuly "Going Rogue" = no more levels
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2009-07-27 07:36 in Suggestions and Ideas
paradox NA,
It's not a suggestion that I personally would be on board for. Also, when they announce something like Rogue, it has been in the works for quite a while and they're probably not going to change something like the leveling system at the last minute. Things like that can effect the way the entire game runs.
My Global Chat Handle: @The Dreaming Shadow
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Yeah, the negative responses given thus far seem like knee jerk responses (or simply trolling, both which anytime you post anything you have to expect) to the idea of changing things in general. The arguments of it making it to easy to farm, not challenging or it allowing players to access content to early all already exsist under the current system and usually even worse then what I'm suggesting.|
Originally Posted by Folonius
So what are some of these reasons why the AE sk sytem is bad? I haven't seen any in this thread yet.
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Making it eaiser for people to team together and find players to play with will only serve to add to the vast majority of players enjoyment and thus help the game. The arguments made asking as to why that would be important, or does not need to be done, are completly asinine. As Foloinis stated the success of AE would suggest that this would be something that people would want.
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You mean like the idea of having a level 1 Hellion be a meaningful threat to a level 50 hero and a level 1 hero be a meaningful threat to a level 50 Council, say? Or did I neglect to post this in yet another "no more levels" thread? The point of levels is to denote progress through an obvious increase in strength. An expansion of the SK/LK system to allow one player to bring along more friends (potentially an entire team) is something that may be somewhat acceptable, but plain opening all levels of content to all levels of players, both up and down, is decidedly not an idea I can get behind.|
Originally Posted by paradox_NA
Yeah, the negative responses given thus far seem like knee jerk responses (or simply trolling, both which anytime you post anything you have to expect) to the idea of changing things in general.
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Ever.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I know I'm only perpetuating the problem. I should just ignore it, because he's not going to listen anyway. But I'll bite.
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You can still bombard hellions and save people from muggers, there's just no reward. Why would there be? It's a task that is below you and there are other heroes you're stealing work from. "Gee, thanks for getting my cat out of the tree, Superman, but my neighbor had a ladder he was bringing anyway..."|
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I believe you meant powers instead of player. Assuming that, I will attempt a response.
The point is that you are all getting the same rewards regardless of how powerful you are.
Finally, you argue that letting people PL is bad. Yet you want to force the AE auto SK system across the board. It is easy to show that AE has only HELPED PLing. You contradict yourself.
I wash my hands of this mess.
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Yes. Because it's SO super to stop in to Atlas Park with your L50 and get PWNED by a couple stray Hellions.
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Well if a hellion is a threat to your level 50 then you got much bigger problems then the level span anyway. And as I keep saying to this argument which no one ever responds to...how is it any differnt then exemping and then a hellion being an even bigger treat. Because the current system is even worse in this reguard how can anyone actually think this is a valid argument?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Yes. Because it's SO super to stop in to Atlas Park with your L50 and get PWNED by a couple stray Hellions.
Negative: Religious underworld! |
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Your wish has been granted. The feature you want was named the Mission Architect, and there are AE buildings in almost every zone. You can use it to run level 50 missions all day long.
| I still think it would be nice if 50's had something to do in every zone. I once recommended that for 50's only, that Radio/Paper missions work in every zone. In essence, a 50 is flagged as a global power, in effect has become a global force and there's a need for her in every zone. If that implemented it would atisfy me, but the idea didn't draw much interest. |
I'm trying to think of the game I played where the enemies scaled to your level in a really noticable way...I want to say 'Oblivion', but I'm not sure.
Anyway, probably part of the reason I don't remember is that for me it ultimately made the game feel very flat. Everywhere you went, the challenge levels were the same. There was no sense of risk exploring the world -- no worry about finding yourself in an overwhelmingly dangerous area or running into a terribly powerful NPC. Sure, as you levelled your equipment got shiner and you got more spells, but the difference was relatively small. There was never a time when you had to retreat, and come back much later as a more powerful hero to overcome the challenge which had been too much before. There was no big stuff and little stuff.
(Nostalgia moment -- I really loved Darklands. There was such a feeling of accomplishment at finally killing that first raubritter and nicking his rusty chain mail. And no longer having to run like heck if a flock of gargoyles showed up.)
I like the feeling in CoH of finding an area dangerous as I level up to it, and then everything conning grey when I go back at a higher level. I like the idea the the bad guys know not to mess with my character. I like being able to swat a pack of them with massive overkill and get thanks from a grateful citizen. If the bad guys in Atlas Park were still giving me attitude and kicking my **** if I didn't pay attention, I wouldn't feel as if the character was getting anywhere.
Superman might stop to save people from getting mugged, but it isn't a challenge for him. He just deals out some justice in an entertainng fashion (like KBing muggers halfway across Atlas, heh) and goes off to fight the world-endangering conspiracies. It wouldn't be very Super if Lex Luthor ruled the world because a handful of muggers had sent Superman to the hospital at the critical moment.
Perhaps it would help people fill teams slightly quicker, but at the price of hugely spoiling a part of the world flavour that I really like. Especially given that with AE there's now already a mechanism in place to allow teaming over wide level differences.
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I have been listening, I just disagree and instead of answering my responses people keep making the same arguments without addressing the reasons I have already stated the argument is invalid. Part of the point of posting something like this is to have others veiws of what's wrong with an idea or how it can be improved. Hoever all i've gotten as a response is that the teaming doesn't need to be easier , which is crap, and that it either makes lower mobs to strong or hiogher mobs to weak...but the current AE, Side kicking, Exemping system already allows for that. How can that be used as an argument when it's already done in the game? The only thing that I am suggesting is make so you don't have to spend time to make some arbitrary team make up to make it work. |
Originally Posted by DechsKaison
I know I'm only perpetuating the problem. I should just ignore it, because he's not going to listen anyway. But I'll bite.
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| No, it doesn't. Batman can look after and teach Robin while he's with him. Batman cannot look after and teach Robin, Cardinal, Blue Jay, Baby Hawk, Little Eagle, Dodo, and Rooster Boy all at the same time. |
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| You, sir, need a remedial course in English. |
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| Finally, you argue that letting people PL is bad. Yet you want to force the AE auto SK system across the board. |
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See, at least this I can buy as an argument. I can understand why you would feel that this would be an issue. |
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I'm trying to think of the game I played where the enemies scaled to your level in a really noticable way...I want to say 'Oblivion', but I'm not sure.
Anyway, probably part of the reason I don't remember is that for me it ultimately made the game feel very flat. Everywhere you went, the challenge levels were the same. There was no sense of risk exploring the world -- no worry about finding yourself in an overwhelmingly dangerous area or running into a terribly powerful NPC. Sure, as you levelled your equipment got shiner and you got more spells, but the difference was relatively small. There was never a time when you had to retreat, and come back much later as a more powerful hero to overcome the challenge which had been too much before. There was no big stuff and little stuff. |
My only answer to that is first, the way MMOs and SPRPGs are played, are completely different. Most people don't go back and redo/explore content in MMOs because of the leveling systems make a very clear path for advancement. Secondly, MMOS are already flat. A lot of what you do is grind, grind, grind in an MMO. It might be a grind you enjoy, it might be a grind in which you enjoy the story, but essentually , and particularly after you've experinced it the first few times through, it's ability to engage a player is going to be flat for ost people. Thirdly, not to sound like a broken record, but the game already allows for people to do what I am suggesting. If you have ever played the AE, or SKed or exempt or played any of the auto level content and enjoyed yourself , what I suggest would be no less flat.
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This ... I don't get why people are so opposed to being able to do something easier that the game already allows. Level 50's can already ex down to leavel 10 and street sweet hellions for rewards. Why are so many people opposed to giving people the option of exing down to level 10 whenever they want to instead of having to go to oro, start an oro TF, and then street sweep? I can't even think of a negative effect that this would have on the game. Anyone who opposes this aspect of suggestion I can safely say is irrelevant since this already exists in the game. Correct me if you think that's wrong.| Thirdly, not to sound like a broken record, but the game already allows for people to do what I am suggesting. If you have ever played the AE, or SKed or exempt or played any of the auto level content and enjoyed yourself , what I suggest would be no less flat. |
The only thing this would expand on is the sk system. The entire game would have AE style sk and would basically do away with mentors in the regular content. I haven't seen any arguments in this thread that gives any reasons as to why the sidekick system in AE is worse than the sidekick sytem in regular content. Why do people opposed to this idea dislike the AE sidekick system? Prove that the AE sk system is a failure, and you'll convince me this is a bad idea.
Its an interesting idea...but i already can for see what sort of things this will bring.
It will cause people to loiter around alot more in atlas park and start street killing everything.
Missions that require people to kill specific things will be the only things people take in fact most misisons will be ignored entirely for street killing....
Why?
Becasue you can have alot more people in the zone area.
There would be nothing stopping a team of people holding all the targets while a bunch of new players proceded to slaughter the foes....and everything being equal...you would always have a supply of higher level with more powers to do it...becasue they would be board....as leveling wouldnt hold much incentive.
Powerleveling would become absolutley insane....worse then the architect entertainment (which should have actualy done exemplaring only and not auto side kicking and shouldnt give experience points only influence and prestige and tickets)
What would be one of the saddest things as part of this change...if it happened....is the danager zones would become obsolete.....there would be no danger there....everything would always be the same....players would say why would they want to go there when they could just stay somewhere else that has a leveling guy a hospital and everything else.
In addition the entire use of leveling would practicaly begone....there would be no real incentive to be level 50 as oppsed to being level 15....yes they would get more powers....but the actual incentive is to feel like you can accomplish something...and you cant feel that way if you never get more powerful then anything else.
And a really bad side effect...would be the constant attacks no matter where you would go you would get attacked....everything would attack you.....you would have no reprieve...
sure you could hard code into the data that a lower level creature wouldnt attack you...but then people as they are....
Whould lead them to you to attack you.
Thats just how it would happen.....they already teleported things into buildings....they already kept leading monsters into the area of portal corp....heck they grief the hammidon stuff.....
All your suggestion would do is make things unfun very quickly and give griefers a bigger edge and at the same time make power leveling extremely easy.
I am not saying that you have all bad ideas...i am simply pointing out the flaws and things this would bring...there would be no way to circumvent those things i mention...no hard coding no nothing....
The entire flag system as has been proven so many times in other games that didnt have a level system.....is that its easy to break...easy to exploit....and makes people quit alot faster.
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The AE system is a failure...in that it makes it so people can simply grind their way to the highest level of play never having expereicned the actual game play. Then those same high level players complain on these boards the game is either too easy or doesnt have enough content or complain they shouldnt have to wait for a vetren reward...or whatever else which they do on regualr basis.|
Originally Posted by Folonius
This ... I don't get why people are so opposed to being able to do something easier that the game already allows. Level 50's can already ex down to leavel 10 and street sweet hellions for rewards. Why are so many people opposed to giving people the option of exing down to level 10 whenever they want to instead of having to go to oro, start an oro TF, and then street sweep? I can't even think of a negative effect that this would have on the game. Anyone who opposes this aspect of suggestion I can safely say is irrelevant since this already exists in the game. Correct me if you think that's wrong.
The only thing this would expand on is the sk system. The entire game would have AE style sk and would basically do away with mentors in the regular content. I haven't seen any arguments in this thread that gives any reasons as to why the sidekick system in AE is worse than the sidekick sytem in regular content. Why do people opposed to this idea dislike the AE sidekick system? Prove that the AE sk system is a failure, and you'll convince me this is a bad idea. |
The actual autoside kick function just enables this sort of game play mentality.....and makes it realy easy to level lower levels faster.....its simple realy...players can make any type of encounter....and either through ingame play knowledge or trial and error that make the easiest encounters to easily level from....this then creates players who when they actualy play the game...become the type of players everyone hates......
Becasue while everyone was spoon feeding them....these people learned not how to be a team player but how to spunge exp....and once they dont have any exp incentive they actualy have no more incentive to play.
Yep they say they reached level 50 and thats it....
Sure they might try a task force or two.....but when they play they are the ones that whine about not having any powers they make terrible mistakes and most of the time log out or quit....with a quick cable diconnection or the illfated they have to go.....
ANywise that is the failure of the Architect Entertainment....they(the developers of this game) really messed up....they should have changed the system so it would auto-exemplar only...ie. a level 50 would be exmplared to the lowest level player in the group....making high level content not accessible to anyone of extreme low levels....also the experience points should have been eliminated all together....they should have kept just influence and prestige and tickets...but go figure.....this is what happens when they plan things on paper only
In fact if you want to see a real good example of the Architect Entertainment failure....go to ebay or gagora or whatever other site...and look at just how many characters and accounts are being sold......oh excuse me....i must phrase it the way the sellers say it....just look at the(amount of time they sell)
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a game that had enemies scaled to you....thats easy....an old favorite starwars galaxies...they didnt orignally have a level system.....what they did is put resistances and things on harder encounters...the net effect was the ill fasted jedi padawan being 1000 time s stronger then your decked out character...or a cook armed with a lame beginner pistol beating a bounty hunter witht he best of everything in a duel.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I'm trying to think of the game I played where the enemies scaled to your level in a really noticable way...I want to say 'Oblivion', but I'm not sure.
Anyway, probably part of the reason I don't remember is that for me it ultimately made the game feel very flat. Everywhere you went, the challenge levels were the same. There was no sense of risk exploring the world -- no worry about finding yourself in an overwhelmingly dangerous area or running into a terribly powerful NPC. Sure, as you levelled your equipment got shiner and you got more spells, but the difference was relatively small. There was never a time when you had to retreat, and come back much later as a more powerful hero to overcome the challenge which had been too much before. There was no big stuff and little stuff. (Nostalgia moment -- I really loved Darklands. There was such a feeling of accomplishment at finally killing that first raubritter and nicking his rusty chain mail. And no longer having to run like heck if a flock of gargoyles showed up.) I like the feeling in CoH of finding an area dangerous as I level up to it, and then everything conning grey when I go back at a higher level. I like the idea the the bad guys know not to mess with my character. I like being able to swat a pack of them with massive overkill and get thanks from a grateful citizen. If the bad guys in Atlas Park were still giving me attitude and kicking my **** if I didn't pay attention, I wouldn't feel as if the character was getting anywhere. Superman might stop to save people from getting mugged, but it isn't a challenge for him. He just deals out some justice in an entertainng fashion (like KBing muggers halfway across Atlas, heh) and goes off to fight the world-endangering conspiracies. It wouldn't be very Super if Lex Luthor ruled the world because a handful of muggers had sent Superman to the hospital at the critical moment. Perhaps it would help people fill teams slightly quicker, but at the price of hugely spoiling a part of the world flavour that I really like. Especially given that with AE there's now already a mechanism in place to allow teaming over wide level differences. |
Yep a great example to this day....and the fixes they attempted.....yeeeeppppp....the rest is history i think.
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For me, it's wrong.|
Originally Posted by Folonius
Anyone who opposes this aspect of suggestion I can safely say is irrelevant since this already exists in the game. Correct me if you think that's wrong.
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AE is extra pretend in a pretend world. It's a virtual reality game, and the 'real world' rules don't have to apply there. I think it's a great part of AE that your character can scale up or down to different stories in there. It fits perfectly into the AE concept.
Sking is cool, because of the whole comic book tradiation of side-kicks, where the small fry do get to run around with the big heroes and survive.
Exemping is fun, too, and I always think of it as helping young heroes along -- they wouldn't learn anything if the more powerful hero just smacked down all the opposition. So I limit myself and just lend a hand on their story, and if needed I can unexemp to heal or buff or do a bit of teleporting.
All the various exemping and SK options in the game are all fun to play with, but I don't want a whole world like that. It would make the game less fun for me. At the moment, as a level 50, I can walk around most of Paragon City or the Rogue Islands, and be sufficiently heroic or villainous that most people know not to mess with me. It makes me feel that my character has grown, that I've achieved something with him or her. I would really, really miss that with scaleable enemies over the entire game.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Firstly, how I read the suggestion wasn't just giving players an option to self-exemplar down (that's been much-requested over the years) but outright REMOVING levels. I like my levels, and I'm not going to sit idly by and not my head while people suggest they be taken away from me after five years. No, thank you!|
Originally Posted by Folonius
This ... I don't get why people are so opposed to being able to do something easier that the game already allows. Level 50's can already ex down to leavel 10 and street sweet hellions for rewards. Why are so many people opposed to giving people the option of exing down to level 10 whenever they want to instead of having to go to oro, start an oro TF, and then street sweep? I can't even think of a negative effect that this would have on the game. Anyone who opposes this aspect of suggestion I can safely say is irrelevant since this already exists in the game. Correct me if you think that's wrong.
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As well, while sidekicks and exemplars are a good system and I'd like to see it extended a little bit more, I am NOT a fan of self-sidekicking. Self-exemplar I suppose I can see - you can always hold back and not hit as hard. But self-sidekicking is absolutely out of the question as far as I'm concerned. I have to agree with other people - self-sidekicking up 50 levels IS a mistake. It allows people to take on "end game" enemies from level one and do nothing but that for 50 levels. And then they come here to complain it's a boring grind. Ya think?
Sidekicking up should always, ALWAYS require a mentor and only ever allow this mentor to take missions from this level. Sure, allow low-level players to play with their high-level friends. Do NOT allow them to pose as high-levels, themselves. It's an exception to forward playability, not a feature to bypass the levelling structure. I'd like to see that status quo remain unchanged.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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What you quoted has absolutly nothing to do with AE style sk. It has to do with using Oro to exing down to a certain level and street sweeping. for example, exing down to level 25ish and going to DA to farm BP's. You will still be able to walk around a whole world as level 50, but then you will be able to exemp yourself at a whim instead of using oro to ex yourself and street sweep.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
For me, it's wrong.
AE is extra pretend in a pretend world. It's a virtual reality game, and the 'real world' rules don't have to apply there. I think it's a great part of AE that your character can scale up or down to different stories in there. It fits perfectly into the AE concept. Sking is cool, because of the whole comic book tradiation of side-kicks, where the small fry do get to run around with the big heroes and survive. Exemping is fun, too, and I always think of it as helping young heroes along -- they wouldn't learn anything if the more powerful hero just smacked down all the opposition. So I limit myself and just lend a hand on their story, and if needed I can unexemp to heal or buff or do a bit of teleporting. All the various exemping and SK options in the game are all fun to play with, but I don't want a whole world like that. It would make the game less fun for me. At the moment, as a level 50, I can walk around most of Paragon City or the Rogue Islands, and be sufficiently heroic or villainous that most people know not to mess with me. It makes me feel that my character has grown, that I've achieved something with him or her. I would really, really miss that with scaleable enemies over the entire game. |
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I am against this as well. A few pages back, I asked the Op for clarification on this, and said the rikti invasions and zombie invasions where the targets don't have levels isn't what he was suggesting for. I'll admit, he could have been clearer in the suggestion though.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Firstly, how I read the suggestion wasn't just giving players an option to self-exemplar down (that's been much-requested over the years) but outright REMOVING levels. I like my levels, and I'm not going to sit idly by and not my head while people suggest they be taken away from me after five years. No, thank you!
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| As well, while sidekicks and exemplars are a good system and I'd like to see it extended a little bit more, I am NOT a fan of self-sidekicking. |
The new SK system in AE allows total availability to anyone of any level to play together which is a huge plus for me. I don't play for hours at a time, usually just 1 or 2 hours, and I usually have to continually step away from the game, so I often get less than 2 hours of game time. Time spent looking for team mates of appropriate level is time wasted. As long as the people who join are slotted with at least SO's, they can be an effective team mate no matter what we are fighting. The down side to this system is that you can get a team makeup that will fail because to many people are to low in levels, or aren't slotted with SO's because they were PL'd. IMO, the solution to this is make SO's free, or make a new enhancement that only works in AE.
My guess is that the reason that auto leveling to any level in AE was allowed because it's not in the real world (fake real world? That would make AE the fake of the fake of the real world). If that is the case, then why not also allow for enhancements that are "fake". By fake, I mean only work in AE, the fake fake world, and won't work in the fake world, regular content.
I can see why they may not allow auto leveling in regular content due to aesthetics of AE, but IMO, the new SK system is more verstile than the old SK system. I don't run regular content unless I'm grinding for accolades or extremely bored.
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| Self-exemplar I suppose I can see - you can always hold back and not hit as hard. But self-sidekicking is absolutely out of the question as far as I'm concerned. I have to agree with other people - self-sidekicking up 50 levels IS a mistake. It allows people to take on "end game" enemies from level one and do nothing but that for 50 levels. And then they come here to complain it's a boring grind. Ya think? |
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| Sidekicking up should always, ALWAYS require a mentor and only ever allow this mentor to take missions from this level. Sure, allow low-level players to play with their high-level friends. Do NOT allow them to pose as high-levels, themselves. It's an exception to forward playability, not a feature to bypass the levelling structure. I'd like to see that status quo remain unchanged. |
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Oh, I'm sorry! I completely misread that. Many apologies.
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Originally Posted by Folonius
What you quoted has absolutly nothing to do with AE style sk. It has to do with using Oro to exing down to a certain level and street sweeping. for example, exing down to level 25ish and going to DA to farm BP's. You will still be able to walk around a whole world as level 50, but then you will be able to exemp yourself at a whim instead of using oro to ex yourself and street sweep.
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Not every player in the game has been playing it for several years. Redesigning the game so it fits those who have been playing it for several years over those who are just starting out is bad practice.|
Originally Posted by Folonius
After several years of playing Co*, regular content is a boring grind. AE is the greatest thing this game has had.
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[/quote]Sidekicks to mentors already pose as high levels. Removing the need for mentors allows for more verstility and dynamics when creating a team that auto SK's.[/QUOTE]
Sidekicks in contemporary teams can pose as high-levels, yes, but they need a LEGITIMATE high-level to serve as the anchor and engage on missions his level. I have nothing against that. In fact, I have nothing against allowing a single player to have multiple sidekicks. I would like to see at least 3-4 sidekicks per mentor, and I wouldn't be terribly upset at 7 sidekicks per mentor. What matters is that there IS a mentor.
I do NOT want to open the entire game to anyone of any level engaging in any level content of his own initiative. In fact, I believe allowing this in the Architect was a mistake driven by good intentions - to give authors some more exposure. I will always demand that there be at least one player that is of the level the mission is and who serves as a mentor. One person is enough for me, but I will not and cannot agree with allowing people without a mentor to take on higher-level content.
Besides, this goes against your own argument, as well - finding teams more easily and having an easier time getting along. You don't need complete and total freedom to do this, you just need more sidekicks per mentor. Even in the very extreme case of one mentor to seven sidekicks, that's still something I can get behind - let the mentor herd cats and patch up the works if he's committed to it. But I cannot agree with the notion of eight mentor-less sidekicks. I simply cannot.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I see your point, but you have to realize what you suggest, and what the Op implies are very similar. The only difference is you can only sk up to the highest level toon on the team, or one level below them.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Not every player in the game has been playing it for several years. Redesigning the game so it fits those who have been playing it for several years over those who are just starting out is bad practice.
Sidekicks in contemporary teams can pose as high-levels, yes, but they need a LEGITIMATE high-level to serve as the anchor and engage on missions his level. I have nothing against that. In fact, I have nothing against allowing a single player to have multiple sidekicks. I would like to see at least 3-4 sidekicks per mentor, and I wouldn't be terribly upset at 7 sidekicks per mentor. What matters is that there IS a mentor. I do NOT want to open the entire game to anyone of any level engaging in any level content of his own initiative. In fact, I believe allowing this in the Architect was a mistake driven by good intentions - to give authors some more exposure. I will always demand that there be at least one player that is of the level the mission is and who serves as a mentor. One person is enough for me, but I will not and cannot agree with allowing people without a mentor to take on higher-level content. Besides, this goes against your own argument, as well - finding teams more easily and having an easier time getting along. You don't need complete and total freedom to do this, you just need more sidekicks per mentor. Even in the very extreme case of one mentor to seven sidekicks, that's still something I can get behind - let the mentor herd cats and patch up the works if he's committed to it. But I cannot agree with the notion of eight mentor-less sidekicks. I simply cannot. |
That seems like a legitimate compromise.
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As long as there is a character to SK to, I am fine with it. This both preserves the requirement of a legitimately high-level character and preserves the meaning of levels. Heck, a multi-SK system is something I've always wanted to see. The bane of my teaming experience has always been the times when me and two of my friends are on, and each of us wants to play a different level character, say a 10, a 20 and a 30. There's no way in HELL that's going to work because one person always gets left out. Now if the 30 could SK both the 10 and the 20, the team would work. Instant success.|
Originally Posted by Folonius
I see your point, but you have to realize what you suggest, and what the Op implies are very similar. The only difference is you can only sk up to the highest level toon on the team, or one level below them.
That seems like a legitimate compromise. |
Again, this and the original suggestion may be similar in final result, but I do not agree with how the original suggestion achieves it. "No more levels" is not something I can stand behind.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Quote:
Yes I don't want to see a no more levels system this late in this game's life.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As long as there is a character to SK to, I am fine with it. This both preserves the requirement of a legitimately high-level character and preserves the meaning of levels. Heck, a multi-SK system is something I've always wanted to see. The bane of my teaming experience has always been the times when me and two of my friends are on, and each of us wants to play a different level character, say a 10, a 20 and a 30. There's no way in HELL that's going to work because one person always gets left out. Now if the 30 could SK both the 10 and the 20, the team would work. Instant success.
Again, this and the original suggestion may be similar in final result, but I do not agree with how the original suggestion achieves it. "No more levels" is not something I can stand behind. |
I can see extra slot levels for highbees but mobs would have to be added fro those "extra levels".
If this were a brand new mmo, then a leveless system would work. As it is now, NO.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I guess we'll get a chance to see how right I am. All the balance issues, that everyone made up in their heads, the devs seemed to find away around. One thing I notice is how well recieved it has been.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...86#post2112186
From this list, we will be getting whats in the green text. #8 we know we will be getting 2 new Power Sets, so that's sorta true, just not the Spy Archetype.
What I would hope to see from thsi list is #9 I would love to get a few extra slots. This would allow us to slot a few extra end reducers in some of our powers that need it, extra run speed in sprint..etc..etc.