So...they gonna work on /Traps?
By
Ahmon,
Posted on: 2009-07-23 20:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Traps is fine the way it is, mostly.
The only improvement it should get is in PGT, which should be reverted the way it was before it was made into a proc-happy mini nuke
Time Bomb should also be replaced by something useful like Gun Drone, though 
Seekers drones should be available sooner IMVHO.
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Seekers drones should be available sooner IMVHO.
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Granted!
Defenders will get Seeker Drones at level 18!
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Change FFG to operate the same way. A click power that summons a targeting drone looking thing that hovers around you and provides a dispersion bubble buff. Only this would have something like a 60 duration and a 120 recharge, requiring the player to invest in recharge to perma it. The current one is slow, gets hung up corners, has weird pathfinding, and can get stuck on NPCs, objects, MM henchmen, and even players. It doesn't always end up where you want it! The only trick I've seen with FFG that this change would screw up is when people use their teleport stealth IO to TP their FFG to give themselves a stealth bonus. It's not very common, and in fact, I've only ever seen or heard of ONE player doing it.
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Very unsigned.
Getting stuck and so on doesn't happen frequently enough that I've seen (hardly at all, really) that I want it screwed up like this. FFG is one of the gems of Traps and making it so we'd have to struggle towards making it perma would a major nerfage, imho.
The fact the FFG's path finding can be somewhat wonky is balanced out by it's 15 second recharge.
Oh the thing got stuck re-summon.
FFG does not need any changes.
In fact because it's targetable it provides two layers of protection for a /Traps
The first being the +defense the second being drawn agro.
TB needs to be a mobile pet that buffs regen. Immobile it has almost no use outside long fights. In most teams/TFs it has little use in my experience.
Trip Mine needs to slot for interrupt time.
Time Bomb needs to become Gun Drone.
Web Grenade needs..something. Unlike most immobs, it does no damage. Increased range, duration, or a % chance for +1 magnitude would be nice to offset the lack of damage.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
Also, all of the mobile pets should have no clipping at all. Yes, I can resummon FFG. No, I dont like doing it on my MM every 30-60 seconds on some maps (arachnos labs, exc). Its a QoL issue.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
last time they looked at traps, the poison trap got nerfed. While it's not exactly a huge problem, I can stand it not being looked at again. 
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Traps is fine the way it is, mostly.
The only improvement it should get is in PGT, which should be reverted the way it was before it was made into a proc-happy mini nuke
Time Bomb should also be replaced by something useful like Gun Drone, though
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/signed
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Web Grenade needs..something. Unlike most immobs, it does no damage. Increased range, duration, or a % chance for +1 magnitude would be nice to offset the lack of damage.
[/ QUOTE ] It needs to slow recharge(don't know if it does), since you can't attack very well if you are snared in a web.
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It needs to slow recharge(don't know if it does), since you can't attack very well if you are snared in a web.
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Protip: It does.
Edited for Brawlnstein's pleasure.
Whatever happened to "protip:" I thought that was funnier!
Recall-Friend-ing your FFG with a Stealth IO is a LONG way to go for stealth, I'm impressed.
Also, why do you start with a subject about /traps and then one line about /traps then jump into a bunch of AR discussion. 
I haven't played Traps enough to know what it needs, but I sincerely hope that Defenders will be getting their own set of the Traps pets. Since all but one power (Web Grenade) uses a pet or pseudo-pet, the set would be almost exactly the same for Defenders as it is for Corruptors.
(QR)
I can't speak to Traps, but I can say I never use Time Bomb on my /Dev blaster, so I sure as heck wouldn 't use it on a Defender >_>
Gun Drone would make a kick-[censored] tier 9 for Defenders though. Also, seconding Triage Beacon getting the Gun Drone/FFG Mobility treatment. As it is I've never seen anyone even use it, short of an EB fight.
If they replace Time Bomb with something even remotly useful... I sure as heck am gonna sign a petition to get it changed on Corruptors, too...
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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FFG does not need any changes.
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I'd be all for changing FFG to a toggle, even being fully aware that would mean the defense would suppress while mezzed and endurance usage over time would probably be greater. My experience playing a /Traps Corruptor was that the FFG is just too slow and stupid to work for me. I have an active playstyle with frequent repositioning and I'd end up out of the bubble as often as in it.
As an alternate solution, I'd like the defense granted by the big bubble to be somewhat sticky. While inside the big bubble each character has a smaller bubble around them. Let that bubble persist for a short while after exiting the big bubble. That way if a person needs to reposition, or if the FFG gets stuck or just does something stupid, the defense will persist long enough to correct the situation.
It's fine for a MM, or a hover-blasting Corruptor I'm sure, but it doesn't work for me as it is now. Between that, the current weakened PGT, and all the other things that have been mentioned /Traps pretty much doesn't exist for me right now.
I do not like the idea of making FFG a toggle given /traps for corruptors can be end heavy. MM's that use traps do not have to deal with the endurance problems that corruptors do.
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I do not like the idea of making FFG a toggle given /traps for corruptors can be end heavy.
[/ QUOTE ]protip: Toggles generally cost less endurance/time than clicks
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I do not like the idea of making FFG a toggle given /traps for corruptors can be end heavy.
[/ QUOTE ]protip: Toggles generally cost less endurance/time than clicks
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Are you sure? Can anyone compare Sonic dispersion vs /Traps FFG as an example?
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The only improvement it should get is in PGT, which should be reverted the way it was before it was made into a proc-happy mini nuke
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Agreed. Trip mine needs to be fixed too. It gets tiring watching critters run right over them and they don't go off.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
I want my FFG as an independant entity. If I wanted a dispersion bubble toggle I can do that now.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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FFG does not need any changes.
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I'd be all for changing FFG to a toggle, even being fully aware that would mean the defense would suppress while mezzed and endurance usage over time would probably be greater.
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No. Part of the benefit of the power is that it doesn't suppress. I can also resummon it whenever I please, wherever I please. I can use it to alpha. I also like on-demand endurance usage instead of a steady drain, where I lose end even when I'm outside of combat. If it was changed, I'd be very unhappy. There's no benefit I can think of for changing it to a toggle, except being lazier about resummoning it. The thing keeps up with the player just fine, and if it's actually an issue, the recharge is 15 seconds.
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I do not like the idea of making FFG a toggle given /traps for corruptors can be end heavy.
[/ QUOTE ]protip: Toggles generally cost less endurance/time than clicks
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FFG is 13 end for 240 seconds of protection. Dispersion Bubble is 0.52 end/sec. Even if you cut that in half, Dispersion is almost 5x the endurance.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Change FFG to operate the same way. A click power that summons a targeting drone looking thing that hovers around you and provides a dispersion bubble buff. Only this would have something like a 60 duration and a 120 recharge, requiring the player to invest in recharge to perma it.
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No. Just no.
If other squishies can have toggles that provide mezz protection without detoggling upon being put to sleep anymore (Force Field, Sonic Resonance) then nerfing Force Field Generator is just a dick move. They don't have the danger either that the FFG can be destroyed, which does happen in fights where powerful AoEs are being used by enemies, especially in AV fights when the Trapper has to get in close to redeploy Poison Trap and Trip Mines.
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Change FFG to operate the same way. A click power that summons a targeting drone looking thing that hovers around you and provides a dispersion bubble buff. Only this would have something like a 60 duration and a 120 recharge, requiring the player to invest in recharge to perma it.
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No. Just no.
If other squishies can have toggles that provide mezz protection without detoggling upon being put to sleep anymore (Force Field, Sonic Resonance) then nerfing Force Field Generator is just a dick move. They don't have the danger either that the FFG can be destroyed, which does happen in fights where powerful AoEs are being used by enemies, especially in AV fights when the Trapper has to get in close to redeploy Poison Trap and Trip Mines.
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I have to agree with lazarus - I thought the point of this thread was to ask for BUFFS to traps, not nerfs. FFG is the best power in the set (possibly tied with acid mortar - hard to say) and is perfect just as is.
Personally while I would like to see poison trap made a bit more effective for a non-MM (longer initial hold maybe, now that it doesn't proc 1 hold cloud per target) I would be quite happy with just a change to the last power - replace time bomb with something usefull and that would round out the set nicely. I liked a previous suggestion to replace it with gun drone - it would actually be very useful for a defender/corruptor.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Since Traps is getting sent over to defenders, does that mean we can get an honest look at traps? Heck, or AR for that matter? Some small tweaks are really all the powersets need, I feel, to be on-par with other sets.
I think both sets are functionally sound for the most part, but just have playability issues (with me and a bunch of other players at least)
More upfront damage from Flamethrower, change M30 to a lower mag KB so it won't scatter, and a faster animation on on Ignite. After that AR would probably be my favorite ranged offense set. Flamethrower would be the one I'd beg for, though. That power got even SLOWER after the projectile changes that were supposed to make it faster, since the further away you are, the longer it takes the projectile to reach the target. Ignite can be the slow roaster power. Flamethrower needs it's damage to be dealt significantly faster. Castle recently made a very similar change to Midnight Grasp.
Change Triage Beacon to be a click power with the same duration and recharge it has now, except give it the graphics of one of those little Vet reward bonus defense drones or Targeting Drone and make the emanation of the regen buff come from the caster. Basically it would operate like Soothing Aura from /Pain except it's a click power and has a bigger radius. I realize this may annoy some MM players that use it to plant on the ground near their bots and then taunt aggro from the target to somewhere else with BG mode, but I think it was be a huge improvement to the set for the majority of users. TB on anything but a MM, and only on specific MM builds, is right up there with Kinetics Repel on the list of powers that are so situational you might as well just pretend they don't exist.
Change FFG to operate the same way. A click power that summons a targeting drone looking thing that hovers around you and provides a dispersion bubble buff. Only this would have something like a 60 duration and a 120 recharge, requiring the player to invest in recharge to perma it. The current one is slow, gets hung up corners, has weird pathfinding, and can get stuck on NPCs, objects, MM henchmen, and even players. It doesn't always end up where you want it! The only trick I've seen with FFG that this change would screw up is when people use their teleport stealth IO to TP their FFG to give themselves a stealth bonus. It's not very common, and in fact, I've only ever seen or heard of ONE player doing it.
Poison Trap is actually still a good power for the debuff it provides but it's hold potential is lacking. Overall, advocates of Traps would like to see this power get some love, but I'm not really sure what would do that wouldn't break the cottage rule, or overpower it.
Time Bomb would be best suited to getting an Omega Maneuver type change. The ability to teleport in a stealth bomb at range that can only be seen by perceptive foes and still explodes even if they manage to damage it enough.
It'd be nice if Trip Mine could be slotted for interrupt reduction...
Anyway those are my ideas. I don't think they really cause for any sweeping balance changes, break the cottage rule, or screw over people who are used to playing the sets a certain way. My only intent is to find ways to improve the playability of both AR and Traps.