Starsman: Take the same Defender, plop it in a group of 6 or more and then tell me how you're doing with endurance. Accuracy (even with the buff) starts to become huge at early levels when dealing with +L2 mobs.
Even at even levels against LTs you can run into a wiffle fest that leaves your end bar empty ... and this is on ONE mob much less a spawn.
Quote:
Those are not heroic spawns.|
Originally Posted by Kruunch
Starsman: Take the same Defender, plop it in a group of 6 or more and then tell me how you're doing with endurance. Accuracy (even with the buff) starts to become huge at early levels when dealing with +L2 mobs.
|
Heroic spawns are either 3 minnions or 1 minnion and a lt.
There is a chance indoors for the spawn being +1.
Quote:
While teamed, defenders get a fairly substantial endurance discount when their teammates are getting hit. I have never taken a defender to 50 - my highest level is currently 37, and that includes 5 levels from yesterday - but while I never try to solo with the character, while teamed that one has no significant issues. I don't know the math for the defender inherent, but it seems fairly effective. Mine only runs out of end when he tries to blast solo. |
Originally Posted by Starsman_NA
All this is not to note that endurance is fine, I noted how I think certain ATs (specially defenders and tankers) have more end issues than others but the entire "can't finish a single spawn without running dry" sounds extremely overstated.
|
My controllers have huge issues, though, both with endurance and with recharge. I have not found one I really enjoy.
Now, it might be that a level 14 tanker would recover enough endurance after moving to the next spawn to take down another. Skulls are probably not the best mobs to illustrate this; and even then, taking down an even level lieutenant and minion leaves you with 1/3 of your endurance left. Soloing, it also ignores the preferred movement speed of teams, which typically like to move from spawn to spawn much faster. Of course, an out of endurance tanker might have Taunt to spam, which requires no endurance.
For Tsoos with Sorcerers, or CoTs with spectres, "can't finish a single spawn without running dry" is hardly an overstatement for those spawns that include them. We learn to simply avoid them because of this. I didn't use those as an illustration, because to do that I'd have to take one of those missions.
The low level endurance mechanic is annoying but workable versus Skulls; it breaks down in dealing with mobs with heals and accuracy debuffs. While those mobs remain and under 20 characters face them, the endurance mechanic still needs to be revisited to allow players who get them to actually defeat them without tedium.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
I posted my idea for improving early Enhancements in the Suggestions forum. Naturally, the responses there are the opposite as here- that the early levels aren't that bad.
Quote:
Teaming and soloing are two different beasts and should be looked at separately. I rarely do anything other than defending in teams with my defender (sonic/sonic) this includes buffing and debuffing, including two toggles that are all the time up. Since I don't care about attacking myself in teams, team endurance issues are not a concern. Tankers, on the other hand, should be attacking on teams. But again, that's a different issue from the one i was illustrating above: soloing a spawn.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
While teamed, defenders get a fairly substantial endurance discount when their teammates are getting hit. I have never taken a defender to 50 - my highest level is currently 37, and that includes 5 levels from yesterday - but while I never try to solo with the character, while teamed that one has no significant issues. I don't know the math for the defender inherent, but it seems fairly effective. Mine only runs out of end when he tries to blast solo.
|
Quote:
| My controllers have huge issues, though, both with endurance and with recharge. I have not found one I really enjoy. |
Quote:
| For Tsoos with Sorcerers, or CoTs with specters, "can't finish a single spawn without running dry" is hardly an overstatement for those spawns that include them. We learn to simply avoid them because of this. I didn't use those as an illustration, because to do that I'd have to take one of those missions. |
That being told: I always found CoT easier at the high end when the ghosts stop spawning, ironic how the hardest units are low level ones. Critter ToHit Debuffs in this game are just too draconian and deserve one hell of a revision.
Quote:
| The low level endurance mechanic is annoying but workable versus Skulls; it breaks down in dealing with mobs with heals and accuracy debuffs. While those mobs remain and under 20 characters face them, the endurance mechanic still needs to be revisited to allow players who get them to actually defeat them without tedium. |
All that aside: even if those characters were able to defeat 2 spawns before resting, Rest The Power is not up that often. It's a side topic but I have vouched for some sort of Rest replacement in the past, something that gave characters out of combat regeneration so that you regenerate simply by standing still and not fighting or being attacked. This would not speed the game drastically, would still need specific ATs to be looked at, but would make low level play much more friendly.
Quote:
The shame of it is that for the veteran players L1-20 is a non-issue because we all virtually blaze past it.|
Originally Posted by Vox_Populi
I posted my idea for improving early Enhancements in the Suggestions forum. Naturally, the responses there are the opposite as here- that the early levels aren't that bad.
|
For new players (who I'd be willing to bet aren't the ones saying that endurance isn't a problem at those levels) they just suffer and possibly get the wrong impression of the game.
So easily fixed too ... shrug.
[QR]
I'm already on record advocating DPE normalization between archetypes (which I think is an intrinsicly more fair approach overall), but I've often wondered if the "wait for endurance" mechanic shouldn't have been softened by making Brawl cost little or zero endurance. Brawl has a relatively low DPA; at low levels its an interesting power but at higher levels (prior to the advent of IOs) it was largely an orphaned power (although some Tankers and Brutes still used/use it for aggro/fury reasons).
Perhaps the best way to resolve the psychological issue of waiting within the balance limits of the game is to simply remove the endurance costs from Brawl and the Origin ranged power, and perhaps boost the origin power's damage slightly. That would ensure low level players would always have an attack available (within the limits of the recharge of the two powers, which is relatively short), even if they ran out of endurance (and at least one of them ranged). If the DPA of the two attacks is sufficiently low relative to primary/secondary/pool attacks, they then eventually become mostly irrelevant at higher levels when they aren't capable of significantly contributing to the average DPA of normal attack chains.
Interlacing them with primary/secondary attacks would generate continuous attack streams that weren't exclusively focused on Brawl/Origin, but burned much less endurance, so this doesn't preclude using the "real" attack powers altogether. The main objection, that brawl and the origin power are either boring or inconsistent with the rest of the attacks, is an issue that I16 could theoretically address.
(More radically, I used to think that perhaps the best way to resolve this was to radically reduce the endurance costs and decrease the DPA of most archetype's first two attacks, with appropriate changes in powersets to counterbalance. However, that would be problematic today as there are other balance issue intertwined with tier 1/2 attacks such as defiance.)
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I always chalk these complaints up to one of two things.....Poor (or complete lack of) endurance management or lack of patience.
I have run some really end heavies builds in the past and worked through it. Let go of the idea of cookie cutter building (slot and forget) and actually think, adapt and overcome your way through builds. This is after all a game of challenges.....why effective or efficient slotting is not considered as one of those challenges by so many often confuses me.
Regards.
Quote:
The only potential problem I can see with that is proc slotting Brawl, but I haven't done any hard comparisons to see if that holds true. Other than that, I really like it. It increases interactivity pretty much exclusively at low levels without any more potentially game breaking changes. It'd be a slight bump to damage, too.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm already on record advocating DPE normalization between archetypes (which I think is an intrinsicly more fair approach overall), but I've often wondered if the "wait for endurance" mechanic shouldn't have been softened by making Brawl cost little or zero endurance. Brawl has a relatively low DPA; at low levels its an interesting power but at higher levels (prior to the advent of IOs) it was largely an orphaned power (although some Tankers and Brutes still used/use it for aggro/fury reasons).
Perhaps the best way to resolve the psychological issue of waiting within the balance limits of the game is to simply remove the endurance costs from Brawl and the Origin ranged power, and perhaps boost the origin power's damage slightly. That would ensure low level players would always have an attack available (within the limits of the recharge of the two powers, which is relatively short), even if they ran out of endurance (and at least one of them ranged). If the DPA of the two attacks is sufficiently low relative to primary/secondary/pool attacks, they then eventually become mostly irrelevant at higher levels when they aren't capable of significantly contributing to the average DPA of normal attack chains. Interlacing them with primary/secondary attacks would generate continuous attack streams that weren't exclusively focused on Brawl/Origin, but burned much less endurance, so this doesn't preclude using the "real" attack powers altogether. The main objection, that brawl and the origin power are either boring or inconsistent with the rest of the attacks, is an issue that I16 could theoretically address. |
I approve.
Quote:
This would work for Tankers (and Scrappers) but wouldn't necessarily mesh well with ranged based sets (most others).
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
[QR]
I'm already on record advocating DPE normalization between archetypes (which I think is an intrinsicly more fair approach overall), but I've often wondered if the "wait for endurance" mechanic shouldn't have been softened by making Brawl cost little or zero endurance. Brawl has a relatively low DPA; at low levels its an interesting power but at higher levels (prior to the advent of IOs) it was largely an orphaned power (although some Tankers and Brutes still used/use it for aggro/fury reasons). Perhaps the best way to resolve the psychological issue of waiting within the balance limits of the game is to simply remove the endurance costs from Brawl and the Origin ranged power, and perhaps boost the origin power's damage slightly. That would ensure low level players would always have an attack available (within the limits of the recharge of the two powers, which is relatively short), even if they ran out of endurance (and at least one of them ranged). If the DPA of the two attacks is sufficiently low relative to primary/secondary/pool attacks, they then eventually become mostly irrelevant at higher levels when they aren't capable of significantly contributing to the average DPA of normal attack chains. Interlacing them with primary/secondary attacks would generate continuous attack streams that weren't exclusively focused on Brawl/Origin, but burned much less endurance, so this doesn't preclude using the "real" attack powers altogether. The main objection, that brawl and the origin power are either boring or inconsistent with the rest of the attacks, is an issue that I16 could theoretically address. (More radically, I used to think that perhaps the best way to resolve this was to radically reduce the endurance costs and decrease the DPA of most archetype's first two attacks, with appropriate changes in powersets to counterbalance. However, that would be problematic today as there are other balance issue intertwined with tier 1/2 attacks such as defiance.) |
Quote:
Funny you mention this, I been meaning to PM Castle about Brawl. If you have not noticed, for a power that is meant to be used by lowbies, the thing costs more endurance than most attacks, it costs 25% extra endurance AND it recharges at 2 seconds while it does the damage of a 1 second recharge attack. My proposal was not going to be as drastic as yours (removal of endurance alltogether) just to get it on spot and lower it's recharge OR increase the damage to it's rightfull place, if needed making the new found damage unennhanceable. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
[QR]
I'm already on record advocating DPE normalization between archetypes (which I think is an intrinsicly more fair approach overall), but I've often wondered if the "wait for endurance" mechanic shouldn't have been softened by making Brawl cost little or zero endurance. Brawl has a relatively low DPA; at low levels its an interesting power but at higher levels (prior to the advent of IOs) it was largely an orphaned power (although some Tankers and Brutes still used/use it for aggro/fury reasons). |
Being a devil's advocate: The problem I see with buffing brawl is the practice of loading it with procs.
Quote:
| (More radically, I used to think that perhaps the best way to resolve this was to radically reduce the endurance costs and decrease the DPA of most archetype's first two attacks, with appropriate changes in powersets to counterbalance. However, that would be problematic today as there are other balance issue intertwined with tier 1/2 attacks such as defiance.) |
Quote:
Could just make Brawl unslottable like the veteran and origin attacks. If Brawl accepts slots and cost no endurance, I would probably slot it.
|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
The only potential problem I can see with that is proc slotting Brawl, but I haven't done any hard comparisons to see if that holds true. Other than that, I really like it. It increases interactivity pretty much exclusively at low levels without any more potentially game breaking changes. It'd be a slight bump to damage, too. I approve.
|
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Could just make Brawl unslottable like the veteran and origin attacks. If Brawl accepts slots and cost no endurance, I would probably slot it.
|
Would make Brawl useless in the high end, and I don't think that was Arcanaville's goal other than it being sub-optimal dps-wise.
Making the power not allow IO Sets would be a bit more acceptable.
Quote:
Endurance issues at the lower levels is among the lowest of my concerns.|
Originally Posted by Kruunch
How many times do we see new Tankers (and new players) come up here and say something along the lines of "I'm trying a Tanker out and I'm always running out of endurance. Does it get any better?"
This has been an age old problem since the early days of beta. How many subscribing customers have to get frustrated and lose the love for the game before this issue is addressed. Specifically the L1-20 portion of levelling. This applies to almost all ATs hero and villain side, but especially to Tankers who run dry *really* quickly. Suggested Fixed: Do away with TOs and DOs and make SOs available at L1. This would alleviate much of the frustration and tedium that is the current mode of play in the L1-20 game (imo). |
I know it is hard to believe, but part of the act of gaining levels in the game is to give you a feeling of achievement and becoming more powerful.
When you hit 20 and get Stamina and go "Yes! I have enough end now to keep going for a while!" It is a great feeling.
I feel the same way about travel powers at 14 and the "true" capes at level 20.
For that matter, I feel the same way about running mission arcs and running into missions that are too hard to complete until you level up.
If the game is a cake walk the whole way through, there is no challenge. If there is no challenge, there is no game.
Oh, wait, your a farmer, you don't want a challenge or to take time to experience something challenging while you are leveling?!?
My bad.
Fortunately, we aren't all farmers; it is City of Heroes/Villains after all! Some of us actually like the struggle and sense of achievement when we can defeat something that was giving us a hard time or easily defeating us.
I honestly, have heard no one at the lower levels complaining about not regaining end quickly enough recently - and I do play at the lower levels quite often still.
Maybe it is just the Tanks that are complaining?
That would be a shame as they are the Statesman's pet AT, and is over powered as far as I'm concerned (and, yeah, I do play Tanks sometimes).
Or maybe it is that I haven't played on Farmdumb or Virtue recently?
That might be it as well.
Quote:
Except, it currently accepts set IOs, so if some is using it as a set mule now, you'll potentially break their build. It'd be probably be a small change in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure they'd catch some flak for it.
|
Originally Posted by Starsman_NA
Quote:
Making the power not allow IO Sets would be a bit more acceptable |
Quote:
Actually, I have been running an Emp/Ice defender solo without using any Vet powers and I was thinking the same thing. It occurred to me that removing the end use of those 2 powers might be helpful when I found that if I stopped using them I had fewer endurance problems (although I might have some health problems). Unless I really need to kill an enemy quick or I am just being impatient, I try not to use either power anymore (which is very hard, since Ice Blast only gets 2 single target attacks up until level 28).
|
Originally Posted by Kruunch
This would work for Tankers (and Scrappers) but wouldn't necessarily mesh well with ranged based sets (most others).
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kruunch
This would work for Tankers (and Scrappers) but wouldn't necessarily mesh well with ranged based sets (most others).
|
Why not make the Tier I and Tier II powers endurance building attacks? At starter levels you would have little to no endurance issues and later on in your career you could fall back on these attacks to help with any endurance issues that crop up. This would certainly stop Tier I attacks from being passed over as a matter of course.
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Quote:
They could leave Brawl as it currently stands and add a new power called Cuff which is unslottable and costs no endurance. Cuff could be a power automatically added at level 5.
|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Except, it currently accepts set IOs, so if some is using it as a set mule now, you'll potentially break their build. It'd be probably be a small change in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure they'd catch some flak for it.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I honestly stopped reading after the first page where someone said that brutes have the same endurance problems as tanks . . . wrong.
At this point I would like to appologize for the following rant and ask those of you reading this to at least read the following which origionally appeared at the end of my post but I moved up so that people would read it. I tend to get a bit . . . worked up when it comes to tanks. I dont want to be superman ( I actually hate him lol ) but I think tanks could and should be something more.
Add an inherrent, leave gauntlet, its really hardly an inherrent imo. Instead add the following.
Grit : Drawing the ire of your enemies only hardens your resolve to see the fight through to the end.
Use a fury like bar system that increases ONLY through incoming attacks not those you dish out. Have it about as easy to build and maintain as a brutes fury bar currently is. Now instead of having it increase damage, which has been repeatedly rejected , have it decrease the endurance cost of all powers. Something along the lines of .3% end reduction for each percent of Grit. So 90% Grit would give about a 27% end reduction with 30% being the thearetical cap.
I believe this would help bridge the damage gap without actually making them do more damage. While other archtypes are sucking wind and forced to rest the tank could continue to plod on. The old addage of slow and steady wins the race.
Thoughts anyone?
Yes at a glance one could argue that for the most part the endurance consuption of the powers is the same.
One GLARING differance though. By the time the brute takes the alpha strike, even on a small solo mob he is doing more damage than the tank most of the time. Once he is finished with that mob (which he does so much quicker than the tank) he moves on to the next one and starts one hitting minions, for some sets even lt's. Thats before you even reach level 6.
The tankers problem boils down to one thing. Damager per endurance. That simple. If you slot everything for end reduction you can function. At a much slower pace, a brute can do the same thing and still run a nice 70 to 80% rage bar and as I said one shot stuff. If you stock up on blues for at your contact a brute can easily blaze through a mission before those run out. A tank cannot because they cannot do the damage per endurance a brute can.
Oh and dont even get me started on pvp where all the squishies get a free 40% resistance buff that costs them no endurance while tanks have to run 2, 3, heck for some sets 4 not counting tough and weave to get all of their resistance. Brilliant move that. . . .
Ive wanted a buff for tanks in general for a long LONG time. Alot of interesting ideas that would have added some very different strategies to my favorite class have been shot down by the forumites so I do not see anything ever changing.
Now I am going to go read the rest of this thread now so I appologize if the above idea was expressed.
*readies fire extinguisher*
Quote:
Ive always wonderd why one really cannot rest whenever they need to. . . I mean really your tired so you stop to gain your breath. Why does rest have a recharge rate. Making rest have no recharge rate would help the low levels tremendously. Many MMO's have a system where if you simply stop moving in between fights your health and endurance( or mana as many of those games call it) automaticly kick into an accelerated recharge rate.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
[ QUOTE ]
In other words, frustrating the customer is costing CoH money. [/ QUOTE ] Bingo. This game is great fun: faster pace and less frustration than any other MMO I've tried --- once you're able to fix your character's endurance problem. Using Rest, or worse, waiting for Rest to recharge, is frustrating and no fun. And the endurance mechanic means one thing alone: the game is showing its worst face to the new player. A player whose first taste of the game involves lots of waiting for Rest to recharge may be a player who chooses not to renew. If I didn't know it wasn't all like that from 1 to 50, I'd probably quit also. One slightly less drastic solution to the issue than making Stamina inherent might simply be to cut the recharge of Rest to thirty seconds, to make sure it was available when needed. |
It would also make stamina less of manditory selection than it is now. Heck rest might even be worth a slot or two if the recharge rate was gone or significantly diminished.
*readies fire extinguisher*
Quote:
It's not a bad idea, but like many Gauntlet revamp ideas it involves more work then the management of CoH is probably prepared to devote to it.|
Originally Posted by Vicar
I honestly stopped reading after the first page where someone said that brutes have the same endurance problems as tanks . . . wrong.
At this point I would like to appologize for the following rant and ask those of you reading this to at least read the following which origionally appeared at the end of my post but I moved up so that people would read it. I tend to get a bit . . . worked up when it comes to tanks. I dont want to be superman ( I actually hate him lol ) but I think tanks could and should be something more. Add an inherrent, leave gauntlet, its really hardly an inherrent imo. Instead add the following. Grit : Drawing the ire of your enemies only hardens your resolve to see the fight through to the end. Use a fury like bar system that increases ONLY through incoming attacks not those you dish out. Have it about as easy to build and maintain as a brutes fury bar currently is. Now instead of having it increase damage, which has been repeatedly rejected , have it decrease the endurance cost of all powers. Something along the lines of .3% end reduction for each percent of Grit. So 90% Grit would give about a 27% end reduction with 30% being the thearetical cap. I believe this would help bridge the damage gap without actually making them do more damage. While other archtypes are sucking wind and forced to rest the tank could continue to plod on. The old addage of slow and steady wins the race. Thoughts anyone? Yes at a glance one could argue that for the most part the endurance consuption of the powers is the same. One GLARING differance though. By the time the brute takes the alpha strike, even on a small solo mob he is doing more damage than the tank most of the time. Once he is finished with that mob (which he does so much quicker than the tank) he moves on to the next one and starts one hitting minions, for some sets even lt's. Thats before you even reach level 6. The tankers problem boils down to one thing. Damager per endurance. That simple. If you slot everything for end reduction you can function. At a much slower pace, a brute can do the same thing and still run a nice 70 to 80% rage bar and as I said one shot stuff. If you stock up on blues for at your contact a brute can easily blaze through a mission before those run out. A tank cannot because they cannot do the damage per endurance a brute can. Oh and dont even get me started on pvp where all the squishies get a free 40% resistance buff that costs them no endurance while tanks have to run 2, 3, heck for some sets 4 not counting tough and weave to get all of their resistance. Brilliant move that. . . . Ive wanted a buff for tanks in general for a long LONG time. Alot of interesting ideas that would have added some very different strategies to my favorite class have been shot down by the forumites so I do not see anything ever changing. Now I am going to go read the rest of this thread now so I appologize if the above idea was expressed. |
That and as posted in Starsman's Gauntlet 2.0 thread by Castle, he doesn't feel there is a need to adjust Gauntlet (and I take that to mean "add to it" as well). I'm of the personal opinion that no idea will get much attention from the devs that includes an across the board damage buff for Tankers (no matter how situational).
I agree with you about Brutes ... they don't have near the end probs Tankers do for the reasons you've mentioned.
My vote has been and always will be: give all of fitness to each person at level 1. Every single build I have seen that isn't WP or Regen has 3 fitness powers in it, ending with health and stam. Every last one, and alot of regeners and WPers use fitness too. This also opens up another pool choice instead of the standard 1-3 travel, fitness, and possibly med/leadership/fighting/conceal that everyone uses.
if not that, then why not just boost recovery and regen rates by the exact amount health and stam tripple slotted add, and get rid of the pool. Sure some people wont have numia's on health and will drop it somewhere else (rest maybe) but otherwise it affects noone to make this sort of change.
I like how the new tanks are buffed like mad in farms and have no issues most of the time, but think its their build thats uber and don't thank the people spamming heals and such on them. Those are the same people who get in pugs and die quick and are in shock. lol.
Quote:
That'd be a pretty invasive change. While welcome at low levels, it would have a non-trivial impact on other builds. People can slot a lot of things into Fitness. They might slot Swift for runspeed and go without a travel power, or they might slot it for flight speed on a character with Hover. There are a lot of set bonuses that people can get out of Health, too (+maxHP, +regen, +recov, +rech, etc), same with Stamina (+maxHP, +rech, +recov, end proc, etc).|
Originally Posted by Haruu
My vote has been and always will be: give all of fitness to each person at level 1. Every single build I have seen that isn't WP or Regen has 3 fitness powers in it, ending with health and stam. Every last one, and alot of regeners and WPers use fitness too. This also opens up another pool choice instead of the standard 1-3 travel, fitness, and possibly med/leadership/fighting/conceal that everyone uses.
if not that, then why not just boost recovery and regen rates by the exact amount health and stam tripple slotted add, and get rid of the pool. Sure some people wont have numia's on health and will drop it somewhere else (rest maybe) but otherwise it affects noone to make this sort of change. |
It may open up power slots, but some people would feel forced to take a different pool to compensate. If an SR character wanted to slot the Numina, Regen Tissue, and Miracle unqiues, they'd have to take Aid Self and slot the uniques in there and use it once every two minutes. (You can't slot those IOs into Rest.) Aid Self violates a lot of character concepts; not only that, but if someone had AS and Health, they'd be pushed towards suboptimal slotting for AS just to fit the uniques.
(Ironic that this would remove as much customization as it would promote it.)
I can understand why you'd want them to make it passive, but it would create a lot of problems for many IO builds... Far more than making Brawl unslottable.
On the other hand, the damage focused approach is a bit more open to overkill waste.
The accuracy slotting approach is very valid still, after level 12 that accuracy starts to fade and it's good to have some accuracy slotted by level 20.
Mathematically speaking, IF a defender at that level was able to sustain 1 DS per second (and that would require a full rather optimal attack chain) he should be able to kill 6 minions at level 10 in a row, without pauses.
Given he will have to pause due to incomplete attack chain, bottleneck attacks that don't let him attack at optimal speed, and plainly to walk to the next spawn, he should be able to finish the second spawn without running out of endurance but very recommended to rest before the third fight.
All this is not to note that endurance is fine, I noted how I think certain ATs (specially defenders and tankers) have more end issues than others but the entire "can't finish a single spawn without running dry" sounds extremely overstated.
Tankers may have higher damage than what I just stated but they also run toggles to be, well, tankers. Oh and yes, I accounted for the low level modifiers on this test. Running the similar thing with tankers does not give tankers that big of an advantage over the defender, he would also have to rest after the 2nd heroic spawn (nonstop fighting dishing 1ds of damage.)