How many new players have to complain ...

Here is an example of the problem.

Omphale is an Inv/DM tanker, rolled as one of my 2XP weekend lowbies. At the time of these screenshots, she was 14. (15 now. Synapse planned later today on Victory, if you are interested.)

In this screenshot, she has only 1/3 of her endurance bar left after having soloed 2 even level level 14 Skulls, one a minion, the other a lieutenant. I did not need to use the self-heal, which as you can see is charged. These were the first two spawns in the instance;

This screenshot shows the character's current slotting, which is probably unusually good for a level 14 character; she's been twinked by my craft-badger. I have neglected neither accuracy nor endurance reduction. A character without those resources would probably still be mostly slotted with TOs.

After defeating two even level Skulls, she's in no shape to move on to the next spawn, where she will run out of endurance, fight very slowly while waiting for it to recover, or drop toggles and lose as much health or more as she's lost endurance. On a team, facing larger spawns, and where the character needs to attack to hold aggro (Inv has no aura until level 18) she will be even less ready for the next spawn after fighting a regular spawn on Heroic.

I do not believe that my slotting is unreasonable, and my pace of play would be reasonable elsewhere in the game. I was not taking on unreasonable challenges. After a single normal fight 2/3 of my endurance is gone.

This is not the game showing its best face to the new player. Opinions may vary on what to do about the endurance issue. But those who deny that it is a problem that needs solving are simply talking nonsense.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

One handy mantra I learned from smurphy: A single, even-level TO of end redux in each attack works out as more endurance efficient than having stamina with three SOs in it.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Also, if you want to give advice on how new players should play, the words 'Sands of Mu' or any other veteran power is somewhat pointless to give or display.

Actually it makes sense. Three SOs of stamina give you .42 end/second. If you use one attack every second, then a single TO, being 8.3%, will reduce your endurance use of that power by 7.6%. In order to get a saving greater than .42/second, you'd have to be using end at about 5.5/second. Now look at most of your attacks. Most of them actually consume more than that, and if you have a sustained attack chain, assuming approx 1 sec activation time, 5.5/second is EASY to get before enhancements.

So, decreasing your powers by an even level TO will affect your build more if you are end-heavy. And the heavier your end, the MORE it affects your build.

Besides, Stamina doesn't help you pre-level 20, which is what this thread is about. Pre-level 20, slot for End-red and Accuracy. It makes a greater difference than less-than-an-SO in damage will.

I am not sure a change is needed. I think that much endurance can be saved by how a team makes an effort to play together. It was mud thrown at a wall to see if it sticks.

I think the whole stop and gasp from air can come from people not giving their insps to other people whom those insps go furthest on. To work best like that a tank whom greens, lucks and sturdies can go furthest on would need to ensure the rest of the team really doesn't need them. It can also come from lowbies being on what suspiciously looks like a farm map allowing little time between groups for end recovery. People fighting way above their weight due to a empath in tow healing, fighting levels which are so high they maybe good xp when defeated but they're poor xp/time.

Aside from a beginners luck type mechanic in terms of end recovery the insp tray could size up sooner. Why not be level 15 with 15 insp slots as opposed to 10 slots? Then you have more assistance in every area.

A lvl 15 in Bloody Bay would probably have as many insp slots as a lvl 25 in Bloody Bay. I have never counted the insp slots in a PvP zone for the different levels but if they're not the same for everyone then where is the balance?

I don't PvP.

I'm just playing a dom, and a thought sort of broadsided me as I was playing: Instead of changing anything about the powers, what if the power of endurance inspirations were increased? The problem I'm finding is that one CaB will give me 25 more endurance. When you look at the base cost of powers, even if they're enhanced, you're only going to get another 2 or 3 attacks off.

If the blue inspirations were on a scale of something like (and this is just a gut feeling, not anything that's been meticulously calculated) 33 for the Catch a Breath, 50 for Take a Breather, and 66 for Second Wind, then you would need to hold on to fewer to regain a full bar, plus you'd be able to squeeze in another attack or two from one insp. As an added bonus, there's still incentive to slot for endurance reduction, since you'll be able to go further on one insp with endrdx than without. It still requires at least 2 insps to fill your bar, and unlike purples, you're not getting any bonus by popping 4 or 5 at a time.

The low level play experience on Tankers is just awful. Low damage output, Endurance hogging, really the stuff of fun-killing.

What has helped me get a toe-hold at long last in the Tanker Archetype is dual builds (so you can make a Scranker/fast-attack-Tanker build) and Patrol XP (which gets you through those painful low levels more quickly, and enforces a 7 to 10 day break from playing the character to re-accumulate; works best if you've got lots of alts, of course).

What would also help tremendously (not just Tankers but everyone) is putting Endurance Reduction Enhancements on a more forgiving schedule (I like Schedule D as that would truly allow for Staminaless builds to actually perform well).

WARNING: I bold names.

Thanks Sorciere and Starsman for posting some mathematics behind attacks. I was always a bit skeptical about slotting attacks with End Reduction in the early game.....especially when I tried it and found many of the same endurance issues as before.

The biggest improvement by far was when I was able to combine inspirations. I simply started creating blues whenever I had an opportunity with newer characters, and that made a tremendous difference. I still occasionally have Endurance problems, but usually only when Inspiration drops dry up...happens for an entire mission sometimes.

Stamina isn't the issue here however since we're discussing pre-Stamina levels.

The very fact that scrappers do more dam per end means they need to attack less. Attacking less means that the endurance bar isn't getting low as quick. This means that they are end recovering from a point at which they have more endurance. Controllers do worse base damage but don't need to run or are not often seen running toggles which has an effect on their recovery. Defenders do worse base damage but if running toggles could be increasing the effectiveness of attacks.

In the lower levels of tanking I am still herding accumulating at least 10 around me. AoEs get used in that case and stacked AoEs on 10 enemies save on endurance because the dam per end versus group is very high. To be efficient as a Tank one could invite AoE toons to the team, keep them safe by tanking like a lvl 50! Well atleast steamrolling Frostfire for a lvl 6 Icetank ain't too much of a problem in a good team.

AoE dam per end on ST is poor, times that by 10 though and its great, in case of hit 10 aoes, theyre 2.5 times as effective as STs. Herd off the bat!