You miss the point. Have you ever soloed 200 Paragon Protector Bosses? (never mind had to deal with mobs with them), even with a team it takes a quite a while. I can solo 200 Protectors as a Hero in an evening solo, in about an hour or 2 with a team (via mission full of minions). And 5 hours PvP zone camping is 5 hours of my system churing away while I have to do something else - per zone.
I would imagine the process to change sides will be more interesting than either of those options.
Besides by chooseing your missions correctly you will likely start in a better position than if you don't. Lots of mission say Hero or Villain, avoiding them, when possible, will probably make the process of shedding points faster. Unless they put a fairly low ceiling on max Rogue points, in which case none of your actions really matter.
Again Low Ceiling = Easier to change sides so complainers/ADD players happier
Higher Ceiling = better play experience (if I'm really evil no one is going to trust I have changed sides as easily as someone who has only engaged in gang wars)
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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Actually, they're easier to get redside. Especially since the change. There are no longer any PvP-related requirements, and no 5-hour badges. The damage badge can now be done in just a few hours, and the debt badge is possible to get on the way to 50 by accident.|
Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
3) Preserves game imbalances. Much easier to get many Accolades as a Hero than as a Villain. This is a problem because again people would complain about having to become a hero to get Accolades easier (Atlas and Crey Accolades are especially easy for heros plus no 5 hour badges).
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The hero ones are much more difficult. Geas of the Kind Ones requires about 1600 kills in a zone most people won't visit, against enemies that only exist in that zone, as well as 2 GMs and a Task Force. TFC requires SIX entire Task Forces. Portal Jockey requires THIRTEEN, SPECIFIC arch-villains. Magus requires numerous hunts against rare, annoying enemies. Even if farmed once gray, the enemies can be hard to track down and very time-consuming.
By comparison, CoV accolades are mostly easy things. The "difficult" aspects of each one are things you can do fairly easily, such as take 1m damage, kill 200 ice demons (very easy to find in Nerva), or do ONE-HALF of a task force. The only actually time-consuming villain badge is Force of Nature.
In fact, my main concern with side switching is that I'll have to re-earn accolades on villains that switch over. Which I don't want to do, because all my dedicated villains have all the main accolades, while for the life of me I've NEVER sat down and grinded out the requirements for TFC, and have only done Portal Jockey and Geas once.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Thanks to the changes, my tanker solo'ed the entire arc in 4 hours. Problem?
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Portal Jockey requires THIRTEEN, SPECIFIC arch-villains.
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"Your voice holds the key to your society
Expose the ones that want to **** it up for you and me
No more of settling for what they feed
The time has come to put the pressure up against the greed"
- Senser, "Resistance Now"
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Shuuuu, Don't say things like that some of us haven't done so yet. And if you think it's to easy ramp up the difficulty. You have no right to complain about something that you can fix so easily you're self. And frankly I rather doubt anyone here wants to hear it. There are other parts of the forum for complaints and if you or anyone else want's do discusses it in a calm reasonable manner you're more than welcome to go there where you can safely ignored in peace.|
Originally Posted by Soundwave_NA
Thanks to the changes, my tanker solo'ed the entire arc in 4 hours. Problem?
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I think everybody for there patience for what I am hoping is the first, last, and only rant in this particular topic at least.
Edit: Whops, almost forgot please see the Hero Corps Field Analyst to adjust you're difficulty level and use the flashback system via Ouroboros to replay the mission.
something i realy want to know is whats going to happen with the epic power pools.
will heroes keep their anciliarys, have to change to patrons or will they get to choose to keep or change?
and vice versa for the villains?
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I'm still wondering about this. I imagine that if you're a Brute and you get up to 41 and grab Mu Mastery, then go to Paragon, you still keep it.|
Originally Posted by Xurril
something i realy want to know is whats going to happen with the epic power pools.
will heroes keep their anciliarys, have to change to patrons or will they get to choose to keep or change? and vice versa for the villains? |
However, if you're a Brute, and you switch to rogue at 39, do you still get to have a patron?
And worst of all, if you start as a Brute in Praetoria and decide to be a hero, and never touch redside, do you get patrons? How's that work?
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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This is definately a question worth answering, although it may not be one the devs have made a final decision on, like SG membership. There's a complication, though. If you assume Villains should be able to go over to the Hero side and get Hero Epics, which ones do they get? Brutes are not Tankers or Scrappers, and Dominators are not Blasters or Controllers. Certainly no hero side Epic has Sniper blasts, like Stalkers do. So either the devs are going to have to create a whole new set of Epic powers for each of the five new ATs on that side, or they will have to come up with some way for the Villain ATs to access the Patron Pools from Paragon City. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
And worst of all, if you start as a Brute in Praetoria and decide to be a hero, and never touch redside, do you get patrons? How's that work?
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One thought I have, however, is that Praetoria may introduce a whole new set of Epic Pools for the 10 ATs, independent of what we already have. Any character would be able to access these pools, because any character will have access to Praetoria. A Hero that goes over to the Villain side may be locked out of the Patrons (because they don't match his AT) but he can use the Praetorian options.
If it were me, I would add Patrons to the hero side, and make the Epics, which you don't need to do an arc to get, the "neutral" option, adding new sets of Powers for the five villain ATs. We would still need 40-50 new Power Sets, 4-5 for each of the 10 ATs, but it would be more of a balance.
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That's what I would do.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
If it were me, I would add Patrons to the hero side, and make the Epics, which you don't need to do an arc to get, the "neutral" option, adding new sets of Powers for the five villain ATs. We would still need 40-50 new Power Sets, 4-5 for each of the 10 ATs, but it would be more of a balance.
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Make patrons heroside, for villainous ATs who are coming blueside, even if they START blueside. Allow heroic ATs to keep the epics they currently have, even if they start red.
Later down the road, make "non-patron" epics for red ATs, that they can just have at 41. This allows everyone to have something at 41, whether they did arcs or not. You'll also have to add patron pools for blue ATs, who are redside.
Doubles the number of available epics, more or less. And would probably be the best solution overall, especially with side-switching and crossovers going on.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I would think the "non-patron" epics would need to be the priority, because there needs to be an option for Preatorian versions of the redside ATs. The blueside ATs can just pick up their Epics, because they don't need to do an arc to unlock them, but the redside have nothing but the Patrons. If you can't get to the Rogue Isles, you're stuck without a choice.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Later down the road, make "non-patron" epics for red ATs, that they can just have at 41. This allows everyone to have something at 41, whether they did arcs or not. You'll also have to add patron pools for blue ATs, who are redside.
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True.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I would think the "non-patron" epics would need to be the priority, because there needs to be an option for Preatorian versions of the redside ATs. The blueside ATs can just pick up their Epics, because they don't need to do an arc to unlock them, but the redside have nothing but the Patrons. If you can't get to the Rogue Isles, you're stuck without a choice.
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Non-patron epics for all! We can fill in patron-epics somewhere later down the line. But non-patron epics are universal and can go to people no matter what their alignment.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Well, I suppose a third alternative would be to lock off the Hero Epics with a Patron Arc that the Heroes will have to do, and then add another Patron Arc in Preatoria that either side can access... heheheheheheheheh... okay, I'm being evil...
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Originally Posted by Dispari
True.
Non-patron epics for all! We can fill in patron-epics somewhere later down the line. But non-patron epics are universal and can go to people no matter what their alignment. |
Hopefully they hook us up with some way for the ATs to get their Heroic/Villanous counterpart's epic/Patron Pools
My Perma AM/Hasten Rad Defender would love to have A pet to help against hardened targets with some extra Damage, and a Fire/Kin Corruptor with Thunderstrike would be fun to behold.
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Actually, that's a big point right there. If you switch sides, how do you keep your Arachnos minion with you? By force? Mastermind henchmen I can see, you've gained their loyalty in some way (or completely control their minds) but the Patron Pets are working for Arachnos. They're probably even assigned to you by your Patron. They're probably not going to like you going over to Paragon City and being best buddies with Statesman. |
Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
My Perma AM/Hasten Rad Defender would love to have A pet to help against hardened targets with some extra Damage,
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It would be a lot more logical to have new sets of Epic Powers for villains that have no pet at all, allowing them to have a fifth power more similar to their hero counterparts. Meanwhile, the heroes might be able to form an alliance with a Freedom Corps Patron and gain a Longbow agent they can summon to help in a fight. That way, each player gets to decide for himself if a pet power is useless or not.
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On the other hand, it could be a win-win situation for Arachnos (from a role playing standpoint.) Every time you summon your Arachnos minion, you're revealing your exact position and precisely what you're up to and who you're with. And that's not even counting people who want to play as a spy for one side or the other. And the people who want to pretend that they have the assistance of an Arachnos minion who has also gone rogue. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Actually, that's a big point right there. If you switch sides, how do you keep your Arachnos minion with you? By force? Mastermind henchmen I can see, you've gained their loyalty in some way (or completely control their minds) but the Patron Pets are working for Arachnos. They're probably even assigned to you by your Patron. They're probably not going to like you going over to Paragon City and being best buddies with Statesman.
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From a gameplay perspective, I can't seem them automatically stripping away a power that a player has already chosen. If they force it to switch to something else when you change sides, what happens to the IOs that are slotted? What I *can* see them doing is dropping a huge pile of Villain points on the Patron arcs - if you want to be a hero after you get the Patron powers, you're welcome to try, but you'd be starting from zero or less on the "good guy" scale.
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Well, they require SoA to respec when they reach 20, they could certainly give out a free respec to Villains that go Hero, particularly if they have a Patron Epic.|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
From a gameplay perspective, I can't seem them automatically stripping away a power that a player has already chosen. If they force it to switch to something else when you change sides, what happens to the IOs that are slotted?
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A better solution might be to have the pet go all "mercenary". His costume gets all ratty and his armor gets dented because he can't repair it any more, and he constantly complains about "I can't get Arachnos ammo any more for my guns".
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Meh, At the end of The destined one arc Recluse tells you to do whatever you want to do anyways...so *shrug* Rachnos is all about respect through curbstomping I don't see why they would care what you do after you stomped em.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Actually, that's a big point right there. If you switch sides, how do you keep your Arachnos minion with you? By force? Mastermind henchmen I can see, you've gained their loyalty in some way (or completely control their minds) but the Patron Pets are working for Arachnos. They're probably even assigned to you by your Patron. They're probably not going to like you going over to Paragon City and being best buddies with Statesman.
It would be a lot more logical to have new sets of Epic Powers for villains that have no pet at all, allowing them to have a fifth power more similar to their hero counterparts. Meanwhile, the heroes might be able to form an alliance with a Freedom Corps Patron and gain a Longbow agent they can summon to help in a fight. That way, each player gets to decide for himself if a pet power is useless or not. |
Edit : I do want to say, that the Corruptor and Defender pools would work so much better on their cross faction counterparts, a Defender needs the extra damage that the pet can dish out, and a Corruptor could abuse the snot out of a High Damage melee attack like total Focus or Thunder strike.
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thts a good idea, the spider bots get a paint job, |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
A better solution might be to have the pet go all "mercenary". His costume gets all ratty and his armor gets dented because he can't repair it any more, and he constantly complains about "I can't get Arachnos ammo any more for my guns".
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Mu pets ditch the arachnos helmets and shoulder pads, maybe change the colour of their wraps,
corals can stay the same as they are summoned by you not asigned,
not sure what widow/fortunata pets would do maybe some kind of civilian outfit?
anyway reskining them when you go hero would work rp wise and let you keep the same powers.
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Correction: When they hit 24.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Well, they require SoA to respec when they reach 20, they could certainly give out a free respec to Villains that go Hero, particularly if they have a Patron Epic.
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Also, that's a one-time thing. It would be awfully abusive to "force" players to respec every time they switched sides. With some work with arcs, that's unlimited respecs. The only way to prevent abuse would be to limit side-switching (which is a bad idea), or not force respecs (which defeats the purpose).
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Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
Correction: When they hit 24.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Wouldn't it be best just to have the EAT, Patron, and Ancillary pool's be unlocked by some high level quest for the specific faction. Thin it wouldn't mater if you were a hero or villain. A hero could easily do something to earn Lord Recluse's favor (earning them Patron power-set) just as a villain could earn the respect of Statesman (earning Ancillary power set). And both faction are against the Rikti and Tyrant (Earning both EAT's).
Alternatively If there is an evil alt Statesman there almost invariably will be a good alt Lord Recluse who would be glad to give good ex-villains the same Patron powers as his prime main world counterpart.
(Mirrored from my post at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...71#post2393771)
About the idea of faction reputations.
I can think of four factions being talked about with GR. Heroes, Villains, Pro-Praetorian Gov. and Anti-Praetorian Gov.
I wonder if their will be any others. Minor ones. Perhaps a hero can gain reputation with Paragon Police or a villain with 5th Column or The Counsel. I am thinking something similar with how Vanguard Merits are gained. That may be more practical. The Merits could then be used to purchase minor temp powers, costume pieces, badges.
I am sure some badge hounds who would love to kick **** for The 5th Column to get a shiny Minion of the 5th badge or something more elegant.
I am not suggesting a zone dedicated to such a minor faction as the RWZ is for Vanguard. One or two contacts with half a dozen repeatable quests would suffice
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Sort of like the reverse of defeat badges. :P I like it. A howl slew of mini arcs. Mabe using the random paper/radio missions as a base.
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Originally Posted by gdoom
About the idea of faction reputations.
I can think of four factions being talked about with GR. Heroes, Villains, Pro-Praetorian Gov. and Anti-Praetorian Gov. I wonder if their will be any others. Minor ones. Perhaps a hero can gain reputation with Paragon Police or a villain with 5th Column or The Counsel. I am thinking something similar with how Vanguard Merits are gained. That may be more practical. The Merits could then be used to purchase minor temp powers, costume pieces, badges. I am sure some badge hounds who would love to kick **** for The 5th Column to get a shiny ‘Minion of the 5th’ badge or something more elegant. I am not suggesting a zone dedicated to such a minor faction as the RWZ is for Vanguard. One or two contacts with half a dozen repeatable quests would suffice |
My question is, can I get cold feet? Is the transition one way when you start? as in, do I have to go in one direction? Can I start roguing in one direction and then switch backwards?
I know that the inbetweens can go both sides, but and that they're in between sides, and in transition to going to the other side. And that you can just stay in the middle if you want to, but can I go halfway and then go back. Let's say I'm a hero, and I start to question the effectiveness of "traditional" heroics. I drop deeper and deeper into the realm of super-humanry. and just before I allow myself to subtly slip into the realm of evil, I see something so horrible it makes me take a good look at myself and really think about what's going on in my life, and climb back up out of that whole.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
Have you noticed that in one of the previous issues they started labeling some of the missions with big blue Hero or Red villeins? That's probably part of the bases of the alignment exchange. Having to something like run a ark to get rouge status thin run random missions to change your alignment far enough to one side or another. Thin another ark to completely switch over to the other side.
They might even make some sort of penalty, to make a second switch harder, as your former friends might not be that willing to welcome you back
One thing I'm curious to see is what incentive there will be for characters that don't switch sides. One of the interviews mentions that there will be some kind of reward for characters that pick a side and stick with it.