*still farms and gets to 50 in AE, for the umpteenth time*
In my opinion and experience, the difference is in the exposure level and how it skews Devs' perception and may trigger game-changes that are a) modifying the games in ways that are annoying to AE authors; b) simply wouldn't have been required had the Devs' originally limited AE by-design.
Not everyone has a DA/* tank to take to the ITF, and not everyone stops to think about min/maxing the ITF by using a DA/* tank. It's simply the ease of use with which one can access a specially made farming-mission that was crafted to min/max RvR that eventually triggers the Devs' response.
I personally lament the exclusion of several graphic animations that I could use in the past for Allies in my AE missions. I have absolutely no doubt that those animations were taken out to prevent AE farming missions from excessively marking Allies in those out-door maps (admittedly something I have done as well in my own story-arc) so that it'd be easier and faster to farm!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Here's the trick to run taskforces and strikeforces:
1) Start the team yourself instead of waiting for others.
2) Do a Search Channels (with the name of your forums, or sort them by most members, etc...) and add yourself to them. I play on Virtue and I use Virtuebadges09; VU2009; Virtue TFs; Virtue LFG; Virtue's LRSF; 2 other channels pertaining to Architect; and 3 other channels that are private that I got invited (2 of about 20 members, and one of 200 members).
There's always team forming for SFs and TFs and Raids and whatnot if you use channels. That's why you dont see people gathering around the contacts very often. Teams are already made up, and the leader go see the contact, click it, and go away.
Arc ID 104041 Attack of the Mini Phalanx Solo Friendly; Custom Characters; Comedy.
Arc ID 292449 The Shadow of Eihbon Solo Friendly; Canon Related; Magic.
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the trick to run taskforces and strikeforces:
1) Start the team yourself instead of waiting for others.
2) Do a Search Channels (with the name of your forums, or sort them by most members, etc...) and add yourself to them. I play on Virtue and I use Virtuebadges09; VU2009; Virtue TFs; Virtue LFG; Virtue's LRSF; 2 other channels pertaining to Architect; and 3 other channels that are private that I got invited (2 of about 20 members, and one of 200 members).
There's always team forming for SFs and TFs and Raids and whatnot if you use channels. That's why you dont see people gathering around the contacts very often. Teams are already made up, and the leader go see the contact, click it, and go away.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats the thing though Pho. I've been saying this for week. so have others. They still complain, so the only logical explanation i have is that the people whining are the people who refuse to take the initiative and lead and want the game to simply service their laziness.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
Sometimes I lead, other times I follow... oftentimes I'm just lazy so I go read a book, watch a TV-show or movie or play some single-player RPG.
I'm still sad about AE though and being not-lazy and playing TF's, alas, won't cure my sadness... you know...? 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I was going to chime in with an observation about the differences between regular content players and AE players and how content can shape how a character is built.
But I kept shooting my own observations down when I took into consideration the Alternate Built feature the game has. You could make a one dimensional character for AE Farming and such, then switch over to your regular play character that has travel powers, defenses, contingincies and such.
The short of it is, the game is made so you can have two different play styles and still enjoy yourself.
---
As for how AE keeps players from experiencing regular content ...
It does. But those are possibly players that simply don't want to play this game and experience that content. Forcing them to play content they either hate or have done so many times as to be boring - they have such a valid point.
Only issue I ever have with AE is risk vs reward issues that I'm sure will be fixed - and hopefully not upset players too much in the process.
It's not so much the risk/reward scale that bothers me so much about farming, more so the fact that City is suddenly seeing a rise of level 50 characters with NO CONCEPT of how to play their character, or what the higher level challenges of the game entitle. I can't think of how many 50's I've run into lately that don't even know the most common acronyms used in the game (like dps, or most of the zone acronyms like PI and AP), or have never heard of the higher level villain groups or TF/SF's. Did I mention alot of these 50's don't even have the 3 month vet reward typically as well?
Farming is boring as hell, straight up...speaking from the view point of a former farmer who's suffering from extreme burn-out as a result. First it was the comm farms, then the custom farms till the mandatory ranged attack changes, then everything switched to Maniac bosses....and now apparently people have moved back into the Hami mitos since they're apparently accessible again (even though they shouldn't be).
At first I didn't want to admit it, but sadly after a few months of seeing next to no changes in game play in regards to farming (if anything it got worse with I15 by the looks), the MA will likely be the downfall of City unless exploitative issues and other abused [censored] are addressed and rectified.
Eliminate AE xp? That sounds like a damn good idea actually after the numerous fixes and changes the Dev's have implemented that are really having no deterring effect on the problem. Remove xp and rewards and turn the MA into a purely content-driven aspect? Harsh yes...but at this point sugar-coating and coddling are getting people no where fast.
Flame all you want, but the facts are obvious. The risk/reward scale for the MA needs to be revamped...and preferably removed from the game. Remove the rewards, the exploitation will cease as people will go looking for another fast-fix and find nothing as easy as the last few months have been.
Hello cold, sobering reality...
@Dispari's Personal Assistant
"I might not be 'l33t', but that doesn't change that you're still a noob..."
Everything you suggest will kill AE entirely. They may as well pull it from the game and shut the servers down at that point.
I agree the award system (including xp) does need to be looked at but removing it entirely will kill the MA dead. Despite what you may believe, it won't become a place where people run 5 long mission arcs for the story alone (which is only really visible to the team leader.) No, it would die off and just become a waste of server space.
Very few people would touch the AE if it had no rewards whatsoever (and it wouldn't be touched by anyone below 50.) Pulling the rewards out of the MA completely is what will kill City.
When I am looking for a serious team, I look for people of appropriate levels in appropriate zones first. A level 20+ really shouldn't be in atlas that long, unless they are doing AE... After that I look for my level in ANY zone other than Atlas. Lastly I look to the tried and true Peregrine. At least you know they are probably hunting AVs or something, because it is no longer more economical to farm in Peregrine, unless going for purples.
I don't really have any trouble putting together a team. Usually the hard part is just getting started with it. You will see 3 or 4 people LFT in broadcast. Generally one guy can get them together and just start running people with 4 people and then the leader just has to keep an eye out for others between missions.
you don't HAVE to have 8 people in your team at all times. Even so I have had little trouble this last week putting together 8 man teams both blue and redside. At non peak hours too since I normaly play late evenings early monrings.
Yeah I occasionally pop into the AE for a unique story I've never done before. I don't hang around all day. Those that do.More power to em. That's the great thing about having choice. I don't have to play their way and they don't have to play mine.
it's not that hard to find a team, maybe you're just having a slow-teaming day?
[ QUOTE ]
Eliminate AE xp? That sounds like a damn good idea actually after the numerous fixes and changes the Dev's have implemented that are really having no deterring effect on the problem. Remove xp and rewards and turn the MA into a purely content-driven aspect? Harsh yes...but at this point sugar-coating and coddling are getting people no where fast.
[/ QUOTE ]They may as well make Architect a stand-alone builder just for the user then. I don't farm or anything specifically for xp, and I don't really care about xp rates... I do care if I get xp at all though, and I am sure I am not the only player like that. If I get 500 instead of 5000 per enemy, so what, as long as I get my 500. The system is broken, but taking out all rewards is not going to help it.
Yeah, I was a tad annoyed when I was writing that post...and afterwards my roomie commented that reducing the rewards (much like they did with Family to kill the family farms) would be a better approach.
I humbly withdraw my "Remove all xp" comment in favor of reduced rewards :P
@Dispari's Personal Assistant
"I might not be 'l33t', but that doesn't change that you're still a noob..."
[ QUOTE ]
Despite what you may believe, it won't become a place where people run 5 long mission arcs for the story alone (which is only really visible to the team leader.) No, it would die off and just become a waste of server space.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two things;
1. All team members can view the story details by clicking on the "Mission" below your compass once the mission has been accepted by the team leader. Team members also get any clue text provided.
2. I would run good story arcs repeatedly for no XP since I enjoy the story. I've done this via Oro for arcs in the game that I enjoy prior to AE being introduced.
Removing XP and tickets would hurt the AE considerably, but professing it is the end all doom of the entire game is wishful thinking. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would run good arcs for little or no xp if it were a good story.
[ QUOTE ]
Very few people would touch the AE if it had no rewards whatsoever (and it wouldn't be touched by anyone below 50.)
[/ QUOTE ]
If they remove XP and remove Debt, then people below 50 would not have so much of an issue running AE content just for the story and not have to worry about all risk and no reward.
I don't agree with removing XP entirely from the AE, but I will put money on the devs rolling out diminishing returns on the XP from AE arcs in the near future. It's easier to implement than to re-work the AE system in general to stop exploits and farms.
AS it stands now people just grind through newspaper missions most of the time. When I lead a team I can occasionally steer them towards the AE for an arc before heading back out to do radio missions and safeguards again. If you eliminate or reduce the rewards how would this play out? Players already hate extended downtime between missions. How are we supposed to hold their interest when the missions itself is downtime?
It's not as critical Redside but on Blueside it is a different story. The devs have yet to fix their boneheaded decision to have nearly every mission in an arc be in a different zone and each of those zones be located somewhere other than where the contact is. You can't really run arcs efficiently like that. It creates alot of stopping and going. The few zones where this isn't an issue have been done to death and you get often get a violently negative reaction from people if you even suggest doing the hollows, for example. On Red side the stories are all pretty much contained in one area and You can generally knock out one of those arcs efficiently. It provides a nice break from doing constant mayhem and newspaper missions while also occasionally putting players in unique situations that are otherwise unavailable in newspaper missions.
Heck. One of the biggest appeals to me about the AE is that I'm not fighting X group yet again. I am facing unique foes or I'm fighting some of the older foes with a twist. I've been around for 5 years. I still like the game. I still like the NPC groups but They are getting stale and highly predictable now. The AE Provides fresh content. New enemy groups whose powers I don't have memorized from the outset.
As a team leader if I am able to provide fresh experiences along with XP that is a win/win. I like to get a team warmed up with radio/newspaper missions to see how they work together then I like having the ability to shake it up a little to help hold peoples interest. TF's are generally a no go for a variety of reasons the main one being a time commitment. Mission arcs are great but slow on blue side and not overly unique on either side. The AE solves this.
Y'now. I just finished a mothership raid (with 5 teams of people there, no less) and zoned into Atlas on infinity. The first two broadcasts I saw?
"Lfm for perez street sweeping team" and "need one more for sewers"
Yeah. The AE sure killed pugs on Infinity during US primetime alright. 
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
I see the same thing. What I don't understand is this negative reaction to people enjoying the game. I don't see why people have to be forced to play their way. Sure it might be frustrating being unable to find a team some nights. It happens. Some nights are slow. Big whoop.
It would never even occur to me to start walking up to random people and demand they stop what they are doing and start doing what I want to do. Let alone start petitioning the devs to change the game and force them to stop. I think people need to grow up a little and learn that the world doesn't revolve around them. Despite the rhetoric not 'everyone' is farming in the AE.
Heck. The AE is still the new shiny anyway. People always hang out around the new shiny. In fact you actually see variants of these kinds of threads every issue. People complain that noone does such and such anymore and that people must have left the game in droves when in truth they are just doing what is new. I remember this was especially true when Oroborous was released. People complained that that was all anyone ever did.
[ QUOTE ]
I see the same thing. What I don't understand is this negative reaction to people enjoying the game. I don't see why people have to be forced to play their way. Sure it might be frustrating being unable to find a team some nights. It happens. Some nights are slow. Big whoop.
It would never even occur to me to start walking up to random people and demand they stop what they are doing and start doing what I want to do. Let alone start petitioning the devs to change the game and force them to stop. I think people need to grow up a little and learn that the world doesn't revolve around them. Despite the rhetoric not 'everyone' is farming in the AE.
Heck. The AE is still the new shiny anyway. People always hang out around the new shiny. In fact you actually see variants of these kinds of threads every issue. People complain that noone does such and such anymore and that people must have left the game in droves when in truth they are just doing what is new. I remember this was especially true when Oroborous was released. People complained that that was all anyone ever did.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely this.
Also, I find that that I spend too much time watching your avatar. I also find it very appropriate that Data would be driving.
[ QUOTE ]
I just can't get the urge to play anymore if the future is farming, farming, farming. Heck the groups are so bored now no one ever chats or even comments. Just heading from one boss mega group to the next. Turn on the TV and smash the AOE's until they are dead and move on. People can't even get excited to say "Congrats" when you ding.
I think my time with this game might have come to an end.
I'm very sad.
[/ QUOTE ]
So here we are.
You have the choice.
You can take the Blue Pill and become a farmer and believe that you are actually playing the game by exploiting the system and rushing through the experience of leveling your character.
-or-
You can take the Red Pill and join the players that enjoy all the wonders of the "normal" game and run AE missions with actual story lines.
And yeah, the Farmers are noisy and obvious .... so easy to find.
The rest of us aren't so easy to find because of the wall of noise and confusion from the Farmers, but we are out here. You might not be as virulently anti-farmer as I am but that doesn't mean that you can't join me and others like me to avoid farmers and, therefore, enrich and engage in the kind of game that we want to be playing in this City of Heroes (and Villains).
We are out here. We do find and create teams.
I'm on all the servers.
You are not alone.
...oh, and, btw, gratz!
Well Scott you gotta understand. Most farmers or AE teams have been on the game for a while. Been here since beta on and off. And while playing missions is fun, and unlocking story arcs nice, I literally know every mission like the back of my hand. Now don't get me wrong, that doesn't stop me from doing them again. I love the replay value of a good arc with smart team members. But, some of us want to get passed the very slow 1-22 run for SO's levels. Atleast I do. I think its nice to just do some farms and come out and do some missions. The dichotomy is slightly teetering to the farm side obviously, but that doesn't stop me from finding non AE teams.
Secondly, I understand what your saying, this doesn't help "newbies" who want to learn more about their class or the game. I had one Tank ask "whats striga" at lvel 43. It happens. While I'm always willing to help anyone new to the game out, they just don't say anything, they don't ask for help, and they don't seem to want it. My best attempt is to point them toward the forums for info, but in the end its up to them.
Then again you could have gotten bad luck that day. I mean recently I found teams doing all the TF's (was going for TF accolade) and that was over the span of four nights. So it really all depends on chance. My best advice; join your Sever channel and broadcast TF's or arc's you want done. Theres always someone. Or you could join an SG and have some of your mates help you. Havent had a problem using both tactics on different servers.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
It's not that white and black Alt. Some of us like both. I can spend hours playing TF's and random radio missions and or bank jobs. But I also like getting passed those annoying low levels. Though even then , doing a few Sewer runs doesn't bother me that much. And I actually like Kings Row, but I digress.
I know many will go the AE route, but I still see Sewer teams being formed and TF's still being ran. So while it may be "annoying" that many do the ae, many others still do the "normal" game. Combine both those pills and make room for us Purple pills 
.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
[ QUOTE ]
As for how AE keeps players from experiencing regular content ...
It does. But those are possibly players that simply don't want to play this game and experience that content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then why are those players playing this game?
What did they think was so cool about CoX that they decided to subscribe to it and then ....
[ QUOTE ]
...don't want to play this game and experience that content...
[/ QUOTE ] ...that makes the game CoX?
Are you implying that they are playing the game only because they CAN EXPLOIT IT?
You may have a point there.
[satire]Hurrah! for all the new subscribers that are only here because they CAN EXPLOIT THE GAME![/satire]
I don't mind that Exploiters are paying to support the content that the rest of us play, I just don't want to see and hear from you any more. It seems that the DEVs aren't doing anything active about this so I am.
Easy enough. Ignore them in the forums. Ignore them in the game. One star their accounts using the Notes system. Go into Options and set your options to "show stars". Don't game with anyone with one star (as they are part of the problem).
Easily done.
Farmers are empty shells.
I'm glad to game with a bunch of cool people that enjoy this game because they are playing supers. You all make this game great.
See you in the City.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for how AE keeps players from experiencing regular content ...
It does. But those are possibly players that simply don't want to play this game and experience that content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then why are those players playing this game?
What did they think was so cool about CoX that they decided to subscribe to it and then ....
[ QUOTE ]
...don't want to play this game and experience that content...
[/ QUOTE ] ...that makes the game CoX?
Are you implying that they are playing the game only because they CAN EXPLOIT IT?
You may have a point there.
[satire]Hurrah! for all the new subscribers that are only here because they CAN EXPLOIT THE GAME![/satire]
I don't mind that Exploiters are paying to support the content that the rest of us play, I just don't want to see and hear from you any more. It seems that the DEVs aren't doing anything active about this so I am.
Easy enough. Ignore them in the forums. Ignore them in the game. One star their accounts using the Notes system. Go into Options and set your options to "show stars". Don't game with anyone with one star (as they are part of the problem).
Easily done.
Farmers are empty shells.
I'm glad to game with a bunch of cool people that enjoy this game because they are playing supers. You all make this game great.
See you in the City.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, they arent empty shells. They simply enjoy the gameplay mechanics and seeing how efficiently they can use those mechanics.
Its perfectly valid as aplaystyle just as much as any other. Stop being so goddamned "with us or against us" mentality about it .
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
[ QUOTE ]
The devs have yet to fix their boneheaded decision to have nearly every mission in an arc be in a different zone and each of those zones be located somewhere other than where the contact is. You can't really run arcs efficiently like that. It creates alot of stopping and going.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's an old school way of prolonging game longevity aka "spread missions out and put "wandering monsters" in between to slow them down even further".
It really makes no sense even from the game stand point for the NPC's to send out from one zone to another in general. It does expose you do different areas and back-in-the-day it was rather risky to make some of these runs into unknown territory where the enemies were above your level.
From that sense of "fear" of enemies and the feeling of "triumph" once those same enemies can be defeated, I can understand it, but it does mean that those arc can be team killers - especially when a "talk to" in another zone comes along.
The Hollows, Faultline, Ouroborus, the Police missions, Cimeorea, and even the MA/AE are a step towards stopping all that running around.
I think the MA/AE goes astray with the idea by allowing all levels to access missions in all zones. I've proposed elsewhere to employ a reverse-level-restriction on the AE buildings. That is to say. You can't use a AE building to run missions regardless if you are exemplared down or not unless you are in a zone that is your level or higher. This pushes higher level characters that want to use the MA/AE to higher level zones.
I think it would greatly improve the game, while still not forcing players to run around all over the place once they are in a level appropriate zone - that's what is going on in all the other examples (aka Hollows, Faultline, Ouroborus, the Police missions, and Cimeorea).
I agree that it may be time to address the fact that the older contacts are still working based on an outdated mission system (aka running around the world to get to you next mission instead of the area where you contact is located).
I'd add that any contact that has a mission send you to another zone to start a new contact while they still have content to offer should have two mission options at that junction - a) go talk to such and such (example Wilcot) and b) go do this for me (a mission or a hunt).
Might as well add the need to fix hunts the arc hunts that aren't even do able any more because of the changes to enemy placement or complete removal from zones where they previously existed.
[ QUOTE ]
Same with a pug. Not my fault you want to force people out of the AE so you might have a slightly better chance of not having to take the initiative and make your own damned team.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've no problems finding teams. It's fairly easy to make them for anything really. Can you go back and quote me where I said anything about not being able to find a team?
If this is what you think is my reasoning behind my posts here, you're entirely mistaken.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."