[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its this double standard that bugs me. if players in supergroups can do it easily, then solo players should have an easy method also.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a double standard at all. The practice is 'frowned upon' by the devs so there are no systems to facilitate it. Solo players can't start task forces, either. This is not a first person shooter. This game is built around cooperation and teaming. Most of it CAN be soloed, but it's not designed as a solo game so the soloist has some extra hoops to jump through and some things are difficult or even impossible.
[/ QUOTE ]
it is a double standard. if the devs "frown" upon it and dont want us to transfer inf between characters, then no one should be able to do it.
there should be things in place to prevent everyone from being able to transfer inf easily regardless if your in a supergroup or not.
right now the limitations they have in place only negatively affect solo players or people that are not in a supergroup.
its like the devs saying "nope we do not like players transferring inf between their characters, we do not want that happening....but....if you have friends or supergroup members to help you do it....go right ahead and transfer all you want!! but be warned we will frown at you doing this!
and hey, if your willing to pay us another 15bucks a month and get another account to do it....even better!! "_
[/ QUOTE ]
I would be careful about characterizing the "no transferring inf. to another toon on your account" rule as something the Dev's "frown upon but allow."
Very often, when reading the boards, I see a lot of easy to use catch phrases get tossed around by the players to describe certain rules of the game that sound right but may not express exactly why the Dev's do something as accurately as the Dev's would be able to.
In other words, its easy to take what the players describe as the Dev's "allowing but frown upon" as being some sort of hypocritical stance by the Dev's, when in reality the actual reasoning behind WHY they have the rule is lost in translation.
And further, with WW's and the Black Market, and AE farms, there's hardly any reason to cry about this issue.
Personal example from last night on Freedom:
I transferred 60+ million I earned in less than 2 weeks of playing (avg. less than 2 hours a day) one toon to another using WW's, which gave my newly minted 50 PB a total of over $100 million Infl. (also earned during the same time).
I then went nuts and had my first costume contest (mostly for my son, who is 6, to judge) and had a great time with my kid deciding who won, who was second, etc.
After the contest, a toon said, "Hey, can you help out a returning player who has lost everything?"
My response was simple:
"Yes, you can earn millions easily doing AE missions."
If you can't earn millions and millions per toon just farting around doing AE missions, and can't figure out the mechanics of a market trade (I can help, just ask), come see me on Freedom.
PM me for a toon handle to find, and a location to meet, and I'll give you a few dozen million Infl.
The stuff is just dripping from the sky lately.
[ QUOTE ]
I cannot help but reflect that there are a number of things two or more people can do acting in concert that one alone cannot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Much more classy than the answer I was forming... well done, sir.
For the OP, here are two or three guides so that you don't need to sugar-daddy your new guys.
here is how to do it if you don't want to "play the market" for whatever reason (you will lose 10%.) I have personally used the influence transfer system described for up to 800 million inf at a time with no losses.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is the only situation I find myself in where I wish I could pass down inf from a higher level toon. I've had a few VERY lucky drops while playing in the 10-15 range - recipies that are selling for 10-20 million - but I've been burned by not having sufficient inf to set a decent asking price. I've "lost" 10-million inf recipies by having them sell for "only" 1-million.
Not to say 1-million inf isn't a lot of money for a level 11 toon, but it's not 10-million.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I do in that situation is hold onto the 10 million inf item and post other smaller/cheaper item to raise the post money. If I'm lucky enough to have a few items I'll find the lowest "big ticket" item and sell it low but still high enough for the "posting" price.
Another good thing is the AE. <who'd've thunk?> A few missions will net enough tickets for a nice rare tech salvage or even uncommon salvage. Sell one at ridiculously low price for your "post money".
...just sayin
[/ QUOTE ]
If you fear tickets, or going out and hitting things, or whatever, you can make about a million inf an hour buying unpopular set recipes (level 36-46 or so; snipes, confuses, slows, sleeps, what have you; anything with no bids and a couple dozen for sale) for very cheap and selling them to a vendor for 100 inf/level, or 200 inf/level if they're orange.
It's boring as hell, but if you need a little money in a hurry you can get it that way.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its this double standard that bugs me. if players in supergroups can do it easily, then solo players should have an easy method also.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a double standard at all. The practice is 'frowned upon' by the devs so there are no systems to facilitate it. Solo players can't start task forces, either. This is not a first person shooter. This game is built around cooperation and teaming. Most of it CAN be soloed, but it's not designed as a solo game so the soloist has some extra hoops to jump through and some things are difficult or even impossible.
[/ QUOTE ]
it is a double standard. if the devs "frown" upon it and dont want us to transfer inf between characters, then no one should be able to do it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong. The devs "frown upon it", but that doesn't mean they're outright against it. It just means they're not going to actively support it, but if someone finds a way as a side-effect of another feature ( which is the case here ), they're not going to go out of their way to stop it.
[/ QUOTE ]
its still a double standard. here is the definition of double standard -
[/ QUOTE ]
Only with ridiculous warping of the term to fit your argument.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
[ QUOTE ]
Only with ridiculous warping of the term to fit your argument.
[/ QUOTE ]
i actually only added a couple things....i didnt change or alter the meanings of the statements at all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only with ridiculous warping of the term to fit your argument.
[/ QUOTE ]
i actually only added a couple things....i didnt change or alter the meanings of the statements at all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard
[/ QUOTE ]
While on many things its accurate enough, but Wikipedia isn't the greatest source to cite for the definition of things since it is open to outside editing and manipulation and bias.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only with ridiculous warping of the term to fit your argument.
[/ QUOTE ]
i actually only added a couple things....i didnt change or alter the meanings of the statements at all
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't debate the definition you posted. Your application of the term, however, was warped. The functionality that allows SG members to use the bins to transfer items between alts was not what it was designed for. "Double Standard" implies intent...
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its this double standard that bugs me. if players in supergroups can do it easily, then solo players should have an easy method also.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a double standard at all. The practice is 'frowned upon' by the devs so there are no systems to facilitate it. Solo players can't start task forces, either. This is not a first person shooter. This game is built around cooperation and teaming. Most of it CAN be soloed, but it's not designed as a solo game so the soloist has some extra hoops to jump through and some things are difficult or even impossible.
[/ QUOTE ]
it is a double standard. if the devs "frown" upon it and dont want us to transfer inf between characters, then no one should be able to do it.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's NOT a double standard. The devs don't like it so they're not going to make it easy. However, multiple players working in conjunction can easily get around it. Just like multiple players working together can get a big base in X amount of time and a soloer can't. The functionality can't be removed without seriously crippling game play for most of the playerbase so that's not going to happen.
The game is designed around teams, groups and communities. It's fine that you choose to solo but you also choose to forego the advantages of being part of a group.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
[ QUOTE ]
its still a double standard. here is the definition of double standard -
A double standard is an instance in which certain applications are perceived as acceptable to be used by one group of people, but are (unjustifiably) considered unacceptabletaboowhen used by another group. A double standard, thus, can be described as a sort of biased, morally unfair suspension (toward a certain group, such as solo players) of the principle that all are equal in their freedoms ( to transfer inf between characters )
[/ QUOTE ]
Total B.S.
You are not discriminated against in any way. You have exactly the same options available to you as everyone else in the game (who is not on a trial account).
IN YOUR OWN WORDS: "But i dont play this game to make online friends, and supergroups dont fit my playstyle. "
You *CHOOSE* to play in a certain manner and avoid making friends and joining groups. Suck it up and accept the consequences of your own choices. You're hindered in transferring influence because of YOUR decisions, not the Devs'.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its still a double standard. here is the definition of double standard -
A double standard is an instance in which certain applications are perceived as acceptable to be used by one group of people, but are (unjustifiably) considered unacceptabletaboowhen used by another group. A double standard, thus, can be described as a sort of biased, morally unfair suspension (toward a certain group, such as solo players) of the principle that all are equal in their freedoms ( to transfer inf between characters )
[/ QUOTE ]
Total B.S.
You are not discriminated against in any way. You have exactly the same options available to you as everyone else in the game (who is not on a trial account).
IN YOUR OWN WORDS: "But i dont play this game to make online friends, and supergroups dont fit my playstyle. "
You *CHOOSE* to play in a certain manner and avoid making friends and joining groups. Suck it up and accept the consequences of your own choices. You're hindered in transferring influence because of YOUR decisions, not the Devs'.
[/ QUOTE ]
And even then, you're not that hindered. You can still use the market to transfer inf to any alt you want. You just have to know how to be careful when using that method.
Add me to the list of people who regularly impose on strangers to help me transfer inf and have never been burned.
I just camp Atlas and ask lowbie toons - especially those making purchases at the Training Enhancement stores - if they'd like to make a little startup cash.
50k to a lowbie is a really nice sweat-saver, especially when all you have to do is hang around Atlas for 5 mins and go thru the Trade process twice.
I've never been turned down, never been burned, and the lowbies end up thanking me sincerely.
If I'm feeling generous (which I most often am), I'll actually give them 5.5m, and Tell them to give me just 5m back, and keep 500k for themselves.
I do the generous thing primarily with lowbies with No or Very Few Vet badges, mostly they're just bonkers with gratitude.
[ QUOTE ]
Total B.S.
You are not discriminated against in any way. You have exactly the same options available to you as everyone else in the game (who is not on a trial account).
IN YOUR OWN WORDS: "But i dont play this game to make online friends, and supergroups dont fit my playstyle. "
You *CHOOSE* to play in a certain manner and avoid making friends and joining groups. Suck it up and accept the consequences of your own choices. You're hindered in transferring influence because of YOUR decisions, not the Devs'.
[/ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
such as the luxury of being able to transfer inf between your characters with complete and total ease and not having to rely on strangers or use risky things like the market place. i totally disagree that it should be any harder for solo players to transfer inf.
I pay the same $15 a month as everyone else does and if I choose not to join a supergroup, I still should have the same luxury of being able to transfer infl between my characters just as easy as they do.
ill agree that there are certain things solo players should not be able to do and need groups for, im aware that this is an MMO. I accept that i dont have access to base teleporters or medic bays, or solo AV's thats fine. But saying you need to group to transfer infl between your characters is just dumb.
transferring inf between your characters is not a monumental task that you should need to group for lol.
the ability to transfer inf between your characters should be easy and simple for everyone, like a mail system.
the devs may not support it, but inf transfers happen every day and its very easy for some to do, but harder and or risky for others.
[ QUOTE ]
Add me to the list of people who regularly impose on strangers to help me transfer inf and have never been burned.
I just camp Atlas and ask lowbie toons - especially those making purchases at the Training Enhancement stores - if they'd like to make a little startup cash.
50k to a lowbie is a really nice sweat-saver, especially when all you have to do is hang around Atlas for 5 mins and go thru the Trade process twice.
I've never been turned down, never been burned, and the lowbies end up thanking me sincerely.
If I'm feeling generous (which I most often am), I'll actually give them 5.5m, and Tell them to give me just 5m back, and keep 500k for themselves.
I do the generous thing primarily with lowbies with No or Very Few Vet badges, mostly they're just bonkers with gratitude.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've replied to dozens of requests in broadcasts redside and blueside to transfer inf and commonly holloween salavge; more often the tip is a million . I'd probably refuse 50k - probably already made that much with inspirations from the tutorial if on a lowbie 
If all they are transferring is less than 1 million plus the halloween stuff, I also refuse the tip. I've been surprised how many are just tranfsering little amounts like that.
Then again, I feel inf rains like water, and despite being easily able to transfer funds between my and my daughter's account, its less work just to collect it normally.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Sorry, but Ironblade's right. If you choose not to be in a group/SG, then just accept the consequences. You're acting like you're unable to transfer inf because you're not part of a group. That's just not so.
First, you have the option of using another player to help transfer. Sure, that has risks and is best done in a group setting where you have some trust/knowledge of the person, but plenty of people do it with strangers and do fine if they employ a little common sense.
Second, if you prefer not to go that route, then do a little learning and make use of the Market. You'll lose a percentage to the Market fees but it's perfectly safe and effective - again, if you use a little common sense.
So no, there's no double standard and you're not being excluded or discriminated against because you're a soloist. Due to my work hours I solo all the time despite belonging to a good group, so I mostly use the Market for transfers rather than other people. It's not that hard to do and it's not at all risky unless you have no idea what you are doing.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
[ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
such as the luxury of being able to transfer inf between your characters with complete and total ease and not having to rely on strangers or use risky things like the market place. i totally disagree that it should be any harder for solo players to transfer inf.
[/ QUOTE ]
Look, have you TRIED the market system? It is not that hard, and generally as risky as chewing gum while walking. Sure, if you do not pay attention, you might trip and choke, but for the most part it is safe and easy!
C'mon, walk and chew gum. It isn't that risky!
Old Gray Soldier-Level 50 MA/SR Scrapper-Virtue
Hunter Omega Prime-Level 50 WS
Dead Lord-Level 50 Necro/FF MM-Liberty
Grand Glory-Level 39 Arachnos Bane-Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Total B.S.
You are not discriminated against in any way. You have exactly the same options available to you as everyone else in the game (who is not on a trial account).
IN YOUR OWN WORDS: "But i dont play this game to make online friends, and supergroups dont fit my playstyle. "
You *CHOOSE* to play in a certain manner and avoid making friends and joining groups. Suck it up and accept the consequences of your own choices. You're hindered in transferring influence because of YOUR decisions, not the Devs'.
[/ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
[/ QUOTE ]
One thing here: You're confusing "solo player" with "antisocial player". Joining an SG doesn't mean you can't solo anymore...
The other thing is the fact that this is a game designed around being a multiplayer game. Yes, things are going to be less convenient for those who choose to avoid as many forms of social interaction as they can....
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
[ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
[/ QUOTE ]
Solo players are not discriminated against - they get the exact same abilities to do things in-game (including influence transfer) that every other player, solo or group, gets.
[ QUOTE ]
such as the luxury of being able to transfer inf between your characters with complete and total ease and not having to rely on strangers or use risky things like the market place. i totally disagree that it should be any harder for solo players to transfer inf.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it's not. It's just not any EASIER for solo players to do so.
[ QUOTE ]
I accept that i dont have access to base teleporters or medic bays, or solo AV's thats fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do have access to that stuff and (depending on character build) the ability to do that last bit.
And to invite alts, just get someone to help you invite while logging in, then say "Thank you" and kick them when you are done inviting alts in - people do it all the time.
[ QUOTE ]
the ability to transfer inf between your characters should be easy and simple for everyone, like a mail system.
[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, we already have a mail system
Second of all, wanting a WoW-mail system is totally different than saying you as a solo player are being picked on, which is what I am getting from this. And the current staff's philosophy is that they do not want people to be able to WoW-mail themselves.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is really preposterous. I play something like 90% or more of my time solo, and this is about the only MMO I am familiar with (I don't play lots of them, so could be wrong here) where solo play from 1 to top-level is even possible, much less made as accessible as it is.
That the developers have not provided canned social systems to make up for the ones we do not make, you know, socially, is hardly discrimination against solo players.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
If I do not have any friends online at the moment... I look at people's vet rewards and ask if they will help me out. If they are on a lower level toon I will usually say "Hey can you help me transfer x amount of inf.. I'll give you x amount for your time." I have NEVER had anyone say no or take my $ and run.
There is NO double standard or discrimination against solo players; the game is only limited by your choices. If you choose not to have friends, sg mates, etc... that is something you as a solo player have chosen.
[ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I haven't seen anyone demonstrating a bad attitude toward soloers. However, I have noticed that people don't have a lot of sympathy for people with a sense of entitlement and the attitude that their $15 per month puts them in a position to dictate to the devs.
Choose to solo or not. But, after you've made your decision, don't come here and whine about the SELF-IMPOSED inconveniences you have to put up with.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is really preposterous. I play something like 90% or more of my time solo, and this is about the only MMO I am familiar with (I don't play lots of them, so could be wrong here) where solo play from 1 to top-level is even possible, much less made as accessible as it is.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's actually possible in most modern MMOs these days. WoW and EQ2 included.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Ah - I am just behind the times, as usual.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this just all goes back to the continuing argument and bad attitude towards solo players that they do not deserve to have the same conveniences that others get.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I haven't seen anyone demonstrating a bad attitude toward soloers. However, I have noticed that people don't have a lot of sympathy for people with a sense of entitlement and the attitude that their $15 per month puts them in a position to dictate to the devs.
Choose to solo or not. But, after you've made your decision, don't come here and whine about the SELF-IMPOSED inconveniences you have to put up with.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the "inconveniences" are hardly worth the tears of self-righteous outrage.
My 6 year old smashed in his two front teeth doing this wickedly awesome flying spinning kick, landed right down on his chompers and I had to manually yank them out.
Took 8 tries.
I'm proud to say he cried far less than I've read on here about such a non-issue.
Though I still have the heebie jeebies over the whole thing.
alright its obvious i have a different viewpoint. I completely disagree that solo players should be forced to used the market place(which has been clearly stated that using the market place to transfer inf is an abuse) or find a second player when they want to transfer infl. Transferring inf should not require the help of another player.
then lets instead talk about the next double standard of transferring inf.
players with second accounts.
players who decide to pay twice the subscription fees per month get the luxury of being able to transfer infl whenever they want with no market fees and no inconveniences.
players with second accounts easily bypass any restrictions the devs have put in place for trading inf.
while players with single accounts have to deal with the devs restrictions or go around the system using the market place or supergroup bins.
why should people with second accounts get the privilege of trading inf but not players with one account?
if the fact they are paying more money is the only reason then thats sad. paying more money shouldnt allow you to bypass infl transferring restrictions.
if some players get to transfer infl easily, like those with second accounts, then all should be able to. the devs should give us a mail system to transfer infl. so we can all enjoy this luxury.
[ QUOTE ]
)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
its this double standard that bugs me. if players in supergroups can do it easily, then solo players should have an easy method also.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a double standard at all. The practice is 'frowned upon' by the devs so there are no systems to facilitate it. Solo players can't start task forces, either. This is not a first person shooter. This game is built around cooperation and teaming. Most of it CAN be soloed, but it's not designed as a solo game so the soloist has some extra hoops to jump through and some things are difficult or even impossible.
[/ QUOTE ]
it is a double standard. if the devs "frown" upon it and dont want us to transfer inf between characters, then no one should be able to do it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong. The devs "frown upon it", but that doesn't mean they're outright against it. It just means they're not going to actively support it, but if someone finds a way as a side-effect of another feature ( which is the case here ), they're not going to go out of their way to stop it.
[/ QUOTE ]
its still a double standard. here is the definition of double standard -
A double standard is an instance in which certain applications are perceived as acceptable to be used by one group of people, but are (unjustifiably) considered unacceptabletaboowhen used by another group. A double standard, thus, can be described as a sort of biased, morally unfair suspension (toward a certain group, such as solo players) of the principle that all are equal in their freedoms ( to transfer inf between characters
ill agree the devs arnt totally against transferring inf between characters, but they do try to make it difficult to deter it from happening. and there are players that completely go past those difficulties and have no problems transferring inf, while other players have to deal with those difficulties. thats what think is wrong. it shouldnt be hard for some to transfer inf, but very easy for others.