So I've been reading this thread for the past few days and instead of joining in on what could be done I decided to do something.I hopped on my lvl 30 scrapper today and searched for people in atlas that had no vet badges and no exploration badges outside of atlas. The first thing I asked them was if they had ever left the zone and if they hadn't asked them if they wanted to do non-AE missions. I got a full team of AE babies within ten minutes. We went off to Talos to do as many missions as we could. They all had to follow me to the trains and through Steel, but asked questions when something new popped up they didn't know about. If you have patience then I suggest you do this as well. It will help to get them away from the AE buildings at least for a little while. I know it's not a permanent fix but every bit helps to get them to notice the rest of the game.
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Agreed. But as an aside, i don't think I've ever taken an hour to gather a tf at 50. Ever.
And there are some minor ways of knowing if the person is an AE baby.
For instance if I put out a call for an ITF, and someone asks "what's an ITF?" or what's "the Midnighter's Club" in VU2009 for instance, I sure as HELL am NOT going to invite someone like that on my ITF.
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That doesn't automatically mean it's an AE baby. A player who has been away from the game a long time wouldn't know these things right away, either.
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Erm, even I know what an ITF is. Find a old newbie older/recently returned than me, myself, or I. Found it rather fast, exploring the "new" regions. Bemoaning that I only have five costume slots, and thinking about which one I want to let lose, once I get on an ITF and get the extra costume options.
(then again, I've been 'back' right at two months. Next up on the list to explore: Stringa, Croatia.)
Us "new" old guys/gals, crusty as we may be, I'll bet did the same thing when we logged into FF: "just WHAT are those buildings over there? hrm..... explore time."
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YOU found it quick. That doesn't mean that every returning player would do the same. Or even most.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Which is a flawed argument if that's your primary objection.
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Flawed how exactly? Opening up the can of worms to alter the game to make some players play the game the way others want IS a slippery slope.
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Not at all. They can either learn to be careful navigating higher level zones or spend an hour leveling up before going there. A restriction would be something making it -impossible- to access it before the requirements are met.
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For very new players, what you describe here IS more restrictive than the ease at which the AE can be accessed now.
While I can agree that that having to navigate an area like we used to have to in the Hollows is far from an impossible task, both of theses points are clearly semantic in nature and very subjective.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Which is a flawed argument if that's your primary objection.
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Flawed how exactly? Opening up the can of worms to alter the game to make some players play the game the way others want IS a slippery slope.
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...ah, you're still basing it on misconstruing what others have said in spite of being corrected numerous times. Gotcha. Goodbye, troll. *click*
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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So I've been reading this thread for the past few days and instead of joining in on what could be done I decided to do something.I hopped on my lvl 30 scrapper today and searched for people in atlas that had no vet badges and no exploration badges outside of atlas. The first thing I asked them was if they had ever left the zone and if they hadn't asked them if they wanted to do non-AE missions. I got a full team of AE babies within ten minutes. We went off to Talos to do as many missions as we could. They all had to follow me to the trains and through Steel, but asked questions when something new popped up they didn't know about. If you have patience then I suggest you do this as well. It will help to get them away from the AE buildings at least for a little while. I know it's not a permanent fix but every bit helps to get them to notice the rest of the game.
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Five years later, we finally stumble upon the reason for Group Fly.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly. I just don't like the sound of that. Especially with this being the first mmo for many players. I can tell you I would have gotten frustrated back in the day with something like that.
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Put it across the street from the King's Row train station. If you're removing the building from one zone, why not move it in another to eliminate the risk?
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Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly. I just don't like the sound of that. Especially with this being the first mmo for many players. I can tell you I would have gotten frustrated back in the day with something like that.
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Put it across the street from the King's Row train station. If you're removing the building from one zone, why not move it in another to eliminate the risk?
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People need to read the thread.
Not going to respond to any of these, as Aett and I already came to an understanding on this ages ago.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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This is the same business that wouldn't allow our dev team to put a patch (publishing freeze) to get rid of obvious exploits which they forced them to release issue 14 with live btw, because of some arbitrary anniversary.
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I know this may start an argument I regret, but what the frack are you talking about here?
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disregard. Not necessary for this thread and shouldn't have posted.
My overall point HOWEVER, still stands. Which was that the devs WON'T be allowed to put in restrictions on something that they've been touting could be used from level 1.
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But they haven't been "touting" that. They haven't stated that there were restrictions, but that's not the same as touting that it was usable from level 1. Also, removing the AE buildings from the starting zones wouldn't be putting restrictions on it.
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Restrictions on it were not put on the retail box that is currently selling in stores.
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Nor was a statement that there would be no restrictions. However, there -is- a disclaimer that content changes.
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If the goal is to get folks to experience other parts of the game then incentives to do that should be implemented. In addition AE missions should be allowed to spawn in level appropriate zones.
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But there are incentives to do that. Not the least of which being the amount of content outside of AE that exists. They're not going to hand out free levels for doing non-AE content, but that's pretty much what it would take to get some of the new players that went straight to AE to go try out the rest of the content. At least moving the AE buildings would make them move out of the starting zone and at least learn that a) there are more zones out there and b) How to travel between zones.
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Go and read up on some developer comments about the AE. The devs have been stating it IS completely viable to level from 1-50 in the AE. Read up on what has been going on before you post.
They also said it in closed beta that they want AE to be a viable 1-50 path.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly. I just don't like the sound of that. Especially with this being the first mmo for many players. I can tell you I would have gotten frustrated back in the day with something like that.
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Put it across the street from the King's Row train station. If you're removing the building from one zone, why not move it in another to eliminate the risk?
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People need to read the thread.
Not going to respond to any of these, as Aett and I already came to an understanding on this ages ago.
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Did I get drunk and pass out again? 
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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...ah, you're still basing it on misconstruing what others have said in spite of being corrected numerous times. Gotcha. Goodbye, troll. *click*
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You are a funny one.
There are many valid reasons used to promote the moving of the AE out of the starter zones as well and I think this is what you are referring to with your 'zinger'.
There are also some people that want it moved so that others will play the game the in the 'right' way.
There is no misconstruing here, there are simply multiple driving forces behind wanting changes.
It's obvious that your only goal here is 'zing' and to 'be right', so it is pointless for me to address your comments.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Put it across the street from the King's Row train station. If you're removing the building from one zone, why not move it in another to eliminate the risk?
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Because learning to navigate thru a zone without getting killed by mobs is a valuable skill.
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Because learning to navigate thru a zone without getting killed by mobs is a valuable skill.
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Because learning to navigate thru a zone without getting killed by mobs is a valuable skill.
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
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I used to do it in the Hollows all the time.
Getting to the second or third mission from Mr. David "I'm gonna git ya" Wincott usually involved navigating your way through streets packed with purple-conning mobs. I learned, real quick, how to avoid those guys.
And that was IN a level-appropriate zone, technically. At the low levels, a +4 is not going to kill you, and the AE building could be moved right across the street from the tram, eliminating the need to avoid anything anyways, since there are no spawn points there.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Because learning to navigate thru a zone without getting killed by mobs is a valuable skill.
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
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Why not? I've been doing it for 5 years whenever a new release has added new costumes and I ran dozens of my lowbie alts to the Steel Canyon or Independance Port Icon Stores to tweak their costumes rather than reroll the entire alt.
It's one of the easiest skills to learn in the game.
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Because learning to navigate thru a zone without getting killed by mobs is a valuable skill.
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
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I used to do it in the Hollows all the time.
Getting to the second or third mission from Mr. David "I'm gonna git ya" Wincott usually involved navigating your way through streets packed with purple-conning mobs. I learned, real quick, how to avoid those guys.
And that was IN a level-appropriate zone, technically. At the low levels, a +4 is not going to kill you, and the AE building could be moved right across the street from the tram, eliminating the need to avoid anything anyways, since there are no spawn points there.
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And interestingly enough I could have sworn navigation issues were one of the reasons that the devs revamped the Hallows.
I don't think frustration is a good teacher. But that's just me.
I distinctly remember many breathing a sigh of relief that they no longer had to do the hallows when kings row became even more viable due to newspaper missions.
I don't think you encourage folks to visit other zones via (potential0 frustration, which is what the whole point of moving it out of Atlas is supposed to accomplish.
But as I said before having the level contact appear at lvl 5 is a great idea. Moving it directly across the street from the tram is also good.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Because learning to navigate thru a zone without getting killed by mobs is a valuable skill.
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
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Why not? I've been doing it for 5 years whenever a new release has added new costumes and I ran dozens of my lowbie alts to the Steel Canyon or Independance Port Icon Stores to tweak their costumes rather than reroll the entire alt.
It's one of the easiest skills to learn in the game.
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It's easier to learn in Atlas park also as you level up.
I've always been of the opinion that frustration is not a good teacher.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
One year before the Winter Event was started I had won a costume contest with my level 1 Xmas Ork, so I ran him back and forth to Peregine Island and used the winnings to buy SO's and gave them away to new alts zoning in at the spawn point in front of Ms. Liberty.
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
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Someplace like the "old" Hollows maybe? Now that was a learning experience! Come on, you remember.
Whoops.... killed again, damn back to atlas.... sprint back to the far side of the map through lvl 12,13,14's and your just a lvl 6.
BC 
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
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Someplace like the "old" Hollows maybe? Now that was a learning experience! Come on, you remember.
Whoops.... killed again, damn back to atlas.... sprint back to the far side of the map through lvl 12,13,14's and your just a lvl 6.
BC
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Yeah that zone was soooo much fun back then.
Err no. Thanks to newspaper missions in kings row, after my second toon ever (ice/kin) I have never been back to the Hallows. Ever.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Sure it is, in a level appropriate zone. I would hope no one would be advocating someone learn this where mobs are +4 to them?
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Someplace like the "old" Hollows maybe? Now that was a learning experience! Come on, you remember.
Whoops.... killed again, damn back to atlas.... sprint back to the far side of the map through lvl 12,13,14's and your just a lvl 6.
BC
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Your right, but that is why it was a HAZARD zone. That was your warning before you entered that it was going to be tough.
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Thanks to newspaper missions in kings row
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I am getting the feeling that I am the only one left playing, that doesn't do sewers or scanner/paper missions.
I just do my contacts, and avoid the hollows, but not for the hollows, because it won't lead me to spelunker
BC
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Your right, but that is why it was a HAZARD zone. That was your warning before you entered that it was going to be tough.
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Your right. I know that now . But I didn't know it then. All I got was a contact. Go see contact, go do contacts missions, get new contacts.... repeat until done with Hollows contacts.
It's amazing how much we know about this game now.....
If only I had know back then, what I know now.
BC
The old Hollows built character.
Plus you learned that you can hide from mobs behind a chain link fence, don't walk over ground that's smoking, that the shortest distance isn't the same as the shortest travel time, that Recall Friend is a great power to have on a team and to never blindly leap over a wall.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Hi Guys,
just ran an AE mish.
Team chat was about how we had mixed feelings about how it had affected the game.
One member says they thought it had screwed up Ww's.
Another team member, a level 44 controller asks "Ww's?"
Everybody else replies "Wentworths".
Then silence.
Something is not right if you can get to high levels with that amount of non knowledge!
Have fun, cheers.
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This, in my mind, may not be the best example. If, after saying "Ww's" means "Wentworths", they asked what THAT was, you might have a case...
There are altogether too many abbreviations used in our game. Sometimes keeping them all straight can be difficult for even experienced players.
Recent example here in the forums "the devs nerfed MM!" ... Munitions Mastery? Master Minds? Mickey Mouse? Mental Manipulation? Mairenn MacGregor?
"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"
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Agreed. But as an aside, i don't think I've ever taken an hour to gather a tf at 50. Ever.
And there are some minor ways of knowing if the person is an AE baby.
For instance if I put out a call for an ITF, and someone asks "what's an ITF?" or what's "the Midnighter's Club" in VU2009 for instance, I sure as HELL am NOT going to invite someone like that on my ITF.
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That doesn't automatically mean it's an AE baby. A player who has been away from the game a long time wouldn't know these things right away, either.
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Erm, even I know what an ITF is. Find a old newbie older/recently returned than me, myself, or I. Found it rather fast, exploring the "new" regions. Bemoaning that I only have five costume slots, and thinking about which one I want to let lose, once I get on an ITF and get the extra costume options.
(then again, I've been 'back' right at two months. Next up on the list to explore: Stringa, Croatia.)
Us "new" old guys/gals, crusty as we may be, I'll bet did the same thing when we logged into FF: "just WHAT are those buildings over there? hrm..... explore time."
Explorer: 93%. Achiever: 40%. Socializer: 40%. Killer 33%.
Current Heroes and Villains (altitis holding at 50 currents)
To all the devs, past, present, (and may there be) future: /salute
To NCSoft: Understand that you reap what you plant, and you cannot gain what you throw away.