Moving the AE building out of Atlas Park and Galaxy City wouldn't change the requirement from doing the AE at level 1 to level 5. You could still go there at level 1 and work at it.
It would just mean that it's not right in the face of new players.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
So how about this?
If you are higher than the zone level range, you cannot enter the data stream. You get a message saying you are too high in level to use this data stream, and you should go to the AE building in [zone(s) appropriate for your level].
If you are within OR BELOW the range, no problem. I repeat, within OR BELOW the zone range. (People seem to miss that part of this suggestion. 
)
No restriction on new characters using AE in the starting zone. No restriction on leveling all the way to 50 in MArch, except they have to change zones periodically (just like with regular content). Doesn't even prevent a level 1 from teaming with a level 50, they just have to both be in a zone appropriate for the level 50.
[ QUOTE ]
Moving the AE building out of Atlas Park and Galaxy City wouldn't change the requirement from doing the AE at level 1 to level 5. You could still go there at level 1 and work at it.
It would just mean that it's not right in the face of new players.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't recommend sending a lvl 1 noob (especially from what I've been hearing about these new players we are getting) to a lvl 5 zone. For some this game is their first mmo. I can see the frustration from that scenario already.
Personally, I would make it abundantly clear that you need to level to 5 before going there. But /shrug, wouldn't be my decision to make.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
So how about this?
If you are higher than the zone level range, you cannot enter the data stream. You get a message saying you are too high in level to use this data stream, and you should go to the AE building in [zone(s) appropriate for your level].
If you are within OR BELOW the range, no problem. I repeat, within OR BELOW the zone range. (People seem to miss that part of this suggestion. )
No restriction on new characters using AE in the starting zone. No restriction on leveling all the way to 50 in MArch, except they have to change zones periodically (just like with regular content). Doesn't even prevent a level 1 from teaming with a level 50, they just have to both be in a zone appropriate for the level 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not a good idea. For lower levels to go team with higher levels they would have to go to a more dangerous zone. NOT a good idea at all.
At that point you might as well just get rid of the auto sk. Also, it's a restriction that doesn't exist anywhere else in game.
EDIT: For vets this is no issue, as I can easily manuvear my level one toons from zone to zone to get to PI easily. Folks making these suggestions need to keep in mind we are talking about lower level toons here who may not be vets.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't recommend sending a lvl 1 noob (especially from what I've been hearing about these new players we are getting) to a lvl 5 zone. For some this game is their first mmo. I can see the frustration from that scenario already.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually kind of the point. Sending a new player on their first character straight into the AE building is what we've been advocating changes for. Once they get sent to Kings Row (I like Steel and Skyway for this better, but *shrug*)
they will find the AE building and see that you can use it at level 1.
End result: They have at least played 5 levels of the normal content and have (hopefully) learned something about the basics of the game, like how to use the trains.
If they want to create a new character and go straight to the zones AE is in, there is nothing preventing them from doing so, but at least this way they know that AE is optional content, not the only content.
Edit: Prsonally I'm still of the opinion that putting AE buildings in the zones new players start the game in was a huge mistake. Unfortunately it is going to be an almost impossible mistake to fix. What happens when the buildings get taken away and the noobs that don't know how to use the trains have nothing to do?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I wouldn't recommend sending a lvl 1 noob (especially from what I've been hearing about these new players we are getting) to a lvl 5 zone. For some this game is their first mmo. I can see the frustration from that scenario already.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually kind of the point. Sending a new player on their first character straight into the AE building is what we've been advocating changes for. Once they get sent to Kings Row (I like Steel and Skyway for this better, but *shrug*)
they will find the AE building and see that you can use it at level 1.
End result: They have at least played 5 levels of the normal content and have (hopefully) learned something about the basics of the game, like how to use the trains.
If they want to create a new character and go straight to the zones AE is in, there is nothing preventing them from doing so, but at least this way they know that AE is optional content, not the only content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly. I just don't like the sound of that. Especially with this being the first mmo for many players. I can tell you I would have gotten frustrated back in the day with something like that.
If we're going this route, then you should only get the AE contact popup at lvl 5, AFTER you have done the necessary stuff (wther by sewer team or by missions) to get to level 5. Still forces you to ask "where is kings row?" in b-cast when you get to lvl 5. And still forces you to take the train to go there. But reduces the possibility of unnecessary frustration.
EDIT: The COH tutorial does not ask if you want to go to Kings Row when you complete it. It gives you the options of the level appropriate zones of Atlas and Galaxy for a reason.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
Not a good idea. For lower levels to go team with higher levels they would have to go to a more dangerous zone. NOT a good idea at all.
At that point you might as well just get rid of the auto sk. Also, it's a restriction that doesn't exist anywhere else in game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm...yes it does. To SK to a friend with a higher level mission, you usually need to leave the starting zones. Sure, maybe they get a random mission in Atlas Park or something, but usually it's in Talos or Steel Canyon or some other zone that is of higher level.
That was exactly the case the way it was before the AE was put in. The AE created that freedom.
Newer players probably don't have these friends in the game that are higher level. If they do, the friend can usually help them get to where they need to be anyways.
I don't get this as a problem. New players would only have to risk level 5-10 enemies, not level 50 enemies, if it was moved to KR.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
There is no easy cure all solution to the problem, and AE is not the big problem anyway.
Complaining that someone didnt go through the regular content for contents sake is just stupid. At least half the players out there never even read the mission information or the dialog. It's like what was said before, it's the path of least resistance.
I am more bothered by people that never learn how to play their toons. Unfortunately, there will ALWAYS be idiots that NEVER learn how to play their toons, These were around long before AE. Toons with all four travel pools. Toons who can't figure out how to slot their powers if their lives depended on it. People that play kheldians. This happens in every game, but it was never as obvious in this one until AE. If anyone has played other MMOs, they have seen it there too. I will use WoW for an example. Having a large amount of experience in that game, and with powerleveling being a bit harder, not a lot harder, but a bit, you would think that there would be very few nooblets at the level cap. Unfortunately, that is not the case. There are tons of them. In fact, it is harder to find a skilled player than it is to find an idiot that got carried through 3/4s of the content. It was so bad I actually ran across people that had gear from places they swore they had never been to, swore blind they had never raided, but had tier gear, which for those that don't know is bound to that toon the second they pick it up.
Taking away the AE will help a little bit, but the real issue is that a rather large number of players just dont care to actually learn their toons.
They should put in a second tutorial that is account based that requires you to run at a specific level on your first toon to learn about things like enhancements and slotting, or just set up the first 6 or 10 levels AS a tutorial, with the missions set around actually teaching you something. The second you zone into AP you get directed to the contact that starts the tutorial missions and have them cover more than just inspirations and running around. When you level, a toon tells you about enhancement slotting, and FORCES you to slot an enhancement.
Then move the AE building to a different part of town, and get rid of the contact for it, or at least not have the contact available til level 20, so it is a little less accessible to the brand new player, the option would still be open for vets to run there at level one. To kill the broadcast spam, just make an AE channel.
There is no easy fix for this, and the problem was around a long time before AE, but something definitely has to be done.
P.S. I dont hate kheldians, just the noobs that make up 95% of the people that play them
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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[ QUOTE ]
Not a good idea. For lower levels to go team with higher levels they would have to go to a more dangerous zone. NOT a good idea at all.
At that point you might as well just get rid of the auto sk. Also, it's a restriction that doesn't exist anywhere else in game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm...yes it does. To SK to a friend with a higher level mission, you usually need to leave the starting zones. Sure, maybe they get a random mission in Atlas Park or something, but usually it's in Talos or Steel Canyon or some other zone that is of higher level.
That was exactly the case the way it was before the AE was put in. The AE created that freedom.
Newer players probably don't have these friends in the game that are higher level. If they do, the friend can usually help them get to where they need to be anyways.
I don't get this as a problem. New players would only have to risk level 5-10 enemies, not level 50 enemies, if it was moved to KR.
[/ QUOTE ]
new level 1 players you mean?
If it's moved to KR I have no issue. Just make sure the AE contact says you need to 5 to go there, which is the level appropriate range.
But his suggestion was that if a higher level wants to team in AE with their friends the lowbies would ALWAYS have to go to the higher zone, since the higher levels can't go to KR. That's NOT how the current AE works.
If I want my friends (several of whom are in the 30s) to see a new arc I created I can go to zones in their range instead of asking them to trudge up to PI. His suggestion would kill that.
So it's not just the lower level toons I'm worried about here. It's changing one of the good aspects of AE teaming (when used appropriately!!!!).
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't recommend sending a lvl 1 noob (especially from what I've been hearing about these new players we are getting) to a lvl 5 zone. For some this game is their first mmo. I can see the frustration from that scenario already.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually kind of the point. Sending a new player on their first character straight into the AE building is what we've been advocating changes for. Once they get sent to Kings Row (I like Steel and Skyway for this better, but *shrug*)
they will find the AE building and see that you can use it at level 1.
End result: They have at least played 5 levels of the normal content and have (hopefully) learned something about the basics of the game, like how to use the trains.
If they want to create a new character and go straight to the zones AE is in, there is nothing preventing them from doing so, but at least this way they know that AE is optional content, not the only content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly. I just don't like the sound of that. Especially with this being the first mmo for many players. I can tell you I would have gotten frustrated back in the day with something like that.
If we're going this route, then you should only get the AE contact popup at lvl 5, AFTER you have done the necessary stuff (wther by sewer team or by missions) to get to level 5. Still forces you to ask "where is kings row?" in b-cast when you get to lvl 5. And still forces you to take the train to go there. But reduces the possibility of unnecessary frustration.
EDIT: The COH tutorial does not ask if you want to go to Kings Row when you complete it. It gives you the options of the level appropriate zones of Atlas and Galaxy for a reason.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, of course. The contact should NOT pop up at level 1 when you first log in. The system can be there, ready for access at level 1, but the pop-up shouldn't be there until a higher level. that has been said hand-in-hand with moving the AE out of AP.
And nobody would be forcing new players to go to KR for the AE in order to level up. If a player WANTED to, they could go there, and yes, there would be risks (gasp! you might have to learn to avoid detection by enemies!) but they would not be that severe, especially since you don't get debt at level 1.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't recommend sending a lvl 1 noob (especially from what I've been hearing about these new players we are getting) to a lvl 5 zone. For some this game is their first mmo. I can see the frustration from that scenario already.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually kind of the point. Sending a new player on their first character straight into the AE building is what we've been advocating changes for. Once they get sent to Kings Row (I like Steel and Skyway for this better, but *shrug*)
they will find the AE building and see that you can use it at level 1.
End result: They have at least played 5 levels of the normal content and have (hopefully) learned something about the basics of the game, like how to use the trains.
If they want to create a new character and go straight to the zones AE is in, there is nothing preventing them from doing so, but at least this way they know that AE is optional content, not the only content.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly. I just don't like the sound of that. Especially with this being the first mmo for many players. I can tell you I would have gotten frustrated back in the day with something like that.
If we're going this route, then you should only get the AE contact popup at lvl 5, AFTER you have done the necessary stuff (wther by sewer team or by missions) to get to level 5. Still forces you to ask "where is kings row?" in b-cast when you get to lvl 5. And still forces you to take the train to go there. But reduces the possibility of unnecessary frustration.
EDIT: The COH tutorial does not ask if you want to go to Kings Row when you complete it. It gives you the options of the level appropriate zones of Atlas and Galaxy for a reason.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, of course. The contact should NOT pop up at level 1 when you first log in. The system can be there, ready for access at level 1, but the pop-up shouldn't be there until a higher level. that has been said hand-in-hand with moving the AE out of AP.
And nobody would be forcing new players to go to KR for the AE in order to level up. If a player WANTED to, they could go there, and yes, there would be risks (gasp! you might have to learn to avoid detection by enemies!) but they would not be that severe, especially since you don't get debt at level 1.
[/ QUOTE ]
Debt is irrelevant. It has been for a while. The issue would be the frustration.
But it's a moot argument now. If there is a AE contact popup that ONLY comes at lvl 5, I have no issue with it then. If it was said earlier I might have missed where it was said.
It's a better suggestion than hard capping ability to use AE at lvl 10 or heaven forbid 50, and would cause less of an uproar in relation to the retail box. And would probably be easier then allowing authors to have spawn points in the actual game world.
EDIT: Would also have the added bonus of putting Atlas b-cast spam back to being mostly costume contests and sewer teams. Folks could just sewer team to 5 and head over to kings when they get the AE contact popup.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
QR,
I also think there needs to be some sort of post-tutorial pop-up or mission that tells folks about the various zones, their ranges, and transportation models (the tram/ cov ferries.). The tutorial doesn't provide explanations of this.
This way newbs know what the appropriate zones are for content, before they go all sewer team/bank job team.
Just an aside.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Hi Guys,
just ran an AE mish.
Team chat was about how we had mixed feelings about how it had affected the game.
One member says they thought it had screwed up Ww's.
Another team member, a level 44 controller asks "Ww's?"
Everybody else replies "Wentworths".
Then silence.
Something is not right if you can get to high levels with that amount of non knowledge!
Have fun, cheers.
So many cats - So few recipes!
Age is of no importance,
unless you are a cheese!
[ QUOTE ]
Restricting AE access in any way goes against what the devs promised AE could be used for. It was designed as an alternative to levelling using dev content so locking it in any way would be changing one of its intended purposes.
Locking it to people with a level 50 would have left it dead. There'd be nowhere near the community online than there is now. A TF/SF to access it would be the same.
Now, restricting it to level 10 and up or similar would have been a good idea but too late now. Locking the AE in any way now will cause a lot of players to quit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Most aren't saying restrict it level wise but instead move it out of the starter zones and change it so the AE contact doesn't contact you until a higher level. You could still go there at level 1 if you wanted but you would have to be able to find it first. That is a decent solution and means new players to the game get a chance to actually play before being introduced to the AE. Then if they want to spend all there time in it they at least have had an introduction to the actual game. And have had a chance to learn to play.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
[ QUOTE ]
QR,
I also think there needs to be some sort of post-tutorial pop-up or mission that tells folks about the various zones, their ranges, and transportation models (the tram/ cov ferries.). The tutorial doesn't provide explanations of this.
This way newbs know what the appropriate zones are for content, before they go all sewer team/bank job team.
Just an aside.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. Expand the current tutorial to include some of the new features and make it mandatory for new players to go thru ONCE per account. Once they have gone thru it their account is flagged and they can unlock the ability to skip it when they make more characters.
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What I will continue to fight is restricting ANYTHING including the moving of the AE buildings.
[/ QUOTE ]
Question for you: why?
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Mainly, the 'slippery slope'.
Also, depending upon where you put it, even in King's, that would also have the chance to prevent a brand new player from getting there. That, to me, is a restriction.
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Alienating them in order to get high turnover numbers may not be the best thing in the world to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
As to this, IMO, anyone getting 'alienated' over this is not someone I want to play with anyway. As many like to forget, the forum population is a fraction of the games real population anyway. Only here have I seen the hate, but then again, I do not ever log into Freedom or Virtue.
I have left bad teams for many years now. If the team is not what I want, the quite button is one click away. I use the same philosophy I use at the blackjack tables in Vegas. If someone is playing badly enough to make the rest of the table lose money, I simply pick up my chips and move to another table.
I can certainly agree that some players will always tick off other players. That's called human interaction. All you have to do is walk away. It's even easier online than in real life.
I have a friend right now that if he got on a PUG with anyone other than our group of RL friends he would get crucified. Been playing about a year, does not know jack about the game, just sits down to get on voice chat and hang out with us once in a while. Because of playing with us, he has a 50. Bad players predate AE by as long as there have been games.
As for the name-calling, just wanted to get that out preemptively, Aett_Thorn, you are not at all on that list. Discourse with you is a pleasure.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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[ QUOTE ]
QR,
I also think there needs to be some sort of post-tutorial pop-up or mission that tells folks about the various zones, their ranges, and transportation models (the tram/ cov ferries.). The tutorial doesn't provide explanations of this.
This way newbs know what the appropriate zones are for content, before they go all sewer team/bank job team.
Just an aside.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. Expand the current tutorial to include some of the new features and make it mandatory for new players to go thru ONCE per account. Once they have gone thru it their account is flagged and they can unlock the ability to skip it when they make more characters.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would see no issue with grandfathering these into the tutorial.
As a new player I would never have dreamed of skipping the tutorial anyway.
The game was pretty overwhelming back then. 
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So how about this?
If you are higher than the zone level range, you cannot enter the data stream. You get a message saying you are too high in level to use this data stream, and you should go to the AE building in [zone(s) appropriate for your level].
If you are within OR BELOW the range, no problem. I repeat, within OR BELOW the zone range. (People seem to miss that part of this suggestion. )
No restriction on new characters using AE in the starting zone. No restriction on leveling all the way to 50 in MArch, except they have to change zones periodically (just like with regular content). Doesn't even prevent a level 1 from teaming with a level 50, they just have to both be in a zone appropriate for the level 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not a good idea. For lower levels to go team with higher levels they would have to go to a more dangerous zone. NOT a good idea at all.
At that point you might as well just get rid of the auto sk. Also, it's a restriction that doesn't exist anywhere else in game.
EDIT: For vets this is no issue, as I can easily manuvear my level one toons from zone to zone to get to PI easily. Folks making these suggestions need to keep in mind we are talking about lower level toons here who may not be vets.
[/ QUOTE ]If they're a friend you're introducing to the game, you should be helping them out. Log onto a lower level character, or help them get to the AE building. Just like it was before AE...you had to help the lowbie get to the high-level zone if you wanted them to join you there.
If you don't know them, helping them get to the right AE building will help the game by giving them a better impression of players. If you don't want to deal with helping the newbie, then just kick 'em. ("LOLing" them is optional. )
[ QUOTE ]
As for the name-calling, just wanted to get that out preemptively, Aett_Thorn, you are not at all on that list. Discourse with you is a pleasure.
[/ QUOTE ]
This.
The moving the AE to KR restriction is the only one I can seriously get behind.
Xp caps, can't use it till 10 or 50 or any other nonsense, NO.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So how about this?
If you are higher than the zone level range, you cannot enter the data stream. You get a message saying you are too high in level to use this data stream, and you should go to the AE building in [zone(s) appropriate for your level].
If you are within OR BELOW the range, no problem. I repeat, within OR BELOW the zone range. (People seem to miss that part of this suggestion. )
No restriction on new characters using AE in the starting zone. No restriction on leveling all the way to 50 in MArch, except they have to change zones periodically (just like with regular content). Doesn't even prevent a level 1 from teaming with a level 50, they just have to both be in a zone appropriate for the level 50.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not a good idea. For lower levels to go team with higher levels they would have to go to a more dangerous zone. NOT a good idea at all.
At that point you might as well just get rid of the auto sk. Also, it's a restriction that doesn't exist anywhere else in game.
EDIT: For vets this is no issue, as I can easily manuvear my level one toons from zone to zone to get to PI easily. Folks making these suggestions need to keep in mind we are talking about lower level toons here who may not be vets.
[/ QUOTE ]If they're a friend you're introducing to the game, you should be helping them out. Log onto a lower level character, or help them get to the AE building. Just like it was before AE...you had to help the lowbie get to the high-level zone if you wanted them to join you there.
If you don't know them, helping them get to the right AE building will help the game by giving them a better impression of players. If you don't want to deal with helping the newbie, then just kick 'em. ("LOLing" them is optional. )
[/ QUOTE ]
See my other posts. Only thing I agree with is moving it to KR. No other restrictions are necessary. Especially not ones that restrict veteran lvl 50 players.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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This is the same business that wouldn't allow our dev team to put a patch (publishing freeze) to get rid of obvious exploits which they forced them to release issue 14 with live btw, because of some arbitrary anniversary.
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I know this may start an argument I regret, but what the frack are you talking about here?
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disregard. Not necessary for this thread and shouldn't have posted.
My overall point HOWEVER, still stands. Which was that the devs WON'T be allowed to put in restrictions on something that they've been touting could be used from level 1.
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But they haven't been "touting" that. They haven't stated that there were restrictions, but that's not the same as touting that it was usable from level 1. Also, removing the AE buildings from the starting zones wouldn't be putting restrictions on it.
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Restrictions on it were not put on the retail box that is currently selling in stores.
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Nor was a statement that there would be no restrictions. However, there -is- a disclaimer that content changes.
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If the goal is to get folks to experience other parts of the game then incentives to do that should be implemented. In addition AE missions should be allowed to spawn in level appropriate zones.
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But there are incentives to do that. Not the least of which being the amount of content outside of AE that exists. They're not going to hand out free levels for doing non-AE content, but that's pretty much what it would take to get some of the new players that went straight to AE to go try out the rest of the content. At least moving the AE buildings would make them move out of the starting zone and at least learn that a) there are more zones out there and b) How to travel between zones.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Agreed. But as an aside, i don't think I've ever taken an hour to gather a tf at 50. Ever.
And there are some minor ways of knowing if the person is an AE baby.
For instance if I put out a call for an ITF, and someone asks "what's an ITF?" or what's "the Midnighter's Club" in VU2009 for instance, I sure as HELL am NOT going to invite someone like that on my ITF.
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That doesn't automatically mean it's an AE baby. A player who has been away from the game a long time wouldn't know these things right away, either.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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I wouldn't recommend sending a lvl 1 noob (especially from what I've been hearing about these new players we are getting) to a lvl 5 zone. For some this game is their first mmo. I can see the frustration from that scenario already.
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That's actually kind of the point. Sending a new player on their first character straight into the AE building is what we've been advocating changes for. Once they get sent to Kings Row (I like Steel and Skyway for this better, but *shrug*)
they will find the AE building and see that you can use it at level 1.
End result: They have at least played 5 levels of the normal content and have (hopefully) learned something about the basics of the game, like how to use the trains.
If they want to create a new character and go straight to the zones AE is in, there is nothing preventing them from doing so, but at least this way they know that AE is optional content, not the only content.
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Again, a lvl 1 should not be sent to a higher level zone in which there is a chance to frustration of dieng repeatedly.
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But they're not "being sent there". They're being given the option of going there or doing level appropriate content to get high enough to easily get around in that zone first. It's not forcing them to do the content, but it is strongly encouraging it.
No more of a problem than sending them to a level 10 zone to change their costume...
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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What I will continue to fight is restricting ANYTHING including the moving of the AE buildings.
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Question for you: why?
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Mainly, the 'slippery slope'.
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Which is a flawed argument if that's your primary objection.
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Also, depending upon where you put it, even in King's, that would also have the chance to prevent a brand new player from getting there. That, to me, is a restriction.
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Not at all. They can either learn to be careful navigating higher level zones or spend an hour leveling up before going there. A restriction would be something making it -impossible- to access it before the requirements are met.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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There are those who are arguing to give the players more and better information.
Nothing wrong with that. I agree and said so.
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Fair enough.
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What I will continue to fight is restricting ANYTHING including the moving of the AE buildings.
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Question for you: why?
If the AE buildings were moved out of the starting zones, and the first ones that you would come across in-game were in Port Oakes and King's Row, why would that be a bad thing? Would it hinder your ability to PL your characters if you so choose at all once you ran there? Would it hinder anybody that had made the choice to use the AE only?
The Devs have also said publicly, several times now, that the AE system is not to be used for farming or PLing. If they took drastic steps to curb farming in the AE, what would you say about that?
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The only rose-colored glasses I am wearing, per the references to seeing what I want to see, is that humans have logical, rational thoughts and the capability to figure things out for themselves.
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I agree with this. However, I think that, the way the system is presented now, the logical thing to do is to use the AE right from character creation. That is not was should be happening. The AE should be a choice, to be sure, but the logical format of how players are introduced to the game should steer them towards the actual game content, don't you think?
My problem with the AE system now in regards to choice is like the case of the Model T. You could get it in any color you wanted, as long as it was black. Newer players to the game are immediately shown a black car, and there's no information out there right at the start that you can get a car in another color. Even if they wanted a red car, they're not shown how to do that. They are not forced to get a black car, they're just not told that you can get one in another color.
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I see the whole picture. I understand the fears of those players that like the game have about wanting it to prosper, I want the game to prosper.
I do not agree that the people that would normally become long term players will not do so because of the AE, even in it's current configuration, nor do I think drastic measures need to be taken. Those people will discover 'the rest' of the game regardless.
And even if a person does not ever see anything other than the inside of the AE building and Miss Lberty, even if a player plays for a shorter time than others, high turn over or not, there is nothing wrong with that. Other games do quite well with high turn over.
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Yes, other games do do quite well with high turn over. Maybe this one could as well. However, nothing frustrates older players more than needing to constantly teach newer players everything about the game that they should have learned while playing.
Not knowing about the Shadow Shard, because nothing in the game teaches you that it's even there? Sure, I can buy that a level 50 wouldn't know about it. Not knowing how to get out of Atlas Park at level 50? That's annoying. There's no reason that a level 50 character shouldn't know how to do that. Except, now there is a reason: the AE system.
So yes, a game can do okay with high turnover. But this game has done well because of a lot of veteran players who have stayed with the game for a long time. Alienating them in order to get high turnover numbers may not be the best thing in the world to do.
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Call me whatever names you like. Do your best to belittle me. You will not get me to stop pointing out the fact that different does not equal wrong.
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Who insulted you or called you names? (okay, except Tyger, but he calls pretty much everyone a name)
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The devs would have to change their stance on being able to use AE as an alternate leveing path from 1-50.
I would have no issue with them moving it to Kings Row, but then it's no longer from 1-50, it's from 5-50. Not a MAJOR change though.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
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