[ QUOTE ]
While its kind of entertaining that some "professor" was playing CoH, the whole project of his was kind of dumb. Doesn't this apply to ALL of the internet?
Lets look at xbox live. Play some game (halo, call of duty, w/e) kill your own team, and some spaz tells you to go kill yourself, that you are gay, etc.
When people can't be seen IRL, they say what they want. No biggie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why ya gotta talk 'bout Spazz like that when he's a leavin??? huh??
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This guy may be a PhD but he is clearly a few cards short of a full deck.
Teleporting people into NPC's to die and get debt makes people angry at you?
OH MY GAWD, WHO KNEW?
iltat got quoted on Slashdot.
Hi Marut. Hope you're doing well.
I actually took the time to read his paper on the "sad" story of Twixt. What a load of self-serving drivel cloaked in pseudo-academic hogwash! It does help explain his motives somewhat- acting like an [censored]head was his "breaching behavior" to test the boundaries of socially constructed rules of behavior, versus what the inherent rules of the game would allow him to get away with.
The only surprising thing about the consistent reaction he received was that he was consistently surprised by it, as if he actually didn't understand or grasp that in a social game, social rules of behavior still apply. It was almost as if he expected the other human players to react as if they were NPCs; dictated and directed by the hard-coded "rules" of the game. He expressed shock and dismay that he was ostracized by both villain and hero players because of his style of play that was "within the rules and goals of the game" but did not cohere with the unwritten social rules.
Sad, sad, sad. I pity his students.
"Don't unravel them-- your ears were meant to be that way."
-Steve Aylett
His constant surprise at normal human behavior, and his completel inability to figure out why people would be angry with him really does make him seem like a sociopath.
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[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there's any validity in his "it's legal" argument. Those drones are there for player protection. What he's doing is one step away from an exploit as far as i'm concerned. Not to mention, being a jerk just isn't cool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even with all the positive descriptions from the author of the article, what the dear professor did was isolate and underline the fact that any sociopath, even a functioning one, tends to be abhorred by the community around them. And that's pretty much what he was/is, at least as Twixt. What's the difference between an armed robber shooting a housewife and a police officer who's had to kill in the line of duty? At the instant of the taboo action, one is justified by social acceptance - the other is in every violation of it. Both take a life, both violate the social abhorrance of intentional murder. One, however, does so for the protection of the community around them, while the other does so for personal gain. One is approved of as a guardian of his family, friends, and neighbors; the other is reviled for being a criminal.
Two families just lost someone though. And there's plenty of evidence that shows that those families often don't care if one of those people was following the rules or not - it still hurts. Point here is that following the rules, like Professor Myers, and claiming to not understand why people hated his actions despite "not doing anything wrong" is a failure on his part to understand humanity as a whole. The response to Twixt is nothing to despair over - I'd actually say it indicates something to be hopeful about, that even in a digital medium, we as people still insist on custom and "the Golden Rule" even when it's not enforced by authorities. That's a good sign, I'd say. I'd instead despair for his kids growing experience... I don't know that Dad's going to prepare them so well for team sports, to say the least... Anyway, just my $.02
Oh, and hi again
-M
[/ QUOTE ]wow..for once i don't mind seeing my argument torn apart.
Moreover, his study lacks a crucial element: a control. As far as I can tell, his study did not include a character who applied himself equally to PvP play, but who made no conspicuous effort to violate the community's norms. Without that, he ain't learning anything.
Regular PvP is too much full of trash talk and juvie attitudes to be particularly attractive to me anyways; then again, my experience here is mostly confined to the arena, or PvP in other games, and I tend not to seek it out diligently. But more importantly, without knowing how much grief and badmouthing you can generate by participating vigorously in regular PvP, discovering that you can generate a lot by participating in PvP griefing is a factoid devoid of meaning. There's no yardstick for comparison. I'd give this research project an F.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
That guy sounded like a jerk -_-
Ping, I'm curious as to what your letter says. o_o
I think I'll craft a rebuttal of his paper. For a scientist to publish and then publicize a defense of griefing... yeah. That needs a proper answer.
Anyone know what the best, science-based approach to disproving a science paper (mass media or sociology) would be? Are there standards to apply or a template to use?
Would anyone like to collaborate?
What a waste of effort this man's career has been. To state the obvious is nothing that is PhD-worthy. What is more foolish is that he has revealed his identity to those he had griefed. <shakes head>
To start, I was told of this story by a friend in New Orleans. Apparently, this friend told me, Twixt was this amazing pariah of a player that was outcast by all and loved by none. He was threatened, ridiculed, debased, and hated as none before in this game.
Now, with that said, there needs to be some grave cleanups concerning his research. First and foremost, this is not an experiment. There are no variables. There is no control. There is no causality. Nothing in this man's research even remotely fits the model for a psychological, sociological, anthropological, or scientific mode of experimentation.
This is a case study. It has no applied value, no heuristic value, nor theoretical value. It is, for all intents and purposes, an observational case study. However, it is not natural observation. The researcher heavily involved himself in the carrying out of his case study to such an amount that its value is lost. He became, as he details, emotionally invested in his research. That is the first, and cardinal, rule of research -- don't get involved.
With that said, we now have a case study with little actual merit. So let us look at the actual methodology: One man entered the game and, upon doing so, acted in a way only considering the official Terms of Service rules. He did not, however, gain the informed consent of any participants nor did he offer any therapeutic intervention--two massive ethical lapses. He engaged, however, in a socially sanctioned way of behaving that broke the conventions of the culture, even if just online in a game. This culture dictated specific rules of play style that he was informed of dually. He immediately discarded with these social norms and cultural values. Again, while this may be a video game it does have its own social rules.
He, in essence, broke the social rules. As we all know through grade school, what happens if you break the rules? You get punished. Well, if Anthropology has taught me anything about culture...it is that those who break the cultural value system will be socially punished. Social control theory dictates that those that break our norms and values are sanctioned either formally or informally.
Informal sanctions range from ridicule, sarcasm, criticism, and disapproval all the way to exile, threats, gossiping, and complete exclusion. When he engaged in the behavior others corrected, he was given leeway. Our culture said "He doesn't know, like a child, so he will be taught". He broke the mores again. He was informally sanctioned through ridicule, criticism, and disapproval. He continued to break the cultural values and social norms...he was met with gossip, exclusion, and threats. That is the nature of social control of humans. As a PhD in Media, he should have at least taken ONE course in either Anthropology or Sociology. How this little nugget escaped him is beyond me.
So in recapping:
He engaged in a case study that be involved himself in heavily, gathered no informed consent, gave no exiting therapy, broke the norms and values of the culture and then pretended to be shocked, AND is now pretending to be the victim of a lurid, insulting gaming underworld.
Dr. Myers, I am only a Psychology undergrad and I know enough about research to know that your case study and your published book are absolute hogwash with no applicable value beyond a retelling of the events that you orchestrated. Any self-respecting researcher would realize the moral, ethical, and professional errors in your case study that should be laughed out of any actual peer-reviewed journal. I cannot help but postulate that this very fact is why you've published this as a book and not in a journal.
Mrow... Mysidia is so hawt right now.
I hope you posted that in the comments on the article.
I'm stunned and amazed that a person acting like a complete dbag became despised, that the intartubes are filled with people who make threats of physical violence from behind their monitors, and that a tenured academic would get paid for conducting a methodologically-dubious "study."
Stunned and amazed, I tell you...
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
back to studying the effects of cows releasing methane i suppose...
What's really fun about this is Myers' condemnation of players. He actually judges players who flaunt conventional rules of good social behavior. He is in essence saying, "Look, I refused to respect social norms and others went even further outside of social norms then I did; what sad people they are."
It feels like there are two good questions to explore that Twixt missed--
1) Why do people feel responsible for social norms online
and
2) Why do people NOT feel responsible for social norms online
I sense a book, a really substantial book, about both sides: cultures that form their own rules online, and cultures for people that forego any sense of responsibility online... and how these two groups sometimes become each other.
[ QUOTE ]
To start, I was told of this story by a friend in New Orleans. Apparently, this friend told me, Twixt was this amazing pariah of a player that was outcast by all and loved by none. He was threatened, ridiculed, debased, and hated as none before in this game.
Now, with that said, there needs to be some grave cleanups concerning his research. First and foremost, this is not an experiment. There are no variables. There is no control. There is no causality. Nothing in this man's research even remotely fits the model for a psychological, sociological, anthropological, or scientific mode of experimentation.
This is a case study. It has no applied value, no heuristic value, nor theoretical value. It is, for all intents and purposes, an observational case study. However, it is not natural observation. The researcher heavily involved himself in the carrying out of his case study to such an amount that its value is lost. He became, as he details, emotionally invested in his research. That is the first, and cardinal, rule of research -- don't get involved.
With that said, we now have a case study with little actual merit. So let us look at the actual methodology: One man entered the game and, upon doing so, acted in a way only considering the official Terms of Service rules. He did not, however, gain the informed consent of any participants nor did he offer any therapeutic intervention--two massive ethical lapses. He engaged, however, in a socially sanctioned way of behaving that broke the conventions of the culture, even if just online in a game. This culture dictated specific rules of play style that he was informed of dually. He immediately discarded with these social norms and cultural values. Again, while this may be a video game it does have its own social rules.
He, in essence, broke the social rules. As we all know through grade school, what happens if you break the rules? You get punished. Well, if Anthropology has taught me anything about culture...it is that those who break the cultural value system will be socially punished. Social control theory dictates that those that break our norms and values are sanctioned either formally or informally.
Informal sanctions range from ridicule, sarcasm, criticism, and disapproval all the way to exile, threats, gossiping, and complete exclusion. When he engaged in the behavior others corrected, he was given leeway. Our culture said "He doesn't know, like a child, so he will be taught". He broke the mores again. He was informally sanctioned through ridicule, criticism, and disapproval. He continued to break the cultural values and social norms...he was met with gossip, exclusion, and threats. That is the nature of social control of humans. As a PhD in Media, he should have at least taken ONE course in either Anthropology or Sociology. How this little nugget escaped him is beyond me.
So in recapping:
He engaged in a case study that be involved himself in heavily, gathered no informed consent, gave no exiting therapy, broke the norms and values of the culture and then pretended to be shocked, AND is now pretending to be the victim of a lurid, insulting gaming underworld.
Dr. Myers, I am only a Psychology undergrad and I know enough about research to know that your case study and your published book are absolute hogwash with no applicable value beyond a retelling of the events that you orchestrated. Any self-respecting researcher would realize the moral, ethical, and professional errors in your case study that should be laughed out of any actual peer-reviewed journal. I cannot help but postulate that this very fact is why you've published this as a book and not in a journal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mysidia?
Marry me.
kthx
*goes back to Freedom*
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
If you go into an amusement park and create a disruption that upsets those that are there to have fun, I'd expect that you would be asked to leave or escorted off the property.
City of Heroes is no different. If you violate the terms of service or rules of conduct, through activities such as causing a disruption, you can expect to be asked to leave or otherwise have action taken on your account.
For those who are playing and are impacted by a situation that negatively affects their gameplay - be it other player actions or through a bug - we want to hear about it. You can contact us via the in game /petition command and out of game through the link in my signature.
- Lighthouse
My current draft of my Letter to the Editor.
Note: Unfortunately, according to their editorial desk, this letter is FAR too long. The woman I spoke with recommended 200-250 words, and this is 542 words. That's just not gonna cut it. So, give me tips on what I should pare down that won't rob the letter of the point it is trying to make, which is basically that our community is almost entirely good while Twixt was simply being dishonest about the validity of his findings. The author of the original article (who I spoke with yesterday) encouraged that I play up the good stuff the community does. I also have to avoid any "gamer terms" to allow maximum understanding. So, here's it so far:
[ QUOTE ]
Re: City of Heroes character Twixt becomes games most hated outcast courtesy of Loyola professor , Local News, July 6.
Over the course of the last 4 years, Ive been a part of the City of Heroes (CoH) community. I have posted regularly on their official forums, Ive regularly played and interacted with other players in the game, and Ive come to know a wide variety of people through that online world. I would consider myself to be a decent judge of our little online community of approximately 100,000 people.
This all contributes to the shock I received when I read the Times-Picayunes story about David Myers study of our community. The shock did not come from the fact that Myers had done such a study. Myers himself actually posted a link on the CoH forums to his paper last year. The shock came from the fact that Myers was not only (apparently) turning his paper into a book, but that he was being featured in an article that did not properly research what Myers wrote about.
Myers portrayed our community as one filled with anger, hate, and cliquish behaviors. He portrayed us as a group who made their own rules and would abusively attack anyone who questioned these subjective guidelines. His entire paper hinges on this demonization of our community as a whole. The problem is that in order to demonize all of us, he had to present himself as an innocent victim. A small amount of research would find that the dishonesty of this assessment is obvious.
Our community includes a player-founded and supported taxi service of experienced players who shuttle new players around to save them time. We have our own player-founded and supported emergency medical technicians who dedicate their time to helping heal and assist hurt players. Our forums include well-wishes for players who have new babies, get married, or go off to war. We have watched community members accomplish their dreams, including fellow player Jarrett Crippens win on the TV show, Who Wants to be a Superhero. We have sponsored charities, conventions, meet-and-greets, and have even had a few weddings. Somehow, none of these things made it into Myers paper.
Myers presented the extreme negatives of our community as the standard. I dont know a single individual in the community who condones what some individuals said in response to Myers actions. However, Myers leaves out that he verbally attacked, insulted, harassed, stalked, and goaded many more individuals than he noted. Some of his verbal attacks are still present on our forums. He did more than just use a loophole in the rules, he specifically went out of his way to insult and harass as many players as he possibly could. Similar to someone who drives 45 MPH in the fast lane on the highway, he followed the letter of the law, but he worked hard to disregard common decency in every way possible.
Supporting such actions is ridiculous, and portraying Myers words as fact by judging our community on what he said alone is downright offensive. In the future, I hope that both sides of stories are actually presented. Just because we get labeled with the term gamers doesnt mean were not people.
NAME NAME
Davis, California
[/ QUOTE ]
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
If you go into an amusement park and create a disruption that upsets those that are there to have fun, I'd expect that you would be asked to leave or escorted off the property.
City of Heroes is no different. If you violate the terms of service or rules of conduct, through activities such as causing a disruption, you can expect to be asked to leave or otherwise have action taken on your account.
For those who are playing and are impacted by a situation that negatively affects their gameplay - be it other player actions or through a bug - we want to hear about it. You can contact us via the in game /petition command and out of game through the link in my signature.
- Lighthouse
[/ QUOTE ]
1) Mysidia!? Welcome back? Or did you just poke your head in to this fun little thread? Awesome post- hit just about every nail on its head.
2) Dinah is Lighthouse? Who knew?
3) Pie
"Don't unravel them-- your ears were meant to be that way."
-Steve Aylett
[ QUOTE ]
2) Dinah is Lighthouse? Who knew?
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT... even though technically something could be done about it!!!
I am just amazed this guy has snuck under the radar for so long in his career.
Someone needs to re-evaluate this mans worth in their educational system, if this is the type of research he teaches and applies.
-
Hai, i too would like to "research" *wink*wink* the OBVIOUS and get paid, kthx.
Huggles,
Twixt
Heh. So I actually got around to reading this with some downtime at work.... it was interesting.... >.>
Alot of the quotes from chat logs just sounded so stupid >.>
[ QUOTE ]
Mrow... Mysidia is so hawt right now.
I hope you posted that in the comments on the article.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is old news, still amusing though.