Why is it that people with amazing concepts..

My concepts sometimes get kicked in the tenders well before the APPs (which I've skipped altogether in favour of other power picks a couple of times). The worst casualty was my immortal mystical kung fu scrapper. Setting aside the fact that he took Regen for the ability to have a sort of passive inexhaustibility which was appropriate to his immortality, only to have the set changed into something necessarily more active...

He picked up Whirlwind because when he saw it the spinning animation stuck the characters arms straight out in a sort of awesome spinning lariat. Of course, by that time the animation had been changed so the character's arms hung limply and uninterestingly at their side.

He was also planning on taking Phase Shift for his Astral Form, but of course that power got fragged into uselessness for that purpose.

And never mind the fact that to get two powers for concept he had to take four other powers that he didn't need. It's probably best they no longer fit, anyway, since he no longer has as many power picks available due to needing more annoying Regen clicks to be viable. I'd reroll him as a Willpower, which is now more appropriate to his concept, but I just can't bring myself to go through those 36 levels again.

So, yeah, sometimes stuff happens and concepts change or fall apart altogether.

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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

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If you're wondering why my avatar is MIA, the site I used to host it at no longer allows direct linking and the free image hosting site someone suggested worked for a bit but then vanished.

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But i see your avatar right there.

And look on the bright side about the phase changes: You may not be able to run phase shift continuously now, but you can still get two phasing powers as infinitely renewable temps.

Actually, the addition of stealth IO's allowed me to skip Stealth on my DM/SR Scrapper who was conceived as the ghost of a boxer who died before his time. With the phase temps he can still go intangible when it's really needed and skip the stealth pool completely.

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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

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The other day I saw a blaster who was themed as a witch. A great bio, and electric blast/electric manipulation. Her outfit was pretty cool and her bio was enjoyable. Yet to my suprise when reading her power selection she had the munitions epic power pool. I noted that this witch would apperantly throw out a ROCKET LAUNCHER amongst her electric spells?

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P.S I realise that sometimes it is thematically correct to have different elements etc, but you can only stretch it so far.

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Yeah, i know what you mean.

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OMG! That "Strike Witches" show looks totally==>

I've never heard of it before, but a show that combines so many anime stereotypes together that it becomes something original must be pretty amazing.

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Okay, now I'm getting an idea for a new supergroup that I will probably never get around to doing. All nuns who would be AR/Devices/Munitions Blasters...

An Army of Nuns.

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Okay, now I'm getting an idea for a new supergroup that I will probably never get around to doing. All nuns who would be AR/Devices/Munitions Blasters...

An Army of Nuns.

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Might I suggest a name: Brides of CRIPES!

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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!

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Because rocket launching witches are AWESOME. That's why.

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I'm going with this.

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I am also. I'm not quite seeing why the concept of a witch using a rocket launcher is bad? Presumably by level 40 she has made some contacts in the military, or other source for military hardware and decided she liked it and wants to use it.

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But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

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Out of curiosity, why couldn't a witch use a rocket launcher? She's got two hands. Heck even Buff the Vampire Slayer used a rocket launcher.

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I think the OP's point was that the character was "magic" and not "tech".

Of course, a witch could use a rocket launcher. I guess and example may have been better if a "tech" character took an epic pool to cast "magic" spells.



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Yes I suspect that is the OP's actual point about how 'wrong' it is to make a none pure concept build. Ie magic/tech. And yet the genre supports it. While there are occasionally pure concepts generally most super heroes turn out to be a mixed origin. Oh sure one might be prominent but they often have aspects of what COX would call other origins in their back story and powers.

That is why I've always been faintly amused by the people who insist on purity of concept ie the mundane who can't use technology to fly, tap into the teleport grid etc.... but must run everywhere. Come one people there is amazing high tech available if you know where to look and you are telling me a hero couldn't pick up a magic or tech gizmo to do something?

This doesn't mean a pure build is wrong, just that it is only a minor example of the ways you can build and set your characters concept.

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But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

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Don't really know what else to add, but maybe even witches need some kind of 'oh crap' thing to whip out when things get tough?

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At the tail end of level 40...

"Laugh now, my pretties. You may have shrugged off my mighty powers borne of ancient magic. But the time is drawing nigh when you will regret our foolishness. Mark my words..."


After a little montage to get to 41...

"I'm back! Remember me? And now for a magic of a new and different kind..." (Whips out the rocket launcher and blows the bums away.)

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I'm suddenly reminded of the end of wizards when the good wizard whips out a pistol and shots his brother the evil wizard.

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But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

For myself, I have an easy time explaining temp powers or abilities. Every single character heroside, and every character villainsiide, share something in common. If you're a hero, you've gone to City Hall and registered with them. Regardless of what you you claim your origin is, all heroes start out at City Hall and are given a security clearance (visible on your character screen). All villains start out in the Zig. The blackwand my mutant tanker carries? I a made friend during indoctrination and he gave me that as a parting gift. Sands of Mu? A little trick a zig cellmate taught me. The tech my magic blaster carries (body armor, long range missile)? As I got more and more experience fighting Paragon's villains, I realized I'd need to augment my abilities with some tech, so I raided our superbase's storeroom for some things we gadgets we picked up over time.

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Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break

The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens

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For myself, I have an easy time explaining temp powers or abilities. Every single character heroside, and every character villainsiide, share something in common. If you're a hero, you've gone to City Hall and registered with them. Regardless of what you you claim your origin is, all heroes start out at City Hall and are given a security clearance (visible on your character screen). All villains start out in the Zig. The blackwand my mutant tanker carries? I a made friend during indoctrination and he gave me that as a parting gift. Sands of Mu? A little trick a zig cellmate taught me. The tech my magic blaster carries (body armor, long range missile)? As I got more and more experience fighting Paragon's villains, I realized I'd need to augment my abilities with some tech, so I raided our superbase's storeroom for some things we gadgets we picked up over time.

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This is the best job I've seen working through the "incongruities" OP is so worried about - Good Job!

And I LOL's at the memories from Wizards. Yep, a "little trick Mom taught me" works to explain any number of things.

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Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!

Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon

"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."

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If you're wondering why my avatar is MIA, the site I used to host it at no longer allows direct linking and the free image hosting site someone suggested worked for a bit but then vanished.

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But i see your avatar right there.

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It randomly doesn't load. Quite irritating. But I've been meaning to change my sig...

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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

This is just an example of Crazy Prepared.

There are even non-weaponized versions of this existing in comics.

For example, Enchantress from DC comics always has a roll of duct tape on her person.

So, for those little instances where your enemy is gloating about how they're immune to your primary and secondary forms of butt-kickery.
*Pulls a rocket launcher out of hammerspace*
Villain: What the....oh crap...
*KABOOM!*

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My witch is a communist sleeper agent who uses robots to bring the imperialist westerners to their knees.

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Yes I suspect that is the OP's actual point about how 'wrong' it is to make a none pure concept build.

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Actually, I believe the OP's actual point was that people would break concept without an attempt at justification because some powers are just better mechanically, even if they don't make sense. You can think up any excuse and justification, but when this hasn't been done, it becomes a "why" moment.

And I have to agree. If you're going to break concept, at least put forward the effort to justify it. Put something in the bio, tweak something on the costume, the options are there.

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Okay, now I'm getting an idea for a new supergroup that I will probably never get around to doing. All nuns who would be AR/Devices/Munitions Blasters...

An Army of Nuns.

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I think this is what you're looking for . . .

Renegade Nuns on Wheels.

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Another thought - have you ever actually asked one of these people in-character about their choice? You might be surprsied how many of them have a good explination. Or at least a passable one.

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Seriously, do you KNOW how hard it is to adjust a perfectly good Background on a character that has been just fine for 40 levels, only to have the choice of an APP / PPP mean you "have to" change it so your powers list looks okay to other people?

I have a Gravity / Storm Controller called Mr. Right. Long story short, he's a mutant and for 40 levels, those were his things. Now, at 41, I get the choice of an APP, and as play style lead me to pick Psy, I justified it by it being yet another Mutant ability. If I don't put that in my Description (which is most likely at the character cap), then no one knows why, or how, it's there.

Maybe the OP just never thought that they didn't craft the Description at every level and just did it once?

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I can empathise with you, on some AT's getting an EPP that actually fits the theme is borderline impossible without stretching the concept beyond what is personally acceptable.

For your character you could always try the Cold EPP, as that could be argued is an extension of /storm. I almost did it on my hero, however in the end I wanted to focus on his psychic powers, his storm powers in comparison are very secondary.

Again I will repeat my original post to those quoting it, I am not saying people can't choose whatever powers they want. I'm not saying EPP's should be restricted to what primary/secondary you have via some game mechanics. However I am saying that I can't help feel disapointed when I see good concepts with silly EPP's to match. Obviously I've hit a nerve or something judging by the reactions, but I still believe people should choose EPP's to fit the concept where possible and not just treat them as an out of character power pool.

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pffft, i couldn't care less about concept. i play what's fun.

this smacks of the whole "folks should care less about xp, and more about RP" silliness that is currently going through the forums.

I also find the whole idea that someone who uses magic or tech can't also use the other or have abilities in the other realm, to be incredibly stupid.

Especially with things like Dr. Doom out their in comics.

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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

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Yes I suspect that is the OP's actual point about how 'wrong' it is to make a none pure concept build.

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Actually, I believe the OP's actual point was that people would break concept without an attempt at justification because some powers are just better mechanically, even if they don't make sense. You can think up any excuse and justification, but when this hasn't been done, it becomes a "why" moment.

And I have to agree. If you're going to break concept, at least put forward the effort to justify it. Put something in the bio, tweak something on the costume, the options are there.

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Why?

If the person in question doesn't care, why should you?

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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

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My witch is a communist sleeper agent who uses robots to bring the imperialist westerners to their knees.

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i have a Blaster who is a magical girl who uses an assault rifle as her magical weapon. Then a few months after i made her i started watching Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, which is all about magic-focusing technologies. Very inspirational for a character that was conceived as an trigger-happy, rifle-using magical girl.
Actually, the power-boosting cartridge system some of the characters in Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha use is also highly reminiscent of inspiration use on a character.... And seeing a magic staff ejecting shells like it's an antitank gun has a certain charm.

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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

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And seeing a magic staff ejecting shells like it's an antitank gun has a certain charm.

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It does, and I can't figure out why I like it.

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Yes I suspect that is the OP's actual point about how 'wrong' it is to make a none pure concept build.

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Actually, I believe the OP's actual point was that people would break concept without an attempt at justification because some powers are just better mechanically, even if they don't make sense. You can think up any excuse and justification, but when this hasn't been done, it becomes a "why" moment.

And I have to agree. If you're going to break concept, at least put forward the effort to justify it. Put something in the bio, tweak something on the costume, the options are there.

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Why?

If the person in question doesn't care, why should you?

[/ QUOTE ]Because everyone should explain every little bit of their character's concept in their bio!

Then again, I pretty much never explain my character's concepts in my bio I see no need to explain why my fox spirit carries a BFG as well as various technological gadgets in the bio... the bio is for whatever the person thinks should go in there, which may or may not explains all their powers (especially something as minor as their APP!)

The character's origin? Sure.
The character's story over their career? Why not.
The list of 50s that player has? Of course.
The list of AVs they still need to kill for Portal Jockey? That's fine.
The entire origin story for why Dr. Hospital O'Healy is a TA/A? Sorry, space constraints.

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I guess by 41 they've lost the vision they started with and are more interested in power.

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UNLIMITED POWAAAAA!!1!

It happens to the best of them.

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I guess by 41 they've lost the vision they started with and are more interested in power.

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UNLIMITED POWAAAAA!!1!

It happens to the best of them.

[/ QUOTE ]If that was an example of the best of them...

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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

Didn't the main guy in Outlaw Star use a gun based on a lost technology that used magic for the ammo?

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I see nothing wrong with a rocket launching witch. Sounds like a smart witch.

If you're curious *why* she had a rocket launcher, you should have asked rather than assumed it was for some meta reason (Munitions is hardly the best blaster EPP). I can think of many reasons a witch would have one, but the easiest is that she's able to summon/transmute things, and what better thing to summon when in a tough fight than some high explosive whoop [censored]?

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Infatum on Virtueverse

Interesting thread...

Personally, my Epic/Patron picks always jibe with the character concept, although I've had to do a fair bit of rationalization on occasion. Not infrequently, I've elected not to take an Epic or (more commonly) Patron pool at all, usually for concept reasons. Sometimes I don't pick one because I don't care for the choices from an effectiveness standpoint, too.

One thing I never do is take a pick that flagrantly clashes with concept. I'm an RP'er, and something like that would be immersion-breaking...and thus is simply off the table. I could care less about any small reduction in min/max efficiency, most all of which can be effectively built around with clever IO use.

Can't say that I care a great deal what other players decide to do. I very seldom run in PUGs any more, and most of the people I play with consider concept in these choices. Their picks aren't likely to create a "sour note" in my gameplay.

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"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."