Why is it that people with amazing concepts..
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-07-03 07:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Another thought - have you ever actually asked one of these people in-character about their choice? You might be surprsied how many of them have a good explination. Or at least a passable one.
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Seriously, do you KNOW how hard it is to adjust a perfectly good Background on a character that has been just fine for 40 levels, only to have the choice of an APP / PPP mean you "have to" change it so your powers list looks okay to other people?
I have a Gravity / Storm Controller called Mr. Right. Long story short, he's a mutant and for 40 levels, those were his things. Now, at 41, I get the choice of an APP, and as play style lead me to pick Psy, I justified it by it being yet another Mutant ability. If I don't put that in my Description (which is most likely at the character cap), then no one knows why, or how, it's there.
Maybe the OP just never thought that they didn't craft the Description at every level and just did it once?
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..completely ruin the theme sometimes when it comes to Epic Power Pools?
Now don't get me wrong, I'm NOT telling anyone how to play at all. However it just strikes me as so odd when someone has obviously put a lot of thought into a character, their primary/secondary powerset, bio, character name. Yet come up with the most rediculous EPP. It is such a shame I think.
The other day I saw a blaster who was themed as a witch. A great bio, and electric blast/electric manipulation. Her outfit was pretty cool and her bio was enjoyable. Yet to my suprise when reading her power selection she had the munitions epic power pool. I noted that this witch would apperantly throw out a ROCKET LAUNCHER amongst her electric spells? 
Why is it that when people reach 41, their idea of concept sometimes flies out the window?
Sometimes a flawed character who doesn't wipe the floor with everything and does have weaknesses, is a more interesting character to play.
Peacemoon, Mind/Storm/Psi Controller
P.S I realise that sometimes it is thematically correct to have different elements etc, but you can only stretch it so far.
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Yes, how dare they make intelligent strategic decisions and not gimp themselves to conform to your arbitrary standards of what makes an acceptable character. Those bastards! Also, I have to say I've never understood the logic that a wizard shoudl be somehow phsicaly incapable of using modern technology - rocket launchers are badass, and being a witch doesn't make you forget how to pull the trigger on one.
Another thought - have you ever actually asked one of these people in-character about their choice? You might be surprsied how many of them have a good explination. Or at least a passable one.
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What's really amazing is that when people come here to complain that they can't justify travel powers for their characters with the Natural origin, we tell then they need to be more creative with their concepts and bio's.
Why is it ok for Naturals to use Science, Tech, and Magic but Magic must be restricted?
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Because if you can't think of a magical way to travel, you must be a really inept magician? 
More seriously, I think Naturals tend to get a pass in this area because there's so many "super" abilities that their origin ostensibly locks them out of. If they didn't steal Science/Magic/Technology tricks every now and again, they'd be crippled in comparison. Meanwhile, how many things are considered impossible when you can do magic? The surprise when a Magic character reaches outside their origin is probably "Why would you need to?" without considering that the character may just *want* to. Or that their "non-magical" features may in fact be deceptively camouflaged magic.
Storm Summoning is great because it makes you better than everyone else in the game. - Camma
Knockback is mitigation. It won't be removed just because meleers ***** and moan. - Chaos Creator
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Because if you can't think of a magical way to travel, you must be a really inept magician?
More seriously, I think Naturals tend to get a pass in this area because there's so many "super" abilities that their origin ostensibly locks them out of. If they didn't steal Science/Magic/Technology tricks every now and again, they'd be crippled in comparison. Meanwhile, how many things are considered impossible when you can do magic? The surprise when a Magic character reaches outside their origin is probably "Why would you need to?" without considering that the character may just *want* to. Or that their "non-magical" features may in fact be deceptively camouflaged magic.
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My friend's magic ice/nrg blaster has the gun specifically because she wanted to shoot magic rockets at things.
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
That's why my Nrg/Ice Blaster brother got it... just for the rocket launcher. >_>
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Maybe the spell is what makes the rocket launcher appear out of thin air?
Maybe after getting a 'concept' character to 41, with however much struggle was involved, they feel they can do whatever they please?
These are established characters. They've been places and done things. They've had ample opportunity to pick up ... unusual mutations, habits, equipment, tendancies, STD's, and so forth. Stories get complicated when you try to live them. How much baggage does Green Lantern have, or Hawkman, after 40-odd years?
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Bullet Witch
END OF LINE
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... I know what my next character is!
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Bullet Witch
END OF LINE
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... I know what my next character is!
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Some sort of Game Grid Warrior from TRON?
Not related:
Weird Science, that is the best avatar anywhere on these boards. No kidding. 
Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto:
Bad
Most of the time, if i want powers that dont fit my concept, i make them work somehow. For example I have a character that is a monkey named Koko who was taken from south america, and sold to Nemesis for one of his new life extension experiments. He was trying to copy his intelligence into a different brain.
Crey then attacked the nemesis base only to find that nemesis was already gone. They found Koko and took him to their labs and experimented on him. His brain was furthur changed by their experiments giving him the power to control the minds of others to do his bidding. He is now known as Kokomono!
He is a Thugs/Pain MM who will be getting the mace patron pool. MM because, like Nemesis, he will hardly do his own fighting. Thugs because he wipes the mind of people he finds on the streets and controls their bodies. Pain because he will make his puppets fight through anything until their bodies are completly destroyed. and mace because he has some of the mind of Nemesis who wears a bunch of armor, and carries a staff. Mace will give me scorpion shield, and a mace (super booster III will let me make him a big armored suit costume)
Basicly, it is hard to tell what the person was thinking of when they made their toon and even harder to know why they choose the powers they did.
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Another thought - have you ever actually asked one of these people in-character about their choice? You might be surprsied how many of them have a good explination. Or at least a passable one.
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Seriously, do you KNOW how hard it is to adjust a perfectly good Background on a character that has been just fine for 40 levels, only to have the choice of an APP / PPP mean you "have to" change it so your powers list looks okay to other people?
I have a Gravity / Storm Controller called Mr. Right. Long story short, he's a mutant and for 40 levels, those were his things. Now, at 41, I get the choice of an APP, and as play style lead me to pick Psy, I justified it by it being yet another Mutant ability. If I don't put that in my Description (which is most likely at the character cap), then no one knows why, or how, it's there.
Maybe the OP just never thought that they didn't craft the Description at every level and just did it once?
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I can empathise with you, on some AT's getting an EPP that actually fits the theme is borderline impossible without stretching the concept beyond what is personally acceptable.
For your character you could always try the Cold EPP, as that could be argued is an extension of /storm. I almost did it on my hero, however in the end I wanted to focus on his psychic powers, his storm powers in comparison are very secondary.
Again I will repeat my original post to those quoting it, I am not saying people can't choose whatever powers they want. I'm not saying EPP's should be restricted to what primary/secondary you have via some game mechanics. However I am saying that I can't help feel disapointed when I see good concepts with silly EPP's to match. Obviously I've hit a nerve or something judging by the reactions, but I still believe people should choose EPP's to fit the concept where possible and not just treat them as an out of character power pool.
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I would loved to have had a more thematic epic for my rad/rad corrupter.
But I had the choice of Dark, Lightning, Technology or Fish powers, nothing that fitted my theme.
If I16 allows me to recolour my Mu effects i'll be pretty happy
Crime of Fashion Level 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter
My Toons
My Rad/Rad Corrupters Guide
Mindscape - Reworking
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Another thought - have you ever actually asked one of these people in-character about their choice? You might be surprsied how many of them have a good explination. Or at least a passable one.
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Seriously, do you KNOW how hard it is to adjust a perfectly good Background on a character that has been just fine for 40 levels, only to have the choice of an APP / PPP mean you "have to" change it so your powers list looks okay to other people?
I have a Gravity / Storm Controller called Mr. Right. Long story short, he's a mutant and for 40 levels, those were his things. Now, at 41, I get the choice of an APP, and as play style lead me to pick Psy, I justified it by it being yet another Mutant ability. If I don't put that in my Description (which is most likely at the character cap), then no one knows why, or how, it's there.
Maybe the OP just never thought that they didn't craft the Description at every level and just did it once?
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I can empathise with you, on some AT's getting an EPP that actually fits the theme is borderline impossible without stretching the concept beyond what is personally acceptable.
For your character you could always try the Cold EPP, as that could be argued is an extension of /storm. I almost did it on my hero, however in the end I wanted to focus on his psychic powers, his storm powers in comparison are very secondary.
Again I will repeat my original post to those quoting it, I am not saying people can't choose whatever powers they want. I'm not saying EPP's should be restricted to what primary/secondary you have via some game mechanics. However I am saying that I can't help feel disapointed when I see good concepts with silly EPP's to match. Obviously I've hit a nerve or something judging by the reactions, but I still believe people should choose EPP's to fit the concept where possible and not just treat them as an out of character power pool.
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It will be difficult, I feel certain, but somehow I know that I will find the strength to go on living in spite of your disapointment.
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Bullet Witch
END OF LINE
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... I know what my next character is!
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Some sort of Game Grid Warrior from TRON?
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Also a cool idea!
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Another thought - have you ever actually asked one of these people in-character about their choice? You might be surprsied how many of them have a good explination. Or at least a passable one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously, do you KNOW how hard it is to adjust a perfectly good Background on a character that has been just fine for 40 levels, only to have the choice of an APP / PPP mean you "have to" change it so your powers list looks okay to other people?
I have a Gravity / Storm Controller called Mr. Right. Long story short, he's a mutant and for 40 levels, those were his things. Now, at 41, I get the choice of an APP, and as play style lead me to pick Psy, I justified it by it being yet another Mutant ability. If I don't put that in my Description (which is most likely at the character cap), then no one knows why, or how, it's there.
Maybe the OP just never thought that they didn't craft the Description at every level and just did it once?
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I can empathise with you, on some AT's getting an EPP that actually fits the theme is borderline impossible without stretching the concept beyond what is personally acceptable.
For your character you could always try the Cold EPP, as that could be argued is an extension of /storm. I almost did it on my hero, however in the end I wanted to focus on his psychic powers, his storm powers in comparison are very secondary.
Again I will repeat my original post to those quoting it, I am not saying people can't choose whatever powers they want. I'm not saying EPP's should be restricted to what primary/secondary you have via some game mechanics. However I am saying that I can't help feel disapointed when I see good concepts with silly EPP's to match. Obviously I've hit a nerve or something judging by the reactions, but I still believe people should choose EPP's to fit the concept where possible and not just treat them as an out of character power pool.
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OK Peace let me explain the trouble I'm having with your position. To me it seems you're making assumptions. Have you actually asked the people in question about the logic behind their choices and how it fits into their concept?
For example, One of the magic themed characters I have uses modern enchanted weapons in the place of traditional medieval ones. He does this because he is concealing his magic nature from the general populace and his enemies.
For a wand of magic missles he uses the Pistol temp power.
For his staff/rod he uses his AR
Instead of a ring of invisibilty he uses a cloaking device.
For Golems he makes Targeting/Gun drones
Disposable runes with various effects are his grenades.
The same logic can be used to explain away the Munitions Mastery powers.
Body Armor can be an enchantment that activates when a word of power is spoken.
Cryo Freeze Ray can be a can be cast from an enchanted squirt gun.
Sleep Grenade can be a hurled potion or rune with an area effect. When I used to play fantasy RPG's I used a bow with hollow glass spheres instead of arrowheads. when the glass sphere broke the magic potion/powder inside would go off.
LRM Missle could easily be a concealed fireball or whatever.
Just because you choose to lock your creativity into a rigid structure of what magic should or should not look like and what they should use doesn't mean everyone else should.
I can justify any power I choose for any character regardless of origin. The real problem lies with the fact that I most likely have run out of space in my characters bio to explain my decisions.
On more than one occasion I've run out of space as a character has leveled, because I use my bio to describe my characters game life.
The 'classic' Dr. Doom is primarily a tech-based Armored dude, yet I've seen him fire Eldritch Blasts and perform otherwordly summonings...
Spawn is a resurrected revenant imbued with the powers of hell, but I've seen him use guns and *gasp* a Rocket Launcher...
I see your point. My MA/SR scrapper does all these beautiful kicks and then when someone runs she blasts them with lasers from her eyes...wtf!
Even so, that extra power might differ from theme, but it can be what gives someone an edge. It's certainly not without precedent
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Is there some sort of MMO law that says a witch can't trade her broomstick for a boomstick?
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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Is there some sort of MMO law that says a witch can't trade her broomstick for a boomstick?
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Gun Witch's broomstick is a boomstick.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Is there some sort of MMO law that says a witch can't trade her broomstick for a boomstick?
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Gun Witch's broomstick is a boomstick.
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You know, that reminds me of this grade school teacher i once had............
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The other day I saw a blaster who was themed as a witch. A great bio, and electric blast/electric manipulation. Her outfit was pretty cool and her bio was enjoyable. Yet to my suprise when reading her power selection she had the munitions epic power pool. I noted that this witch would apperantly throw out a ROCKET LAUNCHER amongst her electric spells?
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P.S I realise that sometimes it is thematically correct to have different elements etc, but you can only stretch it so far.
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Yeah, i know what you mean.
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Holy crappola that first vid was some funny stuff. I think I just woke up the spousal unit I was laughing so hard
I think you missed my point Peacemoon.
How do you know there wasn't a good concept behind the Rocket Launcher? Just as I had a "good" concept behind picking the Psy EPP, and had no room to add it into my Description (short of a one line edit which looks retarded), the player in question may not have felt compelled to ruin / edit the Bio upon picking up Munitions.
Other players asked did you ask them, and I want to reiterate that, because nothing you've said indicates you have. You just spout that it's a good concept ruined by the choice of and EPP, when in fact, it might be that you aren't getting the whole picture.
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How do you know there wasn't a good concept behind the Rocket Launcher?
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I'm wondering this too. I've got a fire mage character who's also an alien cyborg and uses a gun to supplement his relatively average-grade power over fire (AR/Fire/Fire blaster, in case you're wondering). Nothing wrong with a witch having a rocket launcher.
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
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Is there some sort of MMO law that says a witch can't trade her broomstick for a boomstick?
[/ QUOTE ]Maybe we can dub it "Peacemoon's Law"?
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..completely ruin the theme sometimes when it comes to Epic Power Pools?
Now don't get me wrong, I'm NOT telling anyone how to play at all. However it just strikes me as so odd when someone has obviously put a lot of thought into a character, their primary/secondary powerset, bio, character name. Yet come up with the most rediculous EPP. It is such a shame I think.
The other day I saw a blaster who was themed as a witch. A great bio, and electric blast/electric manipulation. Her outfit was pretty cool and her bio was enjoyable. Yet to my suprise when reading her power selection she had the munitions epic power pool. I noted that this witch would apperantly throw out a ROCKET LAUNCHER amongst her electric spells?
Why is it that when people reach 41, their idea of concept sometimes flies out the window?
Sometimes a flawed character who doesn't wipe the floor with everything and does have weaknesses, is a more interesting character to play.
Peacemoon, Mind/Storm/Psi Controller
P.S I realise that sometimes it is thematically correct to have different elements etc, but you can only stretch it so far.
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Yes, how dare they make intelligent strategic decisions and not gimp themselves to conform to your arbitrary standards of what makes an acceptable character. Those bastards! Also, I have to say I've never understood the logic that a wizard shoudl be somehow phsicaly incapable of using modern technology - rocket launchers are badass, and being a witch doesn't make you forget how to pull the trigger on one.
Another thought - have you ever actually asked one of these people in-character about their choice? You might be surprsied how many of them have a good explination. Or at least a passable one.
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What's really amazing is that when people come here to complain that they can't justify travel powers for their characters with the Natural origin, we tell then they need to be more creative with their concepts and bio's.
Why is it ok for Naturals to use Science, Tech, and Magic but Magic must be restricted?