My First Thoughts on Reichsman Strikeforce
By
7thCynic,
Posted on: 2009-06-29 18:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
*raises hand* I am probably gonna get shouted down on this, but my Objective experience with the SF is very good, Did it on my Mastermind (merc/Storm) and my Crab Spider and both had a blast, the ambushes let me go nuts with the storm powers and Crab Spiders are great AOE killing machines, Riech in the Villain Side of the Storyline is a push over compared to the Heroes one(makes sense since he gets help).
The Hero one is a Wimp Version of Rommy with a weaker stun, even if it does Damage and Much weaker AV help Countess Crey, Falcon and Vanessa didn't even cause the team to hiccup in terms of Surival and were all dead in less than a minute, Nemesis lasted a bit longer cause he Poped PFF, but they are way easier to deal with than the -Damage -Recharge -Tohit in Twilight Grasp, The Dark Obliteration Type Power and the Army of Nicti that can occur in the ITF if you are unlucky.
Also, against Redside Reich, Slows seem to be really effective in keeping the Phase powers from recharging constantly, but I could be wrong.
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...Riech in the Villain Side of the Storyline is a push over compared to the Heroes one(makes sense since he gets help).
The Hero one is a Wimp Version of Rommy with a weaker stun...
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Hold on, so youre saying:
SF Reich < TF Reich < ITF Rom?
Wow, talk abt different experiences. Ive tackled Rom w/a team of 4 in minutes, SF Reich took over an hour w/a full team.
SF Reich definitely needs to be toned down. If they want to make him tough, fine - but find a better way. This is just boring grinding, which i think is the opposite of what they were aiming for.
I took him out with my Merc/Storm on a Pug in about 20 Minutes of real fighting, the Spawns gave us more problems than Reich Did, aside from him Gutting my Pets, but again that comes down to the possibility that slows affect the Recharge of his phase, without it he ain't tough.
Also I have Gutted Rommy in four minutes as well, but alot of how Fighting Rommy fares depends on how the Nicti Act.
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...Riech in the Villain Side of the Storyline is a push over compared to the Heroes one(makes sense since he gets help).
The Hero one is a Wimp Version of Rommy with a weaker stun...
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Hold on, so youre saying:
SF Reich < TF Reich < ITF Rom?
Wow, talk abt different experiences. Ive tackled Rom w/a team of 4 in minutes, SF Reich took over an hour w/a full team.
SF Reich definitely needs to be toned down. If they want to make him tough, fine - but find a better way. This is just boring grinding, which i think is the opposite of what they were aiming for.
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I would completely reverse that difficulty line also. I'm yet to be on a full team that had any trouble with rommy. Ever.
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Just one little additional comment because I've said plenty about canon and the TF already: the original Axis America troops looked like this and they aren't in the game any more. The unlockable Axis America critters in the Mission Architect are wrong. They're just the Council Empire models, with human faces instead of Fifth Column masks.
Please bring back Original Flavour Axis America. 
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The original Axis America mobs dont have a lot of variety to them theres basically four minions (the rifle, rocket, grenade, and flamethrower), one lieutenant, and one boss in the group. Thats not enough variety to provide interesting encounters for an entire story arc. While it would have been very cool to use them, we didnt have the resources available to expand the group in a way that would let us use them for the missions.
Id like to see the original Axis America troops available in Mission Architect, and Ill look into that. No promises, but if we can make it happen, Ill try to see that it does.
--Horatio
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Just one little additional comment because I've said plenty about canon and the TF already: the original Axis America troops looked like this and they aren't in the game any more. The unlockable Axis America critters in the Mission Architect are wrong. They're just the Council Empire models, with human faces instead of Fifth Column masks.
Please bring back Original Flavour Axis America.
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Oooooo! I didn't even know those guys existed. They look great. Yes, I would very much like to see those character models used amongst the Warwolves and robots in the mission to Reichsman's home dimension.
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Just one little additional comment because I've said plenty about canon and the TF already: the original Axis America troops looked like this and they aren't in the game any more. The unlockable Axis America critters in the Mission Architect are wrong. They're just the Council Empire models, with human faces instead of Fifth Column masks.
Please bring back Original Flavour Axis America.
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The original Axis America mobs dont have a lot of variety to them theres basically four minions (the rifle, rocket, grenade, and flamethrower), one lieutenant, and one boss in the group. Thats not enough variety to provide interesting encounters for an entire story arc. While it would have been very cool to use them, we didnt have the resources available to expand the group in a way that would let us use them for the missions.
Id like to see the original Axis America troops available in Mission Architect, and Ill look into that. No promises, but if we can make it happen, Ill try to see that it does.
--Horatio
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Can you not use the 5th Column enemies and reskin them with those costume models?
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While it would have been very cool to use them, we didnt have the resources available to expand the group in a way that would let us use them for the missions.
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Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
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Id like to see the original Axis America troops available in Mission Architect, and Ill look into that. No promises, but if we can make it happen, Ill try to see that it does.
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I think it would be fair, since players are given the option to unlock Axis America critters by paying tickets. But they don't get Axis America critters, they get Council Empire critters with different text!
Really appreciating your responses here, thanks so much.
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Thats not enough variety to provide interesting encounters for an entire story arc. While it would have been very cool to use them, we didnt have the resources available to expand the group in a way that would let us use them for the missions.
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Have you tried the custom critter creator in the MA? It's quite versatile and quick and easy to use 
But seriously, thanks for the responces they are much appreciated, and I look forward to trying the finalised TF/SF.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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As a minor point, can we get a bit more backstory in the Schadenfreude's bio about who this character is? My initial impression was that he was the Axis Earth version of Nosferatu, but that's just a guess.
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It says in his bio that he stayed with the Column when the Center made his move, and rose up through the ranks in the ensuing power gap.
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Just one little additional comment because I've said plenty about canon and the TF already: the original Axis America troops looked like this and they aren't in the game any more. The unlockable Axis America critters in the Mission Architect are wrong. They're just the Council Empire models, with human faces instead of Fifth Column masks.
Please bring back Original Flavour Axis America.
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The original Axis America mobs dont have a lot of variety to them theres basically four minions (the rifle, rocket, grenade, and flamethrower), one lieutenant, and one boss in the group. Thats not enough variety to provide interesting encounters for an entire story arc.
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Oh no, we (or I, anyway) just meant to use the Axis America troops in the Axis America mission-- the one mission that takes place in Axis America. Is that still not good enough? (also, just reskinning 5th would be fine too, as suggested, but note that they never had robots, vampires, or warwolves, just troops) The whole arc doesn't need to be Axis Americans. Note that the 5th have tried to ally with them before, and they were receptive to it until we (the heroes) broke up their negotiations.
Also, is there any chance that the propaganda that played over the loudspeakers can be added to that mission?
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As a minor point, can we get a bit more backstory in the Schadenfreude's bio about who this character is? My initial impression was that he was the Axis Earth version of Nosferatu, but that's just a guess.
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It says in his bio that he stayed with the Column when the Center made his move, and rose up through the ranks in the ensuing power gap.
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We've read this, but you'd think someone identical to Nosferatu would have been noticed before now. He just feels shoved in.
It would be much cooler if he was the Axis America version of Nosy, and is helping the 5th (or a renegade faction of the 5th fed up with Requiem's interest in personal power over the ideals of the Third Reich) and the Reichsman by developing his crazy alternate Marcus Cole power sucking device.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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As a minor point, can we get a bit more backstory in the Schadenfreude's bio about who this character is? My initial impression was that he was the Axis Earth version of Nosferatu, but that's just a guess.
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It says in his bio that he stayed with the Column when the Center made his move, and rose up through the ranks in the ensuing power gap.
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We've read this, but you'd think someone identical to Nosferatu would have been noticed before now. He just feels shoved in.
It would be much cooler if he was the Axis America version of Nosy, and is helping the 5th (or a renegade faction of the 5th fed up with Requiem's interest in personal power over the ideals of the Third Reich) and the Reichsman by developing his crazy alternate Marcus Cole power sucking device.
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Having him be from Earth Prime and loyal to Reichsman runs into all the Requiem/Axis America/Frozen Reichsman continuity errors from before as well.
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Oh no, we (or I, anyway) just meant to use the Axis America troops in the Axis America mission-- the one mission that takes place in Axis America.
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Yes, this! Sorry, I didn't pick up on quite what was written earlier. The Axis America guys would only need to go in that one mission.
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Also, is there any chance that the propaganda that played over the loudspeakers can be added to that mission?
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If it helps, that sound is still in the game. It's the indistinct tannoy voice that plays near the top of the high tower in Grandville.
The 5th Column has had story issues for their entire existence. Perhaps this would be a good time for you guys to fix all of that?
First we learned that in 1939 Adolf Hitler sent a team of covert Nazi super soldiers to America.
Later we learn that Requiem, an Italian, was not only their leader, but their founder? What? I thought that the 5th Column was a group of German Nazi Super Solders. Founded and trained by the Wehrmacht, now they're Italian? Did that accidentally get retconned in during the great change over? There's no way that the meglomaniacial Hitler would place an Italian in charge of his "Übermenschen Supersoldaten."
Ok... So then they go into hiding at the end of the war, and stay hidden until the First Rikti War in 2002. Requiem, who has fused with a Nictus and is now something like 100 years old, and who has personally been in charge of the 5th Column for almost 70 years, gives a speech to his troops on the final day of the 5th Column's existence:
"You, my most loyal of subjects, are to be privy to a secret. Even though the 5th Column may fall this day, our time in the sun is NOT over. We WILL return. I have seen to this personally. Lie in wait within the ranks of the Council. Wait for the sign. Never despair...
...the time WILL come. "
So ok. The end is nigh, he knows that he can't fight it, so his plan once again is to just hide and wait it out. But, then when the 5th Column does finally rise up again, they swear allegence to some guy that they don't know from some alternate dimension. And while that is happening Requiem says; "Oh well. I'll just stay here with the council. I've somehow mysteriously forgotten about my obsession with the return of the 5th Column. Besides, the Council has better health insurance."
All of this information available on Paragon Wiki, but it's also available in that 600 page story bible that Manticore keeps trying to convince us actually exists. But you know what's even funnier? There were multiple forum threads during the beta process explaining just how wrong the story for this Task Force/Strike Force is. It was said weeks ago that the story for this TF/SF ignored canon. Why wasn't that addressed weeks ago?
I appologize for the snark in this post, especially towards the end. I guess that I'm just still so shocked that this TF/SF was allowed to go live with the huge holes in the story. The bugs I can understand, you can always get a patch in next week. But the holes in this story are so big it'd be like if Superman suddenly forgot who Lois Lane even was and then got down on one knee and proposed to Perry White.
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But the holes in this story are so big it'd be like if Superman suddenly forgot who Lois Lane even was and then got down on one knee and proposed to Perry White.
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Knowing Silver-age Superman... That's probably the story on a couple of comics in the 60ies...
I'm all for the changes suggested in this thread, but I have one request...
[u]Don't[u] change the ambushes in the last mission. This is way too much fun, even if we team-wipe and have to get back in.
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The Mastermind temp power is not working at this time; Castle has fixed that, but his fix did not go out with the release due to some build issues. This power should be working in a patch this week.
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I greatly appreciate this notification. Glad to hear the developers are tuned in. Perhaps this will be the, or part of, fix for server downtime today?
@rewster
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...
(i even dropped an HVAC on him during the fight.
...
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Sorry, but I need to chime in here.
The vision of someone dropping a commercial air-conditioning unit on Reichs is now going to be etched in my mind for the rest of the day, leading to fits of uncontrolled giggling. Which will in turn make my co-workers wonder what I've been up to.
Hint. It's the "Heavy Vanguard Assault Suit" aka the HVAS.
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Just one little additional comment because I've said plenty about canon and the TF already: the original Axis America troops looked like this and they aren't in the game any more. The unlockable Axis America critters in the Mission Architect are wrong. They're just the Council Empire models, with human faces instead of Fifth Column masks.
Please bring back Original Flavour Axis America.
[/ QUOTE ]
The original Axis America mobs dont have a lot of variety to them theres basically four minions (the rifle, rocket, grenade, and flamethrower), one lieutenant, and one boss in the group. Thats not enough variety to provide interesting encounters for an entire story arc. While it would have been very cool to use them, we didnt have the resources available to expand the group in a way that would let us use them for the missions.
Id like to see the original Axis America troops available in Mission Architect, and Ill look into that. No promises, but if we can make it happen, Ill try to see that it does.
--Horatio
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Well... since we have access to mostly the same tools you do with the Mission Architect, then why can't you just make a Custom Group that combines 5th and Axis America for that mission?
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As feedback I must once again disagree with the Temps being tied to given ATs. It is not that the Temps make the fight possible or impossible, it is that they make it more interesting. Limiting the Temps to specific ATs limits what players can try or how they can experiment with the encounter.
It also makes forming a team, or finding a team being formed, far more difficult. Now rather than my normal mantra of "bring whatever character you most want to play", I have to ask SG-mates "could you please break out that other character you have instead of the one you most favor which you are currently on?"
Please consider revising this.
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I concur.
The existence of the temps is fine. Tying them to the ATs is not. Especially when the difference that the MM makes appears to be dramatic. Players are going to consider having the "right" ATs "necessary" in the way that they consider Hasten, Stamina and IOs "necessary".
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The Mastermind temp power is not working at this time; Castle has fixed that, but his fix did not go out with the release due to some build issues. This power should be working in a patch this week.
Switching voices, I am aware of the canon issues with the story. The problems are purely my fault; when I came up with the original flow for the story I was under some mistaken impressions on some events in the games history.
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This just strikes me as incredibly sloppy work.This Issue was on test for weeks and you couldn't get this done? Sloppy.
Something to keep in mind:
Having attempted the strike force, the 5th's presence makes perfect sense. They rally around the Reichsman, but he considers them expendable. The only place they IMO should be replaced with Axis Amerika is the 4th mission, which takes place there.
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Maybe they'll listen to beta testers for once.
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Lol yeah...
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Hi, Im Bruce Harlick, aka Horatio, the guy who was in charge of the Reichsman Task Force and Strike Force. Thank you for the comments and feedback on the TF & SF. Id like to take the opportunity to respond to some of them and let you know our some of our intended responses.
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Hello and welcome, Horatio! Thanks for taking the time to post!
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There seems to be some confusion as to the use of the dimensional ground ray in the final fight of the Task Force. Before Reichsmans hit by the ray, he is in a phased state and is running a rather nasty debuffing aura. When he is hit by the ray, it grounds out some of his power and he returns to a normal state and his aura is shut down. This will persist for the duration of the fight. The dimensional grounding ray isnt intended to be used at specific points in the fight; it should be used early on, and one hit will do.
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I have not been able to test out the newer iterations of the TF, but based on the early version, I think more that information needs to be better conveyed within the game itself.
The idea of the DGR is cool and I love the model, but they certainly gave me the impression that they were actual weapons designed to hurt Reichsman. If they are just a one shot gizmo intended to make him fightable at all, it might be best if they were redesigned into something other than a gun.
If they stay a gun, you definately need to explain how they are meant to work to the players that get them very clearly. Otherwise players are going to spend a lot time shooting Reichsman with them, and wondering why it doesn't do anything.
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On the villain side of things, our intent was to try to do something a bit different for the end fight. As has been previously stated, we wanted to do a gadget fight; something that was more than just hit the bad guy until he fell over. And we wanted to encourage teams to include different ATs, to help shake up some standard team compositions. Certainly, the end fight is more difficult without having each of the appropriate ATs on the team, but it is still doable. Each of the temp powers is intended to make stages of the fight easier. There is no one golden solution to solving the fight; by including some or all of the ATs that can take advantage of the various temp powers, you can approach this battle using different tactics.
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As Human_Being already mentioned, I don't think restricting the Temp Powers to specific ATs is a good idea. I'm all for encouraging diversity, but this isn't the way to do it: it will lead to teams being carefully built to bring the right characters, or face a long, frustrating fight.
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Switching voices, I am aware of the canon issues with the story. The problems are purely my fault; when I came up with the original flow for the story I was under some mistaken impressions on some events in the games history. While I did make some adjustments to the story due to the feedback from the training room, I didnt get all the details nailed down as best I could. Due to a tight translation deadline, I was unable to get final text passes into the build that was going to the Live servers, but rest assured Ill be doing my best to address them over the next week or so to bring the story of Reichsmans return in line with the existing history of the 5th Column.
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I'm very happy to hear that the canon concerns are being heard. Thanks for listening!
-D
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