Side switching musings...
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2009-06-28 11:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heros are getting a set of patron powers?
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or they'll implement some new alternative system for defectors only.
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I just wish they would release some more information about Going Rogue in general. 
50s: Silent Spy - MA/Regen Scrapper | Tinkerhell - SS/Inv Brute | Extrasensory - Psi/Men Blaster | Ana Cruz - DP/PD Corruptor | Sara Thunderbird - Elec/Elec Scrapper | Pinstrike - Spines/SR Scrapper | Cold Feet - Cold/Cold Blaster
@Silent Spy, Champion Server
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I just wish they would release some more information about Going Rogue in general.
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Agreed. However, since the intital information was released earlier than intended, it may be a while yet.
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I just wish they would release some more information about Going Rogue in general.
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Agreed. However, since the intital information was released earlier than intended, it may be a while yet.
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"Earlier than intended" only meant a few hours. They still intended to have it go up that day.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
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You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
Unlikely.
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I just wish they would release some more information about Going Rogue in general.
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Agreed. However, since the intital information was released earlier than intended, it may be a while yet.
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"Earlier than intended" only meant a few hours. They still intended to have it go up that day.
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Whoop, my bad. >_>
I never really saw an official statement on the matter, just people saying it had been put up earlier than it was meant to be.
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
Unlikely.
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What if you defect at level 5, thus never being eligible for them to begin with?
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heros are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]dont see why, most patron sets have you ticking off your patron anyhow, so really, you have learned from them a way to control a specific source of power, you dont forget calculus if you arent in school anymore(if you keep practicing it) so i dont see the issue. back a while ago, i had even suggested that heroes should be able to tap into the powers by attacking the particular enemy till you learn the source of their power.
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heros are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]dont see why, most patron sets have you ticking off your patron anyhow, so really, you have learned from them a way to control a specific source of power, you dont forget calculus if you arent in school anymore(if you keep practicing it) so i dont see the issue. back a while ago, i had even suggested that heroes should be able to tap into the powers by attacking the particular enemy till you learn the source of their power.
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yes, but if they have side switching before you get to the patron arcs, then it wouldnt make sense for a hero to run a patron arc would it?
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
Unlikely.
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What if you defect at level 5, thus never being eligible for them to begin with?
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Here is my guess on how it will work. Now if you can switch sides from level 1 and switch a Villain AT over, than you would get a APP, same if you switch a Hero AT over at level one, you'll get a PPP. Now if you switch a lvl 50 over, you'll get to keep your powers the way they are but if you do a respec, than you could chooce either a APP or PPP.
That's how I would do it but only the Devs know how they are doing it.
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
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You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
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The Patron pool powers that let you summon an Arachnos pet? How are those going to work with a 'turned good' character? You think Lord Recluse is going to let you continue to be able to summon them?
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
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The Patron pool powers that let you summon an Arachnos pet? How are those going to work with a 'turned good' character? You think Lord Recluse is going to let you continue to be able to summon them?
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They were confiscated, of course.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Patron pool powers that let you summon an Arachnos pet? How are those going to work with a 'turned good' character? You think Lord Recluse is going to let you continue to be able to summon them?
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Sure.
Every time you're summoning those spiders, they're not coming directly from Lord R signed and sealed with a kiss, they're bots you own and are calling in to help. When you left the Isles, you took them with you to put them to use for "good".
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Patron pool powers that let you summon an Arachnos pet? How are those going to work with a 'turned good' character? You think Lord Recluse is going to let you continue to be able to summon them?
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Sure.
Every time you're summoning those spiders, they're not coming directly from Lord R signed and sealed with a kiss, they're bots you own and are calling in to help. When you left the Isles, you took them with you to put them to use for "good".
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That theory doesn't work so well for all the other pets.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Patron pool powers that let you summon an Arachnos pet? How are those going to work with a 'turned good' character? You think Lord Recluse is going to let you continue to be able to summon them?
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Sure.
Every time you're summoning those spiders, they're not coming directly from Lord R signed and sealed with a kiss, they're bots you own and are calling in to help. When you left the Isles, you took them with you to put them to use for "good".
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That theory doesn't work so well for all the other pets.
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Actually, it does.
See Bob, Agent of HYDRA. 
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So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heroes are getting a set of patron powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You can have the Power Pool of a different Patron.
And once you learn their powers, becoming good makes you forget them?
Unlikely.
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What if you defect at level 5, thus never being eligible for them to begin with?
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Here is my guess on how it will work. Now if you can switch sides from level 1 and switch a Villain AT over, than you would get a APP, same if you switch a Hero AT over at level one, you'll get a PPP. Now if you switch a lvl 50 over, you'll get to keep your powers the way they are but if you do a respec, than you could chooce either a APP or PPP.
That's how I would do it but only the Devs know how they are doing it.
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Thats what i would figure... Except ancillary pools dont exist for the villain archetypes and there arent patron pools setup for heros. So that means something like 20 new power pools and 20 new patron pools.. Granted, alot of the pools can just be carbon copies of existing ones, but probably not all.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
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That theory doesn't work so well for all the other pets.
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It doesn't work well for the VEATs either, but do you really think that they're going to completely change the name of the AT to account for those who change sides because they're no longer in Arachnos?
Honestly, I doubt there will be any change to the PPP/APP system. The pools are, in and of themselves, balanced around the ATs they belong too. Creating entirely new PPP/APPs to account for villains that switch sides would be an exercise in redundancy since there are already perfectly serviceable and presumably balanced PPPs to work with. The only problems that really exist are, potentially, the pets, though, it's not entirely out of the question that you brought along or found an individual of the kind that changed sides to work with you.
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That theory doesn't work so well for all the other pets.
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It doesn't work well for the VEATs either, but do you really think that they're going to completely change the name of the AT to account for those who change sides because they're no longer in Arachnos?
Honestly, I doubt there will be any change to the PPP/APP system. The pools are, in and of themselves, balanced around the ATs they belong too. Creating entirely new PPP/APPs to account for villains that switch sides would be an exercise in redundancy since there are already perfectly serviceable and presumably balanced PPPs to work with. The only problems that really exist are, potentially, the pets, though, it's not entirely out of the question that you brought along or found an individual of the kind that changed sides to work with you.
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While the PPPs are balanced for their ATs and serviceable, it doesn't make sense that after side switching, the villains, who are now heroes, are going to go back to the Arachnos patrons and be like, "Hey, teach me more cool powers with which I can use against you in the very near future."
Ancillary pools make a bit more sense, since in theory they are just newly learned powers, I could get a heroe in the isles learning additional powers. The patron pools, not so much.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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While the PPPs are balanced for their ATs and serviceable, it doesn't make sense that after side switching, the villains, who are now heroes, are going to go back to the Arachnos patrons and be like, "Hey, teach me more cool powers with which I can use against you in the very near future."
Ancillary pools make a bit more sense, since in theory they are just newly learned powers, I could get a heroe in the isles learning additional powers. The patron pools, not so much.
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I'm actually kind of curious how they'll handle this issue. My money is on the devs simply removing the patron arc completion requirement from the PPPs, at which point they're simply using tricks they've learned from watching other villains and any patron pets they get are simply beaten into being good guys or have switched sides as well and decided to follow this villain.
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While the PPPs are balanced for their ATs and serviceable, it doesn't make sense that after side switching, the villains, who are now heroes, are going to go back to the Arachnos patrons and be like, "Hey, teach me more cool powers with which I can use against you in the very near future."
Ancillary pools make a bit more sense, since in theory they are just newly learned powers, I could get a heroe in the isles learning additional powers. The patron pools, not so much.
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I'm actually kind of curious how they'll handle this issue. My money is on the devs simply removing the patron arc completion requirement from the PPPs, at which point they're simply using tricks they've learned from watching other villains and any patron pets they get are simply beaten into being good guys or have switched sides as well and decided to follow this villain.
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That would make sense.
I would bet on carbon copies of PPPs and APPs, for analogous characters.
IE, Blasters converts get access to the Corruptor PPPs, or slightly modified versions, and Corruptors get access to blaster APPs or slightly modified versions.
They could do the same for
Brutes:Tankers
Stalkers:Scrappers
Dominators
efenders
MasterMinds:Controllers
The masterminds I know are supposed to be the villain version of Tankers, but they play closer to controllers or defenders with their powers so I think it's a little bit of a grey area. But I feel like the PPPs and APPs wouldn't have to be mofied to much to make it work for the similar AT of the other side.
They get off easy with Khelds, and I think VEATs just got the brute version of the PPPs anyway so they can get Tanker APPs and they'd be fine.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
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That theory doesn't work so well for all the other pets.
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It doesn't work well for the VEATs either, but do you really think that they're going to completely change the name of the AT to account for those who change sides because they're no longer in Arachnos?
Honestly, I doubt there will be any change to the PPP/APP system. The pools are, in and of themselves, balanced around the ATs they belong too. Creating entirely new PPP/APPs to account for villains that switch sides would be an exercise in redundancy since there are already perfectly serviceable and presumably balanced PPPs to work with. The only problems that really exist are, potentially, the pets, though, it's not entirely out of the question that you brought along or found an individual of the kind that changed sides to work with you.
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While the PPPs are balanced for their ATs and serviceable, it doesn't make sense that after side switching, the villains, who are now heroes, are going to go back to the Arachnos patrons and be like, "Hey, teach me more cool powers with which I can use against you in the very near future."
Ancillary pools make a bit more sense, since in theory they are just newly learned powers, I could get a heroe in the isles learning additional powers. The patron pools, not so much.
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On the other hand, it also doesn't make sense that heroes leaving Paragon City would suddenly forget the epic powers that they learned (without jumping through hoops) as soon as they arrive in the Rogue Isles, and have to go ask some guys to teach them how to use shields and ranged attacks again.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I just wish they would release some more information about Going Rogue in general.
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Agreed. However, since the intital information was released earlier than intended, it may be a while yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Earlier than intended" only meant a few hours. They still intended to have it go up that day.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't think so. I think it wasn't supposed to go up and was only "accidentally" released in an effort to instantly hush the civil war that was erupting over the MA debacle.
So... with side switching... does this mean that villain archetypes will get ancillary power pools? I mean, they cant really have patrons as heros can they? Likewise, does this mean that heros are getting a set of patron powers?
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.