Well, stop and think about it for a second.
When you first started playing, on your first few characters, wasn't the low level game pretty awesome back then?
I bet it was. I mean, if it wasn't, why would you have kept playing to get to this point?
It seems to me that it's just a matter of having done it before. If you think about nothing but how cool the character is going to be at 50, then yeah, leveling is gonna suck. If you think about how cool the character is NOW, it's not so bad.
Me, I'm playing ATs I've never seriously played before and having a blast with them. I have a controller in the 30s and a defender in the 40s. I never stuck with either of those ATs past level 16 or so. My controller just got his Imps and he's rockin' the house now. (He's Fire/TA, I won't roll a Fire/Kin on principle)
My defender is a Rad/Sonic and he just hit 45, so he can start doing some of the high end stuff that a Rad is useful for.
Eh, I guess what I'm saying is fun is what you make it. Players that have been around a while and are used to high level play seem to have forgotten about the parts of the game that were awesome to them when they first started.
I mean, wasn't the first time you saw Paladin stomping past you in Kings Row pretty cool?
Or the first time you accidentally Super Jumped on Lusca's head? (that was pretty funny)
Hell, when I first started playing CoH even dying was fun. All kinds of "HOLY CRAP! WTF JUST HAPPENED?!?" moments in the first 20 levels of my first character.
Then you play for a while and start to get stuck in the "gottalevelgottalevelgottalevel" mentality. Happens to everyone once in a while. I was guilty of the AE farms for a while, just like a lot of people. In my case mostly to get a few seldom played alts past levels I was having difficulty at (Kinda wish I'd gotten my SR scrapper to SOs at least 
)
Then I stepped back and thought about why I enjoy the game, and realized I enjoy the game because I just like playing it, and that the particular level I'm at just isn't that important. I'll still hop on my main and go killing Hellions in Perez, just for the hell of it, I gain nothing out of it because I already have the badge. But it's FUN
Just my $.02
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
[ QUOTE ]
That's the way it should be. I'm sick of making "speedsters" without speed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen.
I'm only a six month vet and I rankled at the thought of having to level-up my speedster, Argonaut Lambda to get SuperSpeed.
I was fortunate enough to get invited to an AE Boss farm and got Lambda up to a sufficient level for SuperSpeed in a tolerable amount of time.
I've made dozens of alts, the highest being a Level 38-ish Scrapper. A handful at high 20s, a few at low 20s and everyone else at just about Level 10. I've done the lowbie content in CoV dozens of times and I've done the Midnighter arc in Steel Canyon about three times in the last week.
I'm not sure how I feel about the grind. I'll confess to being bored at times, but if that's the case, I've got other alts I can play. Though this does mean that the majority of my stable stalls out at around Level 10.
Just last night I ran the Frostfire arc, which I haven't done in several months now. It was actually kinda refreshing.
That being said, as a six month vet, I don't think I can really complain too much about repeating content, though I've had to already due to how many alts I have.
[ QUOTE ]
...They should have just said. Welp. Waiting til 14 for travel sucks. Here... Now everyone can have travel at lvl 1.
[/ QUOTE ]
Odd. I almost always have a travel power by 6 or 7. (2 hours,more or less)
By 11 or 12, I have both the temp flight and jump packs.
and just being a little careful to turn them off when not in use, I STILL have time on both when I hit 50.
And if I know I am going to be doing several lowbie alts, I spend the $5 for the 30day rocket pack, and I DO have travel from lvl 1 for 30 days.
.
<QR>
IMO, the game starts at 22. Up until that point, it's hard to get any sort of feel for how good my characters are going to be in different situations. I think this applies double for team-oriented tankers. Also, pre-stamina, pre-SO's just sucks for kill speed and endurance management outside of a few fringe cases (shakes fist at Quick Recovery).
From the mid-20's on, that's when I really find this game enjoyable.
Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
IMO, the game starts at 22. Up until that point, it's hard to get any sort of feel for how good my characters are going to be in different situations. I think this applies double for team-oriented tankers. Also, pre-stamina, pre-SO's just sucks for kill speed and endurance management outside of a few fringe cases (shakes fist at QR).
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, I've said this a number of times over the years.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
[ QUOTE ]
I just wish there was a way to skip the 13-22 levels. 1-12 I enjoy as you're leveling up quickly, lots of new powers fast, getting used to a (usually) new powerset, digging on a new cool costume. By the time the teens roll around though, damage scaling starts kicking in for non-damage primary types, endurance becomes a serious issue, and leveling progression slows down quite noticeably. 22 with SO/IO's and Stamina picks it back up again for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed with this. Although I move it up slightly: 15-21 is the deadly part for me.
I don't know if I'd just skip it outright via a vet reward though. The age-old problem with allowing people to skip ahead is that it still leaves people stuck there, except now they're all alone too. The best way to get through boring spots is via a team, I've found, although it's not gonna work for everyone.
I like levels in games, it's why I play RPGs at all. I enjoy obvious points of progress. A level-less game is not one likely to keep me interested. Not that levels automatically make things better. I hated Guild Wars.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kinda, but now they can also take Health without Swift/Hurdle, etc. That's pretty cool in my book since I'm always tight on power picks.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought it was just travel pools, not all the pools. Am I wrong about that?
[/ QUOTE ]You're right, it's just travel powers. Stamina still requires Swift or Hurdle to be chosen first. Even if Stamina were included, the tier 4 power would still require 2 earlier choices.
[/ QUOTE ]
I said Health, not Stamina. I thought the Vet REward allowed the player to choose a Tier 2 power, like Health, at level 6 rather then 14.
Leveling Sucks = Makes me WORRY about Going Rogue
My hubby and I are like resting all our hopes >.< On Going Rogue to make this game - Not like it is now >.>
But. We will figur somethin out. And reguardless will be subbed to this game >.> Like to um. Support something I actually have loved at some points in time.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Meh, I'm a 36 month veteran
[/ QUOTE ]
It woudln't be mandatory, just an option for folks like me who wants to use it.
I think it'd be nice to let the five year vets skip a few early levels...
[/ QUOTE ]Assuming it would allow you to jump to any level up to the limit (for those who only want to skip the first few), where would you draw the line? 20? 30? 50?
Wouldn't anything less than 50 cause MORE complaining?
"I can jump to 20, but I want to get to 30!"
"Why do I have to grind the last 20 levels when I just want to get to 50?"
In AoC they are letting people who have a 50 get a free 50 if they have an open slot 
I'm gonna have to agree that the game from 1-22 can be a slog. From then to 30 it's passable, and from 30 on it's a lot more tolerable. My reasoning for this is because enhancement slots are so sparse until post 30. Personally I think that enhancement slot gain should ramp down...
Meaning we get 3 per slot level until level 30 then they taper off after that. Of course resulting in the same number at the end.
Only applies to the travel power pools.
" * Access to the following Power Pools at level 6, and can access Tier 1, 2, or 3 powers
o Flight
o Superspeed
o Teleport
o Superleap
For the 60 month veteran reward, players receive the City Traveler badge, an additional Character Slot, 5 Reward Merits, and will be able to access the Flight, Superspeed, Teleport, and Superleap Power Pools at level 6 without having to take a tier 1 or 2 power in that pool."
Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.
[ QUOTE ]
@Tripp Hazzard, mostly on Champion. Mostly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tripp, it's been bugging me for a while now. Where is that quote from?! I know it, I can hear the female voice saying it, I just can't remember what it's from!!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
[ QUOTE ]
I dont' start new characters anymore because I'm sick of the 1-22 grind.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am almost always running [u]at least[u] one lowbie, and enjoying it.
Of course, I am alternating with one or more of my higher alts at the same time.
I get bored if I am only running one alt, or only running higher alts
.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
@Tripp Hazzard, mostly on Champion. Mostly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tripp, it's been bugging me for a while now. Where is that quote from?! I know it, I can hear the female voice saying it, I just can't remember what it's from!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Aliens.
The little girl they find
"they mostly come out at night. Mostly"
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
I dont' start new characters anymore because I'm sick of the 1-22 grind.
[/ QUOTE ]
I start them but the grind from level 10-20something usually stops me.
Jer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
@Tripp Hazzard, mostly on Champion. Mostly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tripp, it's been bugging me for a while now. Where is that quote from?! I know it, I can hear the female voice saying it, I just can't remember what it's from!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Aliens.
The little girl they find
"they mostly come out at night. Mostly"
[/ QUOTE ]
AH HA!!!
Thank you, that's been bugging the crap out of me for a long time now, I haven't seen that movie in a long time so all I had was the mental recording of the voice with no reference point.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Meh, I'm a 36 month veteran
[/ QUOTE ]
It woudln't be mandatory, just an option for folks like me who wants to use it.
I think it'd be nice to let the five year vets skip a few early levels...
[/ QUOTE ]Assuming it would allow you to jump to any level up to the limit (for those who only want to skip the first few), where would you draw the line? 20? 30? 50?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be happy with level 12, for the DOs, but I'd really love 22 for SOs, although I don't really think that's reasonable. If I could start a character anywhere from 10-15 I'd be happy.
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't anything less than 50 cause MORE complaining?
"I can jump to 20, but I want to get to 30!"
"Why do I have to grind the last 20 levels when I just want to get to 50?"
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably.
In other news, I don't give a flying flock.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
Is it just me, or do most of the people who complain 1-22 is a slog have a reg date of 2005 or earlier? Not really trying to dismiss, but a lot of what I'm seeing tells me people have done the low-level game a thousand times and gotten used to the high-level game. I'm not sure I could say this is specifically BAD - things get boring eventually - but I still think the game ought to be designed to be friendly to new people, not give veterans an easy out of everything.
I'm a 57 month veteran. I signed up for this game in May of 2004, and though I skipped a couple of months when my game time cards expired, I've been here pretty much the whole way through. I don't find the low game boring. Not in the slightest. Not hero-side, not villain-side. In fact, the 1-10 game is perhaps the most fun time of a hero's career, where enemies are easy, levelling is fast and a character is still strange and unfamiliar. Up until about 20 or 30, even underperforming characters can do reasonably well. It isn't until the upper 30s and the 40s when levelling slows down a CRAWL, enemies become unfair and unreasonable peer pressure criticises your performance at every turn that the game truly becomes a boring grind. I suppose 47-50 might be considered good times again, because you have pretty much everything you're going to have and there isn't much incentive to look at levelling up as a priority.
I happen to enjoy the entire levelling process, from beginning to end. How a character changes and grows in that time is half the fun of the game, and most of the point to having progress to begin with. I can never agree with or support a change that gives people an "out" of any part of it, not unless it's a game-wide change that alters the underlying structure. I'm sorry, I just can't go with that.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I have been begging for new DEV created low level content and zones for like a year now.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no matter what game you play, you'll never escape it.
[/ QUOTE ]
But I've played games where the first 20 levels weren't soul-sucking tedium. Of course, in those games the game tended to get tedious after those levels. Surely someone, somewhere will get it right and make a game that's generally fun from level 1 to whatever the maximum level is. Or at least not an exercise in soul-sucking tedium along the way.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think the first 20 levels weren't a soul-sucking tedium the FIRST time i did it... maybe not even the second...
I'm currently running the first 20 levels for about the 30th time... >.> And, IMO, that's kind of CoX's double edged sword.
On the one side... i've NEVER played a game with this much customsion so that I could even think up 30 different personalities and builds and play them. At this point in time, hero building is more importent to me then anything else in this game.
But on the other hand, my goodness, it gets really REALLY, *REALLY* old after a while. And there isn't all that much motovation to play your guys after 50. That's why i have so many... I don't really use my 50's all that much outside of a few STF's/LRSF here and there. Or unless a tf i'm on needs something to really work. Other then that, I hit 50, i start a new project. PvP is a bust for me, Raiding the Hammi is an annoying lag fest... and MA's kind of a joke IMO. It's not my style of fun to write and make the stuff, I tried one, and published one story arch. took weeks... was a pain in the butt for me to spell and grammer check properly, as is rather evident... and after ALL that hard work, 5 people have played it... one of which was my brother... so weeks of work, for 4 dudes to check out... nah, screw it, im not that creative anyways. And honestly, i'm not alone in that reguard... >.> I haven't played all that many stories in MA that's blown my mind... like, 1 so far. Maybe 2.
So there it is. I love making alts, I just don't always love playing them too 50... >.> We need new, intresting, stuff to do in the lower levels. I'm sorry, MA isn't cutting it. The quality is lacking, as is excpected, I mean, creative and talanted are rare, that's why we all aren't playwrites or rock stars, or some such.
And besides, even though Posi laid down the law... people still farm the crap out of it... so even getting a content team running is like pulling teeth..
MA = fail. Give us some real lowbiee content so making alts isn't so painful. 
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me, or do most of the people who complain 1-22 is a slog have a reg date of 2005 or earlier? Not really trying to dismiss, but a lot of what I'm seeing tells me people have done the low-level game a thousand times and gotten used to the high-level game. I'm not sure I could say this is specifically BAD - things get boring eventually - but I still think the game ought to be designed to be friendly to new people, not give veterans an easy out of everything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yar, 45-month vet here, so I suppose I fit into that classification. I agree, the low-level game should be friendly for new players. But I wouldn't be opposed to alternate starting areas that are specifically more vet-friendly (no idea how this would work) or being able to skip levels as a vet reward.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a 57 month veteran. I signed up for this game in May of 2004, and though I skipped a couple of months when my game time cards expired, I've been here pretty much the whole way through. I don't find the low game boring. Not in the slightest. Not hero-side, not villain-side. In fact, the 1-10 game is perhaps the most fun time of a hero's career, where enemies are easy, levelling is fast and a character is still strange and unfamiliar.
[/ QUOTE ]
My experiences tend to be different. The fast leveling is kinda fun, but other than that, I don't particularly enjoy the lack of powers or slots. I also like to fight more challenging enemies, but that's neither rewarding nor fun in the lower levels when your choices are Vahz (slooooooows) or CoT (spectrals).
[ QUOTE ]
Up until about 20 or 30, even underperforming characters can do reasonably well. It isn't until the upper 30s and the 40s when levelling slows down a CRAWL, enemies become unfair and unreasonable peer pressure criticises your performance at every turn that the game truly becomes a boring grind. I suppose 47-50 might be considered good times again, because you have pretty much everything you're going to have and there isn't much incentive to look at levelling up as a priority.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is my favorite range. Yes, the leveling is slower, but I don't think it's too slow. You have your necessary tools, and you can start pushing your character's limits. I suppose I'm not as subject to the pressures of others... I mostly team with others in a private global channel, many of which love making concept characters. I tend to be one of the min/maxers of the group, so it's pretty rare when a build or power choice of mine gets scrutinized. My characters get the far majority of their playing time once they've reached level 50. There is nothing more fun for me than playing a character at the pinnacle of their effectiveness and seeing what kind of crazy *bleep* I can do with them.
[ QUOTE ]
I happen to enjoy the entire levelling process, from beginning to end. How a character changes and grows in that time is half the fun of the game, and most of the point to having progress to begin with. I can never agree with or support a change that gives people an "out" of any part of it, not unless it's a game-wide change that alters the underlying structure. I'm sorry, I just can't go with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoy a significant portion of the levels in the game, but the early game I just get tired of. Our opinions differ on changing the early game for vets, and that's okay. 
Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.
I'm one of the few the actually prefers playing redside, and it's true that the early levels are awful.
CoH at least has more options, depending on origin, or if you're tired of that, you can do some sewer runs.
Snakes and Infected? Bleh.
Learn modesty, if you desire knowledge. A highland would never be irrigated by river." (Kanz ol-Haghayegh)
[ QUOTE ]
I'm one of the few the actually prefers playing redside, and it's true that the early levels are awful.
CoH at least has more options, depending on origin, or if you're tired of that, you can do some sewer runs.
Snakes and Infected? Bleh.
[/ QUOTE ]
No kidding. Especially snakes. Wayy too many snakes.
I just wish there was a way to skip the 13-22 levels. 1-12 I enjoy as you're leveling up quickly, lots of new powers fast, getting used to a (usually) new powerset, digging on a new cool costume. By the time the teens roll around though, damage scaling starts kicking in for non-damage primary types, endurance becomes a serious issue, and leveling progression slows down quite noticeably. 22 with SO/IO's and Stamina picks it back up again for me.
.
Its not really that bad though. And despite the recent protestations of the Devs over AE farming, I really don't think they would have a problem with people who want to farm their way up to 22ish to avoid the low level slog and then continue "normal" progression after that. Its the 1-50 in five hours that they take issue with. At least thats what I'm telling myself
Point being, i14 brough new and easier ways to avoid the low levels if you find them tedious. AE farms are definitely boring as hell, but 2-3 hours of boring as hell is better than 15-20 hours of tedious as hell.