Power Pools: New Pool Powers!... Kinda
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2009-06-24 02:02 in Suggestions and Ideas
Let the pointing and laughing replies hereby commence!
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.Driver Sweeper * CohHelper * HijackThis * TweakCoH * CPU-ID
* Defraggler * Program Security Scan * PC Performance Scan *
That would just mean more power pool powers I'd have to squeeze in. Probably in lieu of travel powers.
And in other news, boxers do a lot of running and other fitness training to give them the stamina to fight for more rounds without tiring as fast.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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To me, fitness doesn't necessarily mean stamina, at least, not in the sense that the actual power invokes universally. when you're fit you can run and move faster, jump higher, and hit harder due to your excessive physical training.
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Wait...wait wait wait. You don't think that Stamina fits in thematically with Fitness?
Stamina means being able to perform strenuous activity longer. I would wager a lot of money on a runner not being able to run a marathon unless he has Stamina. I would wager a lot of money against a boxer without Stamina, because he's not going to be punching for long. If Lance Armstrong didn't have Stamina, he wouldn't have won those Tours de France.
When you train for running, you can train to run faster (sprinters), or train for stamina (distance runners). And even those who train for sprinting tend to gain some stamina in the process.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
/no for the new pool power
But you do bring up some interesting points. Stamina has the stigma of being 'required.' Can you play without it? Sure! But your play style must fit that.
I know this isn't possible, nor would this ever get into the game, but I would like to see a clickable abilities added to these auto powers.
For example: If you click swift, you get a 5 second 100% recharge (Like the proc from the knockback set). Give it a moderate recharge - maybe 1 minute? Also, allow it to not be enhanced by recharge powers or recharge enhancers (Similar to the tier 9 of Willpower)
Hurdle: Thematically, I can't think of anything creative to put here. Perhaps a 10 second jumpjet with a long recharge. This could allow for more SuperSpeed only builds without the stress of hopping over larger hills
Heath: I would just make clicking health be like clicking a green Insp - Give it a recharge of 2 minutes
Stamina: Same as health, but a blue insp would be used instead. Give it the same recharge time, but make it a tier 2 blue because its the higher level power.
Anyways, would I ever want development time spent on this? Not really, I just thought it would be a fun idea.
lrn2slot ^_^
Splitting Fitness=not going to happen. However, I like this:
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I would like to see a clickable abilities added to these auto powers.
For example: If you click swift, you get a 5 second 100% recharge (Like the proc from the knockback set). Give it a moderate recharge - maybe 1 minute? Also, allow it to not be enhanced by recharge powers or recharge enhancers (Similar to the tier 9 of Willpower)
Hurdle: Thematically, I can't think of anything creative to put here. Perhaps a 10 second jumpjet with a long recharge. This could allow for more SuperSpeed only builds without the stress of hopping over larger hills
Heath: I would just make clicking health be like clicking a green Insp - Give it a recharge of 2 minutes
Stamina: Same as health, but a blue insp would be used instead. Give it the same recharge time, but make it a tier 2 blue because its the higher level power.
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It would be nice to do something to make those powers 'those boring things you spend six levels straight picking up.'
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Speed - Increased Global Recharge 15% (auto power) available at level 20
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A level 20 pool power that gives the same recharge boost as not one but two Luck of the Gambler: Global Recharge...
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Stamina - Recovery 20% - available level 14
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...and Stamina available 6 levels earlier.
/No.
Stamina is a very useful power, but I think a lot of the people who want it sooner need to slot some endred DOs and stop trying to play their pre-20 characters like they would an IO'd up 50, and the OP, like most Stamina related suggestions, is stupidly overpowered.
Once again it comes up, and once again I'll say no.
I would like to see something done about the pre-20 endurance situation. I don't find those levels fun because of it. However, I'm realistic enough to realize that it'll probably never happen. The devs (and a significant fraction of the players it seems as well) disagree with me that it's a problem.
wow, a surprisingly large amount of negative feedback. perhaps i shouldn't have used stamina as a "catch phrase" to draw in attention to the actual suggestion, which in fact IS NOT BASED AROUND STAMINA...
I made stamina a bit of a centerpoint with my references and title, so i suppose thats what i get. guess it's a more touchy subject than i thought.
the main reason for this idea is to provide more build options. some people go for +dam builds, some for +recovery or +recharge and even +health. some go for more than one or even all those things.
some people would like to have the option of getting 2 LotG's worth of recharge by sacrificing a couple powers instead of spending 200-300 million they dont have at the market, and then finding a defense power they don't have just to slot them in. tell me, how many people take extra powers they dont need (or in some cases even want) in order to accomplish those +recharge builds, or any build for that matter?
let's put up a vague example build here using a bit of combiniation with these powers. normally i go with superspeed because i like the +recharge from hasten and i don't care for wasting extra powers that pull me out of the main power selections unless it's a planned part of my build or will help me acheive something i want in the build.
for this build i don't want to use stamina, i want +recharge and +damage bonuses so i can focus my slotting more on end reduction and secondary effects without feeling completely gimped.
now along with super speed, i normally take hurdle (or in some cases combat jumping) because it makes for getting around easier. now that i have hurdle, i can take "Power" from the changed pool listed above and buff my damage output a little, at some point i'll most likely grab Assault from the leadership pool also.
now i already have hurdle and power, so "Speed" is available and i can stack that with hasten to increase my DPA a bit more. now as i level i can focus on sets that give +dam and +recharge (without going into LotG's), and basically forego those type of enhancements in favor of one's that offer end reduction, buff the secondary effects of my powers, and accuracy. for example, i could prioritize the use of an enhancement that is Acc/End/Stun instead of Acc/Dam/Rech.
Alternately, something like a tanker may be building for something like +health bonuses, but still need end control and doesn't want to take stamina for whatever reason. The health pool can give the regen bonus from health, and the +5% health increase from Durability, then perhaps instead of stamina they'll take Vigor, offering a 10% reduction in end cost in order to help their endurance slotting.
alternately, someone with say Dark Armor, which is a very end heavy set, would have the option of getting stamina at 14, albeit with slightly reduced performance, it would make managing endurance less of a chore given the relatively low bonuses from enhancements at those levels.
most builds that run without stamina (that i've seen) try to make up that loss in set bonuses and end reductions. this is just adding another venue to accomplish similar goals in different ways. often you need to make large sacrifices in other set bonuses to get +Endurance and +Recovery bonuses out of the sets, and the main reason people will do that is so they can slot more damage etc. into a power rather than more end reductions. This could give the option to make power sacrifices instead of set bonuses and still accomplish the same goal...
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That would just mean more power pool powers I'd have to squeeze in. Probably in lieu of travel powers.
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possibly if you WANT all these different powers, but you certainly wouldn't NEED to choose any, power pools are completely OPTIONAL.
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And in other news, boxers do a lot of running and other fitness training to give them the stamina to fight for more rounds without tiring as fast.
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that may be true, and there are also other boxers who do strength training in order to take out their opponent as fast as possibly without using a great deal of stamina... see Mike Tyson for more info.
again, this is to offer more options for building and discussion as to what people think would be fair to increase our options.
as i stated in the original post, THESE SUGGESTIONS WERE NOT SET IN STONE. it was an idea off the top of my head and IT DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND GETTING STAMINA EARLIER. so for all the stamina "haters" out there, please don't flame my thread on the basis that it's a suggestion that INVOLVES stamina, because that seems to be the general consensus so far.
for those who said it would be overpowered, what would you feel to be acceptable in terms of bonuses from these powers? do you have any suggestions on improvement, or were your rebuttals simply to disregard the idea in it's entirety?
for those who don't know, health normally gives 40% regen unslotted and stamina is 25% end recovery unslotted. I reduced those numbers to 35% and 20% respectively, given the nature of the additional powers and the fact that they are (health and stamina) available earlier on. if this seems to be too much of a buff still, please make a suggestion on what you think would be acceptable at these levels?
Thanks for your input!
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I would like to see something done about the pre-20 endurance situation. I don't find those levels fun because of it. However, I'm realistic enough to realize that it'll probably never happen. The devs (and a significant fraction of the players it seems as well) disagree with me that it's a problem.
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The fact is, it CAN be a problem. the problem is mostly dependant on power selection and slotting. it is not an absolute problem because some players know through experience or even luck, what works and what doesn't, in addition to knowing how to slot.
The problem is that not everyone has that luxury, and especially new players have difficulties learning how to slot and build characters.
some builds have the clout to be somewhat exceptional nearly regardless of slotting, provided you take a few key powers and everyone is made aware of those powers through some means. Stamina is one of those powers, it makes learning to slot more of an issue because people think if they take it then end problems will be solved and there's no reason to slot a power for end unless it's particularly heavy in use.
The fact is, granting stamina at an earlier level will help with the low game for newer players, and possibly even vets... who seemingly just want to get past the "boring" 1st 20 or so levels before stamina. I can't count the number of times i've heard people say they farm or PL to the 20s for the post-stamina game where it starts to be "fun".
the first 10 levels are nothing, i can do that in an hour or so just running regular missions, so the main problem seems to be the 10-20ish range. i don't see a problem putting stamina almost dead in the middle of that range with a lesser recovery rate to help ease those levels.
reducing it's buff slightly will make it somewhat less effective in higher levels, thereby prompting people to lrn2slot and find another means to manage endurance. all the while helping the low-end game. the mid to end game already has many powers that restore endurance, making stamina less of a necessity at those levels. nearly every set or Patron/APP has an option for an end restoring power at some point.
If they're going to fiddle with the power pools at all, I would prefer to see them contain more options bigger pools, rather than more small ones.
Some options:
Tier 1. Hurdle combined with Swift; Health.
Tier 2. Stamina.
Tier 3. Recharge rate auto power.
or...
Tier 1. Hurdle, add a small auto +Damage; Swift, add a small auto +Recharge.
Tier 2. Health, add a small auto +Resist.
Tier 3. Stamina, add a small auto mez resistance (not mez immunity).
or...
Tier 1. Hurdle; Swift.
Tier 2. Health; Stamina.
Tier 3. Auto +Recharge; auto +Damage.
Personally I don't care about Stamina one way or another. I almost never take it. I would love for people to stop whining about their Endurance and learn how to slot but of course, the fact that slotting for Endurance isn't sexy, and learning to conserve isn't easy, shows there may be some endurance-balance issues still to fix.
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I would like to see something done about the pre-20 endurance situation. I don't find those levels fun because of it. However, I'm realistic enough to realize that it'll probably never happen. The devs (and a significant fraction of the players it seems as well) disagree with me that it's a problem.
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The fact is, it CAN be a problem. the problem is mostly dependant on power selection and slotting. it is not an absolute problem because some players know through experience or even luck, what works and what doesn't, in addition to knowing how to slot.
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The real problem is that you can't really effectively slot for everything you need to at low levels. I know it's best to slot for endurance reduction and accuracy, and ignore recharge and damage before SO levels. However, most of the time, I simply don't have enough slots in my powers to slot for enough accuracy and endurance reduction to make me happy.
And I'm definitely NOT in favor of giving stamina earlier if it means reducing the benefit.
Like I said, I don't expect it to change, I just don't find dealing with endurance issues to be at all a fun part of the game. I would be perfectly happy if they removed the concept of endurance altogether.
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I would like to see something done about the pre-20 endurance situation.
[/ QUOTE ] Slot better.
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I would like to see something done about the pre-20 endurance situation.
[/ QUOTE ] Slot better.
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^
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Try the blue looking enhancement, it lowers endurance costs!
Lies
I know, right?
If you're going to change Hurdle, it'd be fun to give it +Double Jump instead. Like the GvE jumpjet, but only for one extra jump before you have to touch down again. Not that useful, but fun.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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I know, right?
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There's also these magic inspiration things you can use to fix brief endurance black outs.
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There's also these magic inspiration things you can use to fix brief endurance black outs.
[/ QUOTE ] Great, now you're making [censored] up too!
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I would like to see something done about the pre-20 endurance situation.
[/ QUOTE ] Slot better.
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I'm well aware of the necessity of slotting endurance reduction early on, as well as using blue inspirations.
Like I said in my earlier post, I feel like neither of these options is enough. Dealing with a lack of endurance does not make the game more fun for me. I also don't regard it as a challenge. It just slows things down and makes the pre-20 levels boring.
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I would like to see something done about the pre-20 endurance situation.
[/ QUOTE ] Slot better.
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I'm well aware of the necessity of slotting endurance reduction early on, as well as using blue inspirations.
Like I said in my earlier post, I feel like neither of these options is enough. Dealing with a lack of endurance does not make the game more fun for me. I also don't regard it as a challenge. It just slows things down and makes the pre-20 levels boring for me .
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fixed.
I don't find the pre-20 levels boring. I also don't seem to run out of Endurance as fast as you either.
I guess my system has a different set of physics than yours which means the Devs think I'm awesome. 
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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If you're going to change Hurdle, it'd be fun to give it +Double Jump instead.
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Unless you have the Sandman equipped.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
EDIT: Originally i was going for splitting the current fitness pool and adding in new powers to subsidize and add more options for different builds...
as a last minute consideration, i realize now that actually splitting the fitness pool would be unfeasable due to the fact there are so many builds with stamina and those builds needed to take swift or hurdle first, so what would happen to them? ... i really can't believe i didn't think of this before, (furthermore i can't beleive no one else said it).
but as i said in the original (unedited) post.. it was an off the top of my head idea. (with minimal sleep i might add)
Alternate to the original idea, which seems to have people up in arms so far in another "stamina this... stamina that... lrn2slot" debate...
another pool could be added consisting of something similar to the new powers mentioned, thereby leaving the Fitness pool as is...
powers would go something as follows:
Power -Increased Global Damage 5% (auto power) available at level 6
Durability - Hitpoints +5%, Mez Resist: Stun 20% -available level 6
Vigor - Self Endurance Discount 10% (auto), Debuff Resistance: Endurance 20% - available level 14 {note- this power's effects would not be stackable with powers like Conserve Power}
Speed - Increased Global Recharge 15% (auto power) available at level 20