CoX what are some "skills" involved in this game?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-17 13:42 in Player Questions
Skill Schmill. My 53-year-old mother could play this game, and she don't even play games. All I have to teach her is what buttons to press and when.
"Hey, Ma. You down for a MoSTF? I know we just ran one last week, but it's that or the ITF for the thousanth time."
My 54 year old mother does play this game, and my 55 year old dad. My dad was the one that got me into the game during CoH beta. 
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My 54 year old mother does play this game, and my 55 year old dad. My dad was the one that got me into the game during CoH beta.
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Well, I was being sarcastic, but good on your folks
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First of we have to define what skill is.
Apparently, you don't think that strategic skills or tactical skills are skills.
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Cuz we all know, Chess requires NO SKILL at all. 
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A successful pull drags one or two enemies that are on a fringe of a group away from the rest of the "mob" to another location where the team can ambush them.
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Slight terminology pet peeve:
1 single foe = Mob (short for "Mobile". This term comes from early MUD games)
a group of foes = Spawn
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Players tend to hate energy/energy blasters because of their power sets knockback. It takes skill to utilize the power set so that the set's knockback is an advantage to the team instead of a disadvantage. You can use blaster energy attack skillfully to "control" mobs in the same way that hurricane can - if you know how, are skillful in your targeting, and can time the right time to activate your attacks.
I can keep going. I don't think it is necessary. I've proved my point on these situations.
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Using the right powers at the right time in the right way under the right conditions and knowing how to do all that is definitely a skill.
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It definitely takes skill to make a complex base.
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Oh gawd yes.
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If you are able to do that and don't think it takes skill to accomplish it, I applaud your skill in evasion.
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I see wut you did thar.
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I think that good CoX players are very skillful at adaptation. They learn how to use different power sets and archetypes to blend in with ever-changing team compositions to fight foes with varied powers.
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Yep. When a team runs into a tough nut, the team will often need to stop to discuss tactics and plans for tackling the big bad. If someone drops the ball in doing their job then the whole team can be in trouble. Thats a clear sign of how skill can make or break a team.
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I've played "twitch" games before. I've played snipers to head shot opponents. I've played game where I had a button to push in order to block.
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I still do! And those are all a different kind of skill.
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Calling into play this disparity, how much do you think hardware goes towards "skill" in a "twitch game" versus player abilities?
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It honestly depends on the game. There's plenty of twitch games that don't require much in the way of hardware and hardware doesn't matter very much in the end equation (i.e. the NCSoft title Exteel for example, which I play occasionally).
If the game engine is limiting you to only being so fast, and the graphics are lite enough for most hardware to handle, a faster controller or peppier processor or a bigger screen is only going to give you so much, and really it's not likely to be all that much.
A better mouse, keyboard, or controller isn't going to make you a better player by itself in those games. What they may do is make it so that you can hit the buttons faster by letting you customize a bit more where those buttons are so as it speed your response time. But a skilled player with the generic keyboard and mouse that came with their computer certainly can still kick your sorry butt.
My Saitek Cyborg Command Unit game pad has sped up my game by putting the keys I need to press the most often right under my left hand, and yeah that makes the game more comfortable for me to play, but it didn't turn me into a superstar overnight.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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It's all about knowing your enemy, knowing what your guy can do, and having a good feel for recharge times, damage, resistances.
Any good CoX player can figure out almost exactly what he can and cannot do.
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Though there is a significant rush in the "almost" part of that equation. Standing there with a pile of defeated opponents littering the ground and a sliver of health left, thinking "I didn't really expect that to work."
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Those are indeed great moments. "I can't believe I pulled that off!"
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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I'll go one farther on prioritizing.
For Controller/Dominator/Defender types I would say that Juggling is an important skill. Not the practice of throwing things in the air and catching them smoothly, but the skill of switching from target to target in a fight keeping holds, slows, debuffs, ect. running where they will do the most good.
For example: Sleep target A, Dominate Target B, Confuse Target C repeat as needed so that your teammates with better damage capability can focus on offense instead of self defense.
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I call that "Plates on Sticks", because it's kinda like being this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpjj5...eature=related
I think he goes into Domination Mode around 7:22
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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wow lots of neat info in this thread! Thanks guys. I guess I always had the term "skill" to singled out to what is called "twitch" games. I never knew befor. CoX does involve skill at which I apperently have been using the whole time but oblivious to it from misunderstanding the term.
I really didn't appreciate how some people sounded so mean, but thats the internet I suppose! Thanks for the insight, I realized and learned a whole new perspective on CoX.
I think having a better understanding of the game is a key to improving your performance in-game. Once you know what powers make a good build, what strengths and weaknesses your enemies and allies have, you can take advantage of that. And if you have the brains and patience to figure out IO sets and min/max a bit, you'll probably improve... probably.
Do you have skill?
Open book test, one question. This is the book.
A solo SR scrapper, out of Elude, with all secondary powers (no tough/weave/combat jump, just the secondary) slotted to ED levels (call it 55% enhancement) is being attacked by a +2 Council Archon just after being shot with a Machine Gun (7.5% Defense Debuff).
What is the critter's chance to hit?
Bonus question: The scrapper takes a shot back with Crane Kick, slotted for 33% Accuracy, on a standard Council Archon. What is the scrapper's chance to hit?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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If you really want a "skill" challenge make a hero and keep it level 1 - with no xp. Use Sprint only to get from Atlas to Portal Corps Peregrine Island without using the trains, pocket d teleporter, mission tp'r, sk'ing, any team mates, etc.
It can be done, I've done it several times. I know other players that have done it. I was in a race that was based on this premise.
If you are able to do that and don't think it takes skill to accomplish it, I applaud your skill in evasion.
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The Blaster Marathon! That was fun, I have to say.
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I ran it by myself solo a couple of times.
Then I was in one of the "Naked Noob" races ...I think it was on Pinnacle or Protector. I can't remember. I remember forking out loot for the winner on another server where they had a character because the event runner didn't have any loot on the other server. It was over a year ago, maybe even two.
These things come and go from time to time. I think there was another one recently somewhere. Was that perhaps "the Blaster Marathon" of which you speak?
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One of the coalition allies for my former SG hosted the first run I did of that course. The rules were that you had to use a level 1 blaster, and no powers other than sprint. We were all blasters to make sure everyone was on equal footing for HP and had no defensive powers.
I didn't complete it successfully in my first attempt (the Tsoo kept getting me in IP right at the Brickstown gate and I gave up in frustration after the ninth death) so the next night I went back in and ran it while chatting with someone in-game who was monitoring my progress. Made it through without dying that time, amazingly enough.
Now THAT was a feeling of accomplishment, weaving through all of those zones as a level one blaster and surviving all the way through (in order) Galaxy, KR, Pocket D, Faultline (to Jim Tremblor on the way), Skyway, Atlas, Steel, IP, Bricks (to the hospital door and then up to the green line), Croatoa (to War Witch and back to the green line), Founders, Pocket D, Talos (to the Ferry), and then to Portal Corps in PI, all while staying out of the water. Took about an hour, for no reward, and it was a hell of a good time hoping snipers, Red Caps, etc wouldn't take me out.
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
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Do you have skill?
Open book test, one question. This is the book.
A solo SR scrapper, out of Elude, with all secondary powers (no tough/weave/combat jump, just the secondary) slotted to ED levels (call it 55% enhancement) is being attacked by a +2 Council Archon just after being shot with a Machine Gun (7.5% Defense Debuff).
What is the critter's chance to hit?
Bonus question: The scrapper takes a shot back with Crane Kick, slotted for 33% Accuracy, on a standard Council Archon. What is the scrapper's chance to hit?
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42 
Arcanaville's classes would count for AP credit in most school districts.
Yar, about the only twitch skill this game has is seeing that Freak Tank about to lop the blaster's head off out of the corner of your eye, and being able to respond in time with the appropriate action.
Victory: @Brimstone Bruce
Brimstone Bruce (lvl50 Stone/Fire Tanker) Broadside Bruce (lvl50 Shield/WM Tanker)
Ultionis (lvl50 Dark/Dark Defender) Cortex Crusher (lvl50 Mind/Kin Controller)
Patronox (lvl50 Kat/Dark Scrapper) Harbinger Mk.7 (lvl50 Bots/FF MM)
NightShift for Life.
More tactics than anything. Honestly, there isn't much that will really test your tactical ability though. But in the case of doing intensely difficult things in this game, it takes a surprising amount of thinking on your feet to survive.
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
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Do you have skill?
Open book test, one question. This is the book.
A solo SR scrapper, out of Elude, with all secondary powers (no tough/weave/combat jump, just the secondary) slotted to ED levels (call it 55% enhancement) is being attacked by a +2 Council Archon just after being shot with a Machine Gun (7.5% Defense Debuff).
What is the critter's chance to hit?
Bonus question: The scrapper takes a shot back with Crane Kick, slotted for 33% Accuracy, on a standard Council Archon. What is the scrapper's chance to hit?
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Enough. Or pop that yellow that just dropped off the penumbra.
@Mechaniker
Official Old Angry German Guy of CoV.
My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787
There are all sorts of skills associated with CoX, but they are all considerably more subtle than the ability to the skills needed to throw a perfect spiral.
There are skills associated with power choice and use, skills relating to teamwork, and skills associated with targeting, but none of them are as glamorous as a Fireball Motion.
I think there's also something to be said about efficiency. I can tell if a player is skilled and experienced by their use of inspirations, for example. Timing for Build Up, Aim, and other similar powers is also a skill.
But more universally, there's a skill associated with knowing where to direct your attacks while on teams. How many times have you attacked an enemy with a big attack, and realized that it was dead before your attack even hit. How often have you used Transfusion on an enemy as it died, and it's effect didn't go off. How many times have you healed one of your Mastermind's minions, only to have another one in more end up dying.
The game if full of these sorts of things and avoiding those common pitfalls is definitely a skill.
Nunchuck skills... bowhunting skills... computer hacking skills... Girls only want Hellions who have great skills.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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My 54 year old mother does play this game, and my 55 year old dad. My dad was the one that got me into the game during CoH beta.
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I am several years older than your folks - so just as glad my own physical resources are not that big a concern in playing this.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
Skills:
Organization and Plannning
Hey BMT of Champion, let's ITF. I need such and such, bring such and such a level. Bull through here, slower here.
This is how we are doing the Master STF/LRSF run, please read closely...
Reactive and Intuitive Skills
Do you try for the clean pull? Overaggro, what do you do? Which group do you get first?
"Twitch" skills
Not much of these, but they still exist in PvP somewhat, in evading, knowing when to phase/Hibernate, team spiking on targets, etc.
None of this will buy you a coffee at your local diner, but there is some element of skill involved.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
I still think game knowledge is one of the most important parts. Knowing what your powers do, let alone what those of your allies and enemies can do, is fundamental into using them properly, and forming successful tactics and adapting to changing situations.
Game experience also helps. Task Forces are much easier with people who have done them before. There's a reason people look down on powerlevellers, especially newbie ones.
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A successful pull drags one or two enemies that are on a fringe of a group away from the rest of the "mob" to another location where the team can ambush them.
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Slight terminology pet peeve:
1 single foe = Mob (short for "Mobile". This term comes from early MUD games)
a group of foes = Spawn
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Maybe elsewhere. This is CoX.
Mob = a gang of PvE enemies - an entire grouping of enemies. (ie. "I think we were fighting more than one mob." - I can't count how many times that I've seen this in chat.)
Spawn = A character created by Todd McFarlane - http://www.spawn.com/comics/series.aspx?series_id=35
I think learning to play a /storm toon (which is my fave) req's some of the most talent and/or common sense. Or possibly managing endurance on a spines/dark scrapper. (which i can't really do. even with 2 and 3 end.red.'s in the toggles and stamina 3 slotted.)
I'm really not that sure that much "skills" are required for this game. Since this game is balanced around SOs, often a well-geared party can just bulldoze through TFs without any consideration for strategy. Things just die so fast, even at the max difficulty setting, that it doesn't matter who's in what position. Also, since XP debt means absolutely nothing once you hit 50, there's really no significant punishment for dying.
You would almost have to specifically set up certain situations just to be challenged.
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A successful pull drags one or two enemies that are on a fringe of a group away from the rest of the "mob" to another location where the team can ambush them.
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Slight terminology pet peeve:
1 single foe = Mob (short for "Mobile". This term comes from early MUD games)
a group of foes = Spawn
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Maybe elsewhere. This is CoX.
Mob = a gang of PvE enemies - an entire grouping of enemies. (ie. "I think we were fighting more than one mob." - I can't count how many times that I've seen this in chat.)
Spawn = A character created by Todd McFarlane - http://www.spawn.com/comics/series.aspx?series_id=35
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Actually as far as the way I've seen these terms used in game:
mob = a single enemy or multiple enemies, depending on context and the person using it.
spawn = a single enemy or multiple enemies, depending on context and the person using it.
Spawn = one of the worst comic book movies ever made or one of the best Animated series ever created.
That's why I generally just use the terms "enemy" or "group". It's just more straight forward and obvious that way.
Plus it can be spoken in character that way when RPing, whereas the words mob or spawn break character because you're referencing game mechanics.
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I'm really not that sure that much "skills" are required for this game. Since this game is balanced around SOs, often a well-geared party can just bulldoze through TFs without any consideration for strategy. Things just die so fast, even at the max difficulty setting, that it doesn't matter who's in what position. Also, since XP debt means absolutely nothing once you hit 50, there's really no significant punishment for dying.
You would almost have to specifically set up certain situations just to be challenged.
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Well, you are talking about players not using skill.
That doesn't mean that others can't be using skills.
It just means that you are admitting that the bull-in-the-china-shop method of play is not skillful --- and I agree with that entirely.
Not everyone is running a level 50....at least they weren't tonight when I was running a team.
Try playing on invincible in a police mission in King Row at level 5 and get back to me about how easy you plow through content on the lowest level - and, no, you can't have level 50's along with you. Solo it or run it with a team of level 5s or lower.
There is a punishment for debt at level 50 -- your inf is cut in half until you work off the xp debt.
Considering the way players farm at that level, maybe there should be harsher punishments for xp Debt at level 50. No drops until you work of your debt would be a good start - maybe even doubling or tripling the debt you get for falling at level 50...hmmm....say, maybe that is actually going in the right direction due to multiple reasons...
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If you really want a "skill" challenge make a hero and keep it level 1 - with no xp. Use Sprint only to get from Atlas to Portal Corps Peregrine Island without using the trains, pocket d teleporter, mission tp'r, sk'ing, any team mates, etc.
It can be done, I've done it several times. I know other players that have done it. I was in a race that was based on this premise.
If you are able to do that and don't think it takes skill to accomplish it, I applaud your skill in evasion.
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The Blaster Marathon! That was fun, I have to say.
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I ran it by myself solo a couple of times.
Then I was in one of the "Naked Noob" races ...I think it was on Pinnacle or Protector. I can't remember. I remember forking out loot for the winner on another server where they had a character because the event runner didn't have any loot on the other server. It was over a year ago, maybe even two.
These things come and go from time to time. I think there was another one recently somewhere. Was that perhaps "the Blaster Marathon" of which you speak?