Guess we all get horrible team mates sometime...
By
Acyl,
Posted on: 2009-06-15 04:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Heh, seems like it's alot of Tankers that provide the bad experiences...
Was on a Hero PuG mission - map was that instanced 'Pipes and Scaffolding' stuff from Cape Diablo. Our Tanker kept telling us to wait at certain positions, but not so he could just 'herd'? Oh no, he also had Stealth and he'd 'scout' to get the 'enemy layout' of an area before herding. We'd all be sitting on some stairwell or something doing 'Zzzzzz' or "HmmmHmmm" emotes. Finally he'd say something like, "I'm herding a group to the 2nd tower. That's your checkpoint. Everyone move now!"
Once one player dared to engage a foe before 'Tanker approval'. Tanker belittled him: 'Son, that's the kind of mistake a complete amateur would make. You have to follow the plan.'
I think this guy was a former marine, perhaps...
I and a couple others started openly making fun of him, using military terms and jokes. 10 minutes later he quits and we start having fun again...
Godwinned at eight pages. Not too bad.
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Godwinned at eight pages. Not too bad.
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So, Hitler started the Holocost because someone PLed him to lance corporal in WWI?
That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
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Herding tanks drive me batty.
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I'd like to suggest a change to that: bad herding tanks drive me batty.
When I play my tanks, I herd. I do this mainly because I find it the best way to actually tank since I'm not nor have I ever been a fan of taking Taunt (though I'm reconsidering this now that Taunt has -range), but I also don't expect the group to stop and wait for me to actually herd. I'm proactive. I don't wait for the entire group to be dead before I go and herd up the next group (which also prevents group splits because everyone knows I'll be exactly where they need to head by the time they need to choose). I wait for enough stragglers to be standing around that it will take enough time for the rest of the team to clear the group for me to get the next group nice and huddled up. I generally operate 1 group at a time as well, but that's mostly because I run on diffs 2 and 4 with 8 man teams (re: I live at the aggro cap). The only time a herding tank slows a group down is if it's a bad herding tank, at which point you'd be better served by just having him/her jump in.
A few weeks ago I was in the Rikti War Zone when some folks started organizing a ship raid. Snuffy (not his real name) puts together the first team, but for some reason decides that he doesn't want the star. So the star gets passed to another player. Then *he* doesn't want the star, so it goes back to Snuffy, then to another player, then to yet another! So I jokingly say in team chat, "Oooh, I haven't had the star yet!" So I get the star. Didn't really want it, but it's a ship raid -- not like I have to do anything other than follow the other teams and shoot Rikti.
The raid starts, and Snuffy is acting like he's in charge. That's fine at first, because you need someone that knows what they're doing to coordinate the teams on the pylon attacks. But once the shields drop and we're on the ship, it continues. He keeps shouting for us to plant bombs, to push towards the center of the ship, to go get our exploration badge, to kill the big boss, all of which we're trying to do, but it just wasn't going our way on this raid. We're faceplanting left and right, and before you know it the shields are back up and we never made it to the center of the ship.
Back at the base, he starts ripping into everyone about how they weren't following his directions, how we needed to get to the center of the ship, etc, etc. While he's ranting I quit the team but remained on site. Someone suggests giving it another go, and suddenly this guy barks at me, "Send out invites or pass the star." Yeah, this from the guy that didn't want the star to begin with. I say, "I'm not even on the team anymore," and fly off. As I'm heading back to the Vanguard base, Snuffy sends me two team invites, which I refuse.
Once the second attempt gets under way, I join another team and have fun.
Learn something new everyday. All this time I've been playing with some really good tanks and never knew that "herding" was the term for what they do so well.
I've not had the experience of waiting for the tank to lead the herd to the rest of the team. Instead, most times the tank is way out ahead of the team and pretty much does exactly as Umbral described.
As a matter of fact, this seems to be fit in with the tactics I've seen in both my SG teams and PuG teams. We basically just steamroll the opposition.
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Herding tanks drive me batty.
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I'd like to suggest a change to that: bad herding tanks drive me batty.
When I play my tanks, I herd. I do this mainly because I find it the best way to actually tank since I'm not nor have I ever been a fan of taking Taunt (though I'm reconsidering this now that Taunt has -range), but I also don't expect the group to stop and wait for me to actually herd. I'm proactive. I don't wait for the entire group to be dead before I go and herd up the next group (which also prevents group splits because everyone knows I'll be exactly where they need to head by the time they need to choose). I wait for enough stragglers to be standing around that it will take enough time for the rest of the team to clear the group for me to get the next group nice and huddled up. I generally operate 1 group at a time as well, but that's mostly because I run on diffs 2 and 4 with 8 man teams (re: I live at the aggro cap). The only time a herding tank slows a group down is if it's a bad herding tank, at which point you'd be better served by just having him/her jump in.
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Alright... bad herding tanks.
But I consider a "bad" herding tank to be the type that insists that every single spawn be herded, regardless of size or difficulty of the mission, before anyone else does anything and that behaves as though they think they're god's gift to teaming and it's their job to keep everyone safe. Which isn't so bad, until you combine it with berating and deriding anyone who doesn't essentially ask permission to do anything other than stand around waiting for the tank to give the kill order.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
Well if we have to talk about herding and pulling, we have to bring up people who have heard that herding and pulling suck and insist on charging headfirst into every mob regardless of circumstances. Tanking can be hard, especially at low levels, and a certain number of KO's are acceptable but sometimes you have to wonder if some players arent aware they can view other team members health and endurance bars.
There's a time and place for pulling and tanking, and they're rarely the times or places that people think they are.
There's nothing wrong with either of those things in and of their own, it's stupid players who either over-value or under-value their usefulness.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
Yes, this isn't a tank-bashing thread. Most tanks I've teamed with have been good experiences and a team can really survive and thrive with one. As always, it's the bossy control freaks that are the problem. Luckily they're fairly rare
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Yes, this isn't a tank-bashing thread. Most tanks I've teamed with have been good experiences and a team can really survive and thrive with one. As always, it's the bossy control freaks that are the problem. Luckily they're fairly rare
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I've observed that the primary reason that so many people have a problem with most Tankers (using the specific term in CoX) is the people that tend to play tanks (using the general term in MMOs) tend to think of themselves as the linchpin of the group. They're important. They're in change. If they drop, so does everyone else. Even if they're complete idiots that don't even know how the game works, they think it was all because of them because they're the tank.
It doesn't help that, because of the tank's role within the group, it's more obvious when they're an idiot, a noob, or don't know how to play the game. Incompetent Blasters and Scrappers aren't particularly obvious (obvious meaning you can tell they're idiots without checking their build or reading chat) because they're damage dealers. If stuff is dieing, it's assuming that the Blaster/Scrapper is doing his/her job. Incompetent Controllers and Defenders are a bit more obvious. Generally, they're the ones that think healing is the be-all-end-all of support, don't use their controls/buffs/debuffs, or try to be primary damage dealers. You can tell they're idiots because they're not doing what they're there for: keeping the team alive. Incompetent Tankers are, by far, the most obvious. They're the ones that die or get held (and then die) regularly. They're the ones that, rather than actively getting aggro, focus on the closest enemy and let the rest of the mob kill their teammates. They're the ones that, even though they should know that they're the hardiest guy in the group, still insist on having someone else run in first and take the alpha because they think they're squishier.
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Bad Team Bingo
We could use some better square material 
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I dunno. "I'm Drunk" basically covered everything for me.
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Yes, this isn't a tank-bashing thread. Most tanks I've teamed with have been good experiences and a team can really survive and thrive with one. As always, it's the bossy control freaks that are the problem. Luckily they're fairly rare
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Agreed. Higher up in the thread I posted about my most recent problem child who just happened to be a tank. I regularly play with several very good Tank players and I am constantly amazed at how frightening a well played tank can be.
Back to my storm defender for an example: Moving through Tsoo infested caves in Talos our Tank walks into the room, fires off a taunt, and calmly starts throwing punches while the entire cave system descends upon him.
As a Defender I'm standing back putting freezing rain and my other tricks where they'll do the most good and the whole time our Tank has not moved. He's still there switching from target to target, just leaving a growing pile of bodies around him. Once everything has gone quiet he turns to make sure everything's clear and proceeds onward.
It's nice seeing someone play to the strengths of a Tank instead of trying to make them some kind of scrapper .
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
Im tired of teaching n00bz
To point, I would rather trash talk them straight to there face, if possible make them quit this game forever. 11yrs of MMOs, makes a man jaded to the retards out there.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
On my 41 tank, join a PuG of 40-ish. Ranging from 38-41. It's an train mish, you know...the one where you go to a train station and one of your options is the active mission? An outdoor instanced? OK...
39 Warshade joins the team. Usual banter begins, "Hi, how are you? Good, you?" blah blah blah...
Four of us, out of 5, are in the mission. Waiting on the last. I start going through team members, what powers, etc... I check the Warshade, expand the team window so I could see where he was and what was taking so long..he's in Oroborus. OOOOOooooK.
I ask, "What up yo?!" OK, that wasn't verbatim, but you get the jist. He then asks..."How do I get to that mission?"
O.o
Um...I kindly reply (as do two others) that you need to go...yada yada yada...I then mention that I think you can actually get here via the Orobous portal, when you leave Oroborus. He tells us, "Nope, not an option." We tell him to go to Talos or FF since the train station is really close to the Oroborus drop off point. He goes to FF.
At which point the lv 40 team lead, a blaster, asks "What's Oroborus?"
O.o
Um...OoooooK! I tell him, "Well, since sparky is taking a while...here I'll show you."
I drop the portal...we enter. I fly up to show him where the badge is, explain it (no vet badges), and go back to the Oroborus exit...and Lo and Behold! There it is...the option to enter his mission is there. Just as we click it the lost Warshade zones back into Oroborus.
O.o *quiver*
We go back into the mission...I then tell, sternly and fatherly, the Warshade that the option to get into the mission is indeed in the Oroborus exit menu.
All we get is, "Oh".
/em sigh
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On my 41 tank, join a PuG of 40-ish. Ranging from 38-41. It's an train mish, you know...the one where you go to a train station and one of your options is the active mission? An outdoor instanced? OK...
39 Warshade joins the team. Usual banter begins, "Hi, how are you? Good, you?" blah blah blah...
Four of us, out of 5, are in the mission. Waiting on the last. I start going through team members, what powers, etc... I check the Warshade, expand the team window so I could see where he was and what was taking so long..he's in Oroborus. OOOOOooooK.
I ask, "What up yo?!" OK, that wasn't verbatim, but you get the jist. He then asks..."How do I get to that mission?"
O.o
Um...I kindly reply (as do two others) that you need to go...yada yada yada...I then mention that I think you can actually get here via the Orobous portal, when you leave Oroborus. He tells us, "Nope, not an option." We tell him to go to Talos or FF since the train station is really close to the Oroborus drop off point. He goes to FF.
At which point the lv 40 team lead, a blaster, asks "What's Oroborus?"
O.o
Um...OoooooK! I tell him, "Well, since sparky is taking a while...here I'll show you."
I drop the portal...we enter. I fly up to show him where the badge is, explain it (no vet badges), and go back to the Oroborus exit...and Lo and Behold! There it is...the option to enter his mission is there. Just as we click it the lost Warshade zones back into Oroborus.
O.o *quiver*
We go back into the mission...I then tell, sternly and fatherly, the Warshade that the option to get into the mission is indeed in the Oroborus exit menu.
All we get is, "Oh".
/em sigh
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I am not sure on game mechanics, but I may have one possible answer as to why the WS couldn't see the mission (I assume you mean it was a Board Train mission). What if he had the window open before he joined the team?
Does anyone know if it will add the train mission option it the list of travel destinations?
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I think my point is that I'm trying to illustrate that MA/AE farming and PL is not the devil that people are claiming it to be, nor is it the source of crappy play and bad behaviour despite the spin that some are trying to give it. It's merely another mechanism to accomplish somethign that many, many veteran players who really, actually know what they're doing can use to get by some of the more plodding, grinding and boring parts of character development (read; pre-20).
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I agree. The AE is an easy scapegoat of blame when it comes to players with PL'ed characters. There's this mindset that because these players avoid most of the official content, they automatically are bad players, or assume that they are just EXP door-sitters who let others do the levelling for them while they don't do or learn much.
On hindsight though, PL'ers participate mostly in boss farms and are faced with repetive threats, they become better players with their ATs dealing with these situations but may have yet to get better when dealing with others like mobs that emphasize on control effects. Still, I don't believe that this ultimately makes them as bad players in the outcome.
Though when it comes to these players who don't bother to explore the official content, I can see how it can become a bother since not having the knowledge of how to use the tram system to get to places, not knowing what Oroborous is, or how to get into Cimerora or RWZ can be a problem. But this doesn't have anything to do with personal player skill anyway, just a lack of knowledge of the environment outside the AE.
We are imperfect in our own ways and it reflects well when we play this game. I'm sure each and everyone of us have had their screw up moments. Whether or not we learn from mistakes or even accept them as our own is another matter.
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On my 41 tank, join a PuG of 40-ish. Ranging from 38-41. It's an train mish, you know...the one where you go to a train station and one of your options is the active mission? An outdoor instanced? OK...
39 Warshade joins the team. Usual banter begins, "Hi, how are you? Good, you?" blah blah blah...
Four of us, out of 5, are in the mission. Waiting on the last. I start going through team members, what powers, etc... I check the Warshade, expand the team window so I could see where he was and what was taking so long..he's in Oroborus. OOOOOooooK.
I ask, "What up yo?!" OK, that wasn't verbatim, but you get the jist. He then asks..."How do I get to that mission?"
O.o
Um...I kindly reply (as do two others) that you need to go...yada yada yada...I then mention that I think you can actually get here via the Orobous portal, when you leave Oroborus. He tells us, "Nope, not an option." We tell him to go to Talos or FF since the train station is really close to the Oroborus drop off point. He goes to FF.
At which point the lv 40 team lead, a blaster, asks "What's Oroborus?"
O.o
Um...OoooooK! I tell him, "Well, since sparky is taking a while...here I'll show you."
I drop the portal...we enter. I fly up to show him where the badge is, explain it (no vet badges), and go back to the Oroborus exit...and Lo and Behold! There it is...the option to enter his mission is there. Just as we click it the lost Warshade zones back into Oroborus.
O.o *quiver*
We go back into the mission...I then tell, sternly and fatherly, the Warshade that the option to get into the mission is indeed in the Oroborus exit menu.
All we get is, "Oh".
/em sigh
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I am not sure on game mechanics, but I may have one possible answer as to why the WS couldn't see the mission (I assume you mean it was a Board Train mission). What if he had the window open before he joined the team?
Does anyone know if it will add the train mission option it the list of travel destinations?
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Perhaps I should fully explain: The Warshade player when to FF, to the train and couldn't find the mission. Then went back to Orobous so that is a moot point, I apologize for not specifying earlier.
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On my 41 tank, join a PuG of 40-ish. Ranging from 38-41. It's an train mish, you know...the one where you go to a train station and one of your options is the active mission? An outdoor instanced? OK...
39 Warshade joins the team. Usual banter begins, "Hi, how are you? Good, you?" blah blah blah...
Four of us, out of 5, are in the mission. Waiting on the last. I start going through team members, what powers, etc... I check the Warshade, expand the team window so I could see where he was and what was taking so long..he's in Oroborus. OOOOOooooK.
I ask, "What up yo?!" OK, that wasn't verbatim, but you get the jist. He then asks..."How do I get to that mission?"
O.o
Um...I kindly reply (as do two others) that you need to go...yada yada yada...I then mention that I think you can actually get here via the Orobous portal, when you leave Oroborus. He tells us, "Nope, not an option." We tell him to go to Talos or FF since the train station is really close to the Oroborus drop off point. He goes to FF.
At which point the lv 40 team lead, a blaster, asks "What's Oroborus?"
O.o
Um...OoooooK! I tell him, "Well, since sparky is taking a while...here I'll show you."
I drop the portal...we enter. I fly up to show him where the badge is, explain it (no vet badges), and go back to the Oroborus exit...and Lo and Behold! There it is...the option to enter his mission is there. Just as we click it the lost Warshade zones back into Oroborus.
O.o *quiver*
We go back into the mission...I then tell, sternly and fatherly, the Warshade that the option to get into the mission is indeed in the Oroborus exit menu.
All we get is, "Oh".
/em sigh
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I am not sure on game mechanics, but I may have one possible answer as to why the WS couldn't see the mission (I assume you mean it was a Board Train mission). What if he had the window open before he joined the team?
Does anyone know if it will add the train mission option it the list of travel destinations?
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Perhaps I should fully explain: The Warshade player when to FF, to the train and couldn't find the mission. Then went back to Orobous so that is a moot point, I apologize for not specifying earlier.
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I've seen a lot of people get confused by this. I think it's because they don't know specifically what they're looking for. They're probably expecting it to say "Mission" or something like that. But instead it says the actual name of the area where it takes place which they may or may not know.
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On my 41 tank, join a PuG of 40-ish. Ranging from 38-41. It's an train mish, you know...the one where you go to a train station and one of your options is the active mission? An outdoor instanced? OK...
39 Warshade joins the team. Usual banter begins, "Hi, how are you? Good, you?" blah blah blah...
Four of us, out of 5, are in the mission. Waiting on the last. I start going through team members, what powers, etc... I check the Warshade, expand the team window so I could see where he was and what was taking so long..he's in Oroborus. OOOOOooooK.
I ask, "What up yo?!" OK, that wasn't verbatim, but you get the jist. He then asks..."How do I get to that mission?"
O.o
Um...I kindly reply (as do two others) that you need to go...yada yada yada...I then mention that I think you can actually get here via the Orobous portal, when you leave Oroborus. He tells us, "Nope, not an option." We tell him to go to Talos or FF since the train station is really close to the Oroborus drop off point. He goes to FF.
At which point the lv 40 team lead, a blaster, asks "What's Oroborus?"
O.o
Um...OoooooK! I tell him, "Well, since sparky is taking a while...here I'll show you."
I drop the portal...we enter. I fly up to show him where the badge is, explain it (no vet badges), and go back to the Oroborus exit...and Lo and Behold! There it is...the option to enter his mission is there. Just as we click it the lost Warshade zones back into Oroborus.
O.o *quiver*
We go back into the mission...I then tell, sternly and fatherly, the Warshade that the option to get into the mission is indeed in the Oroborus exit menu.
All we get is, "Oh".
/em sigh
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not sure on game mechanics, but I may have one possible answer as to why the WS couldn't see the mission (I assume you mean it was a Board Train mission). What if he had the window open before he joined the team?
Does anyone know if it will add the train mission option it the list of travel destinations?
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps I should fully explain: The Warshade player when to FF, to the train and couldn't find the mission. Then went back to Orobous so that is a moot point, I apologize for not specifying earlier.
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I'll do you one better.
I actually saw a Peacebringer in Steel Canyon asking how to get to Talos. We were standing next to the yellow line train, and I told him to take the green line train. He asked what that was.
He had no idea that the one train in Steel and Skyway was for lower level zones, and one was for higher level zones.
And, here's the best part, this was before AE.
Learn modesty, if you desire knowledge. A highland would never be irrigated by river." (Kanz ol-Haghayegh)
Oooh... now we're talking about people failing to know their transportation? Yeah... I've run into that. I've met at least three people who didn't know about the Black Helicopter Line between Cap Au Diable and Mercy Island. Each time I teamed with these folks, they took the long way through Port Oakes.
That doesn't surprise me. The first Black Helicopter you see, the one by Kalinda, wont take you anywhere. I'm sure a number of people assume that the rest don't do anything either.
Actually, that's not entirely true. If there is more than one instance of Mercy Island, the Black Helicopter by Kalinda will allow you to move between them (e.g. move from Mercy Island 2 to Mercy Island 3). That way lowbies don't have to hike all the way to the Port Oakes ferry just to be in the same zone if they end up in different ones.
Still, the belief that it does nothing is perfectly understandable, as multiple instances of Mercy Island are quite rare outside of reactivation weekends, double xp weekends or other special events.
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server
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Oooh... now we're talking about people failing to know their transportation? Yeah... I've run into that. I've met at least three people who didn't know about the Black Helicopter Line between Cap Au Diable and Mercy Island.
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feh. I can never remember which zones connect where on redside. I simply don't play there enough to ever get familiar with the layout.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Herding tanks drive me batty.
Herding is handy once in a while, but there are these idiots out there that seem to think that herding is the only option, or that it's somehow more fun or safer for the team. There's very few things as irritating about a tank who's a nazi about herding and who tries to disallow the team from doing anything other than act as a blender for the mobs while the tank himself gets to have all the fun. I quit those teams faster than just about anything else.
Her'es another one...
A few years ago when archery first came out I made an Arch/Dev blaster, complete with mines, the whole bit. I was on a PuG and the leader, obviously a newer player, kept trying to tell me during the TV Respec to use my mines. Every spawn he'd be "instructing" me to put mines down.
We were having no trouble at all, my blaster was doing his job and the other team members were doing theirs. Even the team lead who kept insisting on landmines was doing okay, but he wouldn't shut up about them. I just kept saying no... I knew better, I knew that laying those mines down would do nothienr other than slow us down as we were doing pretty well. We weren't steamrolling by any means... but we were doing pretty well and had suffered very few, if any, defeats.
We finished the respec trial relatively easily, although just to shut him up I showed him both how long it takes to set up a decent mine field, thereby slowing the team down significantly given that he wanted them laid before every single spawn, and how many mines it took to really be effective against spawns that big. Landmines, really... are only really good for solo play anyway. In a decent team they're a waste of time.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!