Whoops, I was basing my math off Blaster's ranged damage modifier, not their melee modifier. Incidentally Dominators now have a higher melee modifier than Blasters (1.05 versus 1.0).
The endurance cost increase still bugs me though.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Whoops, I was basing my math off Blaster's ranged damage modifier, not their melee modifier. Incidentally Dominators now have a higher melee modifier than Blasters (1.05 versus 1.0).
The endurance cost increase still bugs me though.
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You and me both. :/ Loathe as I am to say it, I'd rather see them normalize both versions between the two numbers, at least for a little more parity.
Even if it'll make my Psi/Men a little disappointed.
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That is, I'll try it out when the Mac test client gets fixed. 
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My copy of test on my Mac ate itself when I tried to update to the last patch (it somehow managed to delete the actual game and pseudo Windows directory). Probably gonna copy files over from my Windows version if it'll save me time.
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Via con Dominar, Macmigo!
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
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You and me both. :/ Loathe as I am to say it, I'd rather see them normalize both versions between the two numbers, at least for a little more parity.
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Yeah, that looks like the one thing that's turning out to be too difficult to manage. Most of the changes to melee attacks seem to be with the goal of making them more like the Blaster versions of attacks, however Electricity Assault is changing them in the other direction. And there is Total Focus, when for the most part it was the weaker attacks that got the Blaster treatment, not the stronger.
So a consistent normalization to the other ATs may be impossible.
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You and me both. :/ Loathe as I am to say it, I'd rather see them normalize both versions between the two numbers, at least for a little more parity.
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Yeah, that looks like the one thing that's turning out to be too difficult to manage. Most of the changes to melee attacks seem to be with the goal of making them more like the Blaster versions of attacks, however Electricity Assault is changing them in the other direction. And there is Total Focus, when for the most part it was the weaker attacks that got the Blaster treatment, not the stronger.
So a consistent normalization to the other ATs may be impossible.
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The dom changes I see look like a lot of "dart being thrown at a board" to me.
One problem I've been seeing with the progression of things since around I13 (PvP revamp and merits, specifically) is that we are moving closer and closer to normalization and standardization wherever it's possible. It seems like a good idea on the surface but it also means that the unique aspects of certain powers or ATs are being stripped in the name of making everything the same. As someone once said, "once everyone is super, no one will be super."
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I don't think that's the case at all, really. I think what's more happening is that the margin between sets is being lowered, while consideration is being given towards keeping certain sets individual where possible.
No powers were replaced, only adjusted. Even if they all did the exact same damage for powers of their type, the order and utility of each set wouldn't likely change that much at all, except perhaps in the melee sets (except those given to Stalkers, who are already significantly different then Scrappers/Brutes/Tanks). And then factoring in the AT modifiers into that further creates a different 'feel'.
Balance and homogenization may have a few things in common, but the main thing with balance is that it doesn't have to be perfect. Especially not when you have 14 things to balance on the same amount of table space.
That's probably why I'm so intrigued with the nature of these changes as they stand now - there's a lot of little things going on under the hood to keep things in a closer state of balance then they were previously, but I haven't seen anything to suggest at this point that there's any homogenization going on.
I don't see any errant cytoplasm floating around just yet.
Some people don't like the pressure of worrying about what sets they pick. If you make every set practically identical that concern is eliminated.
The "fun", "strategy", and "uniqueness" is also eliminated, but Castle seems more than ok with that.
Augh.
It's the Warlock forums all over again. :<
damage/end/recharge numbers should not be your main qualifier for differences in fun strategy or uniqueness. I could understand if they decided 'every dom assault set now has 2 melee, 2 ranged, and AOE, a nuke, aim, and a snipe', but bringing damage numbers more inline with each other doesn't really hurt unqiuness at all IMO. elec will still be a single target set with high melee capabilities, thorns will still be an AOE set, fire will still do gobs of ranged damage etc... the only one who is having a role change is psy, and that's because they had one overpowered ability dominating how the set played.
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damage/end/recharge numbers should not be your main qualifier for differences in fun strategy or uniqueness. I could understand if they decided 'every dom assault set now has 2 melee, 2 ranged, and AOE, a nuke, aim, and a snipe', but bringing damage numbers more inline with each other doesn't really hurt unqiuness at all IMO. elec will still be a single target set with high melee capabilities, thorns will still be an AOE set, fire will still do gobs of ranged damage etc... the only one who is having a role change is psy, and that's because they had one overpowered ability dominating how the set played.
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Some people don't like the pressure of picking sets that might impact later performance. By making them all perform the same you eliminate that concern.
Some people think if something is colored blue and another thing is colored red yet everything else is the same that makes them different in this game. (case in point the new mental blast and subdue is the exact same attack twice in the same set 
)
Some peoole think that if a set is focused on "burst damage" ie broadsword vs "dps "ie claws that results in a different play experience.
Some people think that a different play experience leads to "uniqueness" Other people obviously don't.
Considering everything in this game is a convergence of numbers I'm not sure how saying making the numbers more similar does anything BUT eliminate variation.
And FYI /elec now needs to use all 3 melee attacks just to equal the two melee attacks of /eng. All while /eng has a full ranged attack chain by lvl 10 lol.
/elec and /psi were bent over pretty hard. /psi might have deserved it, but /elec never hurt nobody other than in pvp.
Overall the doms changes have very clearly moved them into a single target damage focus for every assault set. Now it is just a matter of whether you like pink fists, or pink brainwaves
More similar is not equal to the same.
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More similar is not equal to the same.
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Neither does less similar equal needing to be changed. Do you have a point to make?
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More similar is not equal to the same.
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Neither does less similar equal needing to be changed. Do you have a point to make?
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Other then you're working purely with hyperbole? Not really.
You're assuming that because things are being into a state of balance relative to other things within one function of a system, that the entire system is immediately becoming homogenized. Which isn't even really the case here.
Do you even know what the word means, or are you just throwing it around because other people have done the same ridiculous discussion before, and you don't have anything new other then to parrot them back?
The strange thing is, the sets that were homogenous (and performing badly) were made more like the unique set that was performing well. However, that unique set, because it was performing so well, has been made more like those sets were originally, thus maintaining its uniqueness.
Electricity will now be the fast recharging, low damage set that Energy and Psi were previously. Or so it appears from the changes so far.
Actually I never assumed any of those things. Assuming would mean I don't have enough information to make a declaration.
I'll have a good laugh when down the road dom population hasn't improved by squat and people are making the same old complaints about them.
But hey, enjoy the "buff" and don't get your panties in too much a bunch
A poster said it a few pages back when he//she used the word" normalization".
I told you all this would happen and it has. I ,although apparantly a vast minority, do not want to play Homeginized Milk version of a dominator.
Sooner or later someone will make the comparison so I'll just get it over with. The added recharge in the notes is disturbingly similar to pvp 2.0. You all asked for it and now PVE is getting it too.
I am saddenned but not surprised.
This looks like a solid revamp.
Any dominator should know that we, as an AT, are cursed with a glut of click powers. This means that the shift to higher damge attacks with a commensurate increase in recharge/endurance is a significant buff in and of itself. The damage scale shifts outside of domination are the core of this revamp, but these numbers are nearly as important.
Two thumbs up from me (Ise/Psi, Mind/Fire).
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A poster said it a few pages back when he//she used the word" normalization".
I told you all this would happen and it has. I ,although apparantly a vast minority, do not want to play Homeginized Milk version of a dominator.
Sooner or later someone will make the comparison so I'll just get it over with. The added recharge in the notes is disturbingly similar to pvp 2.0. You all asked for it and now PVE is getting it too.
I am saddenned but not surprised.
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Don't you dare compared pvp2.0!! Just because some people were exactly right that he'd approach changing doms the same way is no reason to bring that up now.
Dammit pvp2.0 is more popular and so will be the new DOMS!!
Though seriously, st damage specialists are all the rage in the pve game, crazy popular on teams yo.
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A poster said it a few pages back when he//she used the word" normalization".
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Just so you know, the word "normalization", used previously was referring to the use of powers that are shared by other ATs, and whether they will use the same damage scale values, and if so, which they will use if different ATs use different values. For instance, Tankers and Brutes with Bone Smasher have a 1.64 damage scale, 8s recharge, and 8.528 End cost. Blasters with the same power have a 2.6 damage scale, 14s recharge and 13.52 End cost. Dominators previously had the Tanker version, after this change they will have 1.96 damage scale, 10s recharge and 10.2 End cost.
In this case, it looks like Dominators are being made MORE unique, not less. Especially if they are being normalized across the board to be between Tankers and Blasters instead of one or the other. (And in fact, now that I look at it, this is EXACTLY what is happening, for melee attacks. Electricity Assault is being changed according to this exact same standard)
Now, if your definition of "fun" and "unique" and "not homogenous" is that Tankers should have one damage scale and recharge with Fire Sword, and Brutes should have another damage scale and recharge, and Scrappers should have yet another, well, I don't know what to tell you. Variety is one thing, but a lack of consistency with the exact same attack seems to be quite another.
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The added recharge in the notes is disturbingly similar to pvp 2.0. You all asked for it and now PVE is getting it too.
I am saddenned but not surprised.
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One again, the added recharge and Endurance cost is exactly proportional in the adjustments to the base scale damage. This is the way every single AT in the game operates. Every single change they have made to the damage an attack power does, from when they made Blaster attacks do more damage but recharge slower, to the adjustments they made to Axe, Mace, Claws, and so on, have followed these rules. New sets they have introduced, like Dual Blades and Sonic Assault, have also followed exactly the same rules. Damage determines recharge time, and recharge time determines damage. The ratios between them are still the same.
Now if only they'd look over the things that resist (or have defense against) psi to make the late game more enjoyable.
Honestly, if they just made Malta Turrets and bank doors less psi resistant, I'd be thrilled. There's nothing quite so fun as being beaten by a pet-class mob because it has 90% resistance to your only real damage type; or spending four minutes plinking a bank vault to death.
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Now if only they'd look over the things that resist (or have defense against) psi to make the late game more enjoyable.
Honestly, if they just made Malta Turrets and bank doors less psi resistant, I'd be thrilled. There's nothing quite so fun as being beaten by a pet-class mob because it has 90% resistance to your only real damage type; or spending four minutes plinking a bank vault to death.
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Werd to that. :/
Though, from most reports on the matter, Toxic isn't in any better of a situation for similar reasons. Kind of weird, isn't it?
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Now if only they'd look over the things that resist (or have defense against) psi to make the late game more enjoyable.
Honestly, if they just made Malta Turrets and bank doors less psi resistant, I'd be thrilled. There's nothing quite so fun as being beaten by a pet-class mob because it has 90% resistance to your only real damage type; or spending four minutes plinking a bank vault to death.
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Werd to that. :/
Though, from most reports on the matter, Toxic isn't in any better of a situation for similar reasons. Kind of weird, isn't it?
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As a bane spider player, the only thing I've noticed that really resists toxic damage are pop-up turrets (you know, the cute little ones that show up on the Longbow ships). Fortunately, they're weak to smashing so the set provides its own mitigation to toxic ray doing a total of 12 damage against one of them. ^_^
Psi suffers because it lacks any sort of mixed damage attack to bypass or mitigate some of the things that heavily resist it; which means you either have to hold some things to death or (if you have a mind primary, which ALSO does pure psi damage) Levitate things to death.
Honestly, I'd be satisfied if bank vaults weren't 70-90% psi resistant. I can blow up cars with my mind, but a door resists me more then a Fake Nemesis does? o.O
I can understand why high resistances exist, and thematically the two most egregious ones (malta turrets and bank vaults) make sense... but from a fun standpoint, they're irritating. After 50 levels of bank vaults (and ten of malta turrets), I can honestly say my mind/psi dom is the second-least fun character I've ever had. Pointless waiting to kill things that don't even give experience is not enjoyable.
Ok, so, looking at these numbers, doms are still in the lowest ranks in terms of damage, right? So, what, exactly, are we supposed to bring to AV fights? You still need to perma a dom to sleep the Phalanx, and unless you went crazy enough with +rech that you can hold an AV through the triangles (hi) then you're not bringing any control that a team with patron pools isn't bringing. The same goes for a lot of the custom critters with mezz shields. So for the biggest fights in the game, particularly the RSF where skipping to the AVs is just how it's done, why bring a dom at all?
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Or complaining because their PSW is the same as Blasters.
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It's not. Check the new numbers again. In addition to dealing less damage than the Blaster version, the new PSW costs almost twice the endurance.
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Not really? The Blaster version is DS1.1. The Dominator version is now at 1.21 - marginally more damage. The endurance quip is, however, accurate.
However, Castle's also stated that the Dominator version is using the Melee damage table (1.05 vs. 0.95), whereas the Blaster version is using the appropriate table (which is only slightly higher for Blasters in general).