[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Problem: Apparently the DEVS don't consider Farms and Farming in MArch acceptable. Period. You're going to have to convince THEM, first.
[/ QUOTE ]
I tend to look at what people do, not what they say, to determine what they believe. Through their inaction, the devs have tacitly condoned farming. The token measures they've taken to stop it are laughable.
Alternatively, maybe they do find farming unacceptable, but their definition of farming is substantially different than what the hall-monitor set consider to be farming. Meow may be farming in their minds, but all boss outdoor maps may not be. If they do think that an all boss outdoor map is unacceptable maybe they should, you know, remove the option from MA, like they did with Rikti comm officers.
[/ QUOTE ]
It takes time to make changes. I wouldn't assume just because they haven't done more yet that they won't be doing more.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
[ QUOTE ]
LOL the only way the devs will ever get rid of farms in MA, is they implement another round of reward/xp nerfs.
But they don't seem to be interested in reality
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is counter to their desire of having MA around for levelling.
I don't think the devs really hate MA being used for levelling or farming. They seem mostly fixated on removing exploits.
They don't care if you're running a mission where you fight 4 Lord Recluses or hundreds of boss mobs. They do care if those mobs have been custom tailored to be pathetically weak (which is hard to do with custom critters.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Problem: Apparently the DEVS don't consider Farms and Farming in MArch acceptable. Period. You're going to have to convince THEM, first.
[/ QUOTE ]
I tend to look at what people do, not what they say, to determine what they believe. Through their inaction, the devs have tacitly condoned farming. The token measures they've taken to stop it are laughable.
Alternatively, maybe they do find farming unacceptable, but their definition of farming is substantially different than what the hall-monitor set consider to be farming. Meow may be farming in their minds, but all boss outdoor maps may not be. If they do think that an all boss outdoor map is unacceptable maybe they should, you know, remove the option from MA, like they did with Rikti comm officers.
[/ QUOTE ]Comm Officers were an exploit. They haven't said anything to indicate the all-boss map is actually an exploit. I agree, though that if it is giving an unacceptable rate of reward, they need to do SOMETHING about it. Remove the option completely (which I'd hate), or change the system so that combination doesn't give an unacceptable rate of reward. Which appears to be the approach they are taking.
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, though that if it is giving an unacceptable rate of reward, they need to do SOMETHING about it
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting statement.
[ QUOTE ]
Except for basic things that the devs have no control over, like abusive and racist language in chat, there should be few to no rules in the game. If the devs don't want me doing something, it should be enforced programatically. If they want to encourage or discourage certain behaviors, they should do this through game design, not commandments. They should most certainly not give me a tool that, as part of its core functionality, gives me everything I need to engage in positively reinforced behaviors that they would like to discourage.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you discovered something that gave awesome reward for very little effort, something you could also tell the Devs were likely to call an exploit once they found out about it, what would you do? Would you leave it alone or would you build MArch missions designed to get as much out of it as you could before they "fixed" it?
And if your answer is to grab what you can while you can, how would you respond if they canceled your account for doing so?
(I'm not trying to set you up for some kind of "well, you're a dirty [whatever]". I'm honestly interested in your responses to those questions.)
[ QUOTE ]
If you discovered something that gave awesome reward for very little effort, something you could also tell the Devs were likely to call an exploit once they found out about it, what would you do? Would you leave it alone or would you build MArch missions designed to get as much out of it as you could before they "fixed" it?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd probably take the middle road, like i did with meow. I didn't build any missions that used comm officers, but I would play on other people's if thats what the team I was on was doing. I wouldn't take a character to 50 on it, but getting to stamina or a primary tier 9 in a few missions was too good to pass up, especially when I've been through all the content i don't know how many times.
That said, meow was at the very boundaries of what I'd consider to be an exploit. If it was something like being able to get inside geometry or duplicate cash, i'd /bug it and never touch it. The difference, in my mind, is that in these cases things are not working as the devs intended, it is purely an error. With meow, the Comm Officers were behaving exactly as the devs intended, as they were meant to give outsized rewards, they just didn't foresee the consequences of this. I'm not about to get into a game of "how much reward is too much?" What about boss farms? What about all LT maps? What if I were to recreate a warrior farm? If the game gives it, and it's not a clear error like I mentioned above, it's just right.
I might add that I believe the dev's gave tacit consent to meow when they were "unable" to remove it during reactivation week but took it down as soon as this was over and they had, presumably, made some resubscribe money off of people that loved the fast leveling. I'll be as cynical as they are.
To sum up, I think that boss map rewards are probably a bit too high, but don't consider this to be an exploit. Large time:reward ratios aren't necessarily exploits, they are more likely poor game design, which I am not responsible for mitigating. As long as they are creatable in MA, I will continue to run them.
[ QUOTE ]
And if your answer is to grab what you can while you can, how would you respond if they canceled your account for doing so?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I'd read that as them asking me to kindly go play CO instead. I'd gladly do this and get as many of my friends as I could to join me. Now, I haven't heard of anyone having an account canceled for meow. if I had a character de-leveled for meowing, I'd consider canceling my account, as they really should have put an in game message in asking us not to do this if they saw it as such a problem, but would probably take a "you play, you pay" attitude. Now if they were to temp suspend my account, I'm heading right over to CO. They are in the business of convincing me that I should give them my subscription fee every month. If they had the mistaken notion that they could "punish" me, I would do what I can to disabuse them of said notion. I wouldn't take it personally, I'd just treat them like any other business whose practices dissatisfy me.
CoX is not the 800lb gorilla, and they cannot take the same stance towards their players. The big guy could ban this games entire population and not even blink. I expect a higher level of customer service because of that.
[ QUOTE ]
(I'm not trying to set you up for some kind of "well, you're a dirty [whatever]". I'm honestly interested in your responses to those questions.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Respectful dialog with people you disagree with?!?!?! I must be on the wrong board.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you discovered something that gave awesome reward for very little effort, something you could also tell the Devs were likely to call an exploit once they found out about it, what would you do? Would you leave it alone or would you build MArch missions designed to get as much out of it as you could before they "fixed" it?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd probably take the middle road, like i did with meow. I didn't build any missions that used comm officers, but I would play on other people's if thats what the team I was on was doing. I wouldn't take a character to 50 on it, but getting to stamina or a primary tier 9 in a few missions was too good to pass up, especially when I've been through all the content i don't know how many times.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, you've played ALL the MA story arcs? Impressive. What are you, a clone army with a hive mind?
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
I said content, not fanfic.
Trying to avoid reading more into your response than is there: I'm hearing that if you saw something you thought the Devs were likely to call an exploit, you'd leave it alone. You wouldn't go building a mission full of it.
But you feel that if they want to keep you from doing something you WANT to do, they have to make it impossible for you to actually do so. But there are some things that, while not impossible, you accept that you shouldn't do them? (Like take advantage of something that is, in your own judgement, likely to be an exploit.)
The question I still have is this: If you chose to do something that you knew was against the rules, how would you respond if they punished you for doing it? Would you feel they didn't have the right to do so? Or would you chalk it up to "Oh, well, I got caught and I got punished"? (Or something else?)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(I'm not trying to set you up for some kind of "well, you're a dirty [whatever]". I'm honestly interested in your responses to those questions.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Respectful dialog with people you disagree with?!?!?! I must be on the wrong board.
[/ QUOTE ] For sure! 
Wow, this subject is still being debated? Even the Devs don't talk about it anymore.
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, this subject is still being debated? Even the Devs don't talk about it anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]Nope. Just exploring one person's personal feelings and attitudes.
[ QUOTE ]
I said content, not fanfic.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do know that the MA was conceived as a tool for creating canon content by the dev team, right?
It's nice that you consider the dev team to be such incredible paragons of creativity compared to the playerbase in its entirety, but your blanket thrrrppp at said playerbases creative quality is laughable.
Of course, the reality is that you aren't in the game for the narrative content at all, no matter who makes it. You're simply a Dirty farmer
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, the reality is that you aren't in the game for the narrative content at all, no matter who makes it. You're simply a Dirty farmer
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the only reason to play this game is for the story right? 
@Intro lolPvP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, the reality is that you aren't in the game for the narrative content at all, no matter who makes it. You're simply a Dirty farmer
Eco.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the only reason to play this game is for the story right?
[/ QUOTE ]
The stories are all on Paragonwiki. They can save themselves $15 a month.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
lol farmers.
lol anti-farmers.
I'm in the game for PvP. The best 'AI' in the game is another player. The best 'test' of your toon's build is another player. The best fighting is against other players. And RWZ raids. Arena is a lot of fun on teams. And ITFs are fun too.
Like last night fer instance in RV...I had a kill ratio 23:7 on my nrg/nrg blaster. The villains were falling like leaves.
Hmmm...wonder if I got another PvP IO to sell for 200 million...I'll have to check...
[ QUOTE ]
You do know that the MA was conceived as a tool for creating canon content by the dev team, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? IT WAS?!?!?!? Is it totally canon? OMG, I can't wait for them to ACTUALLY add the stories to COH LORE. :O [/end sarcasm]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and no one forces you to do those types of missions. enough is enough already.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I'm forced to spend 15+ minutes looking for a damn mission in order to NOT do a farm in the AE. It's completely ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is [censored]. I can find a non-farm in a heart beat. Do you even read the arc descriptions? It's pretty obvious which ones are farms and which are not.
Or maybe you just can't read... good?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You do know that the MA was conceived as a tool for creating canon content by the dev team, right?
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? IT WAS?!?!?!? Is it totally canon? OMG, I can't wait for them to ACTUALLY add the stories to COH LORE. :O [/end sarcasm]
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think sarcasm means what you think it means.
But I digress.
I meant that some 'content', as you put it, that is released by the devs in future, is quite likely to have been created using the MA. it is possible that the only difference between your 'content and fanfic' will be that one was produced by someone who happens to work for NCSoft.
In terms of storylines, we already have what you could call dev-sanctioned in-canon fanfic. The Troy Hickman arc wasn't written by an NCSoft employee, and that piece of fiction even produced an actual ingame architectural change (as well as the arc itself).
Basically, what I'm saying is:
Your ridiculous impliance of:
Player created content=bad
is, well, ridiculous.
If you don't like to (or don't have the ability to) read, just say so. Don't hide behind a ludicrous blanket dismissal of the creative quality of a lot of players. Be proud of your preferences. Say "I don't like narrative. Reading's for sissies and stories are for children. I like to hit stuff and see numbers go up".
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and no one forces you to do those types of missions. enough is enough already.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I'm forced to spend 15+ minutes looking for a damn mission in order to NOT do a farm in the AE. It's completely ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is [censored]. I can find a non-farm in a heart beat. Do you even read the arc descriptions? It's pretty obvious which ones are farms and which are not.
Or maybe you just can't read... good?
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh and don't forget the MA Arc finder channel. And all the arc listings right here in the forums.
Don't blame farm missions for the poorly designed interface we are currently using for search functionality.
Can't everyone just play the damn game and leave other people alone. Tired of Idiot X shouting LF AE, then try /ignore. I came back after a year away from game and all I can ever read in the forums now is a bunch of whiners. Farms are not an exploit, rikti comm officers yes clearly they were giving too much xp for the effort. But they were doing it for a number of issues prior to MA coming out. You could hop around RWZ aggo'ing the mobs and taking out the portals back in the day for quick xp/inf. Just because some people optimize their game play and take the time to learn more of the intracies of the game does not make their play style an exploit.
[ QUOTE ]
The Troy Hickman arc
[/ QUOTE ]
Where the animals marched up the gangplank two by two...and I had the biggest barbecue in history...
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
[ QUOTE ]
Player created content=bad
is, well, ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, but 98% of them are trash. Yeah, no thanks. I don't even read the CANON content the devs give us. I don't like to "waste" my time doing that. I could just read Paragonwiki for the info.
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't like to (or don't have the ability to) read, just say so. Don't hide behind a ludicrous blanket dismissal of the creative quality of a lot of players. Be proud of your preferences. Say "I don't like narrative. Reading's for sissies and stories are for children. I like to hit stuff and see numbers go up".
[/ QUOTE ]
The "don't have the ability to" part is a nice touch on the insult there. But, really, I expected more. I'm quite disappointed.
Also, as for the rest of that sentence, I've already stated that if I wanted a story, I'd go read a book. If I wanted the lore of this game, there are a good group of people that have already done that for me and oh....it's located in Paragonwiki. (Thanks Coh Titan)
For you to expect everyone to go and "read" and "enjoy" the lolcontent from players is an absurd wishful thinking. Your self righteousness is as ridicolous as a despot wanting a whole country to abide by his way. Dictatorship is what it's called.
Like I said, all these "nerfs" and "fixes" to lolstopfarmers is really a losing battle. Sure, it'll be hindrance at first, but farmers adapt, and find another way. Then the cycle keeps going. It'll keep going until the devs are to a point where they've neutered the game that EVEN "self righteous despots" such as yourself won't be able play the game without noticing the changes that you will struggle to play the game as well. But, the I will give the devs the benefit of the doubt. Farming isn't going anywhere and they won't neuter this game to that point.
While there are indeed some really talented writers in the community the majority myself most likely included blow large uneven chunks. Even those with high ratings and low arc numbers that spam the MA channel with their mediocore "ads" blow too. 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Troy Hickman arc
[/ QUOTE ]
Where the animals marched up the gangplank two by two...and I had the biggest barbecue in history...
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. I summoned The Hickman! Don't I get a badge, or something, for that?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Troy Hickman arc
[/ QUOTE ]
Where the animals marched up the gangplank two by two...and I had the biggest barbecue in history...
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. I summoned The Hickman! Don't I get a badge, or something, for that?
Eco
[/ QUOTE ]
Sadly, no. Just a severe beating with a knotted rope.
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
[ QUOTE ]
Problem: Apparently the DEVS don't consider Farms and Farming in MArch acceptable. Period. You're going to have to convince THEM, first.
[/ QUOTE ]
I tend to look at what people do, not what they say, to determine what they believe. Through their inaction, the devs have tacitly condoned farming. The token measures they've taken to stop it are laughable.
Alternatively, maybe they do find farming unacceptable, but their definition of farming is substantially different than what the hall-monitor set consider to be farming. Meow may be farming in their minds, but all boss outdoor maps may not be. If they do think that an all boss outdoor map is unacceptable maybe they should, you know, remove the option from MA, like they did with Rikti comm officers.