[ QUOTE ]
However, supergroup bases are nigh useless. You get teleporters and storage. Crafting tables and enhancement tables. But what is the point? So a group of leaders can decorate the base like The Sims?
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I'll give you some comic book examples of what bases are and why we have them.
Avengers Mansion
Baxter Building
Justice League Satellite
X-Mansion
Titans Tower
Batcave
That's just a few. Why do those heroes have them? Simple. That's where they plan out their business. It's where they gather to discuss matters of importance for the group. Their bases are where they store their stuff until its needed. Its where they come up with new stuff.
Those are all viable deals that exist within the framework of the game for bases, things that you don't seem to realize they do.
It's part of the superhero genre and has been for decades. 
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
What I'm trying to say is . . . Don't you want MORE?
Seems like this was a really great idea but was never expanded on.
Sonic, hon....
We've been asking for more since august of 2007
Since then, there've been changes..... some controversial changes. Not necessarily the changes we were hoping for, and even with the changes that have been made, they barely made a dent in the list.
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
While I agree bases could use some more love and anything they want to give me over what I have now I will take. But they are by no means useless...
1. My base offers Time Travel through my control room (no idea that has to go in there but it does). Okay anyone with a Ouro Portal can simply go to Ouroborus and time travel but by getting that mission, especially a timed badge mission like say Negotiator, at the base instead of being transported to the contact who may be in another city zone entirely the SG members can teleport to the zone the mission is in and save themselves some zoning and some time to actually complete the mission.
2. Teleport. Sure we now have the Ouro portal that drops us in several zones and usually in very convenient locations so we can easily hit the train. You can add the Midnighter Club which allows access from Steel to Croatoa to Founders Falls. Many folks now even have the Mission Teleporter which allows you to arrive right at the door of the mission (although that can only be used once every 90 minute to 2 hours I believe) but an SG that has all 22 beacons and teleport to every one of those zones increases the speed with which a hero can get from one place to another which comes in very handy when on a long Task Force or if you happen to be a casual player that only has X amount of hours a week to try and level. I use all those systems to get where I need to as fast as possible and the one that gets used the most because it gets me anywhere is the base.
3. Infirmary. Okay I arrive still practically dead but at my bases, and PLENTY of others, I now have access to an AUTO DOC and/or a series of Inspiration collectors that allow me, EVEN on a TF or Trial, to replace any inspirations I used up before I needed a trip to the hospital. Once again this offers any SG member a huge advantage in leveling.
4. Crafting and IO storage Yes these exsit outside of bases but at select locations. If an SG has an IO Vault and an IO workstation any member can quickly be at a vault and a crafting table from any zone in the game.
5. Social Events Okay my SG is not big on Role Play.. not opposed to it but we don't have to be "in character" 100% of the time we are on line. And OMG we exist on Virtue .. I am so ashamed LOL But bases when decorated well provide all sorts of environments for RPer. Heck my bases have a disco, a pool (with bar) Sleeping quarters, a dining facility, a training area (that includes a small rifle range, Boxing/MA ring, and an obstacle course), A mages den (for studying spells and crafting potions), a small garden, a hanger with aircraft (thanks to vet rewards), a library, and even a smoker's lounge or more accurately a trophy room with a bar (non alcoholic beverages only of course LOL). Many HUGE SGs actually have parties in their bases and invite as many players as they can get on 8 man teams to join them there.
Can any player exist and survive without belonging to an SG at all? Sure they can and do but saying bases are useless denies all that I just listed above. Yes a player can level without any of it but it goes a little faster and easier IF the SG base has any or all of the features I mentioned.
Now GIVE ME
1. The ability to buy DO/SO in base.. a small store of our very own (Yeah I know never going to happen)
2. Access to the Mission Archetect so my members can go there and at least create missions in relative peace and quiet (sort of doubt that one will ever happen either)
3. Access directly to the Midnighter Club through a special portal or whatever. At present if I am in PI with one of my 50 levels and want to join an ITF I need to hit my base, teleport to Steel, FF, or Croatoa, then get to the club before I can access the portal there to get to Cimerora. I am NOT asking for a Cimerora beacon just a way to get any SG member that belongs to the Midnighters to the club without multiple Zonings.
As for base raids.. I never quite understood that whole mentality other than another way to PvP. IF heroes could invade villain bases I could see that or vis versa. I can even see two rival villain groups attacking one another but I never quite got the mentality that justified two hero groups raiding one another and stealing or destroying the other groups stuff. Sure in comic books some hereos don't get along well with other heroes but here the same two groups that attack one another could be on a task force together an hour later. If we are all fighting for justice and battling evil why are we trying to destroy one another?
I'll be honest even if they EVER get that feature fixed I will never make my bases raid ready. I spent too many hours collecting the prestige needed to buy and build what we have to allow someone to come in and damage, destroy or take it..and then I Have to spend more prestige to make it all look the same way again? Sorry I don't want to play. Give me a TF like Silver Mantis (COV) side that members of MY SG, along with anyone else we invite to team, can do from the base.. sure that's more content I'd go for that.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
If it were only that simple..
They talked about doing some more work on bases, once semi-recently prior to I13 and back before that, "way back in the day".
I had to dig through some really old and dusty bookmarks to find this because its been so long.
Ok, It was semi-recently mentioned in a Massively.com article: "CoX Issue 13: All your base are belong to us?" by Adrian Bott, Jun 5th 2008 at 1:30PM
[ QUOTE ]
"The former Lord Recluse, Serdar Copur, first mentioned that 'both Supergroups and Bases will be getting some much needed love over the next few updates' [u]as long ago as April '07.[u]"
[/ QUOTE ] That last underlined part was a link to this article: CoH Community Quiz: Serdar Copur Q&A by Dana Massey, 9 Apr 2007 12:42 pm
These 2 articles talk about most of the the major problems & proposed additions or changes regarding Bases, in practice it's been a serious example of "Be careful what you wish for!"
IMO, The best thing they've done so far as Bases - was turning of the idiotic "pathing", and we don't really know if that's gonna be permanent.
The revamped base raiding stuff they had originally worked up for I13 - according to some reports of the internal testing... Well it turned out to be a fat sack o' suck (I am paraphrasing of course)
We do know there would likely be 'mass riots' (in the Base Building Community) if they were to bring back "raid pathing" without some option to leave it OFF for those that don't have any interest in having there Bases raided, EVER.
The Devs/Testers seemed to realize just how badly the destruction of Base Items was gonna suck - for most players and especially - the idea of losing Prestige due to damage, and/or just how the "Repair Items" would actually work, and that ever presuming there was no (or very little) loss of Prestige when items are "destroyed" - having to go back into the Editor and replace stuff would SUCK - even if they somehow managed to leave the raid pathing mostly off = So that "stacking" would still work for those into decorating their bases...
And the idea of how generic and boring PvP raid bases would probably end up being - assuming they'd be built almost entirely for function. They'd probably be an eyesore, and players would quite likely come up with the "Ideal PvP Base Builds" - with min-maxed FotM "Raiding Bases" - where players wouldn't want to use storage/workshops (or store anything valuable there.
I say that because, What happens if someone destroys a Salvage Bin? Or even worse, what happens if someone destroys an Enhancement Table? That could very easily be an "I feel a disturbance in the Force" moment... That could get really ugly, really quick.
People could (in theory) lose an insane amount of time/effort/inf if an Enhancement Table was "destroyed" - and if they made Enhancement Tables & Salvage Bins "indestructible" people would try and take advantage of this using them for "Cover" and/or to protect other Base Items.
Which leads us right back into the "Abusive Bases" problems mentioned in the Massively article link above.
IDK what they're gonna do about it - the original design for Bases was flawed, they've fixed some of the biggest problems - like Rent (not just the most recent change to lower the Rent costs), I'm referring to the setup (prior to when Rent was just based on Plot Size/Type), where you had to pay Rent that was a percentage of your SG's "Net Worth"!
The are a bunch of problematic things that would have to be addressed - and some group of players would/will be unhappy no matter what they might/may come up with to solve the inherent problems - AND people would complain due to whatever part/areas/functions of Bases they choose to work on or expand on next...
And back to my original concern you have to be very careful when you ask for some "Love for Bases" example, this last time:
Pros: = They turned off raid pathing (or most of it) and the bounding boxes or whatever they're called (it's late - and I'm a bit tired).
Cons: = They took away our Base Salvage - And gave us a B.S. explanation for it.
I suspect that they intended to have us rebuild/recraft 'Destroyed' Base Items with more Invention Salvage each time, Because:
1. The PvP'ers they wanted to please, might balk at needing to play in SG Mode to get Base Salvage. AND
2. I'm pretty sure that while they were doing the internal testing - they were almost certainly burning through Base Salvage - while repairing/rebuilding WAY faster than they were getting it! That could become a real "bottleneck" & it seems like somebody figured switching to Invention Salvage would solve the problem - and would make a good Inf Sink...
I have almost no doubt they were gonna throw in some sort of Prestige or Inf Sink in there. I say that because they reduced the "Base Rent/Upkeep" to a fairly trivial amount, & I don't see them doing that for no reason, without tacking another "cost" in there somewhere. I also really suspect "Upkeep" was going to be a much bigger thing than it is now.
Suffice it to say I'm more than a little bit hesitant about asking for any sort of "love" around here. I'm concerned it might be the kind of "love" that you Do Not Want, like the sort of "love" a person might end up getting in prison or something. 
Did I go to far just then? well... Maybe a just a tad, *shrug* - I'm just trying to make a point.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
|
[ QUOTE ]
Avengers Mansion
Baxter Building
Justice League Satellite
X-Mansion
Titans Tower
Batcave
That's just a few. Why do those heroes have them? Simple. That's where they plan out their business. It's where they gather to discuss matters of importance for the group. Their bases are where they store their stuff until its needed. Its where they come up with new stuff.
Those are all viable deals that exist within the framework of the game for bases, things that you don't seem to realize they do.
It's part of the superhero genre and has been for decades.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes this is true. But how many stories in comics has the heroes been attacked in their base by their arch-enemies? Bases are often a focus of the stories. There should absolutely be more. I am so tired of joining sg's just to make prestige for the leader to do nothing but play base designer all the time. That's why I have a sg of my own for all my alts. This is an old concern brought up many times. But should still be addressed.
ARC # 2517 "Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting"
ARC# 102898 "The Great Sewer Rescue"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Avengers Mansion
Baxter Building
Justice League Satellite
X-Mansion
Titans Tower
Batcave
That's just a few. Why do those heroes have them? Simple. That's where they plan out their business. It's where they gather to discuss matters of importance for the group. Their bases are where they store their stuff until its needed. Its where they come up with new stuff.
Those are all viable deals that exist within the framework of the game for bases, things that you don't seem to realize they do.
It's part of the superhero genre and has been for decades.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes this is true. But how many stories in comics has the heroes been attacked in their base by their arch-enemies? Bases are often a focus of the stories. There should absolutely be more. I am so tired of joining sg's just to make prestige for the leader to do nothing but play base designer all the time. That's why I have a sg of my own for all my alts. This is an old concern brought up many times. But should still be addressed.
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Dunno how to tell you this, but until they turned off pathing in i13, Base Raids were available. You could do that. Because of the issues inherent in spawn points and pathing. I doubt that we'll see PvE combat in our bases anytime soon either.
Personally its not my cup of tea, but I can see why some people want that. Furthermore, most bases have been attacked, but to read in this forum sometimes, you'd think that every issue of every book had major fights inside the base of your favorite heroes. If you think about it, those are actually the exception and not the rule.
Yes, the X-Mansion was blown up however many times, but that's over the course of how many decades? The original Avengers Mansion was gutted by the Masters of Evil. The Baxter Building was blown up and eventually replaced by Four Freedoms Plaza. Yeah these things happen, but seriously, how often does this happen? Wasn't even once every couple years in most cases, so please stop trying to say that its the only thing making bases worthwhile.
As for bases being "useless" and only there for the SG Leader to play with, I dunno how to tell you this, but if you're not happy with what your leaders are spending Prestige on, you should communicate that to them. Every SG I've done base work for has had an open door policy for suggestions on what needed to be added. Once a consensus was reached, the editing and expansion began. Talk to your leaders and tell them you need x and y in your base to make the game better for you. Talk to your fellow SG members and see if they want whatever available feature you're looking for.
If that doesn't work, then perhaps you should be looking for a new SG instead of just complaining that bases are useless. If you're not willing to do that, then you have to just have patience and wait for the PvP raids to start again or for them to figure out how to do PvE raids.
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
Er, attacking a group's base has never been a "regular" occurance in comics.
Seriously, think about it.
It happens, yes, but almost always as part of a massive team-altering storyline designed to shake up rosters and plotlines.
It's inherantly a shocking event. Fighting opponents out in the field is one thing. But in your own base? That's home. It provokes outrage and emotional response like few other actions do short of a team member dying.
You don't actually see it happen THAT much over the course of most comic series runs, mostly because authors realize that doing it too often cheapens and blunts the impact of the occurance.
One thing I would like to see happen is for the Mission Computer to be used to access Mission Architect. Currently it doesn't do much of anything.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
I have sympathy. I (and many others here) have posted suggestions for additional SG facilities.
I would love some SG Mission Computer based story arcs& TFs, I'd love SG Bulletin boards, voting systems, NPCs, Tailors, etc etc.
Unfortunately the devs have one thing in mind with bases and that is PvP. So I don't expect much attention to be given to bases until they have got that working.
Dont hold your breath
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
message to the OP-
come by for a visit.
It will change the way you feel about bases being useless.
oh yeah, we are way overdue for some sg luv. big time. I plan on stinking up the place until the devs either kill me or give us our much needed love.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Er, attacking a group's base has never been a "regular" occurance in comics.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can only think of a few occurrences, and even then, it wasn't heroes attacking heroes.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
Only one that comes to mind for me off the top of my head is Teen Titans attacking the X-Mansion in the Titans/X-Men crossover from the first batch of Marvel/DC crossovers 25+ years ago. And that obviously isn't considered canon, as it takes place outside the normal continuity of either universe.
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
Tho i agree with most that is said here i think (hope) the dev's realize that bases might have been intended for PvP but looking at most of the post, base designing is HUGE.
The single best thing about this game is customization and tho somewhat limited bases are a great example of that. I have seen some outrageous looking bases and only wonder if they would give us a better tool for customizing what possibilities there would be. Like creating half walls, walls, themed window s. The ability to change color of objects. Not that I am a SIMS fan but if we could do that to our bases. My GOD the creations would be endless.
And for those like myself who don't do base raiding. Simple create base plot for BASE RAID an NO BASE RAID. Have a storage room that can only hold storage an nothing else so they couldn't destroy your enhancement table. Better yet give us a door option or a second floor personal rooms where you have personal storage that cant be destroyed. If you place in base storage then you run the risk. There are TONS of possibilities and hundreds of post listed by countless and far wiser people then me in base raiding that have voiced their opinion.
I guess best said is we are asking the dev's to just listen and execute!
�One of the best lessons children learn through video games is standing still will get them killed quicker than anything else�
I guess best said is we are asking the dev's to just listen and execute!
and leting us know they hear us would be nice.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
QR
A couple invasions I can remember is Raz breaking into the batcave and putting batty in his place. Another was Magneto breaking into the XMansion, kidnaping ProfX and taking the entire room with him to outer space before ProfX could even react. I think the sentinels paid a visit to the Xmansion several times but that's even really a fight inside the "base".
Either way both encounters were sooo short unlike the 1 hour fights that base raids seem to be.
But to the OP. Bases still serve a purpose. Not much but it does. Since we dont need to be in the base to make plans or whatever it limits the needs for the base itself. But it's still good to have one even if the functions are so limited.
Does the community want more. Yes. We want more and we have been asking for some for a very long time now.
Seems that I have said something I didn't really mean. I in no way think that bases are USELESS, as definitly serve a purpose. I was just saying...I'd really like to see something done with bases...
[ QUOTE ]
I was just saying...I'd really like to see something done with bases...
[/ QUOTE ]
Not trying to give you a hard time here Sonic, but there is something you need to realize and accept, and that is that what you may want for bases isn't necessarily what everyone else wants.
You may like base raids and PvP, but there are a lot more of players that prefer to see bases get other things first.
[ QUOTE ]
Seems that I have said something I didn't really mean. I in no way think that bases are USELESS, as definitly serve a purpose. I was just saying...I'd really like to see something done with bases...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think mostly we all understood, we're all just as frustrated as you are and sort of went off on our favorite rant.
You just provided this season's ammo thread. No harm, no foul.
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You know, could be an interesting take and have bases available as mission maps..... just a thought.
Aren't most bases a bit small for the whole mission map bit? I'd love to show my base off more.. but trying to run a mission there would be a little.. crowded.. 0.o
[ QUOTE ]
You know, could be an interesting take and have bases available as mission maps..... just a thought.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because of AI issues and pathing, as well as spawn point problems that would likely arise, this probably isn't particularly likely under the current system.
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Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
[ QUOTE ]
You know, could be an interesting take and have bases available as mission maps..... just a thought.
[/ QUOTE ]
this would work if it were arena map
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
[ QUOTE ]
You know, could be an interesting take and have bases available as mission maps..... just a thought.
[/ QUOTE ]
I personally love this idea. A few friends & I have talked about this for a while now. It would make a great map option for the MA. Maybe if they set limits as to the plot size & how many rooms are in the base being used.
I just wish they would make MA available through the Mission Computer, and allow SG Exclusive Arcs that can be accessed through the Mission Computer.
Black-Strike: lvl 50 AR/Dark Corruptor
Brutally Beautiful: lvl 50 BA/Inv Brute
Seared Earth: lvl 50 EC/EA Dominator
Yashi Onuku: lvl 50 Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker
Death-Widow: lvl 50 Night Widow
Supergroups are a pretty big deal in this game. Most of our global friends, teams, taskforces, and other activities are done with Supergroup members and Coalation members. Supergroups are a great addition to the game, adding a feel of community.
However, supergroup bases are nigh useless. You get teleporters and storage. Crafting tables and enhancement tables. But what is the point? So a group of leaders can decorate the base like The Sims?
When you think of the Justice League base, it's pretty important. They get their missions, they train, and have meetings. So why not in City of Heroes? Bases need WORK. I myself have never been big on decorating bases. I tried it once, but I just felt like it wasn't worth it. Bases need at least a whole issue. Missions, Taskforces, SUPER stuff. Also, fix BASE RAIDS. Half the fun of having a base would be FIGHTING in it, defending it, except that half the CoH population never got to experience because it is yet to be fixed. Cathedral of Pain trial, something to do with your SUPERGROUP. Silver Mantis SF has nothing to do with your base...in fact I'm not really sure why it's in the Base. We need something EPIC.
Supergroup bases should be SUPER. Not Convenient stores.