New "Market Myths" Guide?
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-05-29 10:45 in The Market and Inventions
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Hell, Goat, you could have even asked me what specifically I didnt LIKE about it and how YOU could help, look at my questions and posts elsewhere in this forum, I take advice VERY receptively even on things I really dont like only because I cant quite figure them out.
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I guess I could, but...
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Not a market "hater" per se, just feel like maybe it could use some work or a different system.
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Unless you're a fan of merging the markets, or abandoning the lame half measures of merits and tickets, we don't have much common ground.
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*Looks down at Goat's feet*
Hey, that ground is the same ground I'M standing on! lol
Yes! Yes! Oh for the love of HALLE BERRY yes they need to do something about the merit situation, and in MY opinion, the ticket situation too.
And for now, lets just agree to disagree about the market I guess.
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They did. They decided that some content awarded too many merits and some awarded not enough and they changed them.
They also saw that MA was over rewarding compared to the goals they set for it and changed that too. The changes made things take longer. That is the direction the devs wanted and the direction they went.
They did the same thing with merits. They went from the 10-20 minute Virgil/Katie/Eden standard to the 60 minute ITF standard. While it made the painfully long and boring content slightly more worthwhile the real goal was to increase the time it took to get the shineys by roughly triple on average.
Chances of making it quicker, as you want, or as it was during the Meow farms are pretty clearly NOT the direction the devs are heading now or any time in the near future.
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On the mood of the devs probably so. There are loopholes available that can get you considerably more merits/time so they may not be all of one mind on this.
<QR>
I think we should have a stock standard answer that we all use in reply to market-hating blow-ins. Or even the market-hating regulars, for that matter.
Something short and sweet like 'You're right!'
I reckon that should cut down the complaints pretty quickly. Hard to sustain an argument against people that agree with you. Maybe we can come up with a backronym that describes our real argument.
I like your idea but I fear it could somehow result in the devs changing things believing it.
How about rather than refuting them with facts we just answer them with "You're wrong" or "No it isn't"?
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Myth: "Casual" players can't afford stuff because of evil marketeers
Fact: etc etc
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Might also be a good idea to point out that marketeering is one of the easiest ways to make money for a casual player. Hell, I've made 150 million or so over the past week, and the only time I've done anything in-game but sit around and RP was a few hours spent missioning a new corruptor up to level 8. Also that casuals, moreso than anybody else, might have the best opportunities for low prices because they won't mind waiting two days for a low bid to fill if they only play twice a week anyway.
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Maybe i should tell you how to make more, Just in the pass 3 days i made 300mil + and thats selling at lower then what the others sold for IE 1mil i sold on market for 800k each and i got lucky and sold some for a mil did this for 3 days and i io'd my tank out,
Nothings gonna be easy you just have to work at it just like you do when you make a new AT it takes time, Unless your farmed to bad you cant farm the market, Then again i do,
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How about rather than refuting them with facts we just answer them with "You're wrong" or "No it isn't"?
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these two phrases have been my succor in many a dark market thread over the years.
=(
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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If you instead come into our back yard that has immaculate landscaping we spent 4 years of careful cultivation and immediately say," Those rose flowers smell funny, I only want periwinkle blue ones, with out thorns, that smell like pancakes and syrup. I don't want to have to use fertilizer, weed, or in other ways dig in the dirt because dirt diggers are second class citizens. Oh and I want all this in 2 days capice?"
GET OUTTA MY YARD!
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There's a childrens' book that my family loves called "Bear and Bunny Grow Tomatoes." In it, Bear and Bunny both decide to grow tomatoes. Bear spends all summer expending massive amounts of effort and attention to his tomato garden. Bunny dumps a packet of seed on the ground, and spends the rest of the summer relaxing and having pool parties.
When harvest time comes, Bear has grown way more tomatoes than he can use, and gives a bunch to Bunny, who of course can't even find his garden. In the end, they both got a lot of ripe, delicious tomatoes.
In CoH, you can be Bunny. The players with a Bearish approach to the game generate more assets than they can reasonably use themselves. It's true that some low amount of effort is usually required to get the benefit of all that surplus, but it's really not hard in my experience.
90% of what people say here is true , the market is a tool and it should be "usable" by all. the one thing I cannot stand and makes my extremely irritated with is gougers. They buy the entire market of lets say Spell Scrolls ( A common low level salvage ) for 5000 then put all of it back up for 100,000. Now all low level players cannot make any Endurance related IO unless they find there own salvage.
This just happend to me less than 5 minutes ago, all I want to do is make level 20 End Mod IO's on my friends scrapper ( he is new to CoX ) and I can't because of the market gougers.
These are not common flippers who double or even tripple which is fine, I dont' mind people making money at my expense if its reasonable . I do mind people gouging me for 500% markup on items they cornered the market on. these are the same type of people $100 a bottle of water after an earthquake.
You can flame me back all you want, but this is the feeling most of my SG have and the majority of out global channels judging by the conversation last night.
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90% of what people say here is true , the market is a tool and it should be "usable" by all. the one thing I cannot stand and makes my extremely irritated with is gougers. They buy the entire market of lets say Spell Scrolls ( A common low level salvage ) for 5000 then put all of it back up for 100,000. Now all low level players cannot make any Endurance related IO unless they find there own salvage.
This just happend to me less than 5 minutes ago, all I want to do is make level 20 End Mod IO's on my friends scrapper ( he is new to CoX ) and I can't because of the market gougers.
These are not common flippers who doble or even tripple which is fine, I dont' mind people making money at my expense if its reasonable . I do mind people gouging me for 500% markup on items they cornered the market on. these are the same type of people $100 a bottle of water after an earthquake.
You can flame me back all you want, but this is the feeling most of my SG have and the majority of out global channels judging by the conversation last night.
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Why can't the low level player simply place a bid and go do something else?
Also, how do you know they bought up the low supply and relisted it? If people are badge crafting they buy it up and use it which leaves only the extremely expensive ones out there that people place there to see if it will sell.
In a nutshell, you are assuming an awful lot with no means to support your assumptions.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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90% of what people say here is true , the market is a tool and it should be "usable" by all. the one thing I cannot stand and makes my extremely irritated with is gougers. They buy the entire market of lets say Spell Scrolls ( A common low level salvage ) for 5000 then put all of it back up for 100,000. Now all low level players cannot make any Endurance related IO unless they find there own salvage.
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Sure they can. What someone who does this means is that you can't build that IO right now.
If you're bid creeping and can't get what you want for a price you think is reasonable, leave a bid you do think is reasonable out there and check on it in the morning or after your next mission, or whenever. If the price is never showing up as what you think is reasonable after a few days, then apparently the market isn't agreeing with your idea of "reasonable" pricing for that good.
But if it's really a case of such a gouger, it's very rare for them to keep you from getting that salvage within a day.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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90% of what people say here is true , the market is a tool and it should be "usable" by all. the one thing I cannot stand and makes my extremely irritated with is gougers. They buy the entire market of lets say Spell Scrolls ( A common low level salvage ) for 5000 then put all of it back up for 100,000. Now all low level players cannot make any Endurance related IO unless they find there own salvage.
This just happend to me less than 5 minutes ago, all I want to do is make level 20 End Mod IO's on my friends scrapper ( he is new to CoX ) and I can't because of the market gougers.
These are not common flippers who doble or even tripple which is fine, I dont' mind people making money at my expense if its reasonable . I do mind people gouging me for 500% markup on items they cornered the market on. these are the same type of people $100 a bottle of water after an earthquake.
You can flame me back all you want, but this is the feeling most of my SG have and the majority of out global channels judging by the conversation last night.
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Why can't the low level player simply place a bid and go do something else?
Also, how do you know they bought up the low supply and relisted it? If people are badge crafting they buy it up and use it which leaves only the extremely expensive ones out there that people place there to see if it will sell.
In a nutshell, you are assuming an awful lot with no means to support your assumptions.
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because I can see bunches of 5001 price buyouts that weren't there 30 minutes ago , I then put money down all the way up to 100,000 and could not buy 1. Because the person who did it bragged about it in the channel which caused the discussion last night.
I think the Dev's should make Salvage available at the Uni much like the IO recipes, this way I can pay cheaper at WW or a high fixed price if I don't want to play this gouging game.
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90% of what people say here is true , the market is a tool and it should be "usable" by all. the one thing I cannot stand and makes my extremely irritated with is gougers. They buy the entire market of lets say Spell Scrolls ( A common low level salvage ) for 5000 then put all of it back up for 100,000. Now all low level players cannot make any Endurance related IO unless they find there own salvage.
This just happend to me less than 5 minutes ago, all I want to do is make level 20 End Mod IO's on my friends scrapper ( he is new to CoX ) and I can't because of the market gougers.
These are not common flippers who doble or even tripple which is fine, I dont' mind people making money at my expense if its reasonable . I do mind people gouging me for 500% markup on items they cornered the market on. these are the same type of people $100 a bottle of water after an earthquake.
You can flame me back all you want, but this is the feeling most of my SG have and the majority of out global channels judging by the conversation last night.
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Why can't the low level player simply place a bid and go do something else?
Also, how do you know they bought up the low supply and relisted it? If people are badge crafting they buy it up and use it which leaves only the extremely expensive ones out there that people place there to see if it will sell.
In a nutshell, you are assuming an awful lot with no means to support your assumptions.
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because I can see bunches of 5001 price buyouts that weren't there 30 minutes ago , I then put money down all the way up to 100,000 and could not buy 1. Because the person who did it bragged about it in the channel which caused the discussion last night.
I think the Dev's should make Salvage available at the Uni much like the IO recipes, this way I can pay cheaper at WW or a high fixed price if I don't want to play this gouging game.
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Common salvage costs 8 MA tickets. You have a 1 in 6 chance for each 8 tickets to get the one you want.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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because I can see bunches of 5001 price buyouts that weren't there 30 minutes ago , I then put money down all the way up to 100,000 and could not buy 1. Because the person who did it bragged about it in the channel which caused the discussion last night.
I think the Dev's should make Salvage available at the Uni much like the IO recipes, this way I can pay cheaper at WW or a high fixed price if I don't want to play this gouging game.
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Don't worry, the whiners have won again. Patch notes for i15 say you can buy common salvage with tickets now.
BTW, if you'd waited a few minutes with a buy order up for 5002, you could have gotten a whole stack. Don't blame the market or the gouger for your impatience and short-sightedness. If everyone just left their 5002 orders up instead of creeping up to 100k, they'd never sell at 100k, he'd be out his listing fees and relisting lower. But I guess that just makes too much sense. Must have it NAO!!!
Dictator_MM: Why can't you put a bid at 5002 (or be conservative and put it at 6002) and wait 30 minutes? After all, a lot were available to buy at 5001 in the LAST 30 minutes, chances are there'll be a lot available to buy at 5002 in the NEXT 30 minutes*.
* unless of course the servers went down for maint and stayed down for 2 hours.
"Patient bidding" in this game is often a matter of minutes. I had something where I wanted three of something, but I wanted one RIGHT NOW. I don't know, probably Masterwork Weapons or something. I put up a bid for 5908 for two of them, kept bidding until I paid 40K or something for the third. By the time I got back from the SG base with my freshly crafted item... the 5908's had filled.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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because I can see bunches of 5001 price buyouts that weren't there 30 minutes ago , I then put money down all the way up to 100,000 and could not buy 1
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sounds like you should have put up some 5002 bids 30 minutes ago. If you were willing to pay 100k on a buy it now price the real problem is your poor impulse control and lack of patience.
If you go to the store to by a new tv for $1000 and take exactly that with you. Once you arrive you find you if you wait til tomorrow you can save over a $100 on it. Do you buy it now because you have the money on you or do you wait and save the money? There are plenty of both kinds of people in the world but I don't think stores will change how they work because you aren't willing to wait a day.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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because I can see bunches of 5001 price buyouts that weren't there 30 minutes ago , I then put money down all the way up to 100,000 and could not buy 1. Because the person who did it bragged about it in the channel which caused the discussion last night.
I think the Dev's should make Salvage available at the Uni much like the IO recipes, this way I can pay cheaper at WW or a high fixed price if I don't want to play this gouging game.
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Don't worry, the whiners have won again. Patch notes for i15 say you can buy common salvage with tickets now.
BTW, if you'd waited a few minutes with a buy order up for 5002, you could have gotten a whole stack. Don't blame the market or the gouger for your impatience and short-sightedness. If everyone just left their 5002 orders up instead of creeping up to 100k, they'd never sell at 100k, he'd be out his listing fees and relisting lower. But I guess that just makes too much sense. Must have it NAO!!!
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Whiners? You wonder why you need these threads? Its this attitude that is why the doubter wont ever change their minds
I mean come on, is this really reasonable?
Gouging
Edit:
For the record I am not a doubter, I play the market too and I enjoy it. Like I said 2x 3x or even 4x the item value is fine , its the extreme gougers that annoy me and ruin the Market name in general.
Read my sig.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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because I can see bunches of 5001 price buyouts that weren't there 30 minutes ago , I then put money down all the way up to 100,000 and could not buy 1. Because the person who did it bragged about it in the channel which caused the discussion last night.
I think the Dev's should make Salvage available at the Uni much like the IO recipes, this way I can pay cheaper at WW or a high fixed price if I don't want to play this gouging game.
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Don't worry, the whiners have won again. Patch notes for i15 say you can buy common salvage with tickets now.
BTW, if you'd waited a few minutes with a buy order up for 5002, you could have gotten a whole stack. Don't blame the market or the gouger for your impatience and short-sightedness. If everyone just left their 5002 orders up instead of creeping up to 100k, they'd never sell at 100k, he'd be out his listing fees and relisting lower. But I guess that just makes too much sense. Must have it NAO!!!
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Whiners? You wonder why you need these threads? Its this attitude that is why the doubter wont ever change their minds
I mean come on, is this really reasonable?
Gouging
Edit:
For the record I am not a doubter, I play the market too and I enjoy it. Like I said 2x 3x or even 4x the item value is fine , its the extreme gougers that enoy me and ruin the Market name in general.
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He started this thread with the best of intentions and saw the influx of whining and gave up.
If facts won't sway people there's no point in discussing it with them.
I was buying what I needed all weekend for less than 2k yet everytime I went to the market to pick it up the last 5 was showing the common salvage I had bought stacks of was going for 100k or more.
You beat the gougers by being patient and never paying their prices. Ever.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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In CoH, you can be Bunny.
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why be bunnies when we can be GOATS!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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In CoH, you can be Bunny.
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why be bunnies when we can be GOATS!
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Now that reminds me of the "Three Bunnygoats Gruff" story I read when I was younger.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
r/e common & uncommon salvage:
My 'standard bid' during the MA interregnum has been 9001.
Whatever the 'last 5' say, however ridiculous (100k for a Masterwork Weapon? Ya rite!).
I bid 9001 and walk away.
The next day, there they are! Like magic!
Even though the stuff is "worth" 100k, or whatever!
It failed me once, I had to go up to 20k to get a couple of Ensorcelled Weapons.
But every other time I was able to pay 9k for stuff that was "worth" way more.
If I could force everyone to memorize one rule, it would be:
The market rewards patience.
Everyone who takes Fulmens sig to heart will have a much happier relationship with the market.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I mean come on, is this really reasonable?
Gouging
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Well, *I* think it's pretty unreasonable, but whoever was PAYING up to 500k apparently found it reasonable ENOUGH to get one "NAO!!!" Presumably a bunch of other people waited a few hours and got theirs for a reasonable fee.
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I think we should have a stock standard answer that we all use in reply to market-hating blow-ins. Or even the market-hating regulars, for that matter.
Something short and sweet like 'You're right!'
I reckon that should cut down the complaints pretty quickly. Hard to sustain an argument against people that agree with you. Maybe we can come up with a backronym that describes our real argument.
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I humbly suggest "You're right -- now fetch me a [noun]" or "You're right -- now deliver this [noun]."
(Which is, of course, a sly wink towards Progress Quest since these "quests" aren't quite as easy in CoX! And of course, bonus points for "now fetch me a LotG Recharge!") 
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
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Whiners? You wonder why you need these threads? Its this attitude that is why the doubter wont ever change their minds
I mean come on, is this really reasonable?
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The flow of the market, the levels of pre planning and resource management needed to make effective use of it suits some people well.
If it doesn't suit you well and you aren't happy about it well you must be a whiner.
What the market crumudgeons don't get, is that they are a minority and the devs are moving the game towards the majority. Instead of proposing useful ideas (To be fair some have a market merger would be a very good thing) they keep shouting at people "YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG".
They never get the fact, that people do know how to do it correctly they just don't like it. So what happens ? Every issue we see another ham handed nerf to the game untill the marketeers will be a left with a market that is about as enjoyable as PVP is.
Common salvage gone, well that makes life easier for most people. Can direct purchase of recipes with tickets be far off ?
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The market rewards patience.
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Its a video game, Patience isnt the prime characteristic of the demographic.
If you want to appeal to patient people troll the Chess forums or the Go Boards.
it's cute that you think I still waste my time reading your drivel.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Hell, Goat, you could have even asked me what specifically I didnt LIKE about it and how YOU could help, look at my questions and posts elsewhere in this forum, I take advice VERY receptively even on things I really dont like only because I cant quite figure them out.
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I guess I could, but...
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Not a market "hater" per se, just feel like maybe it could use some work or a different system.
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Unless you're a fan of merging the markets, or abandoning the lame half measures of merits and tickets, we don't have much common ground.
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*Looks down at Goat's feet*
Hey, that ground is the same ground I'M standing on! lol
Yes! Yes! Oh for the love of HALLE BERRY yes they need to do something about the merit situation, and in MY opinion, the ticket situation too.
And for now, lets just agree to disagree about the market I guess.
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They did. They decided that some content awarded too many merits and some awarded not enough and they changed them.
They also saw that MA was over rewarding compared to the goals they set for it and changed that too. The changes made things take longer. That is the direction the devs wanted and the direction they went.
They did the same thing with merits. They went from the 10-20 minute Virgil/Katie/Eden standard to the 60 minute ITF standard. While it made the painfully long and boring content slightly more worthwhile the real goal was to increase the time it took to get the shineys by roughly triple on average.
Chances of making it quicker, as you want, or as it was during the Meow farms are pretty clearly NOT the direction the devs are heading now or any time in the near future.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson