New "Market Myths" Guide?
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-05-29 10:45 in The Market and Inventions
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Milady's
All the lecturing and browbeating in the world doesn't change the fact that many don't like the market and don't think it meshes well with the rest of the game.
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What you call lecturing I call pointing out facts, separating conjecture, and specious rhetoric chopping. Which I am about to demonstrate once again.
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That is no myth.
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What you are touting as fact is myth. What you are doing is extrapolating with out facts. You feel that you dislike the market, see a few other people that dislike it and extrapolate your tiny sample size into epic proportions.
Prove your "many". Or start even smaller than that. Define your idea of "many" before you set out to prove it.
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The devs in recent issues seem to have seen fit to accomodate that. Instead of trying to argue these people into liking the market, its probably best to try and think of ways that the market can be made better for everyone.
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First off why? I don't believe there are many. I believe that there are few. I believe that there are far fewer marketphobes than there are marketphiles and that the majority of the player base falls somewhere in between.
It's not my job to try to make the folks that don't like the market like it, nor is it my job to fix what they perceive to be broken about it, especially since I don't agree that it is.
You yourself admit that the devs have give those that dislike the market the tools to avoid it.
Like it or not it all boils down to this:
Marketphobe, "I want an LotG +7.5."
Marketphile, "Ok, that's easy go to the market and take 5 minutes to do "X." Do "X" once a day for 4 weeks and put in a bid for what you want."
After that it breaks down into what Nethergoat refers to as whining.
Marketphobe thinks one of these:
A) I shouldn't have to use the market to get "X."
B) Using the market to get "X" takes too long."
C) I should be able to play the game "normally" to get "X"
Marketphile responds:
A) You don't have to. Run taskforces for merits or AE content for tickets and make random rolls.
B) You don't have to. Run taskforces for merits or AE content for tickets and make random rolls.
C) You can run story arc content for merits and make random rolls. By the way, if it was added to the game, and not an exploit, it IS "normal" content.
Marketphobe
A) I don't have time to run taskforces.
B) Merits and tickets take LONGER than using the market and random rolls don't get me exactly what I want each time.
C) Story arc content takes even LONGER than taskforces.
Marketphile
A) You can craft and sell while you are off line. It doesn't take any of your gaming time at all that way.
B) Then roll up an AoE toon and go kill stuff and sell the drops. Level 50 Fire/kins can make 5 million or more an hour.
C) Then solo flashback on arc "X" in Oro. It puts out merits at task force rates but you can do it in 20 minutes. Save up 250 and buy exactly what you want.
Marketphobe
A) I HATE THE MARKET I DON'T WANT TO USE IT AT ALL!!!
B) THAT'S FARMING I DON'T WANT TO FARM!!!
C) I CAN'T SOLO I DON'T LIKE IT, I CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANY IOS AND 250 MERITS FOR MY LotG IS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!!
This point at which the marketphobe gets called a whiner.
There are lots and lots of tools in the game now to let you get what ever you want with out using the market. Your problem is that the fastest way is the way you hate and you think it should be just as easy using any of the other tools.
If the devs agreed with this they would have made the other tools just as fast or faster out of the box. They would have left the Meow farms in the AE alone. They would have left the per mission ticket cap off of the AE missions. They haven't. This is not the market forum's fault nor is it the fault of the marketeers.
It's not our fault or problem that you don't want to use ANY of the tools that exist in the game or that you have some sort of excuse as to why you shouldn't have to use them when everyone else does. They are same tools that everyone else uses at the same speed that everyone else can use them. You just don't want to put forth the amount of effort it takes to use them to get what you want.
Wanting to get stuff faster than everyone else can IS having a sense of entitlement. Wanting stuff but not wanting to put the work in required to get it falls into the same category.
How many more tools do the devs have to put in and how much more development time will be required before you are happy?
Will you ever be happy with any of the tools they provide if it isn't a store where you can go and get exactly what you want after running one easy taskforce in 20 minutes? It's an MMO. Why do you think you should be able to interact with others on a team or a task force but then at the same time feel that you shouldn't have to interact with those same people in a market?
Marketphobe reasoning makes no sense to me.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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And, I wasn't really implying that people were "lying" per se, just that they talk about making TONS of Inf, then turn around and tell people they don't need Inf.
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Once you have tons of inf you don't need it. Everyone starts with the same thing, 2 level 1 damage TOs, and 2 large inspirations. From there it's up to you to do as you want. Some peope play one toon and never alt. every resource that they earn goes into that one uber toon.
Alting or not is your choice. You shouldn't expect to have every IO you want on 5 alts unless you play 5 times as much as the guy that doesn't alt.
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And basically claim that that people can have just as much fun without any "shinies" whatsoever.
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You can. We all did for nine issues it wasn't a sucky game and is only now fun because IOs are in it. It may be MORE fun with IOs but it isn't any less fun than before they were added.
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Like, using all SO's or whatever - which I tend to call B.S. on for two reasons:
1. They DO have some "pimped out toons they can play if they want...
2. Saying that playing without "shinies" is just as much fun as playing with them - is oxymoronic.
IMO, that would be basically be like saying that "shinies" aren't "shiny".
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I have 2 toons that are SO'd out only and one toon that is a mix of SOs and Hamis. They are just as much fun now as they were when I was leveling them and I still play them.
Adding shinies to them might be MORE fun but the toons that are still SO'd still function extremely well for my play style and their build, and they don't need any thing extra to be fun.
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Now... I'm not saying people can't enjoy the game without them, just that some people aren't 'practicing what they preach' (so to speak).
You don't fall into this category, you admit having toons you spent your Inf earnings on, AND that you have toons that you're frugal with - I understand that...
You're basically saying you have a your toons slotted in a variety of ways - which is all good (I do the same thing).
What ticks me off is the people that Do have toons with a bunch of shinys, (so they have the option of playing those toons)...
Who then proceed to tell other people they shouldn't be unhappy or disgruntled that they don't have the same option.
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This is what bugs me about posts like this. Yes I have several toons on different servers that are loaded to the gills with IOs. I use IO sets to get functionality that I wouldn't have with out them. I don't have full sets in all my powers on all my toons because sometimes some other mix is better for my concept and play style. I didn't start out with any uber IO'd toons. I have been working on my main since I9. I took the time to get my main set up exactly the way I want.
What bugs me is that people think that they shouldn't have to put in the same amount of effort that I did to get where I am. They do have exactly the same option as I do. Some of them have more since many of the IOs didn't exist when I started and key powers I had got nerfed and powers that I had no use for got buffed to make up for it.
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And usually they immediately accuse these people of not 'lrning2mrkt', or that they want everything for nothing, handed to them on a platter, "I win" button, etc.
It's really easy to look down on the have-nots when your a have-got & (IMO) that happens all too often around here.
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That's not the way it works. We don't look down on the have nots. We look down on the have nots that don't want to put forth the same amount of effort (no matter what part of the game that effort is applied to) that we did to become a have got and then turn around and claim that they will never be able to be a have got because they can't/won't put forth the effort we did to get there or that they can't get any leet loot because the marketeers have it all and won't let the "casual player" have any of it.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I know this has been beaten pretty flat, but STL_Heroes said:
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While I am a casual player I guess, I use the market, but really I hate it. I'm not the guy that stands in Wentworth's for hours at a time, no thats not me. I see those outrageous prices and think to myself "wow, so the only way to afford this is if I stand here all day and mess with this market, or farm. Dam cant I have fun AND afford to be "uber-super-mega-ultra" like the farmers and Market Fanatics?"
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If you spend hours doing things at the market, you're doing the wrong things.
I can show you something where you could pay more than the last 5, get an instant sale, craft, put it up for sale for less than the last 5 and more than double your money.
Last 5 recipes are selling for under 5 million, last 5 crafted are going for 15 million (13.5 after Went fees). I bought mine for 5.1 million and put the crafted it up for sale at 13.5- should sell quick, I'm under the "market price"- and if I get exactly what I ask for I make more than 6 million inf.
It hasn't sold yet, but that was literally a 5 minute transaction for me. Including the time to trot from the Steel Canyon Wents to the university and back.
Yes, there is a learning curve on the market, but once you put in a couple hours of learning, it's pretty quick.
I repeat: If you spend hours doing things at the market, you're doing the wrong things.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
::slow applause::
Well spoken, Milady's Knight. Well spoken indeed.
Shinies require effort. Whether that effort is learning to use the market, running AE missions and cashing tickets, taskforces, story arcs, or maybe just going to a hazard zone and shaking drops out of everything in sight. I have stacked zombies like cordwood in Astoria to get my billion influence build scrapper. (all hail Lord Nethergoat) It took effort. Lots of it.
Shinies require effort. It is what it is.
M'Teru couldn't get the job done. So she sent Mot to Astoria. Bad call.
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SOs (5 million?) 130
Cheapo frankenslotted (10 million?) 140 (2x cost, 8% better)
Cheapish set build (50 million?) 192? (10x cost, 48% better)
Cost no object (2 billion?) 244 (400x cost, 88% better)
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Those numbers sound about right to me Wer.
So, going by that my experimental stalker, who has 32 million inf at level 30 having done zero marketeering, just sellign drops and crafting commons from recipes and salvage that dropped for him, is already over halfway to being able to slot himself out with pretty good sets.
As usual, I don't see the rationale behind the poor-criers.
expensive stuff is expensive, sure, but literally everything else in the game is freely available to players who do nothing but sell their drops.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Fair enough. After a second look, I can see that you make some sufficiently backed statements until you said this:
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That they added merits and tickets at all to appease the crybabies and entitlement cases is a travesty...
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If this is factual, then what proof is there of it?
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Point A: They had to do something to address the discrepancy between Wentworth's and the Black Market.
Point B: They absolutely refuse the simplest, most obvious solution- merge the markets.
Point C: Merits/Tickets give them an 'out' when villain players ask why they're expected to pay more and wait longer for 'the good stuff' than their hero counterparts- "well, you can just grind merits/tickets". Purples aren't an issue since they only drop ~50, the only market strata where the BM supply is reasonable.
This may fall short of my standard of concrete fact, but it is IMHO the most reasonable explanation of why they would spend a lot of time and energy building an alternative supply chain when they already had a perfectly viable one in place.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I really dont understand HOW a person can make it to 30, let alone 50 without being insanely rich just from dumping their junk on the market rather than vendoring it, along with being smart enough to buy recipes and salvage rather than completed IOs
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Or put in lowball bids on crafted generics- remember kids, badgers are our friends!
I regularly get generics for less than their crafting cost, often MUCH less.
Stalker, played "casually", level 30, 30+ million just from selling his drops.
Unless you want to 'purple your warshade' the game provides more than enough $$$ for your needs, no farming or marketeering necessary.
And if you do want to purple your warshade, well, it's unreasonable to expect that won't take extra effort.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Right, so they saw they saw the market as a minigame timesink, rather than an essential adjunct to IOs that means you stand a sensible chance of completing sets without the chat channels being full of nothing but "anybody got a crushing impact acc/dam".
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It's both.
Markets fulfill many design goals, which is why they're nearly ubiquitous in the genre.
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Many people view the market as a way of getting the IOs they need and the salvage to craft them not as a game in itself. What the devs viewed it as is a guess, presenting your view as fact is ridiculous.
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Players will see what they see.
Devs look at design considerations.
From their point of view, the purpose of the market is obvious.
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My opinion - differs from yours, but equally valid -
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Opinions have zero intrinsic worth. They're only as valid as their underlying reasoning.
I have a strong feeling that in this case my opinion will be substantially stronger and more virile than yours...let's see if I guess right.
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certainly neither is fact - They added merits to try to persuade people to stop farming the same missions (standard farms or papers) and do some content. They wanted people to do more TFs, and I think they succeeded in that aim.
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Wrong.
Or rather, that is far from the fundamental reason for their creation.
They don't care what you play or how you play it, they care about one thing- keeping you on the treadmill (to steal an idea from SwellGuy).
The two main functions of merits in the game are alternative supply chain and creating a direct link between time and reward.
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They added tickets because using the standard reward structure would have been even more ridiculously exploitable than what's there atm, and if there were no rewards, MA would barely be used anywhere other than Virtue.
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Again, tickets are an alternative method of supply, nothing more.
They were designed to create more of "the good stuff" in the form of desirable recipes and rare salvage. This serves the dual purpose of boosting red-side supply (now all those level 50 farmers can supply the lower levels too, wheee!) and serving as a draw to MA ("hey, if I run MA missions I don't have to 'waste' any drops on junk like common salvage or generic recipes! Wheeee!")
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
<QR>
As I was Entering data into the wiki for salvage, I glanced at the median last 5 prices for some heal sets (crafted).
Regen Tissue (5 pieces at 30) 52.5 million (45 for the unique)
Triage (4 pieces at 30) 8.5 million
Harmonized Healing (40) 19 Million
Miracle (40) 66 million (30 for the Unique)
Doctored Wounds (50) 29 Million
Numina's Convalesence (50) 145 Million (50 for the Unique)
Now you can basically slot the entire Doctored Wounds set for the price of a two of the non-unique numis. (28 and 33 million when I checked)
Numis bonuses
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* Two enhancements improves your Regeneration by 12%.
* Three enhancements increases maximum Health by 1.88%.
* Four enhancements improves the Healing of all your powers by 6%.
* Five enhancements reduces the duration of Hold effects on you by 3.3%.
* Six enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 3.75%.
* Six enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 1.875%.
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Doctored Wounds
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# Two enhancements reduces the duration of Fear effects on you by 2.2%.
# Three enhancements increases Fire and Cold Resistance by 1.26%.
# Four enhancements improves the Healing of all your powers by 4%.
# Five enhancements improves the Recharge of all your powers by 5%.
# Six enhancements increases Toxic and Psionic Resistance by 1.26%
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Trading off the valuable ones in the first 5 places, is a 12% +regen and 1.88% +health (and a 6% heal boost) really worth 66 million more inf than the 5% +recharge (and a 4% heal boost)
As for the pimped out builds and benefactors. Yesterday I dropped a little over 400 common IOs into my SG bins crafting from memory to do this I have no idea how much inf this was in total, and don't really care, as within a week or two I'll have made more than it cost back.
Heck I laugh at people when they say how much it 'costs' to get field crafter. My latest one in progress started at level 23 with under 20 million, and 2 weeks later with most of the progress made, she has 60 million from selling her crafted IOs. Half her slots are working towards the 1000 crafting badges (so 500 after the memorised ones), making at least 100 000 inf per IO turned over, the other half are working the memorisation ones. Most of which get sold at no less than cost. I do have the big 2 areas that are losses (mez and debuff) to go, but heck I made some small amounts of inf on the travel/range IOs, by not flooding the market and having just a couple out there.
Patience is the key as the market regulars already know.
I have one really 'pimped out' character blueside, and two on a scale of 1 (common IO) to 5 (Fully purpled) come in at a 3, though one will get to a 4 when he slots his Numi regen/recovery. Funnily enough both of them started slotting at 30 the sets they wanted for the late game and saved so much inf over the next 15-20 levels (one is 45) that they are both over 100 million banked.
Now for the Arch/NRG at 45, to answer my own question above, is the Numis worth the 66 million more than the Doctored Wounds, yes. Not for the health/regen though, but because he is building towards a soft capped ranged def build, that alone is the reason he got the Numis set, and 6 slotted it into health
Heck he doesn't even need the +recovery so how is that for a 'waste' of inf and slots, that works out at 40 million per % of ranged defence.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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I can show you something where you could pay more than the last 5, get an instant sale, craft, put it up for sale for less than the last 5 and more than double your money.
Last 5 recipes are selling for under 5 million, last 5 crafted are going for 15 million (13.5 after Went fees). I bought mine for 5.1 million and put the crafted it up for sale at 13.5- should sell quick, I'm under the "market price"- and if I get exactly what I ask for I make more than 6 million inf.
It hasn't sold yet, but that was literally a 5 minute transaction for me. Including the time to trot from the Steel Canyon Wents to the university and back.
Yes, there is a learning curve on the market, but once you put in a couple hours of learning, it's pretty quick.
I repeat: If you spend hours doing things at the market, you're doing the wrong things.
[/ QUOTE ]Truer words were never spoken. The key here is Fulmens is actually LOWERING the price of the IO he's selling...
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What bugs me is that people think that they shouldn't have to put in the same amount of effort that I did to get where I am.
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Right. I just checked, and I have 5160 hours invested across all of my characters, about half that time playing my 50s, plus plenty of time on the forums and in Mids' and spreadsheets.
So when someone with, say, a couple hundred hours in the game and one level 50 thinks they should have everything that I have, I start feeling like they want to get paid for one month of work the same as I get paid for two years of work. And suddenly I start getting a little cranky. I paid my dues. I earned what I have.
And frankly, you CAN have what I have for only a couple hundred hours invested. You just have to invest that time wisely, and some of those hours may well include activities you don't find fun. Or you can just keep doing what you find most fun. You'll get there eventually if you're willing to put in the hours. And if you aren't willing to put in the hours, don't expect to be at the same level as the people who are.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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What bugs me is that people think that they shouldn't have to put in the same amount of effort that I did to get where I am.
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Right. I just checked, and I have 5160 hours invested across all of my characters, about half that time playing my 50s, plus plenty of time on the forums and in Mids' and spreadsheets.
So when someone with, say, a couple hundred hours in the game and one level 50 thinks they should have everything that I have, I start feeling like they want to get paid for one month of work the same as I get paid for two years of work. And suddenly I start getting a little cranky. I paid my dues. I earned what I have.
And frankly, you CAN have what I have for only a couple hundred hours invested. You just have to invest that time wisely, and some of those hours may well include activities you don't find fun. Or you can just keep doing what you find most fun. You'll get there eventually if you're willing to put in the hours. And if you aren't willing to put in the hours, don't expect to be at the same level as the people who are.
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To be honest I don't think they care how long it took you me or anyone else it did to build out their characters. They just want to do it quicker and with a more enjoyable way of doing it. In real life I laugh at that attitude but this is a game.
Well...this thread certainly turned left at Albuquerque. I really didn't intend, or WANT, this thread to turn into a market vs anti-market discussion. Quite frankly, thre are people on BOTH sides of the discussion that are way off base; rather than helping their sides, they are just pissing the other side off.
My whole idea with this apparently-forgotten guide is to have OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE statements that cannot be argued. These can be used as backing arguments in any discussion on the subject going forward. This means no opinions, no hearsay, no anecdotal evidence, etc. I see now that it will be very difficult to achieve this, but I hope that I can get at least SOME factual data out there.
I know that people will ignore it if they don't want to hear it. That's fine. But I'd rather not have to explain for the Nth time that "playing the market" and "playing the game" are the same thing or that people actively making money on the market, for the most part, are actually bringing prices closer to equilibrium.
Once those facts are established, then we can move on to arguments about how people who hate the market are lazy and impatient and people who love the market are capitalist pig-dogs.
So, can we push this never-ending argument out of this thread and try to collect some facts? If not, well, that in itself will show something, no?
PS - Thanks to those that already contributed facts, way back earlier in the thread.
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Well...this thread certainly turned left at Albuquerque. I really didn't intend, or WANT, this thread to turn into a market vs anti-market discussion.
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Alas, it was guaranteed by your topic.
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My whole idea with this apparently-forgotten guide is to have OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE statements that cannot be argued.
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We have plenty already.
That doesn't stop people from arguing them.
Your plan is frankly doomed to failure, as are all Utopian daydreams.
Anti-market zealots are not amenable to reason.
The ones who are have already followed our advice and become one with The Financial Borg.
Don't let that stop you from doing it- I've posted any number of dryly factual threads over the years that were meant to sway the uninitiated.
The process itself has value.
But temper your expectations regarding the outcome.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Well...this thread certainly turned left at Albuquerque. I really didn't intend, or WANT, this thread to turn into a market vs anti-market discussion.
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Alas, it was guaranteed by your topic.
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My whole idea with this apparently-forgotten guide is to have OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE statements that cannot be argued.
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We have plenty already.
That doesn't stop people from arguing them.
Your plan is frankly doomed to failure, as are all Utopian daydreams.
Anti-market zealots are not amenable to reason.
The ones who are have already followed our advice and become one with The Financial Borg.
Don't let that stop you from doing it- I've posted any number of dryly factual threads over the years that were meant to sway the uninitiated.
The process itself has value.
But temper your expectations regarding the outcome.
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Lol this is like politicians griping that there is corruption in government.
You can't have dialog if your premise is everything the other side has to say is wrong. If you start to throw feces at people who disagree with you don't act surprised when they throw the same back.
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To be honest I don't think they care how long it took you me or anyone else it did to build out their characters. They just want to do it quicker and with a more enjoyable way of doing it. In real life I laugh at that attitude but this is a game.
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I laugh at people who have that attitude in an MMO. The entire point of persistent worlds is that you keep what you get, and therefore it takes something to get it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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To be honest I don't think they care how long it took you me or anyone else it did to build out their characters. They just want to do it quicker and with a more enjoyable way of doing it. In real life I laugh at that attitude but this is a game.
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I laugh at people who have that attitude in an MMO. The entire point of persistent worlds is that you keep what you get, and therefore it takes something to get it.
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The whole point of entertainment is that its entertaining.
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My whole idea with this apparently-forgotten guide is to have OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE statements that cannot be argued.
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Anti-market zealots won't believe you.
After all the world is flat and if you say differently you are lying or mistaken.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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My whole idea with this apparently-forgotten guide is to have OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE statements that cannot be argued.
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Anti-market zealots won't believe you.
After all the world is flat and if you say differently you are lying or mistaken.
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And at some point self parody always kicks in.
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To be honest I don't think they care how long it took you me or anyone else it did to build out their characters. They just want to do it quicker and with a more enjoyable way of doing it. In real life I laugh at that attitude but this is a game.
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I laugh at people who have that attitude in an MMO. The entire point of persistent worlds is that you keep what you get, and therefore it takes something to get it.
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The whole point of entertainment is that its entertaining.
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And MMOs are typically a particular KIND of entertainment time sinks designed to keep you on the treadmill, laboring endlessly for that next level, that next piece of loot, that next shiny.
Now, I think we can have constructive arguments about how steep the treadmill should be and how long you have to run on it before you get that next shiny. There's certainly plenty of disagreement on that, and the devs have to make some choice, knowing that the choice won't be ideal for many or even most players' entertainment dollar.
But if someone isn't entertained by running on a treadmill chasing the next cool thing, then perhaps MMOs aren't for them.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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They always suspect they're being taken advantage of when dealing with the market (and sometimes they're right).
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How so, when THEY determine the price they pay?
Or are they somehow griefing themselves, in your bizarre alternate world?
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Not if everyone lists the item for a certain amount, and that is my fundamental problem with the Market. I can list what I WANT to pay till I'm blue in the face, but if no one sells it for that, I'll never get it, even if it is a reasonable amount.
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Not if everyone lists the item for a certain amount, and that is my fundamental problem with the Market. I can list what I WANT to pay till I'm blue in the face, but if no one sells it for that, I'll never get it, even if it is a reasonable amount.
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You don't get to define "reasonable", that's up to the playerbase as a whole.
If you leave a bid up for a good while and it still doesn't fill, you aren't valuing the item correctly and other people are.
I can bid 100k on a LotG recharge and never get it.
Because that isn't a reasonable bid, however hard I wish for it to be.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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My whole idea with this apparently-forgotten guide is to have OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE statements that cannot be argued.
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Anti-market zealots won't believe you.
After all the world is flat and if you say differently you are lying or mistaken.
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And at some point self parody always kicks in.
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Actually Swell is right. Check here.
The Flat Earth Society
They are spreading their ridiculous propaganda on the WWW which relys on satalite communication which is only needed due to line of sight caused by a globular world.
Like many agencies and people of this type they "prove" their point by omitting information that disproves it, by labeling it a manufactured conspiracy, or by trying to discredit the source of the information with non-relevant subject matter.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Not if everyone lists the item for a certain amount, and that is my fundamental problem with the Market. I can list what I WANT to pay till I'm blue in the face, but if no one sells it for that, I'll never get it, even if it is a reasonable amount.
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You don't get to define "reasonable", that's up to the playerbase as a whole.
If you leave a bid up for a good while and it still doesn't fill, you aren't valuing the item correctly and other people are.
I can bid 100k on a LotG recharge and never get it.
Because that isn't a reasonable bid, however hard I wish for it to be.
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And the person that flips the LotG (Example only for prices) buy buying them at 30mil, and re-listing them all for 100mil has artificially created that price knowing that eventually people will want them enough to pay that much.
Its the sad reality that greed affects MMORPS where the money isn't even real.
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Wow, I can't even begin to tell you where you are off track, Goat.
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Every statement I made is entirely factual.
Except maybe the one about veering off into the desert.
But please, try to debunk them. It's been a slow week.
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OK, let's start here, how you can claim these are fact rather than simply opinion I have no idea:
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2. A better system could have been implemented. Just look at how you can buy rare salvage with Tickets. That's how the whole system should work instead of a market.
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That fails at the main gameplay goal of the market- minigame timesink.
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That they added merits and tickets at all to appease the crybabies and entitlement cases is a travesty, but an understandable one given their refusal to redress factional market discrepancies in the only logical way.
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You're rewarded for playing the game instead of playing the market.
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Bad news Sunshine, the market is the game.
So is PvP.
So is MA.
So is base building.
etc etc etc.
Take your litmus tests for determining 'real' gamers somewhere else, that bunk doesn't fly around here.
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OK, so I somewhat butchered the quoting, but the main points of what I'm responding to are there.
Right, so they saw they saw the market as a minigame timesink, rather than an essential adjunct to IOs that means you stand a sensible chance of completing sets without the chat channels being full of nothing but "anybody got a crushing impact acc/dam". Many people view the market as a way of getting the IOs they need and the salvage to craft them not as a game in itself. What the devs viewed it as is a guess, presenting your view as fact is ridiculous.
My opinion - differs from yours, but equally valid - certainly neither is fact - They added merits to try to persuade people to stop farming the same missions (standard farms or papers) and do some content. They wanted people to do more TFs, and I think they succeeded in that aim.
They added tickets because using the standard reward structure would have been even more ridiculously exploitable than what's there atm, and if there were no rewards, MA would barely be used anywhere other than Virtue.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba