Deja Vue once again.......... im sure.
By
Barata,
Posted on: 2009-05-27 08:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
throwing my 2c into the pot:
There's nothing wrong with PLing or farming or wanting to farm or enjoying it or anything else. This isn't a matter of morality, or breaking the rules, or the EULA, or anything legal or ethical like that.
This is whole policy is based on conventional MMO-dev wisdom that goes as follows: players will take the path of least resistance. If you give them avenues to level that are fast, easy, and repetitive, they'll take them, level as far as they can, then complain that it's too repetitive, and in the worst case they'll get bored and quit.
Essentially, the whole anti-farming policy is to prevent players from getting bored and quitting - it doesn't matter if there's a small subset that actually enjoys farming, or some people that use it to skip boring level gaps, or use farm-like situations for a challenge. The devs of this or any MMO will attempt to eliminate farmable situations in order to keep their players playing and enjoying themselves.
I don't perceive that as greedy or underhanded. I think it's a function of the fundamental problem that content takes vastly longer to create than it does to consume. You want players to go through content you've designed for the purpose of their enjoyment so they'll continue to play. The fact that there may be slow level gaps or grindy gameplay should be fixed by addressing the gameplay, not by allowing speed leveling past those gaps.
I think it's reasonable for the devs remove quick-leveling tools (most everyone, I think, agrees). And although I don't agree with it, I think it's reasonable for them to roll back rewards on characters that were leveled too quickly in their judgment. I think it's less reasonable to hand out temp bans to players that did so, and I'm pretty confused by their decision to do so.
It's also pretty apparent that the devs screwed up by executing the deletions via script. It should have been handled on a case-by-case basis, although it's also possible that there were far too many offenders for that to be feasible. It's apparent that they deleted characters who were not guilty, although it's impossible to say how many. I believe they should have taken a far more conservative approach to deleting characters, because characters deleted in error will cause far more anger than it's worth, even if it's later corrected.
However, having said all that, I believe a lot of the mechanics of this game specifically call into question the conventional MMO wisdom that you shouldn't allow fast leveling through farming. This game's content is all available at level 50 via flashback, and the MA, which ironically spawned this whole mess, provides virtually endless content at level 50 as well. I'm not fully confident in saying it, but I believe this game may have beaten the symptom of fast farming prevalent in almost every other MMO. If I speed to 50, I, in fact, have a virtually limitless supply of things to do. It's unclear to me without some data whether or not the same trap holds here. I doubt, however, that the devs want to be guinea pigs in that experiment.
I believe as a matter of good business (not morals or anything so melodramatic) the devs should give a free month to every account that had a character deleted or an account temp banned in error. I also believe they should issue a public apology for it, and take more conservative measures in the future.
None of this is to say I'm angry or anything - I'm not affected at all by this. Just thought I'd throw my view into the pool, for whatever it's worth.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
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I think it's a function of the fundamental problem that content takes vastly longer to create than it does to consume.
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Nail, meet head. Insightful as always, Mr. Joyce.
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Why do you grind at all? I don't understand why anyone would want to grind.
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Because in other games you have to grind.
Last weekend I was at a party and met a girl who told me she played World of Warcraft. I mentioned that I would be interested in trying WoW (I was trying to hit on her, don't judge me). The first thing she said was "Oh you should start a character! I could give you some gold to get you started and my friends and I would powerlevel you really fast!" I said thanks and that I would think about it.
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
One_and_Only wrote:
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this thread is staying here ............... im tired of moving this idea just because some dork keeps saying "THERES AN OFFICIAL THREAD for that ................ im done moving it ......... either agree or disagree or ignore it ......
one
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Disagree. Thank you.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
This thread is still here? 
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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This thread is still here?
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I'm as surprised as you are, especially since its cross-post in Suggestions also seems to still be right there.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I personally am in a race. Not to just have "shiny enhancements", but so I can compete in pvp zones. Hands down, only motivation. I was perfectly fine with the "so" days. But when I went into pvp zones after the recipe sets came out, and my toons were dying and couldn't defeat anyone. MORE POWER WAS NEEDED TO COMPETE. No other motivation.
Playing the game won't keep me competitive in pvp. Pling and farming, gets the drops and more so the money to buy the enhancments. Expecially ae missions cause what regular mission can you get 25k a kill with all lvl 54 bosses? The devs got the drop rate so low that folks are paying 500million a recipe. Where are all of yall at when it comes to complaining to them? All the drops in the world are at a tweeking of a program and instead of saying "Hey increase the drop rate to kill the farmers motive." yall attack anyone who sees the use and need of farming to make their toons stronger.
I posted this thread to see what the overall outlook was about the subject from my point of view. I see the official farming thread but this is more or less about the people. I wanna know why "farmers are the badguys" when clearly a player cant stay competitive in pvp zones unless they farm.
I never considered new people farming when I made this thread. I see the point of you all about newbies farming. I really don't have an opinion on the matter. But I started playing this game in december 05, because I found a game where I could make my own superhero and give him the powers I wanted them to have. 4 years later this is still one of the funnest ways to spend some of my free time. But now I wanna pl my toons and farm and run through tfs as fast as possible just to get drops and merits and money to make these characters of mine as strong as possible.
one
One_and_Only wrote:
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The devs got the drop rate so low that folks are paying 500million a recipe.
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Sounds about right, to me, for an ultra-rare recipe.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
why are there "ultra-rare" recipes though? Drop the recipes, kill the need for farming.
If i could go in RV or WB and get that drop doing a mission or killing some pillboxes or defeating another player on the regular, what would be the point of farming? It would kill farming altogether.
Hell, I'd go back to fighting Anti-Matter if I'd get a drop or two a week. But 1 drop every 6-7 months can kiss my *__*.
one
Just remember, folks: the Devs HAVE to get rid of farming. Farming, and any other sort of exploit. If they don't, the game will be GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!1!
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I posted this thread to see what the overall outlook was about the subject from my point of view. I see the official farming thread but this is more or less about the people. I wanna know why "farmers are the badguys" when clearly a player cant stay competitive in pvp zones unless they farm.
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I see you still haven't bothered to do your research and learn what this whole recent "rper v farmer" idiocy is all about.
All of this "farmer hate" you are seeing is completely centered around the Mission Architect (and it is not as all-encompassing as you seem to think, the only reason it looks like that it because it touches your subgroup). When Mission Architect was being developed, the Devs told us very clearly that they did not want it to be used as a farming tool. When Architect was released, players ignored the Devs request, and made farms in droves. The Devs have smacked some of these players' hands, and the farming community turned it into an us vs them World War III. A simple warning and outline of consequences (that is all it was, read the posts for yourself if you don't believe me) was blown completely out of proportion, and a flamestorm of a magnitude not seen since ED ensued.
The Devs have not touched the farming anywhere else in the game. Every single farm you used to powerlevel or grind for Purple IOs prior to Architect is still there, waiting for you to use it. There has been no indication that Devs want to or are going to take them away from you anytime in the forseeable future.
In short, farmers are not the bad guys, and they never were. A bunch of them felt persecuted when they were asked to not make farms in the Architect, and then got up in arms when they persisted and were shown the door. When they got up in arms, they rallied the rest of their community and got aggressive, resulting in an agressive posture from everybody else.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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the game will be GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!1!
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The game was made by Americans ............. shhhh!! Intelligent people talking.
one
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I see you still haven't bothered to do your research and learn what this whole recent "rper v farmer" idiocy is all about.
All of this "farmer hate" you are seeing is completely centered around the Mission Architect (and it is not as all-encompassing as you seem to think, the only reason it looks like that it because it touches your subgroup). When Mission Architect was being developed, the Devs told us very clearly that they did not want it to be used as a farming tool. When Architect was released, players ignored the Devs request, and made farms in droves. The Devs have smacked some of these players' hands, and the farming community turned it into an us vs them World War III. A simple warning and outline of consequences (that is all it was, read the posts for yourself if you don't believe me) was blown completely out of proportion, and a flamestorm of a magnitude not seen since ED ensued.
The Devs have not touched the farming anywhere else in the game. Every single farm you used to powerlevel or grind for Purple IOs prior to Architect is still there, waiting for you to use it. There has been no indication that Devs want to or are going to take them away from you anytime in the forseeable future.
In short, farmers are not the bad guys, and they never were. A bunch of them felt persecuted when they were asked to not make farms in the Architect, and then got up in arms when they persisted and were shown the door. When they got up in arms, they rallied the rest of their community and got aggressive, resulting in an agressive posture from everybody else.
Complete idiocy, perpetuated by a bunch of hysterical idiots out there who keep fanning the flames.
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Point noted. Unfortunately, in Protector server forum, (my server) they chew and spit out farmers completely. Not just ae farmers. So, as I was redirected from that server to the "City life" forum, I am still ranting about problems that I see. They told me farmers mess up the economy. ECONOMY?! LoL we didnt even have an economy prior to i8. Remember when we were all paying 25 million for some wings? My whole point stands that if farming is such a bad thing, increase the drops like they did the wings and this will never be a issue again.
one
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the game will be GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!1!
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The game was made by Americans ............. shhhh!! Intelligent people talking.
one
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It's amusing that you didn't get the reference. It's comical that you acted condescending over it. You are quite the laughable fellow.
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the game will be GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!1!
[/ QUOTE ]
The game was made by Americans ............. shhhh!! Intelligent people talking.
one
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It's amusing that you didn't get the reference. It's comical that you acted condescending over it. You are quite the laughable fellow.
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Yeah, old-time posters! *high-five*
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the game will be GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!1!
[/ QUOTE ]
The game was made by Americans ............. shhhh!! Intelligent people talking.
one
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It's amusing that you didn't get the reference. It's comical that you acted condescending over it. You are quite the laughable fellow.
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Yeah, old-time posters! *high-five*
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If the OP is curious, look up UNIQUEDRAGON, the post might still be around.
Or maybe someone has it saved?
That thing was comedy gold.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
The post is still stickied on the Justice forums. Unique Dragon himself has posted in it several more times and, to my knowledge, is back on CoH today. Or maybe he left again. But there *is*, in the back of the thread, an explanation of the original post by UniqueDragon. It's.. kind of a letdown, but still.
Yeah, I saw where he started posting in it again...3 years later.
HERE is a little bit of history on it.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster
lol I admit, I have a lot that goes over my head. I didn't get the reference at all. I miss jokes when they are typed sometimes. I love it all though.
As far as me acting condescending, I've learned from the best in the COH forums........ "He didn't dot his i, DESTROY HIM!!"
its my uhhh ....... light saber if you will.
one
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the game will be GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!1!
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The game was made by Americans ............. shhhh!! Intelligent people talking.
one
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Okay, this made me laugh. Not with you, but i laughed anyway.
Now i realize intelligence does not directly correlate with writing proficiency, but when posting online it's one of the biggest indicators after the logical rigor of your arguments. Unfortunately, as others have already pointed out, your posts have been a bit lacking on both counts. So, yes, intelligent people are talking, some of them to and about you, and i hope you you give what they post some thought. (Now i'm not particularly intelligent myself, just a bit snarky and easily amused, so there's no real reason to give what i say much thought.)
Carry on. 
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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So, yes, intelligent people are talking, some of them to and about you,
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insults. it didn't even take any smarts to figure out your punchline....
Intelligence is corrupted by stubbornness. I'm making valid points for at least one side of some issues, and alot of people arent even thinking about them, instead focusing on redirecting to "official posts" . Who cares? I work and could care less about where a topic is in this forum. I look for the building of thoughts and collaboration of ideas. That's it. To get caught up in such futile details is silly and that's what we have mods for. Maybe I keep getting pounced on by applicants for those jobs....hmmmm didn't think of that.
one
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If you're an adult, I dare you to use the term "Bork" in a sentence correctly and tell me the origins of the phrase.
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Did somebody say bork?!
'cuz I thought I heard somebody say bork!
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Stop looking at pling , or farming as a bad thing. I personally have "payed my dues" with getting 5 characters to 50 doing teaming and soloing and all that. So my last 7 that I got to 50, I did pling and tfs. THIS WAS NEVER A BAD THING TO ME and was AN OPTION THAT I WANTED! I pay for this game just like everyone else, and if I don't want to spend months grinding a way to get a toon to 50 then I shouldn't have to.
I get on the forums and all I see is "farm bashing". Im grown and have 2 jobs. I dont wanna spend the remaining hours of my day getting 3 bars.
Farming allows me to put sooooooo much on the market. And I put it there for cheap too. It helps me help the economy of our game. Pling isn't bad. Any "character builders" know that getting a toon to 50 is pretty much just step number one. The recipes are the next step. Of the which, recipes are impossible to afford if a player just runs through contacts. I just did it with my ma/shield scrapper. After a month I was lvl 16 running in the hollows. Grinding out missions is for people that are new and people that actually prefer to run stories. It should not be the only method of game play.
one
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Why do you grind at all? I don't understand why anyone would want to grind.
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Because they are in a race with the rest of the players, but they just don't realize that this type of game is not a race.
Unfortunately, MMOs in general have attracted these type of people. People that have the drive to have more or better things than someone else simply for the sake of it. They think they are better than someone that has less than them. It's a bi-product of a superficial social species/society.
~ Infinity Heroes ~
Dark Voltage - 50 NRG/NRG/EM Blaster
Shure Shot - 50 Arch/NRG/MM Blaster
Silent Shadow Blade - 50 Katana/SR/BM Scrapper
Uphir - 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster