Play as: Any AT, I've brought almost all of them to 50 so far and enjoyed playing them there. I can honestly say that last night in fact, I had a 3 defender team where we had a TA/Archery who was SKed TANK 3 AVs, the other two were myself as an emp/dark and another as an emp/sonic. All the ATs are fun in my eyes and in the right hands, any AT can do amazing things.
To team with: Again, any as long as they enjoy themselves and I enjoy myself as well.
Brutes have a nearly infinite capacity for offensive buffs. Tanks do not.
Tanks and Brutes have the same cap on overall defense/resistance after buffs, don't they?
Therefore, on a team with seven buffers and one Brute/Tank, the Brute has more flexibility than the Tanker.
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Tanks and Brutes have the same cap on overall defense/resistance after buffs, don't they?
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Except for HP, correct.
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They have the same Hit point cap, brutes just have a lower starting point, so getting to 3212 hit points is more than a 170% increase.
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They have the same Hit point cap, brutes just have a lower starting point, so getting to 3212 hit points is more than a 170% increase.
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So with enough IOs, accolades, Dull Pain, and Frostwork...
Brute = Tank defensively.
Tank < Brute Offensively.
Brute does not have Gauntlet.
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They have the same Hit point cap, brutes just have a lower starting point, so getting to 3212 hit points is more than a 170% increase.
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So with enough IOs, accolades, Dull Pain, and Frostwork...
Brute <<<<<< Tank defensively.
Tank < Brute Offensively.
Brute does not have Gauntlet.
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Fix't for accuracy.
How is a Brute with max HP and capped Def/Res inferior to a Tank defensively?
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Brute = Tank defensively.
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Potentially.
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Brute does not have Gauntlet.
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Depends how you define Gauntlet.
Brute attacks taunt enemies they hit, just like Tankers. They can be slotted with Taunt IO sets and taunt enhancers, just like Tankers.
The only difference is, on a Tanker the taunt effect is radial, affecting an area proportional to the size of the attack. On a Brute the radius is set to always be zero, rendering the effect single target, except when the attack is AoE, like Foot Stomp.
The devs define the radial effect as Gauntlet, but since Brutes do the same thing only less potent, some people tend to say that Brutes have "Gauntlet-lite".
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Best brace yourself for an assault of un-logic.
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As far as people blaming death on "lack of tankage" or complaining about a brute or tank not using taunt, you probably need to learn to survive on your own instead of depending on other ATs and people to protect you.
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I disagree, because teammates should try to assist one another. Of course, no tank, brute or other AT can save someone who's playing like a moron, but for my part, a team should be more than eight people soloing on the same map.
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I never said that you should not try to help your team mates. Allow me to clarify. If we are teaming, and I am playing my brute or tanker, and you die- don't blame me for not standing there spamming taunt like a robot. I have other things I enjoy doing as much or more than taunting enemies away from team mates. Placing blame on me for your death is not fair because you are denying responsibility that you could have done something do save yourself.
Quite the contrary, being on a team means each person should pull some weight. I will do my part as you should, but I just don't like people passing blame for faceplants.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
You never said capped def/res, only DP, Frostwork, IOs, and accolades. Even with those, Brutes will never match the survivability of a Tank.
Assuming we do have defense and resistance buffs, Brutes can match the survivability of the Tank and that's it. I don't count the 850% damage cap because I think it's almost useless on a team. If a Brute is at that cap, then other teammates will be at theirs as well killing mobs just as fast.
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Tanker. Brutes are just another squishy AT.
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Pfft- tell that to all defender/corruptor/controller/dominator superteams that roll through content with speed and safety that would make both tanks and brutes sad. I think that is the tanker mentality that turns off a few players from all over. The tank is not the hub of the team, and it is not needed for any team to be successful. The only element a team needs to survive is an inherent that many players in the game have across the board: strategy and intelligence.
With that said; it is a fact that a brute can achieve the same mitigation cap that a tank can, so your statement won't mean much if a brute has just a couple of buffs tossed his way. He will be as capable a meat shield as a tank while dealing damage a tank would never be able to touch.
And please don't dismiss the effect of outside buffs in this particular discussion, because the question deals explicitly with teams. In teams, there is a very high likelihood buffs will be had.
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Sounds like a buncha squishy-talk to me.
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Are you serious or just kidding?
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Sounds like to me that Navigator is speaking like a true Tank.
Tanks, they come closest to a Superman AT without buffing aid.
I love my stone/stone Brute (also have ss/elec), but that's because it's more like a Tank then any of the other secondaries.
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Tanker Fun
Thanks for clarifying, and I now perform a 180 and agree with you.
Except the bit about Fury 
But that mechanic just isn't to my tastes.
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If tanks did more damage I would play them more.
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They used to.
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Tanker Fun
It depends on what the team needs. I can say that I would pick a brute over a scrapper in terms of damage, as long as the team stays at a quick pace. If it were early game, I would take a scrapper though due to all the down time. As far as the tank role, my first pick is a Tanker. Highest defense and HP in the game.
T. Hayes
@The Cleansing
Are extra HP really worth the low damage of a Tanker, though?
As I continually point out, the superior defense of a tanker is potentially meaningless on a good team; to use an extreme example, a team of 8 Defenders can steamroll any content in the game through putting out an impenetrable wall of buffs/debuffs.
When the entire team is at soft cap defense from bubbles/leadership with some nice resistance buffs to boot, while the enemy acc and dam are debuffed to the floor, the tank's advantage is simply the quantity of hitpoints.
Are the extra 1500 or so HP that important?
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If tanks did more damage I would play them more.
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They used to.
[/ QUOTE ] I wasn't talking about broken game mechanics.
You, knock it off.
Tankers are doubleplusfine.
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Are extra HP really worth the low damage of a Tanker, though?
As I continually point out, the superior defense of a tanker is potentially meaningless on a good team; to use an extreme example, a team of 8 Defenders can steamroll any content in the game through putting out an impenetrable wall of buffs/debuffs.
When the entire team is at soft cap defense from bubbles/leadership with some nice resistance buffs to boot, while the enemy acc and dam are debuffed to the floor, the tank's advantage is simply the quantity of hitpoints.
Are the extra 1500 or so HP that important?
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Yup, tankers are completely useless when they aren't needed. No one should play them because everyone is always running around at the softcap on defense and with capped dam-res.
No one should every play tanks and JB can finally quit the game in disgust.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Are you serious or just kidding?
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Okay here's a serious comment:
If brutes have enough team buffs they can survive as well as tankers, but tankers let you bring more blasters instead.
Seems like a wash to me.
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No AT is needed on a team.
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You really could've just said this.
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You are apparently incorrect:
Tank taunt: Max target 5 Autohit Foe
+41s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only
+10.25s Taunt (mag 4) PvP only, Not auto-hit
Range -75% for 12s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Unknown Null +1
Brute Taunt: Max targets 5 Autohit Foe
+41s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only
+10.25s Taunt (mag 4) PvP only, Not auto-hit
Range -75% for 12s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Unknown Null +1
The two taunts are identical in every way.
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Have you used both a Tank and a Brute Taunt against ranged foes, monitoring the behavior of targets other than the primary in the AoE of Taunt?
I have. I am 99% positive that the Brute's Taunt only applies the range debuff to a single target-- the one that the recticle is over.
Just because the descriptions read the same doesn't mean that the coding is the same. Please, test this and actually check my results from gameplay, bacause from my in-game experience there are three tiers of "Taunts" available:
<ul type="square">[*]Confront/Scrapper-- single target taunt, single target-75% range[*]Taunt/Brute-- AoE taunt, single target -75% range[*]Taunt/Tank-- AoE taunt, AoE -75% range[/list]
The method is quite easy. Log in as a Brute, Taunt the Goldbricker spawns in Cap Au Diable, and watch as just ONE of the Goldbrickers runs towards you to shoot while all the others draw a weapon and fire.
Log in as a Tank, Taunt a group of Hellions/whatever, and watch as the entire spawn runs towards you to draw a gun and shoot.
Let me know if you get different results from actual gameplay...
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Tanker. Brutes are just another squishy AT.
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Pfft- tell that to all defender/corruptor/controller/dominator superteams that roll through content with speed and safety that would make both tanks and brutes sad. I think that is the tanker mentality that turns off a few players from all over. The tank is not the hub of the team, and it is not needed for any team to be successful. The only element a team needs to survive is an inherent that many players in the game have across the board: strategy and intelligence.
With that said; it is a fact that a brute can achieve the same mitigation cap that a tank can, so your statement won't mean much if a brute has just a couple of buffs tossed his way. He will be as capable a meat shield as a tank while dealing damage a tank would never be able to touch.
And please don't dismiss the effect of outside buffs in this particular discussion, because the question deals explicitly with teams. In teams, there is a very high likelihood buffs will be had.
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Sounds like a buncha squishy-talk to me.