When is it okay to kick?
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2009-05-20 08:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
It's pretty simple.
Both kicking and punching is all in the mind.
If you want to test them, I'm sure you'll find
The things you teach'a, are sure to beat'cha.
Never-the-less they'll get a lesson from teacha.
-blinks-
What were we talking about again?
Arc #345863 - When The Bough Breaks
"Curse you Perry the Plata...wait, is that Love Handel?" - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, Phineas and Ferb
I recommend two warning shots- first time in a PM, second time in teamchat.
If you suspect they're dualboxing, which it sounds like they were, sending a /tell to their "friend" saying 'Is it me or is xxxx just afk with autoheal on? Is he normally like that?' might help.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Because of the time involved, the bar for kicking from a TF should be much higher, unless it's the first mission or something.
On a team, simply by virtue of the mechanic of the star, essentially anything that pisses off the leader is grounds for dismissal.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty simple.
Both kicking and punching is all in the mind.
If you want to test them, I'm sure you'll find
The things you teach'a, are sure to beat'cha.
Never-the-less they'll get a lesson from teacha.
-blinks-
What were we talking about again?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont get cocky, its gonna get rock
We gonna move down to the next ya jockey now duck!
VIRTUE:Psychic Angel [Strm/Psy Def], Psychic Demon [Fire/Psy Dom], Spider Mime [Crab], The Cast Iron Chef [DB/WP Brute], Paintball Wizard [Dual Pistols/Sonic Cor], ACME Archer [Grav/Trick Con], Johnny Sonata Jr. [Sonic/Energy Blas]
EXALTED: Quantum Angel [PB], Psycho Angel [Necro/Psn MM], Holiday Spirit [Ill/TM Con]
When ever the hell you want, if you are the leader.
[ QUOTE ]
Both kicking and punching is all in the mind.
[/ QUOTE ]
So punch them in the head instead?
For the OP:
As long as it's done fairly - as mentioned, warn them, make sure the team knows if they don't change what they're doing... and if they don't, *kick.* There's no reason to put up with people leeching, and that's just what was going on.
I ran into this last night as the leader of an ITF group. The person I eventually kicked kept dying quickly and would wait from 5 - 10 mins to either use an awaken or go to the hospital. Once at the hospital, it took them another 5 - 10 minutes to come back to the mission.
After the frist three missions I sent a tell warning them that they needed to participate more actively in the TF. Sure enough, they came to the mission right after. Once inside, however, the person just sat there...then made their way to the final confrontation area with Romulus, put themselves into Rest and proceeded to do nothing while we fought Romulus. I told the person that if they weren't back by the time we'd killed him 3 times, then they were out. Sure enough, they didn't respond or help, so they were gone.
I'm pretty sure this was a case of someone seeking free merits with no effort - and I didn't think that was fair to the rest of us.
Yeah I don't mind blast fenders...but an aura rocking troller has got ta go.
I generally call them out and warn them to participate or they'll get kicked.
Half the time they quit before I can kick them.
Two things:
1) Don't micromanage. Just because a player isn't playing their AT to *your* expectations, doesn't mean you can kick 'em as a result. Personally, I'd sooner quit a TF and leave the anal-retentive hanging than put up with any BS about how I'm *not* supposed to play.
2) Assuming its not you but really *them,* send 'em a PM *when the team isn't fighting* and ask what's up? If they don't acknowledge/respond within two minutes but you can see they're still playing, then most likely they're ignoring you - so kick 'em.
Just remember, kicking someone from a TF is a double-edged sword: yeah, you got rid of dead weight but now that's one teammate less you'll need to overcompensate for (and it may cost you the TF in the end).
I usually know in the first 10 minutes of starting a mission if the TF team is going to pull together or not. If it ain't happening I drop and find another. I'm not looking to waste 2-3 hrs of my precious game time because a team can't work together (or a leader gets too bossy for words).
I do have a list of 6 or 7 people I try to ignore in channel who constantly churn through TF's. Sometimes they get obnoxious or they just can't be bothered to stay together with the main group (which is fine). That being said, I don't want to discourage anyone from participating in a TF cause that may lead to them drop their subscription down the road...
Bottom line: be careful who you alienate on a TF. The more "elitist" these events become, the more impenetrable it becomes for a "mainstream" player to try the content (Which may contribute to their cancelling their account prematurely).
QR
Sorry for my cheeky response earlier.
In all seriousness, it's your call as the star owner. Everyone has their specific level of competence they can handle or deal with. Just be prepared for any consequences, positive or negative. Other team members may or may not quit based on what you do, and how you handle it. (Joking with them / giving them a friendly reminder vs. throwing an iron fisted boot to the head)
I play an empath that likes to blast, often times too much. I don't like it when people call for fort / ab as soon as I join a team, to me there is a certain level of implied ineptatude towards my ability as a teammate, as well as an overinflated value towards yours. I generally fort blasters, fenders, and trollers, try to start a cm cycle if we're up against heavy mezzers (And will not cm if fighting mez light critters, so deal with it), and work with any other empath on the team to get as great a fort coverage as possible.
Annoncing my fort cycle at the beginning of a tf or group is often enough to other people not pulling their weight to ship up. Or, it can bring attention to the rest of the team who isn't pulling their weight in a passive manner (not passive-aggressive, mind you).
I rarely have the star, people naturally follow the tanker regardless of star or not, so I'm not in your situation. But friendly communication with the team, both with the problem members and the good members, makes it easier to work with problem members, and feel somewhat better when you have to take terminal action.
Arc #345863 - When The Bough Breaks
"Curse you Perry the Plata...wait, is that Love Handel?" - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, Phineas and Ferb
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]
Any time you have the star and a teammate is being a butthead.
Be well, people of CoH.
It's reasonable to expect participation and use of all available powers from team members for the benefit of the team.
First thing, if they were autoexemplared for the task force, they may be locked out of Fortitude or other powers, and unable to use them. (or they could be lazy, or ignorant of their abilities)
Frequent AFKs may be the result of real life family situations. (or lazy, or distracted)
How much you wish to tolerate, or even believe these reasons are valid is up to you.
A frequent AFK'er for Real-life issues should at least warn you.
Three strikes is what I usually go by. A private tell first, warning that you expect more from them.
Then a second private tell, last chance, buck up or get booted.
Then, if their participation is still poor, add some player notes, give them a one-star rating (or whatever rating system you use), boot them, and explain to the team why you did it. Expect any SG friends or RL friends to promptly quit as well.
Depending on the Task/Strike Force in question, your tolerance may be higher based on how difficult you think it will be to finish, or how badly you want the reward.
Don't get freaked. If their performance was making you angry, let them know, politely, you expect more from them, and you'll be willing to kick them if they don't measure up.
Ignore threats of petitioning or blacklisting. Let them foam in nerdrage. Keep cool, calm, and collected, and keep the team objective in mind.
If they weren't contributing much to the success, booting them may make your team more successful, as it will reduce the spawn count in following missions.
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
New or returning to the game? Want advice from experienced players who want to help YOU?
The Mentor Project: Part of the New Player Council.
[ QUOTE ]
I ran into this last night as the leader of an ITF group. The person I eventually kicked kept dying quickly and would wait from 5 - 10 mins to either use an awaken or go to the hospital. Once at the hospital, it took them another 5 - 10 minutes to come back to the mission.
After the frist three missions I sent a tell warning them that they needed to participate more actively in the TF. Sure enough, they came to the mission right after. Once inside, however, the person just sat there...then made their way to the final confrontation area with Romulus, put themselves into Rest and proceeded to do nothing while we fought Romulus. I told the person that if they weren't back by the time we'd killed him 3 times, then they were out. Sure enough, they didn't respond or help, so they were gone.
I'm pretty sure this was a case of someone seeking free merits with no effort - and I didn't think that was fair to the rest of us.
[/ QUOTE ]They'd have been gone as soon as I saw them leave the team, with a /t <name>, I warned you. You participate in the TF, or you get kicked.
As well as a 1-star and player note about them being a leecher.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
|
In reflection, it would be better to start with friendly question, rather than an accusation.
"Can you use Fortitude more? It's a really good power."
"You seem to be AFK a lot. Are you having problems?"
It gives them the benefit of the doubt, if they are ignorant or distracted by real life issues. It also lets leechers know you are paying attention.
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
New or returning to the game? Want advice from experienced players who want to help YOU?
The Mentor Project: Part of the New Player Council.
[QR]
I'm in agreement that a private warning to each of them first would be best. If they continue to slack off and leech (especially if they're on the low end of the level range,) ask in group if they would want a sidekick to be more effective. This is a subvertive way to say "hey, step it up" without looking like you're calling them out in front of everyone. Bonus points if they're max lvl for the TF and they don't catch the veiled snark 
After that, I'd warn them in group. "SoAndSo, I already whispered and requested that you stop rocking the aura and start [insert skill here: control / fortitude / etc]. Please assist the team or you will be removed."
A note on timing: give them half a mission or so between the private request and the subversive snark to improve on their own, and a full mission between the snark and the open ultimatum. (the snark will point out the slacker to the other smarties in your group, who should then pay attention to how little the slacker is doing, and won't be surprised when the ultimatum is passed down.)
...
Additionally, it is ok to kick anyone who verbally abuses any other member of the team, regardless of who started the argument. As soon as the first snipe crosses group chat, I say "Please direct arguments to private tells--the rest of us really don't want to see them. Verbal abuse will not be tolerated." And if i see a second, they're gone.
I'm not picky on class balance or spec or anything, but I do try to keep my Fun Time from feeling like babysitting high schoolers. which is an insult to some high schoolers, I'm afraid.
...I almost went off on a rant about the lack of manners, what happened to please/thank you/sir/ma'am, the golden rule, etc, and I'm suddenly feeling overwhelmingly old. I'm only 27.
Second complaint about missing cookies gets a kick from me!
That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]
Any time you have the star and a teammate is being a butthead.
[/ QUOTE ]
You totally copied me.
It's -always- better to say something.
Initially I'd suggest a tell, asking that they be more active. Not phrased Negatively. In fact taking a quick look over what powers they have available is a good idea. Talk to them about a new strategy or tactic that hinges on them using a specific power or several specific powers (Tar Patch, Hurricane, and ground target AoEs are great for that!)
If you don't get much change, I'd suggest swapping to team mode to ask them to help with a tactic.
However it should be noted that if it takes 3 minutes to get a response tot he tell: You should probably boot. =-3
If you're dealing with someone Belligerent I'd suggest immediate kickings.
Also I -really- don't suggest taking P_P's advice of booting whenever you feel like it. That's a quick way to alienate players, on and off the team. For example! Regardless of how rude she's been on the topic of RP and expressed that she'll quit any team with RPers on it; only her last comment in this thread was enough to finally convince me to pop her on ignore!
So yeah. Engage people before you discard them.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]
Any time you have the star and a teammate is being a butthead.
[/ QUOTE ]
You totally copied me.
[/ QUOTE ]it's a sign of affection.
Sounds like someone was duel boxing. Just give them a private warning if you want to be polite. If there isn't a change, do a public warning and see how everyone agrees. If there is agreement among all people, you know the team won't fall apart then.
Kick when you feel it's the right choice. For me? I've got some standards, and rules that warrant a kick:
1. Playing in smaller groups.
--- If you're on a team, work with the team. Don't take a buddy or two and go do your own thing, and leave us hanging dry. I don't care what you think will get us done the fastest.
2. Being detrimental to the team.
--- If you over-aggro mobs around us, you fail to pull your own weight in any sense of the word. This isn't just playing your AT, it's playing in general.
3. Starting fights.
--- I've kicked people for just being a pain. Everything from accusing team members of being dead weight on the team, to one incident where someone accused someone else of sleeping with his girlfriend.
4. Being... Odd.
--- I've got a high tolerance for this, but if your RP experience includes a 10-minute speech about the enemy you've just defeated, and how you plan to preserve justice, then you're OUT... This also applies to people who have macros for every single power.
Thanks guys for the replies, it is an interesting discussion. Although some people have suggested just out right kicking people, I rarely would ever do that. The only time is when someone has only just recently joined a team and made a very big and bad impression.
I will probably start with a PM in future and take it from there depending on their reaction. A good leader has a duty to weed out these people, but not at the cost of a good time. Knowing when to rock the boat and when not to is a skill in itself. Unfortunately my comment on Team did create an atmosphere in last nights TF, so it was a bit silly but hey, I was annoyed and wasn't in the best of moods anyway. ;-)
[ QUOTE ]
Kick when you feel it's the right choice. For me? I've got some standards, and rules that warrant a kick:
1. Playing in smaller groups.
--- If you're on a team, work with the team. Don't take a buddy or two and go do your own thing, and leave us hanging dry. I don't care what you think will get us done the fastest.
2. Being detrimental to the team.
--- If you over-aggro mobs around us, you fail to pull your own weight in any sense of the word. This isn't just playing your AT, it's playing in general.
3. Starting fights.
--- I've kicked people for just being a pain. Everything from accusing team members of being dead weight on the team, to one incident where someone accused someone else of sleeping with his girlfriend.
4. Being... Odd.
--- I've got a high tolerance for this, but if your RP experience includes a 10-minute speech about the enemy you've just defeated, and how you plan to preserve justice, then you're OUT... This also applies to people who have macros for every single power.
[/ QUOTE ]
I pretty much agree with Sig's standards.
I would like to pose a question to the community. When is it okay to kick someone from a team, or more specifically from a Task Force?
I ask this question because the other day I was teaming with an illusion/empath controller who was not pulling their own weight. This is a pet peeve of mine, when on a team I expect people to be contributing appropriately. Or "actively participate" at the very least.
Yet this controller, and his empathy/archery friend were two of the worst empaths I've seen. The defender played more like an archery blaster and the controller put heal aura on auto fire and kept going afk. Between the pair of them, there were no recovery auras, the blaster with aid other was more reliable if I was in danger. There was not one single fortitude despite both of them having the power. Fortitude alone would have made my life a lot easier - we had no tanks so I was leading with control.
So while I don't like confrontation, I don't like being taken advantage of either. I almost kicked them off the Task Force but I was worried that the team might collapse out of horror. The sight of seeing even the laziest empath being kicked might cause mutiny, regardless of how well deserved it was in my opinion.
Stepping back, I calmed down a bit and instead made a sarcastic comment about whether autofiring heal aura was the only thing this controller was capable of, in which case a level 2 sidekicked would be more valuable. I know this was wrong, but in my mind sometimes people just have to be told and he did seem to improve a bit afterwards.
So back to my original question, when is it okay to kick for this kind of misbehaviour?
Would you rather stay silent and go along with it for a peaceful ride or stand up and possibly cause confrontation?
When does rage become nerdrage?