When is it okay to kick?
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2009-05-20 08:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't read the whole thread, but wanted to pop in with a couple remarks:
1) I don't know if it's the Steam deal or what, but I have seen a ton of no-vet-badge players out there. I tend to find noobishness cute if perpetrated by a genuine noob. Attempt to teach before attempting to punish seems a good rule when dealing with new players.
2) Playernotes are great. Using a playernote can help you avoid playing with a player in the future since they are global (too bad they don't show up in the search window, but that's another story). Make sure to set them to "always on" in the options, this will put them above a players head (only if they have been rated) as you travel the city.
Also, the best thing about playernotes is that it is a great way to alleviate stress without kicking or punishing a player. Take down the note, feel some self-satisfaction, and finish out the TF/arc/etc. with that idiot running around with the 1 lil star over his/her head.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) Firstly, its not my job to teach new players how to play. You can tell by how no one is paying me to do it. I am under no particular responsability to spend my free time tutoring others. I prefer to spend my free time doing things that are fun. Also, even if I were, experience tells me that very few people will actually take advice - most will simply get mad at you for daring to imply that they should stop re-using the tactic that has already resulted in 14 team-whipes, or that it may be important to select certain powers fundamental to the function of their class (ST holds for controllers; toggle defences for tanks, ECT).
2) I agree! Playernotes are excellent for this sort of thing.
The way I see it, if whatever it is you are doing is going to be easier and/or more rewarding for the team if you kick said person, then kick away. TFs are a bit different. While I agree that I don't owe people my time, in general, joining a TF is a bit of an agreement to stick with it. A bit. If someone is making things impossible or turning a 2 hour TF into a 4 hour TF, then again, kick away.
Otherwise even underperforming teammates can still be useful as padding for spawn sizes or as target dummies for the enemy.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bad_Influence wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
QR: What becomes a legend most, I mean what deserves a kick the most....?
Answer: TANKS WHO REFUSE TO TANK! These are few things more annoying [rockin' the aura might be one of them].
[/ QUOTE ]
^
this
There is NOTHING in game that gets under my skin quite like a timid tank. (Not even rewdboi jerkholes) Why the heck would you play that archtype if you don't want to be the one to jump in first?
[removes cathartic rant]
[/ QUOTE ]
Becuase you're a noob, and choose tha class that has the best survivability withotu really understanding anything about the strategic setup of the classes, or MMOs in general. Altenratively because you're slightly less incompetant, but you are accustomed to less survivable character types and although you know that you know intelectually that a tank should be able to effortlessly withstand the punishment that would kill your blaster, you haven't yet acclimated your less conscious play behavior to that fact.
Or was that rhetorical question?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is just me: I avoided melee characters for almost two years, because I did not want to take point. Ever.
As I matured as a player, I began to experiment with melee and now find it highly enjoyable, unless teamed with an idiot who thinks Speed Boost in a CoT cave is just the end-all of all possible fun.
My point here is that if one is uncomfortable playing melee.... play something else. Both the player and their team will be much happier.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, tanks, as I so often remind people, are merely an inadequate substitute for proper control. ;D
Sorry, but I couldn't resist.
[/ QUOTE ]
In three years of playing, I have yet to see the control that can take the place of damage and/or shielding. Sorry, have not seen it, and I have been on both sides of the equation.
ESPECIALLY late-game, when everyone and their little brother is sporting purple triangles.
Control is a great thing. I like it a lot. A substitute for a good point-person.... er..... no.
If you ever liek a demonstration you know where to find me. ;D
I play control archetypes. A lot.
Farm spawns are not the same as say, EB/AV spawns or even large boss spawns. You need an aggro dump for those (or a permadom, in the case of boss spawns).
Brutes can tank. I have a /DA scrapper with over 1800hp, 200+ more than a tanker's base HP. I have 65% smashing/lethal resistance, 15 defense to all, and about 40% resistance to everything except energy. I get a full life bar every 15 seconds and I get about 3.6 endurance per second to spend ruining things. This is on a scrapper. A brute can tank at least as well, if not better.
-QR-
When Im playing my Tank I tell people on the team that I am set up as more of a Damage Oriented build than for Herding up the room (it's Fire/Fire)
On Justice
Global @Desi Nova Twitter: @desi_nova Steam: Desi_nova. I don't do Xbox or PS3
I've always wondered peoples thoughts on this.
Well Bad I agree with you kind of. As a controller I usually end up taking the lead and most of the team normally follow me, not because I have the star but because my control powers lockdown most mobs as an opening move. Especially if I do a blanket sweep of mass hypnosis before beginning. (one of the only AoE controls which wont cause aggro)
Having said that, I much rather have a tank, its less riskier. If something goes wrong and I'm leading, I usually end up eating dirt. If we have a tank who can jump in first, it just makes my job much more safer and much easier. When I'm on teams with a good tank, I always let them lead and don't take point myself.
As for AV's, I only have experience of the low level ones, and they don't usually pose much of a threat.
[ QUOTE ]
When Im playing my Tank I tell people on the team that I am set up as more of a Damage Oriented build than for Herding up the room (it's Fire/Fire)
[/ QUOTE ]
OMG, you have a different style of build/play and you WARNED people about it? What's wrong with you? You should do like the invuln I teamed with who INSISTED she could herd (Shadowhunter's wolves) and died again and again because she had skipped Temporary Invulnerability.
When we explained the usefulness of Temp Invuln, her response was:
"I'm not a noob!"
<faceplant>
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I usually give players are least 3 chances before I kick them from the team.
Each chance comes with a warning.
If I think that players on the team might be more helpful if they did a certainthing, or have buff powers that could help me - I usually as if they will please use them on me.
If a character/player is pretty much just obnoxious, they are going to end up getting kicked from my teams.
Players that stand inside of the door of a mission and do nothing are going to get kicked.
If a player keeps rushing into battle before the team is ready and causing team wipes, they are going to get kicked.
If I kick someone from a team, it is not unusual that one or more players tell me that the kicked player should have been kicked and that I was very patient giving them the opportunities that I did to stop whatever behavior of theirs that was causing the issue.
Been on two task forces over the weekend.
In both cases, a team member said they had to go after one or two missions, but then, somehow, showed up again for the last mission.
KICKED!
To keep them on and allow them to collect the rewards would be disrespectful of those who fought their way through the entire task force. One of them was Positron!
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
New or returning to the game? Want advice from experienced players who want to help YOU?
The Mentor Project: Part of the New Player Council.
QR -
Really, as the team leader you can kick whenever you want for whatever reason. Or even for no reason at all, or personal reasons. But as a person with responsibility over a team of up to 7 other people, you should try to be professional about it. If people are causing problems or being troublesome, you're well within your rights to kick them. I've seen teams fall apart because of bad leaders (and I've even caught some on the rebound).
A good way to handle a team is to warn someone first when they do something. If they don't listen, try to see what the rest of the team wants to do. Odds are if they're causing problems that other teammates are noticing and complaining about, kicking them would work just fine for everyone.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
I've seen this done time and time again, and it ALWAYS gets me angry.
Are people actually THAT lazy that they can't be bothered to do something fun?
Playing the game for instance? Arrrgh!
You're very right to kick that type o' player. 1 star them too with the note
"Lazy Git" ;-)
Infernally yours,
-Morbrelach-
PS: This was in response to Xalaqia's post ;-)
[ QUOTE ]
QR -
Really, as the team leader you can kick whenever you want for whatever reason. Or even for no reason at all, or personal reasons. But as a person with responsibility over a team of up to 7 other people, you should try to be professional about it. If people are causing problems or being troublesome, you're well within your rights to kick them. I've seen teams fall apart because of bad leaders (and I've even caught some on the rebound).
A good way to handle a team is to warn someone first when they do something. If they don't listen, try to see what the rest of the team wants to do. Odds are if they're causing problems that other teammates are noticing and complaining about, kicking them would work just fine for everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, that is generally how I approach it. There are exceptions though, if somebody says something too offensive or is harassing another teammate(especially if it's over their build) I will kick without a warning, even on the last mission of a TF.
Hmm, I've never had someone say something so offensive that I've kicked them right off. I could definitely see if someone blew up and started shouting really offensive/vulgar insults at someone for something I probably would. But generally even if teammates get into an argument or start insulting eachother, I tell them to cool it or I'll start kicking, cause we're all just here to have fun and they're ruining it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
I don't kick unless someone is slowing down progress or being a jerk in the chat.
The game is so easy there's no reason to get uptight over builds or how someone plays as long as they're not causing multiple team wipes.
Kicking is a great way to stir up hostility especially without consulting the rest of the team. I find that people who take an almighty leader attitude wind up playing alone. If one person gets kicked or repeatedly "warned" with no regard to the rest of the team's feelings on the matter if makes them all feel expendable.
I've been on teams with uptight 'leaders' and after that out of the blue kick 2 or more extra teammates leave which causes more damage to the team than that one person may have done.
I also really hate anal retentive players who check other player's powers and berate them for it. A little helpful advice is fine, but if the person doesn't want it...move on.
I've pulled together teams of seemingly terrible players and by the end of our run they're terrific. Leading by example is usually the best approach. They'll adjust to the team's overall play style eventually or end up quitting to be replaced by someone who will bring more to the team. You also end up with a lot more friends that way. Catch more flies with honey, etc, etc.
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, I've never had someone say something so offensive that I've kicked them right off. I could definitely see if someone blew up and started shouting really offensive/vulgar insults at someone for something I probably would. But generally even if teammates get into an argument or start insulting eachother, I tell them to cool it or I'll start kicking, cause we're all just here to have fun and they're ruining it.
[/ QUOTE ] I've only had it happen once, somebody dropped a racial slur towards somebody else. That person got kicked right away. But other than something like that, I like to try to calm things down before I resort to kicking.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]When they're down. With a steel toed boot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I much preferred PsychoPez's "iron fisted boot". 
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]
When the player in question suddenly gets that logout timer over their head in the middle of a TF with no advance warning. Kick before the timer reaches 0 to make sure they really really are off the team and not leeching in any way.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]
When the player in question suddenly gets that logout timer over their head in the middle of a TF with no advance warning. Kick before the timer reaches 0 to make sure they really really are off the team and not leeching in any way.
[/ QUOTE ] And when they log back in after having been mapserved, and they are out of the TF?...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]
When the player in question suddenly gets that logout timer over their head in the middle of a TF with no advance warning. Kick before the timer reaches 0 to make sure they really really are off the team and not leeching in any way.
[/ QUOTE ] And when they log back in after having been mapserved, and they are out of the TF?...
[/ QUOTE ]
To elaborate on this, it depends on how they have been playing through the TF thus far. In in the incident that brought up this situation, the player was not playing along with our tactics. This was a mission that required careful pulling and concentration of firepower instead of jumping into the middle of everything and letting loose with the carnage.
Instead, we had on our hands a scrapper who thought he could tank, and kept getting the living daylights pounded out of him despite clear signals from the tactical leader of where we all needed to gather for the pull.
Instead, he kept jumping in and aggroing 2 or more groups at once (one of which in one incident included a pretty tough EB.)
In the final mission of the arc, after the AV beat us for the second time, he entered the mission and started logging out. Judging by his previous behavior and his near silence throughout the arc, I guessed he would not be coming back, so went ahead and kicked him at the last possible second.
At least this was just a MA arc and not a full-blown TF.
So to expand on my previous statement...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When is it okay to kick?
[/ QUOTE ]
When the player in question suddenly gets that logout timer over their head in the middle of a TF with no advance warning, and intuition due to knowledge of how they played up to this point indicates that they won't come back. Kick before the timer reaches 0 to make sure they really really are off the team and not leeching in any way.
[/ QUOTE ]
QR: When is it ok to kick, UPDATED
*People leeching during a Rikti Ship Raid. *BOOT!* Enjoy that nice shiny single star you just earned, floating over your head for all time.
*Melee people who continually say: "Where's my healer? Where are the heals!" when they insist on running off and doing their own thing on a big map. Its totally the healer's fault they're dead, yanno.
*Kids who want to argue about how taking down a bunch of Rikti Pylons has nothing to do with getting us on the ship, why are we fighting these pylons!! Let's go to the ship already, this is bs!! This has nothing to do with a raid...!! etc. etc. even after longsuffering teammates try to explain it to him. Lucky im not the leader, sonny....
*People who REFUSE to hosp. See: leeching, See: *BOOT!*
*People who refuse to pick a travel power and ask "anyone have tp?" FIFTY! THOUSAND! TIMES!
*People who are level 10 and expect people in Peregrine Island to leave a mission and come pick them up in Steel, then tp them all the way to PI.
*People who innocently say "Hey can you invite my buddy?" and the buddy is level 10 on a level 50 team. [I am never the leader when this happens, good thing for the level 10].
*People who invite others to team, who are ten+ levels above them for purposes of unstated PLing. Example: a level 50 is invited to team by a level 20, who has a level 5 SK in tow. Fool me once, etc. etc.... the level 20 is the leader, but in such a case I boot MYSELF off the team, even as the level 20 tries to select my level 50 mission. NOOOOOOOOOOOOT HAPPENING.
And so now I /search every time I get an invite.
[ QUOTE ]
When the player in question suddenly gets that logout timer over their head in the middle of a TF with no advance warning, and intuition due to knowledge of how they played up to this point indicates that they won't come back. Kick before the timer reaches 0 to make sure they really really are off the team and not leeching in any way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds reasonable.
You know there is a /kick command right?
My husband and I started a synapse a few weeks ago, that led to us having to kick someone, partway in.
They were an emp something or other, I don't remember their secondary. From the time we started until the time we booted them, they maybe threw RA twice. No fort or CM was given and yes, they had them. They could be standing right beside us, watch someone dip into the red and die. They stand there some more and then start cracking jokes and then finally rez whoever had just faceplanted.
Then the AFK's really began. Turns out they were doing their homework. I was like...um...WTF?! Warned them twice and nothing seemed to help. Theyr efused to stick with the group and refused to follow any direction. Their constant AFK's and no buffings, were making things very difficult. They seemed to like to crack jokes and goof off, rather than actually play and contribute.
I placed a note on them, one starred and kicked. The TF went much smoother from then on out.