[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to go ahead and apologize for pretty much everything I've said today.
The remark Bill made about killing and life support really hit a sensitive spot in my heart and -really- threw me out of whack. I've been emotional, rude, and verbally abusive. I'm sorry. And I hope everyone can forgive me.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
It's already forgotten.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
[ QUOTE ]
Just to clarify something here though.
The line about 'defeat'. Very rarely does it mean anything other than defeat. Jack explicitly stated it was used to allow it to be determined by the mind of the player and that some heroes would be norm for them to kill, and other players would be abherant if they left a bruise.
[/ QUOTE ]
Some CoV missions heavily imply killing. Things like "leave no witnesses" or "eliminate all witnesses" as a mission goal and "you left no one alive" during a mission complete.
CoH is much more nebulous, but yeah I think it's meant to be left to your imagination for the most part, except for named characters who continue to come back - they have plot immunity to death :-)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
I can't wait to stand proudly under the Atlas statue as a licensed hero as my zombie minions gather flies around me.
Their bloated rotting bodies dancing jollily as I command my undead meat puppets to amuse me.
Then I shall be thanked by citizens as I stop purse snatchers and shakedowns with their dead Papa's assistance. They will welcome me and my army of flesh hungry diseased maggot farms.
The glories of Paragon where the ends truly justify the means!
[ QUOTE ]
I can't wait to stand proudly under the Atlas statue as a licensed hero as my zombie minions gather flies around me.
Their bloated rotting bodies dancing jollily as I command my undead meat puppets to amuse me.
Then I shall be thanked by citizens as I stop purse snatchers and shakedowns with their dead Papa's assistance. They will welcome me and my army of flesh hungry diseased maggot farms.
The glories of Paragon where the ends truly justify the means!
[/ QUOTE ]
You are obviously a necromancer, trying to revive a dead topic like this. Unfortunately the stench of troll is overpowering even that of your zombies!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't wait to stand proudly under the Atlas statue as a licensed hero as my zombie minions gather flies around me.
Their bloated rotting bodies dancing jollily as I command my undead meat puppets to amuse me.
Then I shall be thanked by citizens as I stop purse snatchers and shakedowns with their dead Papa's assistance. They will welcome me and my army of flesh hungry diseased maggot farms.
The glories of Paragon where the ends truly justify the means!
[/ QUOTE ]
You are obviously a necromancer, trying to revive a dead topic like this. Unfortunately the stench of troll is overpowering even that of your zombies!
[/ QUOTE ]I do practice necromancy as it is a fine and noble art. I take offense at being called a troll.
This will be my last post in this thread. =-3
Frankl;y, I couldn't care how you roleplay. Or what you roleplay. It's not up to me to tell you your character's business.
Just don't do it around me. Don't have your Murderous Darkity Dark soul stealing 'Hero' run missions with my bright and suny spandex clad speedster. Don't have your ripped from World of Darkness Vampire antideluvian malkavian spit his crazy on my righteous justice.
It's not a mater of being an 'elitist', as I'm sure a few forum posters will accuse me of. It's a matter of Continuity.
And continuity is the only method by which a persistent story can be told. Which is the core of all my roleplay and characters.
So when my shiny-tights speedster runs up to a Vanguard soldier to deliver new orders to move on the southern front I -don't- want to hear your D&D Character telling me there was no Rikti War.
When I charge a core of Nemesis Soldiers don't tell me that Brass Monday was a farce and that you are the lovechild of Lord Nemesis and Sister Psyche which is what -really- happened on that day.
If you don't treat the world around you seriously, I will not take you seriously.
And I'm -well- aware that superpowers would -completely- alter the way everything works in the Real World. However we aren't dealing with the Real World. We're dealing with the Real World through a filtered lens.
In a world of Superheroics and true magic we'd have no stage magicians. Medical technology would be far further advanced if Positron and the other tech characters applied themselves. Infinite Energy. Buildings the likes of which we'll never see in our lifetime. And personal conveyances made of rocket packs and jump-jets.
However people in a superhero-filled world react similarly to a gun pointed at their head to how they'd react to it in the Real World. Only instead of praying for the police, they'll be praying for tights.
Ultimately: If we cannot agree to the world in which we're roleplaying then we cannot roleplay together. And that's not a negative thing. It just means we'll be doing it separately. As my version of how the world works simply does not mesh with yours.
Neither is 'wrong' though I will -still- never accept the scene LISAR just described as Canonical.
So yes. I'm not holding any grudges. But you have to remember that while you can explain away all the evil to yourself I represent at least -some- fraction of the populace which will not accept the handwaving over the Necromantic arts. Which, I believe, this thread was asking the opinion of.
We've come to agree on many different ways to rationalize and roleplay a zombie mastermind heroside that fit into many of our versions of in game reality as heroic.
And of course I know Bill had no intent to upset me. We're still friends! =-3
I hope I can say the same for the rest of you!
-Rachel-
*Edit* I should note that this was a Quick Reply >.> Not a direct response to anyone in particular...
I hold nothing against you Cobalt, even though you refuse to accept my field as pure an noble and insist on lumping me in with crazies like Dr V (who is evil not because he livens up the dead through firnge science but becasue he also practices on the living).
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't wait to stand proudly under the Atlas statue as a licensed hero as my zombie minions gather flies around me.
Their bloated rotting bodies dancing jollily as I command my undead meat puppets to amuse me.
Then I shall be thanked by citizens as I stop purse snatchers and shakedowns with their dead Papa's assistance. They will welcome me and my army of flesh hungry diseased maggot farms.
The glories of Paragon where the ends truly justify the means!
[/ QUOTE ]
You are obviously a necromancer, trying to revive a dead topic like this. Unfortunately the stench of troll is overpowering even that of your zombies!
[/ QUOTE ]I do practice necromancy as it is a fine and noble art. I take offense at being called a troll.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh-huh. I see wut yoo did thar.
Looks like Rachel couldn't resist and bit hard on the bait anyways.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
Rachel?
QR-
Necroscope by Brian Lumley. I would say that Harry Keogh is a good necromancer. He talks to the dead, the dead will come and fight for him, if he asks. They love him and will protect him.
No one pays attention to me, cause I listen to the voices in my head.
[ QUOTE ]
Rachel?
[/ QUOTE ]
I am guessing that's CobaltConstable's name, since she signs all her posts: -Rachel-
I could be wrong tho. But that's a pretty big hint.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
I..stop reading when I see signatures...
Hmm another interesting point
Diablo 2 had a 'heroic' necromancer as an option, the special class specific AT dialogue from certain characters you meet normally treats them as highly suspiscious.
However, the Necromancers merely have a different view on things as shown in their background.
[ QUOTE ]
From the steamy recesses of the southern swamps comes a figure cloaked in mystery. The Necromancer, as his name implies, is an unseemly form of Sorcerer whose spells deal with the raising of the dead and the summoning and control of various creatures for his purposes. Though his goals are often aligned with those of the forces of Light, some do not think that these ends can justify his foul means. Long hours of study in dank mausolea have made his skin pale and corpse-like, and his figure is skeletal. Most people shun him for his peculiar looks and ways, but none doubt the power of the Necromancer, for it is the stuff of nightmares. They are Priests of the cult of Rathma that hail from the far Eastern jungle. They live in a vast underground city in these jungles where they can pursue their arcane magic. Through the teaching of Rathma and years of research, they understand and hold sacred the delicate balance of life and death and protect it with their life.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Necromancer is certainly the anti-hero out of the bunch. However we must remember the world of Diablo has a very different mindset to that of City of Heroes. It's more of a 'do what you must to destroy the demons infesting our world'.
Masterminds aside, how can you rationalize Stalkers as Heroes? I mean, they SNEAK up on their targets and ASSASSINATE them! How is THAT heroic?!
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
Stalkers assassinate people...so do Marines..or SEALS, SWAT if they have to. Punisher kills peolpe all the time. Sometimes they don't even know he's on to them. He just blows the building up.
No one pays attention to me, cause I listen to the voices in my head.
Okay I didn't read all 12 pages, so don't shoot me if this is a repeat!!
For the people that are saying that Necromancers are using the corpses of people's loved ones: What if YOU are the loved one and even after their death, your family/ancestors are trying to protect you from receiving the same fate?
Especially if, say, the family was brutally killed by one of the CoV enemy groups. If that was me and I had the ability to come back and A) get some kind of revenge and B) make sure that my only remaining family member didn't get killed as well... I would do it without thinking twice.
[ QUOTE ]
Stalkers assassinate people...so do Marines..or SEALS, SWAT if they have to. Punisher kills peolpe all the time. Sometimes they don't even know he's on to them. He just blows the building up.
[/ QUOTE ]
None of that makes an assassination any more heroic. I find it harder to justify a Stalker as heroic than I do a Necromancer.
[ QUOTE ]
Masterminds aside, how can you rationalize Stalkers as Heroes? I mean, they SNEAK up on their targets and ASSASSINATE them! How is THAT heroic?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, another interesting point.
The primary ability of all stalkers is not Assassination. Yes, it's a large part of the stalker arsenal, but it's not their strongest ability. Their strongest ability is their stealth. <Don't believe me? stand behind an AV with a Stalker. You can be there all week before they notice you. No other stealth/invis in the game works quite as well>
Now we do have several literary/comic examples of heroes that make a habit of striking from the shadows. Batman is a prime example. His style is very stalker-ish. Hit from the shadows with a single decisive strike and then fade away to get his next target.
Remember that the Bat has often been as much feared as loved, as much criminal vigilante as Dark Knight. As a hero, the stalker would inhabit that same general area. The public might appreciate what they do but they'd probably be happier if they did it somewhere else. I don't think they'd ever be fully accepted however.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay I didn't read all 12 pages, so don't shoot me if this is a repeat!!
For the people that are saying that Necromancers are using the corpses of people's loved ones: What if YOU are the loved one and even after their death, your family/ancestors are trying to protect you from receiving the same fate?
Especially if, say, the family was brutally killed by one of the CoV enemy groups. If that was me and I had the ability to come back and A) get some kind of revenge and B) make sure that my only remaining family member didn't get killed as well... I would do it without thinking twice.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't worry. No flames here.
I think that this is an interesting story idea. It would be a good explanation why someone who could raise/control the dead would be operating as a hero. I've heard a few others propose equally good ideas.
The basic point that this all started with is that the general public would have a very hard time ever accepting that person, whatever their motives might be, as a hero.
Many cultures do believe that their dead watch over them and can even act from beyond to protect their family/tribe. I don't think anyone would have a problem if those dead ancestors were ghosts or spirits. It's the actual corpses that create the problem. Irregardless of whether or not the corpses were willingly donated or were bodies of those who had done wrong in their life, people just have a really hard time accepting the idea of walking corpses.
Of course, this is just a game based on comic/fantasy reality. The citizens of Paragon are a pretty casual bunch. For all we know, they could be stocking up on perfume soaked filter masks.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Punisher and Jack Bauer do many questionable things for the sake of good. To them the ends justify the means.
[/ QUOTE ]
Jack Bauer is a God!!~
Sorry couldn't help it!
[/ QUOTE ] Jack Bauer is a god! Couldn't agree more. Did you watch it last night?
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course... I just hate getting left hanging like that though! 
[/ QUOTE ] Me too.
[ QUOTE ]
Jack Bauer is a God!!~
Sorry couldn't help it!
[/ QUOTE ]
Jack Bauer
by the great Luke Ski
Jack: The following takes place between track one, and track three.
(SFX: clock beeping intro)
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
Espionage in the L.A. scenes,
Where most time the ends, they justify the means.
And ever since late 2001,
You'll see real time flies when you're under the gun.
Counter Terrorist Unit agent Jack Bauer,
Often needs a shave and probably a shower.
Buchanan's the Director of field operations,
Almeida is tactical, Michelle's communications,
Edgar's an egghead, and Chloe is snarky,
and Morris is British and full of melarchy.
But I might be wrong, cause they always change stations,
Due to sudden promotions or exterminations.
But aided by their digital clockin' stanza,
They're building up tension when commercials do pass.
Never before has right-wing propganda
Disguised as entertainment kicked so much [censored]!
Come on!
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
Henchman: You can't do this to me! It's illegal!
Jack: Oh, you'd be surprised what kinds of torture my government has legalized. Let's turn on the 13 hour marathon of American Idol auditions!
Henchman: No! Stop! You can't do this! Ahhh! Ahhh! No, it's horrible!
Jack: TELL ME! TELL ME WHERE HE IS NOW! TALK, DAMMIT!
Henchman: Okay! Okay! I'll talk! I'll talk!
Top of the hour at the CTU,
And Chloe and the crew ain't got much to do,
When some Scientologist sleeper cel leader
Hacks into their system with a message to read.
Surrender, America! Make me Arch-Duke
Or I'll blow you all up with my suitcase nuke
Full of nerve gas and virus that turns you six colors
And also you must pay me one billion dollars!
Suddenly Jack manifests in a blink.
Guy 1: I thought you were dead?
Jack: That's what I wanted you to think.
And despite his past insubordinate behavior
They reinstate him like a federal savior.
They give him some choppers and tanks and humvees,
And a cell phone that detects W.M.D.s,
A main frame computer the size of your basement,
And a Ford F150 just for product placement.
While Jack sets off for some interrogation,
The President's appraised of the situation.
His advisors are all corporate schills, that's for certain,
Like some Army commander named Hal A. Burton
Who insists that to soothe America's own rage
Is to bomb other countries back to the stone age.
But President Palmer ignores those demands.
Because he knows,
Palmer: That's were all states stand.
So while those guys try to remove him from office
We find out the new CTU techie novice
Is really a mole there to knock them off kilter,
Who commits sabotage, and removes their spam filter.
But when he's discovered he kidnaps Jack's daughter
Who's as easy to nab as a cold glass of water.
If you want her alive you must grant me immunity,
And extradite me to my home community!
Do as I say or she will be dead! Aaaah!
(SFX: Smack! Thud!)
...Jack-boot to the head!
Jack: Now tell me the info to stop your attack,
And maybe you'll live with your nuts in tact.
Spills the beans, then Jack and the Marines,
Stop the bad guys and their domestic weapon machines.
Like a ninja, Jack splits, down the road he'll hitch hike.
The only thing that could defeat him is a writer's strike!
Oh no!
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
(SFX: CTU phone rings twice)
Chloe: Obrien.
Jack: Chloe, it's Jack. I need you to upload new dialogue to my PDA stat.
Chloe: I'm sorry Jack, we don't have a script yet.
Jack: Dammit, Chloe, what am I supposed to say now?
Chloe: I don't know. Why don't you say 'dammit' a few more times?
Jack: Dammit, that isn't going to be good enough!
Chloe: Well you use it in every other line of dialogue. That, and 'son of a [censored]'.
Jack: Son of a [censored]!
Chloe: Told 'ja.
Jack: How am I supposed to keep America safe from Communists and hippies and the concept of tolerance if I don't have any tough-guy things to say?
Chloe: Hold on, I'll see if I can steal some dialogue from the internet.
Jack: Thanks Chloe, what would I do without you?
Chloe: Probably get killed about twice an hour.
Jack: What?
Chloe: *sigh*, nothing Jack.
Chloe Obrien. She's always lyin'
To cover Jack's tracks when he's not complyin'.
Always pryin' with uber leet spyin',
And she does it all while rolling her eyes and sighin'.
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
He's Jack Bauer, got skills to spare.
Other secret agent types will never compare.
Forget Jack Ryan, he's not much of a reader.
Don't need an Alias, cause he got La Femme Nikita.
He gave Jason Bourne his Burn Notice, it's true,
And told Prisoner Number Six,
"Be seeing you".
Unlike MacGuyver, his tech's not absurd.
And he left James Bond both shaken and stirred.
You say 'Austin Powers', and he'll just say 'NOT!'
And he makes Maxwell Smart look like Michael Scott.
The CSI cops are now outlined in chalk,
And Chuck Norris, Texas Ranger, now uses a walker.
So if you fear some bad guys who are pissed about our wars,
And you think that extremists are all hiding in your drawers,
Convinced that you'll fall victim to a terrorist attack,
Well then click your box to Fox because you don't know Jack!
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
Jack: What happen?
Chloe: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Jack: Dammit!
Chloe: We get signal.
Jack: What?
Chloe: Main screen turn on.
Jack: It's you!
Bad Guy: How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us. You are on the way to destruction.
Jack: What you say?!
Bad Guy: You have no chance to survive make your time. Ha Ha Ha Ha....
Chloe: Jack!
Jack: Son of a [censored]!
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
(Music cuts out)
Jack Bauer. He got the power.
Minute by minute, and hour after hour.
He's hard corps, gonna stop the war.
And he ain't gonna quit until he hits 24.
(SFX: End of episode clock sound)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
Is Ragman evil, for giving the souls of evildoers a last chance at redemption?
Admittedly he doesn't reanimate their bodies, but he does draw on and consume their spirits for strength, and if he exhausts them before some arbitrary period of time has passed they're condemned to their eternal reward.
This may be why he never had his own series...
I played Diablo 2. I know a necromancer can do good things.
<QR>
I'm basically anti RP. I'd love to see a us grab a team, speed run the STF, go "rogue" then speed run the LRSF, then go back.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Going Rogue RP comment of complete randomness.
Praetorian Pocket D is a PVP Zone.
[ QUOTE ]
Pssssssssst! >.>
You can't kill in CoH. According to the story you always arrest the baddies. No matter how violently you arrest them, or how mangled their bodies ragdoll.
But if you want to ROLEPLAY killing: Fine! But roleplay the consequences, too. Or you're breaking versimilitude.
And whether a soul can heal or not damaging it is damaging someone's eternal essence... And that's just plain wrong! =-P
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
Just to clarify something here though.
The line about 'defeat'. Very rarely does it mean anything other than defeat. Jack explicitly stated it was used to allow it to be determined by the mind of the player and that some heroes would be norm for them to kill, and other players would be abherant if they left a bruise.
Let's Dance!