[ QUOTE ]
Then that's different. Basically, my original post was mostly in response to all the posts I've seen on the forums that say "Going Rogue makes no sense! There's no way a Zombie Mastermind, Kheldian, or (insert AT here) could be good/evil. My point was that depending how you roleplay anything can be.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup.
[ QUOTE ]
I also don't think villains are going to get the hero level up badges. Just their own. I could be wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a mistake to assume that badges carry with them any kind of actual in-game meaning. They're just meta-game gimmies/rewards. They don't have an objective reality in the game world itself. You can choose to RP that they do, but really they're a metagame reward more than anything (or do you really think that standing on the roof of Aeon University will make everyone know you as an Egghead?).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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[ QUOTE ]
It never says your destroying their soul. And who's to say a soul can't heal on it's own?
[/ QUOTE ]
"Oh, come on, Harry. All you mortals get all humg up over your precious souls. You've never seen your soul, never done anything with it. What's all the to-do?"
*clip*
"But my soul's going to get better, right?"
"Oh, sure," Bob said. "Few days, a week or two at most, it'll grow back in. Go out and have a good time, enjoy yourself, do somethings that uplift the human spirit or whatever, and it'll come back even faster."
.... sorry, first thing that came to mind with that.
("Small Favor," Jim Butcher.)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then that's different. Basically, my original post was mostly in response to all the posts I've seen on the forums that say "Going Rogue makes no sense! There's no way a Zombie Mastermind, Kheldian, or (insert AT here) could be good/evil. My point was that depending how you roleplay anything can be. I also don't think villains are going to get the hero level up badges. Just their own. I could be wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a mistake to assume that badges carry with them any kind of actual in-game meaning. They're just meta-game gimmies/rewards. They don't have an objective reality in the game world itself. You can choose to RP that they do, but really they're a metagame reward more than anything (or do you really think that standing on the roof of Aeon University will make everyone know you as an Egghead?).
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that's true.
And then what happens? You lose any kind of credibility as a roleplayer and the whole point of this thread is moot...? Your RP becomes pointless, since without consequences actions have no weight. Being EVIL doesn't feel evil if everyone treats you as a Hero.
Without gravity your roleplay becomes 'light' and ultimately logic fails.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
And then what happens? You lose any kind of credibility as a roleplayer
[/ QUOTE ]
With whom?
And then what happens?
[ QUOTE ]
Your RP becomes pointless
[/ QUOTE ]
To whom?
[ QUOTE ]
Being EVIL doesn't feel evil if everyone treats you as a Hero.
[/ QUOTE ]
So when Lex Luthor becomes Mayor of Metropolis, or President of the United States, that means he's really a lousy roleplayer?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Alright, Mindy. That's enough questions.
-Rachel-
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Killing is a horrible and deplorable act for a hero to commit. You're ending someone's life. It creates pain in the form of remorse (Typically) for the hero, pain for the victim's family, and a total lack of feeling in the Victim. But tampering with and damaging someone's eternal aspect is a -far- more heinous act. As it damages them eternally.
[/ QUOTE ]
No.
Killing is a tool. It's a very powerful tool with a very narrow range of application, and it's easy to overuse, but it no more inherently good or evil then any other tool. The morality of the act is determined by the reasons behind it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Killing is wrong. Killing is bad. Killing is only socially acceptable when it is the lesser of two evils. Kill one man before he kills a thousand. The act itself is still evil, but it's a lesser evil.
Killing is the gun that fires puppies.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
I grant you the right to idealism, and I offer condolences to the choice you made for your father. It must have been difficult.
Respectfully, however, I believe you are wrong. No act is unjustifiable, and there are many, many good reasons why a person should no longer be allowed to exist.
But, I think we're dealing in rather incompatible philosophies, and Bill is right- this is a long argument. I'm more than happy to continue it in private, though.
[ QUOTE ]
Alright, Mindy. That's enough questions.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
But not nearly enough answers.
Your statements are made like platitudes of "this is how thou shalt RP thine hero/villain/rogue and no other ways are acceptable" as if there is some kind of law of the land about how RP should/should not be done in CoX. Requiring that everyone else submit to your understanding of the hero/villain divide and what that actually means, and conform from an RP perspective in order to make you happy, will do more to damage your credibility as an RPer than someone playing a good-guy Necro MM.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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I just want to know where this reply came in from. I didn't claim that consequences don't have any weight or that you can get away with everything. I just conceded the point that it's up to you whether to roleplay if the badges you gain have any kind of real meaning. Just because you roleplay that badges don't have meaning and that the badges you've obtained doesn't mean anything doesn't make your rp pointless.
I like having my own imagination.
So like... I can RP anything I want.
I just made a zombie MM that has magical rainbow skittles that like honey and will be in Atlas park someday soon.
Muah Ha
[ QUOTE ]
I just want to know where this reply came in from.
[/ QUOTE ]
She was replying to me.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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[ QUOTE ]
I like having my own imagination.
So like... I can RP anything I want.
I just made a zombie MM that has magical rainbow skittles that like honey and will be in Atlas park someday soon.
Muah Ha
[/ QUOTE ]
You still here?
Shoo!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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When you roleplay in a Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game not everyone's opinions of how things should be done will line up. Ever.
But a roleplayer does not bend the world to their character. They bend their character to the world. They play the character the way the world allows.
If murder is illegal and villains are to be apprehended then killing a villain is wrong. "Oh! It was self defense!" All 450 times? If you can only defend yourself by killing your enemies then you REALLY shouldn't be in this line of work, huh?
A Hero killing 1 or 2 people 'because they had no other choice' might be forgiven by the populace based on the facts of the situation. A "Hero" who goes around killing every Hellion he finds is quickly going to have a whole lot of angry mothers fathers sisters brothers daughters sons wives girlfriends nephews nieces grandmas and grandpas lobbying for his arrest based on his actions.
When you're in a Massively Multiplayer roleplaying game you have to respect everyone's roleplay. So I will respect that you've chosen to roleplay a murdering antihero. Now respect my choice to live in a world where a murdering antihero is considered a criminal based on the consequences of his or her actions.
Think about it LOGICALLY. The Government issues licenses with security levels on them. Does this mean that a mass murdering antihero can get a license just by walking up and asking nicely? Probably not. Could a soon to be antihero mass murderer get a license BEFORE becoming an anti-hero? Probably! Could he retain a governmentally issued license after becoming a mass murdering anti-hero? No.
Respect the confines of the game world. Where there are no boundaries -set- use logic to set boundaries based on your real world experience. If you go beyond the boundaries that, in a real world situation would cause consequences, acknowledge the consequences in character.
The best roleplay is improv. The best Improv is: "Yes and"
But yes. In a game with hundreds of roleplayers, thousands even, you have to create some sort of -global- setting. And within that global setting it's up to the roleplayers to keep things going in a logical progression.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
But yes. In a game with hundreds of roleplayers, thousands even, you have to create some sort of -global- setting. And within that global setting it's up to the roleplayers to keep things going in a logical progression.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that you're assuming everyone sees the divide between "right and wrong" and "hero and villain" or even "hero and anti-hero" the same as you do (or that they SHOULD see it the same as you do since you're Obviously and Objectively Right(tm).) Which may not be the case.
I'm not going to get hung up on the kill or not arguement, because I think it's a red herring.
However, I have seen you pontificate a great deal in this thread about what is Right and Wrong and Good and Evil as if these were objective and rigid concepts with a clearly defined line and your interpretation of them are objectively correct.
Obviously not everyone agrees with you on where that line should be drawn, not in the real world and not in a fictional comic book world where there are people with superpowers, and that doesn't make them poor roleplayers just because their interpretations of why their Necromancer Mastermind can, in fact, be a hero doesn't jive with your personal view on morality.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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There's also, like I said, the fact that currently there's a dimension that threatens to overtake our very universe (not just our planet) and that these same Necromancers/Villains are willing to fight on our side. It's like the united states. People cheered when Japan surrendered but had the U.S. drop a nuke on a country that just threatened us there'd be a huge outcry. People's opinions on what's right or wrong change depending how great a threat is to them.
With the threat of another dimension conquering our own many people who would be against such villains being given licenses may quietly accept it. In time their concepts could be changed forever if they help thwart the conquest. As I said earlier, that's the expansions theme, the line between good/evil has been blurred because of this massive threat. What used to be considered morally wrong is just viewed as questionable. What was once questionable is now accepted.
It was this chaos that paved way to Necromancers getting licenses. Kheldians not watched so closely and peace bringers straying towards the path of darkness to use their prejudice. Warshades having the opportunity to switch back to nictus either from greed or fear of the over zealous peacebringers. Citizens that would normally cry out in protest are now sitting quietly not wanting to be invaded.
[ QUOTE ]
There's also, like I said, the fact that currently there's a dimension that threatens to overtake our very universe (not just our planet) and that these same Necromancers/Villains are willing to fight on our side. It's like the united states. People cheered when Japan surrendered but had the U.S. drop a nuke on a country that just threatened us there'd be a huge outcry. People's opinions on what's right or wrong change depending how great a threat is to them.
With the threat of another dimension conquering our own many people who would be against such villains being given licenses may quietly accept it. In time their concepts could be changed forever if they help thwart the conquest. As I said earlier, that's the expansions theme, the line between good/evil has been blurred because of this massive threat. What used to be considered morally wrong is just viewed as questionable. What was once questionable is now accepted.
It was this chaos that paved way to Necromancers getting licenses. Kheldians not watched so closely and peace bringers straying towards the path of darkness to use their prejudice. Warshades having the opportunity to switch back to nictus either from greed or fear of the over zealous peacebringers. Citizens that would normally cry out in protest are now sitting quietly not wanting to be invaded.
[/ QUOTE ]
And honestly the door has already been opened by Vanguard accepting villains into it's ranks. How many "evil" people can now be seen on the evening news "heroically" fighting the "alien menace" in the RWZ? Legally, Vanguard changed the status of those people, at least as far as international law is concerned. It also may have started to influence the masses as well.
The camel's nose is already in the tent where the villain/hero divide is becoming fuzzy.
And lest we forget there are ample examples in comics of heroes becoming villains and vice versa. This is nothing new.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
Smurch.
In the REAL WORLD A Superhero, licensed to arrest villains would be put in prison for killing hundreds a day.
In the REAL WORLD a protest would rise against someone using the bodies of loved ones to fight crime.
In the REAL WORLD a lot of what's been suggested wouldn't be acceptable, even if it -was- possible.
Hence why I'm objectively right for ever and ever. If you're going to attack me as a person, by all means stop posting.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
Smurch.
In the REAL WORLD A Superhero, licensed to arrest villains would be put in prison for killing hundreds a day.
In the REAL WORLD a protest would rise against someone using the bodies of loved ones to fight crime.
In the REAL WORLD a lot of what's been suggested wouldn't be acceptable, even if it -was- possible.
Hence why I'm objectively right for ever and ever. If you're going to attack me as a person, by all means stop posting.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
I respect this, however, I think in the real world if governments found a way to bring back the dead and use them to fight in wars people wouldn't object as much. I think some groups would at first but it'd calm down in favor of other people not having to risk their lives or the need to draft living people. I can see people quietly accepting it and in time with it becoming the norm. Considering a dimension is threatening to take over our world it's the same concept.
[ QUOTE ]
Smurch.
In the REAL WORLD A Superhero, licensed to arrest villains would be put in prison for killing hundreds a day.
In the REAL WORLD a protest would rise against someone using the bodies of loved ones to fight crime.
In the REAL WORLD a lot of what's been suggested wouldn't be acceptable, even if it -was- possible.
Hence why I'm objectively right for ever and ever. If you're going to attack me as a person, by all means stop posting.
[/ QUOTE ]
In the REAL WORLD there ARE NO SUPERBEINGS and if you don't think that would radically change society's perspective on alot of topics, you're kidding yourself.
If you honestly believe that your view of black-and-white morality is objectively correct "forever and ever" then you really need to take a step back and realize that the definitions of right and wrong have been changed many times throughout history in just one culture, and there are cultural differences as well.
And for the record in our culture there are time when it is generally agreed that killing is NOT immoral or evil, times when using the bodies of dead loved ones to save lives IS acceptable, and that perhaps the primary reason why none of what is suggested in this thread would be accepted in the real world is because it's NOT possible. We don't live in a world where magic powers are real, where giant robots exist, where people shoot x-rays from their eyes, where extra-dimensional aliens invaded our planet, where another dimension is in the process of invading ours, or where people actually can summon up the dead to have them fight crime (or commit crimes) because if we DID live in such a world I think we'd be very different as a society.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
I'd like to go ahead and apologize for pretty much everything I've said today.
The remark Bill made about killing and life support really hit a sensitive spot in my heart and -really- threw me out of whack. I've been emotional, rude, and verbally abusive. I'm sorry. And I hope everyone can forgive me.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to go ahead and apologize for pretty much everything I've said today.
The remark Bill made about killing and life support really hit a sensitive spot in my heart and -really- threw me out of whack. I've been emotional, rude, and verbally abusive. I'm sorry. And I hope everyone can forgive me.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
I was never upset with you nor do I think you're a bad person. I actually had fun discussing this topic. I'm sorry that someone in this thread upset you and I truly do hope that you feel better. I'm also sure that Bill didn't mean to cause any pain or upset.
[ QUOTE ]
When you roleplay in a Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game not everyone's opinions of how things should be done will line up. Ever.
But a roleplayer does not bend the world to their character. They bend their character to the world. They play the character the way the world allows.
If murder is illegal and villains are to be apprehended then killing a villain is wrong. "Oh! It was self defense!" All 450 times? If you can only defend yourself by killing your enemies then you REALLY shouldn't be in this line of work, huh?
A Hero killing 1 or 2 people 'because they had no other choice' might be forgiven by the populace based on the facts of the situation. A "Hero" who goes around killing every Hellion he finds is quickly going to have a whole lot of angry mothers fathers sisters brothers daughters sons wives girlfriends nephews nieces grandmas and grandpas lobbying for his arrest based on his actions.
When you're in a Massively Multiplayer roleplaying game you have to respect everyone's roleplay. So I will respect that you've chosen to roleplay a murdering antihero. Now respect my choice to live in a world where a murdering antihero is considered a criminal based on the consequences of his or her actions.
Think about it LOGICALLY. The Government issues licenses with security levels on them. Does this mean that a mass murdering antihero can get a license just by walking up and asking nicely? Probably not. Could a soon to be antihero mass murderer get a license BEFORE becoming an anti-hero? Probably! Could he retain a governmentally issued license after becoming a mass murdering anti-hero? No.
Respect the confines of the game world. Where there are no boundaries -set- use logic to set boundaries based on your real world experience. If you go beyond the boundaries that, in a real world situation would cause consequences, acknowledge the consequences in character.
The best roleplay is improv. The best Improv is: "Yes and"
But yes. In a game with hundreds of roleplayers, thousands even, you have to create some sort of -global- setting. And within that global setting it's up to the roleplayers to keep things going in a logical progression.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
Peace.
I'm not, and never was, advocating for death as the first and best solution to most crime. And I never -absolutely never- suggested murder was a solution. Though, depending on your definition it very well might be, under certain circumstances. That's neither here, nor there, though, so we'll move it along.
My argument is, and has always been, that killing can be a solution, and there are situations where it is not only not 'evil', it is the morally correct thing to do.
[ QUOTE ]
Think about it LOGICALLY. The Government issues licenses with security levels on them. Does this mean that a mass murdering antihero can get a license just by walking up and asking nicely? Probably not. Could a soon to be antihero mass murderer get a license BEFORE becoming an anti-hero? Probably! Could he retain a governmentally issued license after becoming a mass murdering anti-hero? No.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A Hero killing 1 or 2 people 'because they had no other choice' might be forgiven by the populace based on the facts of the situation. A "Hero" who goes around killing every Hellion he finds is quickly going to have a whole lot of angry mothers fathers sisters brothers daughters sons wives girlfriends nephews nieces grandmas and grandpas lobbying for his arrest based on his actions.
[/ QUOTE ]
You support looking at Heroes' actions as though they were real world. Fair enough. Public opinion on what heroes are, then, becomes largely invalid. As you pointed out, Heroes are licensed by the Government to act. Police officers are given quite a bit more leniency than one or two deaths in the course of their career, and Heroes are participating in even more dangerous events- 'twould stand to reason that Heroes would have a proportionally greater amount leniency, no? I recognize that Police have a bit of an inquiry after each death, and I agree that there would like be some questions asked, investigation done if someone happened to die, but when you consider how dangerous some of the villains in this game are, surely you can concede it's needlessly dangerous to instruct heroes to take them alive, as opposed to stop them using necessary force.
EDIT: Oops. A few comments were posted while I was writing. It seems we will be calming down, then.
Nah, she and I talk about various things as it is. I threw out an example I didn't know would actually hit close to home for her. Pretty sure she knows. 
Then that's different. Basically, my original post was mostly in response to all the posts I've seen on the forums that say "Going Rogue makes no sense! There's no way a Zombie Mastermind, Kheldian, or (insert AT here) could be good/evil. My point was that depending how you roleplay anything can be. I also don't think villains are going to get the hero level up badges. Just their own. I could be wrong.