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A friend of mine came back from a hiatus and got his wife into the game lately. While chatting at work the other day, she made the comment that they "don't do door missions."
Puzzled I asked what she meant. She said they just run AE missions. I believe she's got a 35 Tanker now.
The sad part is I bet she doesn't even know how to navigate the game world AT ALL. I bet if she had to get from Atlas Park to Founder's Falls it would positively blow her mind. So even though they are not PL'ing per se (her leveling has been too slow to call it PL'ing, but faster than what a regular newbie would see) she is missing out entirely on the ACTUAL GAME. He's doing her a disservice IMHO.
So place me on the "anti-PLing" side of the fence. If my friend would just play the regular game with his wife, they could still level fast and she would learn more about the game as they went.
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The sad part is I bet she doesn't even know how to navigate the game world AT ALL. I bet if she had to get from Atlas Park to Founder's Falls it would positively blow her mind. So even though they are not PL'ing per se (her leveling has been too slow to call it PL'ing, but faster than what a regular newbie would see) she is missing out entirely on the ACTUAL GAME. He's doing her a disservice IMHO.
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door missions are no more the "actual game" than anything else you can do.
PvP is "the actual game".
TFs are "the actual game".
AE is "the actual game".
etc etc
the game is the game, no part of it is any more inherently valuable than the rest.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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The sad part is I bet she doesn't even know how to navigate the game world AT ALL. I bet if she had to get from Atlas Park to Founder's Falls it would positively blow her mind. So even though they are not PL'ing per se (her leveling has been too slow to call it PL'ing, but faster than what a regular newbie would see) she is missing out entirely on the ACTUAL GAME. He's doing her a disservice IMHO.
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door missions are no more the "actual game" than anything else you can do.
PvP is "the actual game".
TFs are "the actual game".
AE is "the actual game".
etc etc
the game is the game, no part of it is any more inherently valuable than the rest.
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That's correct. But someone who is new really should experience the different types of things the game has to offer so they could make an informed decision. And I use the word "should" merely as a recommendation.
More and more, the game is becoming like a playground, where you enter and find different things to do. Most of the things involve fighting mobs, so take that with a grain of salt, but there's still a lot of choices you have.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
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That's correct. But someone who is new really should experience the different types of things the game has to offer so they could make an informed decision.
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If the devs want them to start with a certain segment of content they should code the game that way.
Left to their own devices players will follow their impulses, not necessarily to the same destinations preferred by others.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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But... but... but..." Argue all you want, it wouldn't matter if you had ten thousand people lined up behind you agreeing with you. The devs and other managers who run this game aren't stupid. They didn't just fall off the MMORPG truck yesterday.
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Mission architect disagrees with you. The games relatively poor results disagrees with you. The events of recent days disagree with you.
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I have no idea where you are coming from here. Mission Architect is a true innovation that has created an influx of players from other games and not just returning players either. It is possibly one of the greatest things that has come out of MMOs in a LONG time.
I don't think the game has relatively poor results. It is a niche game aimed at a niche market and as such has had good success. The fact that they are now 5 years old and still planning more expansions seems to indicate a success. No they aren't the number one or two game out there for subscribers, but I don't think they ever intended to be. If you want to be number one you don't pick a niche market like superheroes.
I also have no idea what the events of recent days you are referring to are.
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I agree here, and that's one of the reasons I don't like seeing new players powerlevel. If they are just trying to get to Max level as soon as possible and don't get into the arcs or stories then they will likely be dissapionted once they get to 50 or feel that they are done and move on to another game.
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The fix for that is more endgame content
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It only needs a fix if it is broken. I for one am perfectly fine with the idea that 50 is a new beginning for another character. I'm an altaholic though and love making new characters. When a character is max level for me thier story is over. It has reached it's conclusion and there isn't much development left for it.
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That's correct. But someone who is new really should experience the different types of things the game has to offer so they could make an informed decision.
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If the devs want them to start with a certain segment of content they should code the game that way.
Left to their own devices players will follow their impulses, not necessarily to the same destinations preferred by others.
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While that is true, they do make you level a bit before PVP, and you have to engage in PVE to level and get into the PVP zones so technically haven't they done just what you are suggesting?
In the story mentioned I do feel that the husband is cheating the wife's experience. The reasoning being that if the person cannot navigate through the zones then they are at a disadvantage in running the developer introduced content. By doing missions first you are not limited on the knowledge needed for AE or PVP. You are not kneecapping that ability. By only doing AE the husband is effectively making the choice of what content she will experience for her and leaving her at a huge disadvantage if she wanted to try something different. To be a "proper" introduction to the game a person should not show a new player only one kind of content that prevents them from learning about the rest.
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I have no idea where you are coming from here. Mission Architect is a true innovation that has created an influx of players from other games and not just returning players either. It is possibly one of the greatest things that has come out of MMOs in a LONG time.
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Advertising a new boxed set and a bait and switch by the devs had nothing to do with those results ?
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I also have no idea what the events of recent days you are referring to are.
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Talk to people in game about bannings
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I agree here, and that's one of the reasons I don't like seeing new players powerlevel. If they are just trying to get to Max level as soon as possible and don't get into the arcs or stories then they will likely be dissapionted once they get to 50 or feel that they are done and move on to another game.
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The fix for that is more endgame content
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It only needs a fix if it is broken. I for one am perfectly fine with the idea that 50 is a new beginning for another character. I'm an altaholic though and love making new characters. When a character is max level for me thier story is over. It has reached it's conclusion and there isn't much development left for it.
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Yes and for everyone that isnt an altaholic gets to 50 in however long it took and leaves ? More enjoyable endgame content is needed
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I agree here, and that's one of the reasons I don't like seeing new players powerlevel. If they are just trying to get to Max level as soon as possible and don't get into the arcs or stories then they will likely be dissapionted once they get to 50 or feel that they are done and move on to another game.
[/ QUOTE ]
The fix for that is more endgame content
[/ QUOTE ]
It only needs a fix if it is broken. I for one am perfectly fine with the idea that 50 is a new beginning for another character. I'm an altaholic though and love making new characters. When a character is max level for me thier story is over. It has reached it's conclusion and there isn't much development left for it.
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Yes and for everyone that isnt an altaholic gets to 50 in however long it took and leaves ? More enjoyable endgame content is needed
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I would be fine with the developers adding end game content as long as that content did not become the entire focus of the game. As someone that got thoroughly burned out on WoW's "raid 'till your eyes bleed" model I'm a bit skittish of the idea.
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While that is true, they do make you level a bit before PVP, and you have to engage in PVE to level and get into the PVP zones so technically haven't they done just what you are suggesting?
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In the case of PvP, yes.
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To be a "proper" introduction to the game a person should not show a new player only one kind of content that prevents them from learning about the rest.
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The fundamental dishonesty in most of the AE & PL whining is that they somehow PREVENT people from doing something else.
They don't.
The rest of the game is still there- if they WANT to learn how to navigate zones, if they WANT to explore story arcs, that functionality still exists.
If it doesn't seem appealing to them, that isn't the player's fault.
Giving players options means the decision is theirs.
If the devs prefer that players first 'play through' the game's legacy content they should 'insist' via the rules of the game.
The devs proud pre-release statement that we'd be able to level from 1-50 via AE should give pause to those insisting legacy content ought to be the primary focus of incoming players.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I have no idea where you are coming from here. Mission Architect is a true innovation that has created an influx of players from other games and not just returning players either. It is possibly one of the greatest things that has come out of MMOs in a LONG time.
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Advertising a new boxed set and a bait and switch by the devs had nothing to do with those results ?
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I also have no idea what the events of recent days you are referring to are.
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Talk to people in game about bannings
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I don't think the box set had much to do with it no. It was more returning players and word of mouth than anything else.
I have found a few threads while they were still up about the other topic. I understand those comments now and why you are angry.
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I agree here, and that's one of the reasons I don't like seeing new players powerlevel. If they are just trying to get to Max level as soon as possible and don't get into the arcs or stories then they will likely be dissapionted once they get to 50 or feel that they are done and move on to another game.
[/ QUOTE ]
The fix for that is more endgame content
[/ QUOTE ]
It only needs a fix if it is broken. I for one am perfectly fine with the idea that 50 is a new beginning for another character. I'm an altaholic though and love making new characters. When a character is max level for me thier story is over. It has reached it's conclusion and there isn't much development left for it.
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Yes and for everyone that isnt an altaholic gets to 50 in however long it took and leaves ? More enjoyable endgame content is needed
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Alts are the end game. Epic ATs with new story arcs I think supports this conclusion. I understand though that many people don't feel the same way and want to keep playing thier 50s.
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While that is true, they do make you level a bit before PVP, and you have to engage in PVE to level and get into the PVP zones so technically haven't they done just what you are suggesting?
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In the case of PvP, yes.
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To be a "proper" introduction to the game a person should not show a new player only one kind of content that prevents them from learning about the rest.
[/ QUOTE ]
The fundamental dishonesty in most of the AE & PL whining is that they somehow PREVENT people from doing something else.
They don't.
The rest of the game is still there- if they WANT to learn how to navigate zones, if they WANT to explore story arcs, that functionality still exists.
If it doesn't seem appealing to them, that isn't the player's fault.
Giving players options means the decision is theirs.
If the devs prefer that players first 'play through' the game's legacy content they should 'insist' via the rules of the game.
The devs proud pre-release statement that we'd be able to level from 1-50 via AE should give pause to those insisting legacy content ought to be the primary focus of incoming players.
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You are right in general, but this was in regards to one story about a guy and his wife. He is introducing her to the game and is her guide. He is leaving out massive portions of the game to the point that if she wanted to take that character and join another team she would be at a large disadvantage in regards to navigation.
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You are right in general, but this was in regards to one story about a guy and his wife. He is introducing her to the game and is her guide. He is leaving out massive portions of the game to the point that if she wanted to take that character and join another team she would be at a large disadvantage in regards to navigation.
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If you style yourself a guide it would be dishonest to ignore large portions of the game, I agree.
I don't agree with the "large disadvantage" part. The game just isn't that complicated.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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While that is true, they do make you level a bit before PVP, and you have to engage in PVE to level and get into the PVP zones so technically haven't they done just what you are suggesting?
[/ QUOTE ]
In the case of PvP, yes.
[ QUOTE ]
To be a "proper" introduction to the game a person should not show a new player only one kind of content that prevents them from learning about the rest.
[/ QUOTE ]
The fundamental dishonesty in most of the AE & PL whining is that they somehow PREVENT people from doing something else.
They don't.
The rest of the game is still there- if they WANT to learn how to navigate zones, if they WANT to explore story arcs, that functionality still exists.
If it doesn't seem appealing to them, that isn't the player's fault.
Giving players options means the decision is theirs.
If the devs prefer that players first 'play through' the game's legacy content they should 'insist' via the rules of the game.
The devs proud pre-release statement that we'd be able to level from 1-50 via AE should give pause to those insisting legacy content ought to be the primary focus of incoming players.
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You are right in general, but this was in regards to one story about a guy and his wife. He is introducing her to the game and is her guide. He is leaving out massive portions of the game to the point that if she wanted to take that character and join another team she would be at a large disadvantage in regards to navigation.
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Does she not have a map?!! How did all of us learn how to get around when new?! We used our maps and waypoints. This is not rocket science, people.
Well we as veterans don't consider it complicated.
But, it'd be hard to make that call if all you've seen is the bit of AP between the AE building and Ms. Liberty.
Personally? if I had a friend show interest in the game, I'd street sweep a heck of a lot. Then at least we'd move from zone to zone as the levels got higher, and end up exploring things as we progressed.
But apparently street sweeping is frowned upon, not because it's not farming, but that it's "inefficient" farming, or something...
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
as far as MMO's go altogether, it's pretty basic as far as the controls and such. I have been playing for only a month, and in the first couple of hours figured out the map nav, location legend, again, pretty basic. Personally I like pl'ing, simply because this way I can try out all these awesome AT's and powers without having to kill 700 snakes over and over again. After only a month I have 6 toons, all at level 30, because the first one I went through the content with, but man, if I have to kill al those snakes again I'm going to kick Kalinda in the [censored] and tell her to kill her own damn snakes. =P But now I've tried out a bunch of AT's, found a AT that works well with my playing style, and I love this game, partially because I don't have to grind through the snake-filled levels again and again. The ppl I talk with in game and on these boards are knowledgeable, friendly, and helpful, and I am PUMPED for the vet awards. WAY better than aoc or wow imo. Anyway, pl'ing does have it's ups I think.
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But apparently street sweeping is frowned upon, not because it's not farming, but that it's "inefficient" farming, or something...
[/ QUOTE ] I just find it boring for the most part. I feel that way about your standard office or cave mission too. I much prefer content like Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, RWZ, etc compared to the rest of the stuff because of the sometimes unique environments and the generally better writing.
I really don't care if someone PLs. I just want people I team with to be able to effectively play.
Sometimes all it takes is one clueless player to ruin the experience for everyone.
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But apparently street sweeping is frowned upon, not because it's not farming, but that it's "inefficient" farming, or something...
[/ QUOTE ] I just find it boring for the most part. I feel that way about your standard office or cave mission too. I much prefer content like Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, RWZ, etc compared to the rest of the stuff because of the sometimes unique environments and the generally better writing.
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I'm in agreement there. Some zones are better than others.
But, that just means we have to get a "Fill Up War Witch's Inbox" campaign going to have her and her team revamp the existing zones. 
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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I really don't care if someone PLs. I just want people I team with to be able to effectively play.
[/ QUOTE ] Probably the most reasonable answer yet.
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But apparently street sweeping is frowned upon, not because it's not farming, but that it's "inefficient" farming, or something...
[/ QUOTE ] I just find it boring for the most part. I feel that way about your standard office or cave mission too. I much prefer content like Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, RWZ, etc compared to the rest of the stuff because of the sometimes unique environments and the generally better writing.
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I'm in agreement there. Some zones are better than others.
But, that just means we have to get a "Fill Up War Witch's Inbox" campaign going to have her and her team revamp the existing zones.
[/ QUOTE ] Agreed. What I would really like to see is some of the story arcs where you fight faction leaders(Like Countess Crey) get new maps and other work on the missions.
perhaps different-colored interiors of the office buildings too? I'm sure that when they built the city, they didn't say "let's make ALL the walls beige, ALL the handrails red, and ALL the carpets red to match all the handrails, in EVERY building." lol.
I look at it like this.....
How a player spends his time in-game is up to him. As long as there's no exploiting or harassment or griefing or something else against the EULA, it's their money.
With that in mind, whether or not a new player should powerlevel, I do have opinions on. If a brand new player came to me and said "I see people powerleveling all the time and I heard you can advance really quickly doing it. Should I do it?", I'd most likely say "no", but I'd first ask them "are you having fun right now?"
If they said "no" or "not really", I'd probably ask them what they consider isn't fun, and if it was that they thought it was too slow or boring, I'd tell them to go ahead and try powerleveling, they may find enjoyment then.
If they said "Yes", then I'd tell them they should keep playing like they are and not to worry about powerleveling. While people's definition of "fun" may vary, if they're having fun, then their goals are already met and there's no need to change anything.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens