We have no details other than what was given, however from what was mentioned and shown:
- Adventuring in the Praetorian Earth (and if you don't know what that is, heroside, 40-50, Tina Mcintyre and Maria Jenkins.)
- "Side switching" / Moral compass - we don't have all the details though.
Sounds a lot like the console rpg Fable.
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We have no details other than what was given, however from what was mentioned and shown:
- Adventuring in the Praetorian Earth (and if you don't know what that is, heroside, 40-50, Tina Mcintyre and Maria Jenkins.)
- "Side switching" / Moral compass - we don't have all the details though.
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So basically it would be like betraying in EQ2? Whats the point of that other than the let heroes have villain ATs and villains have hero ATs? In EQ2 you actually become the opposing counterpart class, summoners become necromancers etc... Wouldn't it just be easier to give both sides the same ATs?
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So basically it would be like betraying in EQ2? Whats the point of that other than the let heroes have villain ATs and villains have hero ATs? In EQ2 you actually become the opposing counterpart class, summoners become necromancers etc... Wouldn't it just be easier to give both sides the same ATs?
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Yes, but this also give you the option of going back and forth. so for instance, you have been leveling a hero, and you find out a real life friend has a villain around the same level on the same server, you can change to a villiain or they can change to a hero.
Being able to play with friend regardless of what they play seems to be a theme with this game. with the sidekick/exemplar system ect.
Not to mention it brings up good rp scenarios for ppl that are so inclined. Also it fits in with the theme of the content of the preatorian earth.
To the OP: Visit this, for all the information we have so far.
And:
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Sounds a lot like the console rpg Fable.
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I think that is a fair comparison from what we know.
I think this is yet another great move by NCSoft. I'm all for it.
So we could potentially have MMs running around paragon city. wonderful!
Well aside from the obvious roleplaying issues, I guess there is an advantage to this. I know that my dad plays heroes and I play villains. he would be happy to hear that we can actually play together.
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I think this is yet another great move by NCSoft. I'm all for it.
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Personally, I don't think that putting in MA was a 'great move' at all, but that is just my personal opinion. I think it detracts from the actual gameplay.
So yea, switching sides has its advantages, but sort of ruins roleplaying gameplay in a way. I mean, that essentially means you can create whatever you want and have them be villains OR heroes. Now you can have MM heroes and villainous PBs.... idk, it just sounds 'off' to me. Limitations are good, and I think villains should stay in the Rogue Isles, and Heroes should stay in Paragon.
Besides side switching, Praetoria should be a ton of new zones, not just one, if we go by the experience of our only previous expansion. In the leaked August survey (which is now looking pretty damn accurate) it also mentioned a new costume creator that will allow power color customization, and a ton of new missions that will be used when characters want to change their moral compass. May involve a new Spy class, too.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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So yea, switching sides has its advantages, but sort of ruins roleplaying gameplay in a way.
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Quite a few of the RPers actually seem quite pleased by the idea. Their undercover agents "can go back home" now, their mercenaries can work both sides, their split personality supers can flip back and forth, etc.
We aren't being forced to switch; so if switching sides violates your particular RP, don't switch sides.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I am still surprised some people find the side switching such an odd thing. It has been done in comics for YEARS. And this IS a comic inspired game. Magneto has been both a nemesis AND a teacher to the X-Men. Sabretooth has fought on both sides. Juggernaut was in Excaliber for a while... It happens all the time. So I say bring it ON!
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Limitations are good, and I think villains should stay in the Rogue Isles, and Heroes should stay in Paragon.
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Which would make it impossible to create a character in the "moral gray area" that exists in both real life and in comic books, movies, TV, and so on. Take the Punisher or Deadpool. I wouldn't call either one of them a hero. But they aren't villains either. They do what they do for their own reasons. The Punisher felt that the justice system wasn't enough to punish criminals, so he kills them rather than allow them to continue commiting crimes. Deadpool will do almost anything for money, but he does have a line he won't cross, he won't kill a child, and generally only accepts jobs to kill people he feels deserve it, or that have wronged others. He usually doesn't kill just for the sake of killing. So he does have his own set of morals about what he does.
There are literally THOUSANDS of characters in pop culture and even in classic literature that don't fit perfectly into the description of "good" or "evil". Captain Ahab, Dorian Grey, Vic (from the TV show The Shield), Darkman, and so many more I could type for an hour and still not list them all. Telling us "You are a good guy or a bad guy, there is only black and white" is A) inhibitive of creativity, and B) not at all a realistic statement.
My main character has a vendetta against Crey. He will do whatever he has to do to bring them down, and has no qualms about killing if it is necessary to achieve his goals. Since Crey is an evil organization he is technically a hero by opposing them. But his methods would make him a villain in the eyes of any real world law.
My main villain is doing what he does because he would die if he didn't. He is an alternate reality version of my main hero. He needs specific nanomachines for his blood that his body will not reject. The only place he can get them is from my hero's body because their DNA is identical. So, if he wants to survive he has no choice but to murder the hero and take his blood. He is a criminal by necessity rather than choice.
An "anti-hero" is generally defined as someone who does the right thing for the wrong reasons. Their motives may be suspect, but they are still helping people. A superhero who rescues people from a burning building because he wants the fame and recognition would be an anti-hero. His motives are selfish, but the result of them is people's lives were saved.
The opposite is also true, the ones that do the wrong thing for the right reason are also anti-heroes. The man who kills one person to save a hundred is an example of that. Yes, people are still alive because of his actions, but that doesn't change the fact that he is still a murderer himself.
Looking at the world in black and white may be easier, but it is also very naive. With Going Rogue we are being given the option to tread that middle ground in our path through the game.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Besides what Claws said, which is totally true, it makes sense for us to have characters who can change sides.
"[V]illains should stay in the Rogue Isles, and Heroes should stay in Paragon." Why? No heroes should ever be anything but good, and no villain should ever be anything but bad? No villain ever started off as a hero but collapsed into badness? No hero is an ex-villain?
I have characters who fit these molds. One of my MMs used to work for a government organization as an assassin until circumstances forced her to flee to the Isles. She's a hero turned bad. Without the expansion, all I can do is pretend. Further, the "limitations" you're proposing don't actually prevent people from pretending to do it, only the ability to actually do it. It stops me from playing a Controller in the Isles. It doesn't stop me from playing a hero in the Isles.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Besides what Claws said, which is totally true, it makes sense for us to have characters who can change sides.
"[V]illains should stay in the Rogue Isles, and Heroes should stay in Paragon." Why? No heroes should ever be anything but good, and no villain should ever be anything but bad? No villain ever started off as a hero but collapsed into badness? No hero is an ex-villain?
I have characters who fit these molds. One of my MMs used to work for a government organization as an assassin until circumstances forced her to flee to the Isles. She's a hero turned bad. Without the expansion, all I can do is pretend. Further, the "limitations" you're proposing don't actually prevent people from pretending to do it, only the ability to actually do it. It stops me from playing a Controller in the Isles. It doesn't stop me from playing a hero in the Isles.
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This.
If my villains are going to Paragon, it is because they have had a change of heart, and have decided to try to walk the road of angels. If my heroes go to the Rogue Isles, it is because they have decided that high risk for low pay makes for a crummy job. They know how the system works now, and they think they can beat it.
And then there are the ones that are truly in the middle, neither good nor evil. The Houndsman has done terrible things for his beloved U S of A, but when an op went pear shaped, they disavowed knowledge of him and his crew. Now he works for the highest bidder. The Bocor has been corrupted by the power that he wields. He still wants to do good for his community, but his definition of "acceptable losses" has gotten broader over time. 3 Chop Charlie and Lady Warhawk are punisher type vigilantes. They have no respect for the law because the law protects the criminals rather than the victims.
I might make the occasional "double agent," but I see myself doing more with true redemption or fall from grace stories.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
I wonder if a Necro Mastermind goes Blue then the Zombies will be refitted so you get the impression the MM had permission to bring them back - or that they're so evil it's fitting.
Thugs can work - Reformed Freakshow exist.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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So yea, switching sides has its advantages, but sort of ruins roleplaying gameplay in a way. I mean, that essentially means you can create whatever you want and have them be villains OR heroes. Now you can have MM heroes and villainous PBs.... idk, it just sounds 'off' to me. Limitations are good, and I think villains should stay in the Rogue Isles, and Heroes should stay in Paragon.
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If that's the way you feel, you are free to not purchase the expansion and continue to role play however you want to.
For many of us however, switching sides is something that provides an even greater role playing tool. We will now be able to actually play through our character's angst as they fall from grace or desperately try to prove themselves worthy of redemption, not just write it as part of their backstory.
well if you think of this it is like the tv show el tigre or the game shadow the hedgehog. Think of the thug mm, they could be a government agent capturing the thugs and sending them through a reform program by leading them as a mm.
P.S. As soon as this comes out I'm bringing a robot/ff MM to paragon city.
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I wonder if a Necro Mastermind goes Blue then the Zombies will be refitted so you get the impression the MM had permission to bring them back - or that they're so evil it's fitting.
Thugs can work - Reformed Freakshow exist.
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Well, my main zombie MM is actually a government chemist who worked with the Army during the Vietnam war developing drugs to make super soldiers. Her zombies are the fallen soldiers that had been administered the drugs. They are fighting to find out the truth of the Army program they were involved in and to avenge their deaths. Such a path doesn't actually make her or her zombies villains, but that was the only choice I had when I created her.
also, I'm very interested in the examples of characters that NCsoft had in their press release.
Going Rogue will also introduce two primary new fictional characters representative of this alignment shift in the game's lore: Maelstrom, a pistol-wielding hero gone rogue, and Desdemona, a demon-summoning villain who has been redeemed.
Might this finally be the Dual-Pistol and Demon summoning powersets?
Undoubtedly. You can see them in the trailer.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Undoubtedly. You can see them in the trailer.
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I saw pistols, but were there Demons?
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Undoubtedly. You can see them in the trailer.
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I saw pistols, but were there Demons?
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I meant the characters - they don't have her actually summoning demons, although fibroblasts look to be in the powerset for attacks.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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So yea, switching sides has its advantages, but sort of ruins roleplaying gameplay in a way.
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Quite a few of the RPers actually seem quite pleased by the idea. Their undercover agents "can go back home" now, their mercenaries can work both sides, their split personality supers can flip back and forth, etc.
We aren't being forced to switch; so if switching sides violates your particular RP, don't switch sides.
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Thats true. Basically, it can potentially improve roleplaying, or can ruin it based on how it is used. Being able to switch back and forth how you please kind of defeats the purpose of selecting a side.
So yea, I'll probably make a MM and play it as a hero. But now the question is this; if you hit 50, do you gain the VEATs based off of what AT you are, or what side of the morality compass you are playing on?
Or do they just revamp the epic ATs as a perk for people who buy the expansion? "Congratulations on level fifty. Here's four new ATs to play with, thanks for hanging in there."
Personally, I'm hoping the Epic ATs aren't excluded from the side switching - VEATS are just really well trained soldiers, so I don't see why they couldn't have a change of heart.
For Kheldians, Warshades were already evil once. And maybe some Peacebringers think that their race isn't going far enough to wipe out the scourge of the Nictus, or resent the alliance with the Warshades, or they've been to Ouroboros and the knowledge that their entire race may be on the edge of annihilation has driven them insane.
Also, Peacebringers are still bonded with a human host, and would be strongly influenced by them. So you can have PBs who, being unfamiliar with human thought processes, were already bonded before it became clear that they'd picked a nutter. Maybe the PB sticks around to try to heal them, maybe their madness is contagious. Plus you have all the events that could normally inspire a hero to go darkside - friends and family killed in a crossfire with "the good guys," finding out about some evil plot that the authorities can't, or won't deal with (like that Crey are mostly a bunch of evil scum who kidnap, blackmail, or flat out murder anyone who gets in their way, and corrupt officials protect them.)
And then there's all the "Evil Kirk" options - maybe the Kheldian is from an alternate reality where Peacebringers are actually heartless tyrants, bringing "peace" to other races by conquering them and crushing anything anything that could lead to disorder.
Well I think that if the HEAT and VEAT are not transferable that I was thinking they could make new Epics one for getting a hero AT to lvl 50 on villainous content and vice versa. So there are options.
Ok, so what exactly is the point of City of Heroes going rogue? the name sounds really cool, but I have NO idea what makes the expansion what it is. Are they letting us play villains in Paragon City now? Are they allowing us to play heroes in the Rogue Isles? I don't know! Is anybody able to answer my questions?
What exactly IS the Going Rogue expansion going to feature (just in general)?