Banned arc: clarification needed


Aisynia

 

Posted

The devs have absolutely nothing to do with anything that is banned in game. The GMs and customer service get to make those decisions. At one point a dev (I think it was BaB) mentioned that if he were to ban a player while in game he could actually get in trouble for it no matter what the offense.

The correct procedure for this is to open a customer service ticket through your main account. The arc will eventually be reviewed by somebody (and it may be quite a while) and you will get a response telling you if it can be republished with changes or if the whole theme makes it unsuitable. Or perhaps it will even be decided that it wasn't offensive and it will be marked as being ban proof unless you edit it further.


Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!

 

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I would send it to Niviene. This is a customer service kind of issue, not a developer issue.

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Thanks for the advice, I just sent in my letter.


VIRTUE: Ms Pris - 50 scrapper, Brai Master - 50 tank, Candi Pain - 50 scrapper
VICTORY: Little Bertha - 50 blaster

 

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Like I said, I knew the story was not for everybody, and am not really surprised that some people complained. But if the Lesbian Hellions joke can go on for several months on these boards, I didn't figure that a story depicting Lesbian Hellions would be "inappropriate" in the MA.

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Heraclea, you're no fool. I've seen much of your work here and I played this arc. You HAD to know that there are numbskulls who play this game that subtlety is a curse word to. That arc was awesome (I 5-starred it on both my accounts) but I knew the Puritans among us would scream, moan, and gnash their teeth.

My only problem with "The New MA Order" is the lack of parameters. If they just came out and said "All arcs must be able to pass 1950s era censors", that would be one thing. But using nebulous definitions of 'farming' and 'inappropriate' isn't going to turn out well.

I hope this works out for you. I would suggest changing the arc to be more along the lines of a watered down National Lampoon. That would probably be the safest way to go about it. Having mature themes is bad apparently. I'll let you guess the possible whys.

I have 6 arcs queued up that I won't publish (unless I'm playing them with friends) for this very reason. I think the story focused ones are too Bret Easton Ellis/Andrew Vachss/Frank Miller for public consumption.


@Remianen / @Remianen Too

Sig by RPVisions

 

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However I did think that the story could have been offensive to lots of people. It wasn't over the top enough to be immediately identifiable as parody.

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Well, if this is true, perhaps it's not worth the trouble.

I did have a response waiting for me this afternoon, though. It appears that the story was "inappropriate content that involved going out to defeat enemies because of their sexual orientation."

Seen through that lens, obviously I never would have made it myself. The fact that they're also Hellions scheming to take over the city apparently makes no difference. Much less, that it was based on forum lore - not everyone is familiar with it and no one can be expected to know it.

I may send a note to Niviene about this. Not sure what else can be done, except perhaps for one of the devs to notice it and like it. I apparently still can unpublish it, but will leave it sitting until I have something to replace it, in the odd chance that someone will take notice and achieve a happier ending. I thought about importing one of my old Test stories there, but all of those are longer and have playability issues for squishies.

And there is a point that is larger than my silly little story. The procedure set forth by Positron apparently requires the writer to put one of his slots at hazard if they seek review of complained-about arcs by the announced procedure for having them reviewed. This seems unfair, at least to authors who are not creating exploit missions but trying in good faith to create the sort of material that Positron seems to want.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

This makes me sad. I had a story I was working on involving, lets say, a non-traditional love triangle, and was wavering on how obvious to make it. Apparently I'll have to just leave it open ended and not actually say anything. Which I guess works, just kinda limits my options a bit.


-Hesh

38 FF/Sonic Def
35 Ill/Storm
35 DM/Regen
1 pan of fresh brownies/gallon of milk

 

Posted

Comics had their fun police for years and years.

CoX got our version with the MA


 

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Ok, so lesbians are ok, but beating them up is not, even if they're evil lesbians? Because by saying some lesbians are evil, you are obviously implying that all lesbians are evil. Got it....I think.

Sarcasm doesn't always translate I guess. At least we're still allowed to say "Lesbian."


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

think 'CCA'

comics code authority.


 

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think 'CCA'

comics code authority.

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* Crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals.
* If crime is depicted it shall be as a sordid and unpleasant activity.
* Criminals shall not be presented so as to be rendered glamorous or to occupy a position which creates a desire for emulation.
* In every instance good shall triumph over evil and the criminal punished for his misdeeds.
* Scenes of excessive violence shall be prohibited. Scenes of brutal torture, excessive and unnecessary knife and gunplay, physical agony, gory and gruesome crime shall be eliminated.
* No comic magazine shall use the word horror or terror in its title.
* All scenes of horror, excessive bloodshed, gory or gruesome crimes, depravity, lust, sadism, masochism shall not be permitted.
* All lurid, unsavory, gruesome illustrations shall be eliminated.
* Inclusion of stories dealing with evil shall be used or shall be published only where the intent is to illustrate a moral issue and in no case shall evil be presented alluringly, nor so as to injure the sensibilities of the reader.
* Scenes dealing with, or instruments associated with walking dead, torture, vampires and vampirism, ghouls, cannibalism, and werewolfism are prohibited.
* Profanity, obscenity, smut, vulgarity, or words or symbols which have acquired undesirable meanings are forbidden.
* Nudity in any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure.
* Suggestive and salacious illustration or suggestive posture is unacceptable.
* Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any physical qualities.
* Illicit sex relations are neither to be hinted at nor portrayed. Violent love scenes as well as sexual abnormalities are unacceptable.
* Seduction and [censored] shall never be shown or suggested.
* Sex perversion or any inference to same is strictly forbidden.
* Nudity with meretricious purpose and salacious postures shall not be permitted in the advertising of any product; clothed figures shall never be presented in such a way as to be offensive or contrary to good taste or morals.

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Ah, the good old days. When homosexuality was considered a mental disorder.

So was not wanting to bear children.

Is the cynicism too thick?


 

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It appears that the story was "inappropriate content that involved going out to defeat enemies because of their sexual orientation."

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I can understand why they'd want to avoid the hassle that such social/political/religious themes would create. You could (for instance) substitute "Christian" for "Lesbian" and open up an entirely different can of worms. Not to mention what happens when you start combining social/political/religious buzz words into "Chistian Lesbian Nazis" or some such. So then it takes hardly any effort to create something (even a title) that's offensive to most anyone.


 

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I know the joke and all, and I'm sad that this is the case in the US, but the political correctness militias won quite a while ago and continue to rule the country sadly.

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No mate, I think the bankers have that all covered.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

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And there is a point that is larger than my silly little story. The procedure set forth by Positron apparently requires the writer to put one of his slots at hazard if they seek review of complained-about arcs by the announced procedure for having them reviewed. This seems unfair, at least to authors who are not creating exploit missions but trying in good faith to create the sort of material that Positron seems to want.

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This part seems worth pursuing even if the arc in question never gets the all-clear. You're right, it does seem to be punishing the well-intentioned.


And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines

 

Posted

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I can understand why they'd want to avoid the hassle that such social/political/religious themes would create. You could (for instance) substitute "Christian" for "Lesbian" and open up an entirely different can of worms. Not to mention what happens when you start combining social/political/religious buzz words into "Chistian Lesbian Nazis" or some such. So then it takes hardly any effort to create something (even a title) that's offensive to most anyone.

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Agreed, the only way to avoid the political headache that comes with these sort of things is to ban them universally.

If they fail to ban ones that offend players then they've offended a part of their player base unnecessarily.

If they ban only certain ones then they run the risk of being perceived as making political or moral statements which could also offend parts of the player base.


 

Posted

About 3 years or so ago, my husband made a character he named Shirtless Lass. Now, costume-wise, she was wearing the "sporty top" in black on pinkish skin. She was not actually shirtless in the topless sense. I told him not to name her that, but he persisted. 8 levels later, he was stuck in a mission and the GM who came decided his name was inappropriate, and generic'd it.

While my husband was upset, he sent in the requested 3 "better" names, and the character's name was changed.

Meanwhile, I think Johnny NoPants is still around.

So, whatever the GMs decide, no matter how inconsistent or seemingly unfair, is what you have to do.


Live arcs: 517377 and 517381
Virtue: Quickshot. Swiftwind. Aliuneidis. Gizmodeus. Dasher. Fiver. Inuit Acer. Daniel Darke. Cerebral Flame. El Halcon.
Intel Core2Duo 2.4 Ghz 4 GB RAM**NVIDIA Geforce 9600 GT set to 1280 x 1024**Windows Vista 32 bit

 

Posted

This is just sad.


 

Posted

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About 3 years or so ago, my husband made a character he named Shirtless Lass. Now, costume-wise, she was wearing the "sporty top" in black on pinkish skin. She was not actually shirtless in the topless sense. I told him not to name her that, but he persisted. 8 levels later, he was stuck in a mission and the GM who came decided his name was inappropriate, and generic'd it.

While my husband was upset, he sent in the requested 3 "better" names, and the character's name was changed.

Meanwhile, I think Johnny NoPants is still around.

So, whatever the GMs decide, no matter how inconsistent or seemingly unfair, is what you have to do.

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Hmmmm. Wonder if you could create a character without a head and call her Topless Lass.

(Favorite headline of all time came from the NY POST: "Headless corpse found in Topless Bar." No joke.)


 

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Now, costume-wise, she was wearing the "sporty top" in black on pinkish skin. She was not actually shirtless in the topless sense.

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That would be my suggestion for suggestive material: try to find a creative way to add it that's visual, or otherwise part of the game environment.


 

Posted

What it comes down to is that it's a point of contention on the forefront of the equal rights movement.

NCsoft exists to make money.

There's no money in a civil rights battle.


 

Posted

The devs and mods have in the past shown themselves to be more progressive than one might expect from a lot of other MMOs, even helping to promote events sponsored by gay/lesbian SGs (and, for that matter, removing the word "gay" from the forum's censor filter).

Not having played Heraclea's arc, I couldn't say whether it crossed a line or could reasonably have been construed as offensive to any group, but I don't think it's fair to depict the Powers That Be as soulless profiteers. If they cared more about making a buck than maintaining a quality game and in-game community, I'm sure they'd be doing things differently.

That said, I hope Heraclea's arc is restored, even if it might require a few edits in order to clarify that her story's intent is in no way malicious or defamatory.


 

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There's a world of difference between supporting a civil rights movement and putting your profits on the line for a cause.


 

Posted

Reminds me of when, in the Invisibles, they are debugging the team and Lord Fanny (a transgender character) is critiqued that "the transvestite, far from being a rebellious or transgressive figure, actually serves the status quo by validating stereotypes of femininity".

i.e. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's going to be very hard to portray your lesbian hellions without offending both sides, especially if you want to intermix a dose of humor. I never played the arc, so these are just my thoughts from reading the thread. In the end, the MA venue is too narrow to say meaningful.

Still, if you took a heroic approach with less humor, then I doubt you would run into too much trouble.


Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6

 

Posted

Hmmm. Now I'm wondering if I'm crossing the line by having a villain who is in love with her brother...


 

Posted

It was probably the subject matter.

Keep in mind that one server's culture may be very tolerant, but another's may not. MA arcs, being cross-server, can and will be played by anyone from any server... giving people that much more chances of "OMG you have to see what someone published!" (voiced with both shock and puerile enthusiasm)



"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."

 

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There's a world of difference between supporting a civil rights movement and putting your profits on the line for a cause.

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And yet NCI has decided to take sides.

Good thing it's all about profits, especially since there's no risk whatsoever of NCI facing any sort of backlash from further questionable bannings.


 

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To be fair that arc did have a fair bit of suggestive content that was perhaps borderline for a T rated game. I didn't think it crossed the line, but I can see where the complainers are coming from.

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Ever done the State's TF? Aeon Mission with the 4 Patron sidekicks. I wont ruin it for those that havent, but one of the AV's dialog ventures pretty deep in BDSM-land. And thats developer content. If the dev's can go that far, players should be given the same level of latitude.

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And then there is also Dominatrix. One only needs to read her bio and see the theme involved in her...NPCs...