Banned arc: clarification needed

Post deleted by Moderator 08

Post deleted by Moderator 08

[ QUOTE ]
Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very, very harsh way to put it and opening can of worms is not something I desire to do...
...but in this case I have to agree.

While I am not that "glad" that people get their arcs banned, it doesn't make me jump around and go "Woah! Hot crap Dave, they got their arcs banned!"

However,I feel that everything has it's time and place and MMO, no matter how lovely the people you play with are, is not exactly great for voicing these kind of things.

Post deleted by Moderator 08

Arcs that will likely get banned:

Any arc where you are beating up a minority only, whether it be lesbians, a certain race (gee..the devs violate that with both the Tsoo and the banished pantheon... go figure) or a certain social subgroup (Is neonazi-bashing just as bad as what the neonazis do? That's one of the reasons the fifth column got pulled in the first place.)

Arcs about certain politically taboo or hot subjects. (Hunting down Iraqi terrorists or employees of an abortion-legal clinic)

Arcs involving child abuse, sexual abuse, Misogyny (although apparently misandry is perfectly alright as evidenced by the carnival. I guess some genders are more equal than others)

Arcs involving, torture, [censored] (of any gender) necrophilia, or any deviant behavior or crimes more serious than a willingness to kill(In the abstract) and steal stuff.

Any arcs which, through storyline or even misinterpretation of available information, might hint at this sort of behavior.

so, when are the carnies(misandry), vahzilok(Torture), Tsoo(racial profiling), and banished pantheon(Racial and religious profiling) enemy groups getting removed from the game?

[ QUOTE ]
This is not some exploit farm mission; it's a story that some players didn't like. As far as I can tell, there's nothing in it that violates the ToS. There is no explicit sex. Some thought it was "gay-bashing", when in fact it is making fun of anti-gay propaganda, and the whole "recruiting" business. Some people with this complaint might not have played far enough into it to see that. Some may not have grasped from the title that you'd be fighting Lesbian Hellions in the arc.

Other complaints were obviously meritless, like the one who claimed that "children" should be shielded from the mention of lesbians and gays. If this is the case, not only my story but a large number of super groups on my home server (Victory) are in danger.

[/ QUOTE ]

Humor is always very hard to pull off well. Doing it with such a 'hot-button' type of topic is even harder. Most everybody has some topic in which they cannot find any humor in it at all. You happened to pick one in which it appears there are many people in that category who play this game. Personally, I think you should give yourself a pat on the back for adding more to the discussion about the types of stories which are acceptable in the MA.

To account for the difference between what can be said on the forums and in the MA, I'd chalk that more up to community reps (looking at you Mod8) being more open to controversy than those who monitor the MA.

Thing is even if her story had been not humorous at all, it never should have been pulled away. It is a STORY. It does not tie to the reality. It is purely entertainment.

In the real world they are multiple books you would never like to hear about and yet they still exist and they can be read by those willing people. No one is FORCED to take part in a story arc they do not like. You do not like Westin Phipps? Then you stay away from him. But the contact does not vanish. If you change your mind or if other people actually like him then they can do his bidding.

Censoring story arcs like the one OP created is going way too far in the " It is hainous propaganda! " logic and like Frostweaver said, we might then as well remove half the stories and enemy groups from the game.

So what would be left? Bland stories only involving punching things, stealing things and abducting people for petty reasons.

Might as well turn most missions into "Get a Neural Scrambler" and turn every enemies into sexless, raceless, ageless, brainless unoriginal grey shadows.

When you read Stephen King books, Marquis de Sade books, Tolstoi books or whatever, the author takes you into whatever story HE decided to write about. If you do not like the book then you close it. Thats it! Censoring it is simply stupid.

The GMs didn't like the book. They closed it.

You were living in a dream world if you thought some arcs might not be pulled by what a GM determines as "objectionable content". And also that there might be some disagreement as to what that is, but the decision is only in their hands, so that's often moot (at least there's an appeals procedure that actually HAS restored arcs that were complained about).

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very disappointed that this arc was banned. I thought it was very clever and no more sexual than normal CoX content is violent. But of course, violence is OK and sex is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This.

I liked the arc and found it enjoyable. What I was expecting wasn't what I got and I found myself smiling at the end. I'm crossing my fingers for ya Herc

Some prude probably *gasped* at the term "Lesbian", and ASSUMED there would be hot naughty babes, wearing tiny pieces of lycra, rubbing oil all over each other and having a play pillow fight, along with a jelly wrestling match.

Then that player probably got aroused, and, subsequently embarrassed themselves, and got all paranoid that another player could have an affect on them (all of this from reading the word "LESBIAN").

OR

The prude probably shuddered at the thought of <insert name of someone they care about in game> experiencing this fantasy.

Or maybe its just some nerd, who is vindictive, and madly trying to cull content from the AE list, in order to prop their own arc further up the list.

*edit -- text added here* My point is, the person that reported it probably did not even play your arc nor learn anything about it. I honestly would not be surprised that they saw the term "lesbian" in the title & reported it, the same as they would have reported content with "farm" in the title (when it would have been a parody about farms, such as the farm parody my friend made full of spotty moo cows, in the outdoor croatoa map. It was quite good actually. Shame though).

A story that involves a political hot button (such as gay rights) will get banned because it involves such a sensitive issue.

Its not about whether the arc is PC or contains sexual content or anything else. I'd bet a billion inf that any arc which involved any other such close-to-the-heart moral/political issue (e.g. abortion ), whether for or against, would get banned for the same reason.

Is it possible it was more copyright infringement? after all there's the novel Monstrous Regiment about recruiting er... gender ambiguous soldiers... I do not think it probably violated that either, but maybe between the two issues they figured it came too close to two lines to be given benefit of doubt?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, the original intent was not to evangelize for a political opinion, only to play with the forums theme of Lesbian Hellions. Politics only appeared on the scene when I was forced into explaining why this story was not in fact some kind of attempt to stir up hate for lesbians or anybody else.

I don't think that serious themes are off limits in MA, either. Tongue in cheek humor is more my shtick, but "Who is Kidnapping the World's Great Philosophers" has a serious as well as a funny side.

[/ QUOTE ]

Problem is most folks don't visit the forums. So for them it DID turn into an evangelism of a political opinion. In fact I visit the forums EVERY DAY, for the last 2+ years and I just heard of the joke by reading this thread.

That is the danger of basing a story off an in-game forum joke. There is not way (even for those who visit the forums regularly) to know if someone has heard the joke or not.

From a MA creating issue (let's leave the who whether it's offensive or not or political evangelism or not), I would 1 star most arcs that do that. I should NOT have to be in on an in-forum or out-of game joke to "get" your arc. I would consider that bad mission creation no matter the topic.

EDIT: Put another way, imagine if you had to know about a certain rare story or in-game joke to get the plot of a movie you went to see? You can't tell me you would think highly of such a film.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very, very harsh way to put it and opening can of worms is not something I desire to do...
...but in this case I have to agree.

While I am not that "glad" that people get their arcs banned, it doesn't make me jump around and go "Woah! Hot crap Dave, they got their arcs banned!"

However,I feel that everything has it's time and place and MMO, no matter how lovely the people you play with are, is not exactly great for voicing these kind of things.

[/ QUOTE ]

As an aside, I laugh at the whole freedom of speech thing being thrown around.

There is no freedom of speech or expression within privately owned entities.

The Boys Scouts of America cases (however unfortunate) shows that.

[ QUOTE ]
Arcs that will likely get banned:

Any arc where you are beating up a minority only, whether it be lesbians, a certain race (gee..the devs violate that with both the Tsoo and the banished pantheon... go figure) or a certain social subgroup (Is neonazi-bashing just as bad as what the neonazis do? That's one of the reasons the fifth column got pulled in the first place.)

Arcs about certain politically taboo or hot subjects. (Hunting down Iraqi terrorists or employees of an abortion-legal clinic)

Arcs involving child abuse, sexual abuse, Misogyny (although apparently misandry is perfectly alright as evidenced by the carnival. I guess some genders are more equal than others)

Arcs involving, torture, [censored] (of any gender) necrophilia, or any deviant behavior or crimes more serious than a willingness to kill(In the abstract) and steal stuff.

Any arcs which, through storyline or even misinterpretation of available information, might hint at this sort of behavior.

so, when are the carnies(misandry), vahzilok(Torture), Tsoo(racial profiling), and banished pantheon(Racial and religious profiling) enemy groups getting removed from the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Clever. Very clever.

[ QUOTE ]


Stupid americans teach their kids to handle a gun at 5 but you can be sure they would blindfold them before they get to see a nipple.



[/ QUOTE ]

Preach it!!

[ QUOTE ]
Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]

The MA wasn't added to satirize political beliefs. If the arc was a thread on these forums, it would've gotten locked. I'm not surprised it was banned, and I certainly hope that the customer service continue to crack down on using a game to spread political messages.

[ QUOTE ]
Arcs that will likely get banned:

Any arc where you are beating up a minority only, whether it be lesbians, a certain race (gee..the devs violate that with both the Tsoo and the banished pantheon... go figure) or a certain social subgroup (Is neonazi-bashing just as bad as what the neonazis do? That's one of the reasons the fifth column got pulled in the first place.)

Arcs about certain politically taboo or hot subjects. (Hunting down Iraqi terrorists or employees of an abortion-legal clinic)

Arcs involving child abuse, sexual abuse, Misogyny (although apparently misandry is perfectly alright as evidenced by the carnival. I guess some genders are more equal than others)

Arcs involving, torture, [censored] (of any gender) necrophilia, or any deviant behavior or crimes more serious than a willingness to kill(In the abstract) and steal stuff.

Any arcs which, through storyline or even misinterpretation of available information, might hint at this sort of behavior.

so, when are the carnies(misandry), vahzilok(Torture), Tsoo(racial profiling), and banished pantheon(Racial and religious profiling) enemy groups getting removed from the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but when you combine all of the above...then you have art.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the "Lesbification" machines seemed over the top.

[/ QUOTE ]

This part alone makes me wish I'd had a chance to play it

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible it was more copyright infringement? after all there's the novel Monstrous Regiment about recruiting er... gender ambiguous soldiers... I do not think it probably violated that either, but maybe between the two issues they figured it came too close to two lines to be given benefit of doubt?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pratchett borrowed his title from a screed by John Knox from 1558, which makes it public domain and fair game for anybody.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

[ QUOTE ]
Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we supposed to say "I.C. Wut You did THAR?" Throwing your political view around that people shouldn't throw their political views around eh?

Is it really "throwing" when you can only pretty much find the arc in question by actively searching it out?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible it was more copyright infringement? after all there's the novel Monstrous Regiment about recruiting er... gender ambiguous soldiers... I do not think it probably violated that either, but maybe between the two issues they figured it came too close to two lines to be given benefit of doubt?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pratchett borrowed his title from a screed by John Knox from 1558, which makes it public domain and fair game for anybody.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was about to post the very same thing. THANK YOU.

Not to mention it's not like you can't describe things as a "monstrous regiment" just because someone titled a book "monstrous regiment."

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Post Deleted by Moderator_08

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, the original intent was not to evangelize for a political opinion, only to play with the forums theme of Lesbian Hellions. Politics only appeared on the scene when I was forced into explaining why this story was not in fact some kind of attempt to stir up hate for lesbians or anybody else.

I don't think that serious themes are off limits in MA, either. Tongue in cheek humor is more my shtick, but "Who is Kidnapping the World's Great Philosophers" has a serious as well as a funny side.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no humor in the sexual mindfield that is same sex unions,
to even try and do so is asking for you to be labled as a hater or a
simpithizer.

Lesbian hellions might be a bit of joke for some but heck this forum
go'er I never even heard of them till you brought them up a few
weeks before. I to was thinking at the time, that's a mind field that
begs to be reported.

course as a very anti same sexual orientation person, I did not wanting to
say anything for fear of it being taken the wrong way.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've written a short letter to the devs asking them to rethink their decision. I'd encourage other folks with concerns to do the same. However, I have some small problem. Who exactly should I sent it to? Do we know which dev-person is point on this issue?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would send it to Niviene. This is a customer service kind of issue, not a developer issue.

[/ QUOTE ]An issue that I think Nivienne would be willing, nay, eager, to comply on.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very disappointed that this arc was banned. I thought it was very clever and no more sexual than normal CoX content is violent. But of course, violence is OK and sex is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can thank the ESRB (in this case) for that distinction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.