Banned arc: clarification needed
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And then there is also Dominatrix. One only needs to read her bio and see the theme involved in her...NPCs...
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And in particular, the line in her background about how she serves her own grandfather in all capacities. Let that one soak in your brain for awhile. D:
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Kinda what I was getting at. Now, granted, that could be taken in a normal, non-hentai way, but really. Combine that with her gimp brigade and it's pretty dang blatant.
I don't think the problem is Lesbian Hellions.
I think the problem is the kidnapping, forced sexual conversion, and sexual exploitation. Reverse it - would it be okay if it was Male Heterosexual Hellions kidnapping female heroes for similar purposes? I don't think so.
If this was an arc about Lesbian Hellions robbing banks I don't think there would be an issue. Homosexuality and Transgender discrimination is wrong, NC Soft has supported this community in the past. I believe they will do so in the future.
I realize there is some writing in canon that skirts the edges, but it does just that... skirts the edges, it doesn't dance blatantly in a tutu.
Edit: IMO, a revision of these particular items, but not the lesbian theme, and it should be fine. If it isn't, then you have an argument.
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The Carnies, Domi and her crew... yes there are some 'adult' themes going on.
Do people petition the dev content? Apparently not, since it's not changed in 4-5 years. If it were that much of an outrage, I'd not expect to see it anymore, after all, they kicked out the 5th Column in favor of the Council.... surely Domi's followers/arcs are worse? Apparently not.
But players DO get petitioned. People have been petitioning each other's conduct since we were first allowed to log on. And now there's entire MISSIONS based around someone's hot button.
"OMG there's the word Lesbian in the title! PETITION!"
This is how shallow people get, they take things personally.
Shoot, we're the nation that got uber-upset over one of Janet Jackson's nipples, shown (IF that!) for a split second during a halftime show. How many of us have NEVER seen a nipple before? yet we act as if we needed brain bleach cos our eyes landed on it.
I say people need to relax a bit, and stop freaking out every time someone says or does anything remotely risque'. It's not that big a deal, really. Enjoy the arc, and if it DOES go into bad-for-FYOS territory, then tag it.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
From my understanding. When a arc is banned, it could be from the complaints and/or key words like "farm" in your case as many have mentioned "lesbian".
Once the arc gets banned, you should contact support to find out the exact extent of the ban, and if they will let you edit and to make it suitable for play.
Example, a while back my first arc was banned for copyright issues. I had been constantly editing in an attempt to keep it from getting banned. But eventually it happened. I contacted support to look into it, as I had been trying to keep it from breaking the copyright rules. Support cleared the mission to be unbanned.
I had to wait for a Senior Support Staff, ie Monday for someone to look and clear it.
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MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
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Like I said, I knew the story was not for everybody, and am not really surprised that some people complained. But if the Lesbian Hellions joke can go on for several months on these boards, I didn't figure that a story depicting Lesbian Hellions would be "inappropriate" in the MA.
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Heraclea, you're no fool. I've seen much of your work here and I played this arc. You HAD to know that there are numbskulls who play this game that subtlety is a curse word to. That arc was awesome (I 5-starred it on both my accounts) but I knew the Puritans among us would scream, moan, and gnash their teeth.
My only problem with "The New MA Order" is the lack of parameters. If they just came out and said "All arcs must be able to pass 1950s era censors", that would be one thing. But using nebulous definitions of 'farming' and 'inappropriate' isn't going to turn out well.
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In the brave new world of MA we're just supposed to INTUIT what's "right" based on undefined, general terms.
But just make "good" things and you won't have to worry about invisible tripwires. See how easy it is?
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I actually wondered whether the OP was trolling.
Kudos to the posters who managed to link CoX customer service to a massive left wing conspiracy working to strip away your rights.
Um... have many of the respondents here gone back to read the customer service response to Heraclea?
The arc was banned because the reviewer felt that the point of the arc was to defeat lesbians BECAUSE they were lesbian. Whether that was or was not an appropriate reading of the arc's intent, it's how it came across to someone who wasn't in on the joke. It had nothing to do with banning any arc that mentioned GLBT in any way, shape or form. From the customer sevice reviewer's standpoint, the arc was promoting anti-lesbian hate.
I'm sorry about Heraclea's arc, but I'm in full support of CS banning something for the reason stated. The appropriate response might be to follow-up with CS with some pointers to the forum joke to provide background, but I'd bet that it won't help much. People who aren't in on it before they hit the Play button are people who just aren't going to "get it" and there'll just be more complaints.
I went ahead and pulled "Monstrous Regiment of Lesbian Hellions" late tonight. It wasn't doing anybody any good in its current state, though I hope some day to be able to republish it. Like I've said before, at some point I am probably going to have to start cycling stories anyways.
The replacement tale is "Jerk Hackers!" - a serious moral fable where you learn of the grave consequences that follow when Jerk Hackers start duping rares and gold. Don't let them go to the Americans! You are of course invited to play it and let me know your thoughts.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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The Carnies, Domi and her crew... yes there are some 'adult' themes going on.
Do people petition the dev content? Apparently not, since it's not changed in 4-5 years.
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Actually, about 2 years ago I was aware of a rather massive group that DID petition such Dev content. No, I was not a part of them, but did get to read some of the replies C.S. sent back since I did know the yahoos.
Basically, Cryptic/NCSoft at the time pretty much shrugged it off.
So, I'm certain that it's not that the Dev content never gets petitioned, just that they aren't about to cave in.
A quick update on my letter effort. Niviene replied back to me, telling me I needed to make an in-game petition. I did that yesterday and this morning received an email from NCSoft saying that they would have a Senior Customer Support Representative look into my concern, but that it might take a bit because of the current volume of petitions.
I thanked them for their effort and addressed the concern that the arc was gay-bashing when in fact it was mocking gay-bashing.
Perhaps there is hope for a change of view.
VIRTUE: Ms Pris - 50 scrapper, Brai Master - 50 tank, Candi Pain - 50 scrapper
VICTORY: Little Bertha - 50 blaster
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There's a world of difference between supporting a civil rights movement and putting your profits on the line for a cause.
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What is funny is that NCSoft probably would not give a damn about the whole thing if servers were located in Japan or Korea ( where bdsm, fetichism, sexual orientation and stuff like that is usual business and openly talked about ). It only is a big deal because it is in America. It is pathetic.
Stupid americans teach their kids to handle a gun at 5 but you can be sure they would blindfold them before they get to see a nipple.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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... actually... I'd be much more comfortable with a 5-year old that knew what a gun could do, and how NOT to handle it, than one who had no clue at all other than "it looks like what Elmer Fudd used to shoot Daffy's duck bill off".
But, I see your point... and I don't think anyone has gotten killed or even seriously hurt by a nipple drive-by either. Interesting thought, there.
BUT, getting back to the point of the thread... any arc that brings up questions that Mom or Dad may not be comfy answering is PROBABLY going to earn itself a "Report Content"; if the kid doesn't press it... the parent might.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
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I know the joke and all, and I'm sad that this is the case in the US, but the political correctness militias won quite a while ago and continue to rule the country sadly.
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Looking in from the outside, I'm not so sure. Battle seems pretty heated as yet to me. But your right, decision making in the US re these issues has been pretty 'shoot from the hip' these last ten years.
Thing to remember is when people are loudly proclaiming or declaring stuff, it's because they haven't won yet.
The winners don't need to convince people.
The best bet when you are unsatisfied with any customer service issue (regardless of it being CoH or your cell phone service) is always to bump things up the chain. Lower level CS employees are pretty much obligated to be somewhat conservative in their decision making, whereas higher level employees have a bit more latitude in their choices.
Without playing your arc I cannot comment too deeply, but I can see reasoning behind pulling it (the heroes are engaged in battling against members of a minority group). You yourself noted when you published this story that you would not be surprised if the Customer Service department became involved at some point. I'd recommend pursuing the matter with them as ultimately they must make the decision in this matter.
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Customer service is exactly right. I would never publish an arc in which heroes beat up lesbians because they were lesbians. These, of course, were Lesbian Hellions, doing the sort of things other gangs in the city do - mostly kidnapping and recruiting.
And it turns out - if you got far enough into the story to get to the last mission - that the heroes who were "converted" by lesbian hellions ended up not minding all that much. This was one of the running gags in the story, telegraphed by one of the victims in the first missio as well.
FWIW, in my next story ("Cathedral of Mild Discomfort") a few reformed Lesbian Hellions appear during the jailbreak and sewer missions - as allies. If you read their descriptions, you will learn their ultimate fate, which is not too bad. Since they aren't enemies, if that story gets banned on account of their presence, some new rationale will need to be invented.
Right now, that arc has been pulled - I replaced it with "Jerk Hackers!" Here, you just get to beat up Americans. They do even more to deserve it. I will, one day, want to cycle Lesbian Hellions back in, and it was one of my most polished and well received stories.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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Post Deleted by Moderator_08
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Ah but that is THE thing, THE VERY thing that makes this America ( yes I'm aware we aren't the only ones "here").
You're definition and breadth of fun encompasses X things, while someone else's encompasses Y things that may or may not coincide with your X things.
Simply, you're fun is different than my fun is different than the moderator's fun.
I refer you to the awesome Neil Gaiman and a quote of his that fits this situation :
"Let me see if I can push you off the fence, a little. I'm afraid it's going to a long, and probably a bit rambly answer -- a credo, and how I arrived at that.
If you accept -- and I do -- that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
The Law is a huge blunt weapon that does not and will not make distinctions between what you find acceptable and what you don't. This is how the Law is made."
Politically correct that!
I don't much care for crossword puzzles, but I'm not going to say 'burn those crossword puzzles, never like'd em anyway' because there are people that DO like them AND they do not harm anyone in any legitimate sense of the word.
I hope the arc gets restored but that depends on if the person / people reviewing it are PC nazis or not unfortunately.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Post Deleted by Moderator_08
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Now, the original intent was not to evangelize for a political opinion, only to play with the forums theme of Lesbian Hellions. Politics only appeared on the scene when I was forced into explaining why this story was not in fact some kind of attempt to stir up hate for lesbians or anybody else.
I don't think that serious themes are off limits in MA, either. Tongue in cheek humor is more my shtick, but "Who is Kidnapping the World's Great Philosophers" has a serious as well as a funny side.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
I understand that, but the issue with any remotely hot real world topic like this, is that it's going to attract politically charged opinion, and beyond, really quick. It's a magnet for it. Not everyone will get the reference, and then you have a mess.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
Post deleted by Moderator 08
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
CoH has already shown itself to be a pretty gay-friendly game, simply including "lesbians" in an arc probably wasn't the problem. Someone just misread the story's intent.
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"Who is Kidnapping the World's Great Philosophers" has a serious as well as a funny side.
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IIRC, it has some Ayn Rand-bashing in it. Perhaps libertarians might try to have it banned?
VIRTUE: Ms Pris - 50 scrapper, Brai Master - 50 tank, Candi Pain - 50 scrapper
VICTORY: Little Bertha - 50 blaster
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FWIW, in my next story ("Cathedral of Mild Discomfort") a few reformed Lesbian Hellions appear during the jailbreak and sewer missions - as allies. If you read their descriptions, you will learn their ultimate fate, which is not too bad. Since they aren't enemies, if that story gets banned on account of their presence, some new rationale will need to be invented.
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Fantastic! I love that sort of tie-in! I'll be sure to give that a try!
And I, too, was one that loved your arc, but knew there was no way they'd let it stay as is. Too many people out there just waiting to complain about something. It gave them too much ammo, and sadly would be a lesser arc with the ammo removed (unless you can pull a rabbit out of your hat...love to see a revised version. You seem talented enough to have better ideas than I do ).
Dec out.
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And then there is also Dominatrix. One only needs to read her bio and see the theme involved in her...NPCs...
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And in particular, the line in her background about how she serves her own grandfather in all capacities. Let that one soak in your brain for awhile. D:
Heraclea, I'm sorry your arc got pulled and I'm glad I had a chance to run it before. I'm not terribly surprised, since it's easy to miss the joke, but still. I got it, and it made me chuckle (especially the lesbian agenda database, hahaha).
I'm just a holy fool, oh baby it's so cruel
Thessalia, by Darkchildx2k