You know, I would go there if it was enforced.
Restricted EULA, restricted entry, heavy moderation?
No leetards and farmers and people ooc?
Sold. Right now.
[ QUOTE ]
I was against, but not vocally against, farming.
That changed recently, when a friend of mine who does farm occasionally told me that in an eight man team, only himself and the mission leader had veteran badges of any stripe.
This means there are newbies that have never seen anything but the inside of an AE building and massive farm teams.
Two points:
I had a level 42 corruptor, a Radition Blast/Kinetics, in a mission ask me "What do u mean SB?" and "What's Fulcrum Shift?"
I had a level 50 Brute ask me what these enhancement things that were dropping actually did.
He didn't have Stamina, but he did have Flurry, Jump Kick, and the ENTIRE Presence power pool.
Previously these things were rare and hillarious, now they are common and sad... This is what farming brings to the game, any real player's frickin' nightmare. People who step out of the AE and grab a mission full of KoA and have no idea what to do to not die repeatedly.
It's not acting as a tool for experienced players to bypass content they've already played like the farming of the standard missions was. This is a travesty, not just an exploit.
[/ QUOTE ]
\
He'll either eventually get bored and quit for the next shiny or he'll eventually get beaten to death enough times to learn.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an avid roleplayer and soloer, but i find that generally the types who hit 50 and then do this sort of thing arent the type who'll listen to advice anyhow. Not to mention the fact that PuGs are awful anyhow and anyone insane enough to broadcast for a team is probably going to at best rack up insane debt.
And as for the crazy talk about katie hannon being ruined by hardcore farmers, lets be honest here. Unless you really have some insane want to run a gigantically large map filled with redcaps everywhere in an outdoor setting for a good 50 minutes to get your recipe or nowadays, merits, you have a far higher tolerance for fighting redcaps on an outdoor map than I do.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
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[ QUOTE ]
Exactly what is your complaint against farming and powergaming then.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aside from the fact that I think You're Doing It Wrong, I worry that the rest of us are going to suffer from what the Devs put in place to stop you. Because they have, and we have, in the past. So in that sense, it is about self-interest. I want you to stop pushing the game until it breaks and the Devs take something away from us to fix it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then you ought to voice to the devs your concerns and ask them to stop breaking your play to combat the farmers. Perhaps even ask them to better integrate farmers to channel them into play that yields what they are looking for but solves the root problem of whatever effect they are having that is being addressed. For example, a farm tab in MA/AE would pull the farm mission out of the normal listing. But place the blame where it belongs. The farmers haven't been taking away things from CoX.
That's the devs. If you don't like it, ask them to stop.
For Great Justice!
[ QUOTE ]
I think all this stuff comes from the culture of self-flagellation that Statesman and his team introduced and encouraged from day one. Those exp bars full of debt, those long hours/days/months spent leveling a /SS tanker, the (previously) long climb until Instant Healing (only to have it taken away) the horror of leveling a /SR at release.
Trying to solo with defenders and controllers early on. Gradually picking up how the game worked, getting better powers, then suffering through the extended series of nerfs. Discovering HOs, doing raid after raid, then having them nerfed. Being a teleport tank until you could manage perma Unstoppable, then watching it get nerfed.
The def penalty to /Inv. The purple patch. ED. One hero equals three minions. No more perma anything. The aggro cap. Etc., etc. etc.
I mention that all not to rehash the respective whinefests, but to illustrate how people who didn't like being punished for playing the game left long ago. Some of us have come back over time, but those that stuck around have perpetuated (in my humble and only partly serious view) the self flagellant culture that we now see screaming about farming and leveling too fast.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this states clearly something I have been seeing since day one. This is the only MMO in which I can play a hero - and the sights and sounds of combat can be glorious - so I also keep coming back.
But the "culture of self-flagellation" comment seems to hit it spot on. That's not the game I *really* want to play. I want to play the hero who kicks butt without ever having to suffer impossible odds, frequent death, anything that makes him feel less *super*.
After all, I can't stand Batman - but I love Doctor Strange and, Green Lantern, and the Flash.
For Great Justice!
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[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
How ironic that NCSoft puts out its new box, and related advertising, to pull in new players when the game they're being introduced to is a caricature of what it was meant to be.
Regular teaming is dead. In an hour in Virtue AP I saw one LFT that wasn't AE/Farm related, and I'm betting there were zero takers for that. Is this really what anyone wants new players to see?
"Here's this cool superhero MMO. What you do is you create a character, then you go into this building in the start zone and kick the crap out of one kind of enemy. Over and over and over again. Within a day or two you'll have a level 50 character. Warning: if you DO decide to play some real missions you'll find progression unbelievably slow in comparison, so you probably won't want to do that. If you do you'd better get used to soloing."
More importantly, will they stick around if their source of instant gratification is taken away from them? Will they stick around if it isn't?
[/ QUOTE ]
read that as..."oh! I stood around atlas for an hour! nobody asked me on broadcast to form a team.....even if I was running a lvl 45 scrapper"
Meanwhile in PI, teams are forming all over the place because they !GASP! put on their LFt flag and started forming a team instead of being a lazy [censored] and letting someone else do the work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Read as: I LIKE FARMING BECAUSE I CAN'T GET TO 50 IF I HAVE TO ACTUALLY EARN IT, SO DON'T TAKE MY TOY AWAY! WAAAAAH!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
How ironic that NCSoft puts out its new box, and related advertising, to pull in new players when the game they're being introduced to is a caricature of what it was meant to be.
Regular teaming is dead. In an hour in Virtue AP I saw one LFT that wasn't AE/Farm related, and I'm betting there were zero takers for that. Is this really what anyone wants new players to see?
"Here's this cool superhero MMO. What you do is you create a character, then you go into this building in the start zone and kick the crap out of one kind of enemy. Over and over and over again. Within a day or two you'll have a level 50 character. Warning: if you DO decide to play some real missions you'll find progression unbelievably slow in comparison, so you probably won't want to do that. If you do you'd better get used to soloing."
More importantly, will they stick around if their source of instant gratification is taken away from them? Will they stick around if it isn't?
[/ QUOTE ]
read that as..."oh! I stood around atlas for an hour! nobody asked me on broadcast to form a team.....even if I was running a lvl 45 scrapper"
Meanwhile in PI, teams are forming all over the place because they !GASP! put on their LFt flag and started forming a team instead of being a lazy [censored] and letting someone else do the work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Read as: I LIKE FARMING BECAUSE I CAN'T GET TO 50 IF I HAVE TO ACTUALLY EARN IT, SO DON'T TAKE MY TOY AWAY! WAAAAAH!
[/ QUOTE ]
Your contribution to this thread was invaluable, thank you for participating. 
For Great Justice!
So now the arguement has morphed into farmers are bad because they get content removed or nerfed....
And yet, the content that is removed or nerfed is done so because it is an outlier or exploit. WHICH is it people. Do you want exploits removed, or do you just want them set so only you can use them? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
You can't scream for comm officers to be nerfed, and then turn around and whine that content is being nerfed. They are only doing what you asked them to do. Every single mob that has been removed has been done so until an AE version is coded to minimize excessivly broken rewards. They aren't permenantly gone. As far as siphoning off players....well, I guess you need to find a better marketing strat. I don't hold them in a farm run against their will. They are there because they want to be. Maybe you should just admit that the majority don't like to play your style of gaming and you have no right to force them to.
I will say this. The content types in the zones are starting to become more and more like the rude farmers they complain about. I constantly have started recieving random tells and blind invites whenever I enter zones like Cim or GV....but I guess that is ok now, because you are the ones doing it.... 
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think how appalled the older bunch of supers are at the conduct of the younger ones in KINGDOM COME is a better analogy. Seeing that this game was, at some point, supposed to be about superheroes (and villains), not about who has the bigger stable of "50 toons." 
(And if you don't even know what KINGDOM COME is - though I think THE NEW FRONTIER is better - why are you playing this game?)
[/ QUOTE ]
I take it these are comics ?
If you are taking your moral lessons from what you see in comics all you have done is prove that jackass Dr. Wertham and the congressional investigations he provoked absolutely correct
[ QUOTE ]
You know, I would go there if it was enforced.
Restricted EULA, restricted entry, heavy moderation?
No leetards and farmers and people ooc?
Sold. Right now.
[/ QUOTE ]
It could be called Jonestown
[ QUOTE ]
It could be called Jonestown
[/ QUOTE ]
All those overly-emotive RP death scenes would be worse than community theater.
[ QUOTE ]
That's the devs. If you don't like [farming], ask them to stop.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
How ironic that NCSoft puts out its new box, and related advertising, to pull in new players when the game they're being introduced to is a caricature of what it was meant to be.
Regular teaming is dead. In an hour in Virtue AP I saw one LFT that wasn't AE/Farm related, and I'm betting there were zero takers for that. Is this really what anyone wants new players to see?
"Here's this cool superhero MMO. What you do is you create a character, then you go into this building in the start zone and kick the crap out of one kind of enemy. Over and over and over again. Within a day or two you'll have a level 50 character. Warning: if you DO decide to play some real missions you'll find progression unbelievably slow in comparison, so you probably won't want to do that. If you do you'd better get used to soloing."
More importantly, will they stick around if their source of instant gratification is taken away from them? Will they stick around if it isn't?
[/ QUOTE ]
read that as..."oh! I stood around atlas for an hour! nobody asked me on broadcast to form a team.....even if I was running a lvl 45 scrapper"
Meanwhile in PI, teams are forming all over the place because they !GASP! put on their LFt flag and started forming a team instead of being a lazy [censored] and letting someone else do the work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Read as: I LIKE FARMING BECAUSE I CAN'T GET TO 50 IF I HAVE TO ACTUALLY EARN IT, SO DON'T TAKE MY TOY AWAY! WAAAAAH!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if you are too lazy or stupid to form a team, what do you expect. All the time you see 10 people LFT LFT. two of them actually forming one would fix the whole problem. But that would take work.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
Your contribution to this thread was invaluable, thank you for participating.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're very welcome. I figure it like this: why should the pro-farming side of the aisle be the only ones with childish buttheads making their arguments? 
[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you are too lazy or stupid to form a team, what do you expect. All the time you see 10 people LFT LFT. two of them actually forming one would fix the whole problem. But that would take work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aheh. Yeah. I'm sure. Ignoring the part where the people I invite to the team I'm trying to form jump ship the femtosecond they find out we're not going to farm AE rubbish, obviously I'm just lazy and stupid.
Look... if this is the best you can do, please go back to the kiddie table and let the grown-ups talk, okay?
[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the point of this thread was for people who don't like farming to raise the issue, and for people who love farming to make fun of and dismiss the arguments of the people who dislike it. There's no debate here.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's the devs. If you don't like [farming], ask them to stop.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.
[/ QUOTE ]
See, thats the thing. They already KNOW about it.(devs)
Nothing new is being said in this thread anymore. Really, nothing new HAS been said.
The Devs know about everything thats going on in this game, and to think they dont is preposterous, ridiculous, bizarre, incredible, outrageous, shocking, impossible, extreme, crazy, excessive, absurd, foolish, ludicrous, extravagant, unthinkable, unreasonable, insane, irrational, monstrous, senseless, out of the question, laughable, exorbitant, nonsensical, risible, asinine, cockamamie
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your contribution to this thread was invaluable, thank you for participating.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're very welcome. I figure it like this: why should the pro-farming side of the aisle be the only ones with childish buttheads making their arguments?
[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you are too lazy or stupid to form a team, what do you expect. All the time you see 10 people LFT LFT. two of them actually forming one would fix the whole problem. But that would take work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aheh. Yeah. I'm sure. Ignoring the part where the people I invite to the team I'm trying to form jump ship the femtosecond they find out we're not going to farm AE rubbish, obviously I'm just lazy and stupid.
Look... if this is the best you can do, please go back to the kiddie table and let the grown-ups talk, okay?
[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the point of this thread was for people who don't like farming to raise the issue, and for people who love farming to make fun of and dismiss the arguments of the people who dislike it. There's no debate here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have worked 15 toons to 50 by doing content, forming teams and doing content. So I know what a load of BS you are pushing here.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
I have worked 15 toons to 50 by doing content, forming teams and doing content. So I know what a load of BS you are pushing here.
[/ QUOTE ]
One again, you call me names instead of respond to anything I'm actually say.
You're not worth my time, young man. Go back to the kiddie table and let the grownups talk.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have worked 15 toons to 50 by doing content, forming teams and doing content. So I know what a load of BS you are pushing here.
[/ QUOTE ]
One again, you call me names instead of respond to anything I'm actually say.
You're not worth my time, young man. Go back to the kiddie table and let the grownups talk.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seems more like he is calling your statements complete and utter garbage. Given that all your arguments seem to devolve to
"you should be able to get teams to do the content you want and if it means the removal of the content every one else enjoys so be it"
They are garbage.
In defense of farmers... I can understand why someone would want to skip the first 20 levels. The power progression in this game for many ATs is downright painful until you get into the 20s, in part because you need to waste 10 levels taking the Fitness and Travel pools and also in part because so many sets are built around some really good power that you don't get till 16-26 (which then don't become useful until you slot them).
But after that point, I can't even relate. My attempt to explain to AE farmers how much they are missing out on by effectively skipping the whole game falls on deaf ears.
I honestly could care less about why someone farms. To me it's BORING. I want to run missions with thought and variety written into them. And I hate the fact that it has become impossible to find a team that does anything else. It was bad enough doing the mind-numbing monotony of jumping between radio missions and then skipping all the side missions in the safeguard. Now the bar has been lowered even more.
Here's to hoping that I15 has better ways for players to sift through all the crap... and gives the devs a better way to sift through all the crap to stamp more dev choice awards on MAs with some creativity and balance put into them.
My honest suggestion to maybe help out us players who do not want to Farm... give the farmers an easy to access way to search for like minded players.
Make an LFT search window that filters out those who declare themselves as Farmers. Allow those who do not want to farm to refuse invites only from those who are. IOW, just legalize it. Accept that the problem is beyond control and let them go, but give them their own sandbox so that they quit bothering the rest of us.
But the original suggestion of removing AE from many zones will help a lot. Why they make us run all over creation for the University, but make the AE Farmhouse so accessible is beyond me.
What's really depressing is that I have lost all faith that the devs care about what we think. You all realize that we're only talking to ourselves right?
When is Champions coming out again?
--
My AE Story Arcs:
Family Matters - 82136
[ QUOTE ]
When is Champions coming out again?
[/ QUOTE ]
Be interesting to see how that works out. From friends in beta I hear Statesman has learned a few things.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have worked 15 toons to 50 by doing content, forming teams and doing content. So I know what a load of BS you are pushing here.
[/ QUOTE ]
One again, you call me names instead of respond to anything I'm actually say.
You're not worth my time, young man. Go back to the kiddie table and let the grownups talk.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didnt repond to your points because they are made up bs.
pot meet kettle, welcome to ignore.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's the devs. If you don't like [farming], ask them to stop.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.
[/ QUOTE ]
See, thats the thing. They already KNOW about it.(devs)
Nothing new is being said in this thread anymore. Really, nothing new HAS been said.
The Devs know about everything thats going on in this game, and to think they dont is preposterous, ridiculous, bizarre, incredible, outrageous, shocking, impossible, extreme, crazy, excessive, absurd, foolish, ludicrous, extravagant, unthinkable, unreasonable, insane, irrational, monstrous, senseless, out of the question, laughable, exorbitant, nonsensical, risible, asinine, cockamamie
[/ QUOTE ]
This thread must die. It is going NOWHERE, like the past 50 threads about the same crud.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's the devs. If you don't like [farming], ask them to stop.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.
[/ QUOTE ]
See, thats the thing. They already KNOW about it.(devs)
Nothing new is being said in this thread anymore. Really, nothing new HAS been said.
The Devs know about everything thats going on in this game, and to think they dont is preposterous, ridiculous, bizarre, incredible, outrageous, shocking, impossible, extreme, crazy, excessive, absurd, foolish, ludicrous, extravagant, unthinkable, unreasonable, insane, irrational, monstrous, senseless, out of the question, laughable, exorbitant, nonsensical, risible, asinine, cockamamie
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I think you may be overstating the case a bit 
But, yeah, obviously they are aware of it on some level. I do think that the volume of discussion does help to illustrate how many people feel strongly about it. It does sort of defeat the argument of 'everything's fine, nothing to see here, just shut up and play', which I'm not accusing you of supporting, but does seem to be one of the arguments out there against any further dev action.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's the devs. If you don't like [farming], ask them to stop.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that was exactly the point of this thread. Raising the issue to the devs and other players.
[/ QUOTE ]
See, thats the thing. They already KNOW about it.(devs)
Nothing new is being said in this thread anymore. Really, nothing new HAS been said.
The Devs know about everything thats going on in this game, and to think they dont is preposterous, ridiculous, bizarre, incredible, outrageous, shocking, impossible, extreme, crazy, excessive, absurd, foolish, ludicrous, extravagant, unthinkable, unreasonable, insane, irrational, monstrous, senseless, out of the question, laughable, exorbitant, nonsensical, risible, asinine, cockamamie
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I think you may be overstating the case a bit But, yeah, obviously they are aware of it on some level. I do think that the volume of discussion does help to illustrate how many people feel strongly about it. It does sort of defeat the argument of 'everything's fine, nothing to see here, just shut up and play', which I'm not accusing you of supporting, but does seem to be one of the arguments out there against any further dev action.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont farm or PL, never have. I dont have much time to play. A mission or two every few days, maybe enough time and want to do a TF/SF at some point doring a week, but thts it. All I will say is, I dont suport farming. The devs know whats going on, and they will fix it one way or another. This has been talked about for a VERY long time and they have made some progress with it.
But, this thread and every new one made everyday and the 50 before it since issue 14 and before issue 14 just goes in circles and ends up in flames. The devs know already and have known. This continuing of bickering and starting of new threads has become completely worthless now.
They know already darnit! Talking in circles in this thread and the others isnt doing anything to make the devs progress towards a resolution. But I know that me making complete sence isnt going to stop all the crap in this thread or the others, so be my guest, continue...
BTW, not flaming you ICF_Zombra
Farmers aren't the ones bringing this up constantly. The ones against gaining rewards in an efficient manner since they can't do it either are.
Or some "immersion" bs.
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe to you, but not to everybody.
Maybe if the farmers went into some channel and tried not to actively change the feel of the game for those of us who have been here longer and do have roleplaying, character IMMERSION and choose to play heroes and villians not grinders and farmers.
Sure, we're being inconsiderate. But the farmers are being inconsiderate too. Why should we have to go out of our way to ignore you when you don't go out of your way not to change the way we play the game?
Will I have the ability to /ignore or opt out of the way the market is going to be shattered when people making absurd amounts of tickets destroy it?
Will I be able to pretend the MA mobs or loot or tickets haven't been nerfed once they become so? Will I be able to ignore this wonderful contribution you've made to my gameplay, a game I haven't touched because it's so full of Farmers that only appeared once they had to invest no effort?
You guys aren't going out of your way to avoid bothering me, so when I come to the forums or speak to a dev on test or whatever, I will not go out of the way to avoid voicing my dissaproval and hoping that Posi's "harsh action" is so severe some of you cancel your accounts.
Want to know how farming damages this game? I know of three canceled accounts due to it, and I wont think of inviting any of my gamer friends to City until it is handled. That's 45 bucks a month they aren't seeing, plus potential new boxes and their fees.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personnaly i think at this point Devs should create a server where the purpose would be Experiencing Content, Roleplay, Immersion, etc...
Do not tell me Virtue is that server because it is not anymore and since a long time already. Immersion broken by players having stupid names, talking l33t like morons, broadcasting, farming and pling their [censored] like if the game would stop existing tomorrow.
The game could use a real clean server with restricted entry, a unique EULA and terms/agreement for its players and heavily moderated to keep it immersive.
You would be surprised how popular such a server could be and willing players would be at last free of all the disturbances created by farmers, plers, morons and what not.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire